On 04.11.2008, at 20:07, Mark H. wrote:
> Long answer: SISAL is an example of a functional parallel language
Ah, right, there was SISAL... unfortunately long forgotten.
> One could express solving linear systems (which is what I presume you
> mean by "matrix inversion," unless you really want
On 04.11.2008, at 19:08, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote:
> Suppose get, contains?, etc. were multimethods. I would not have
> needed
> gen-class. I just would register my own implementations for the
> lazy-map.
> But the problem is: Clojure's map interface is not implemented with
> multimethods. The
As was mentioned very briefly on IRC[1], it might be nice if defstruct
objects (a.k.a. struct-basis, a.k.a. PersistentStructMap$Def) were
callable.
Currently you can:
user=> (defstruct point :x :y)
#=(var user/point)
user=> (struct point 42 11)
{:x 42, :y 11}
You can also use struct-map instead
On Tuesday 04 November 2008 17:21, r wrote:
> ...
>
> OTOH, what is this incompatibility really about? If I include a GPL
> library and publish my code under CPL, the source code is still
> there, isn't it?
It's about how much control you retain over your own work once you
publish it. GPL has st
On Tuesday 04 November 2008 17:33, r wrote:
> ...
>
> I've just found the "GUI builder and Clojure" thread - it looks like
> CPL is fine with Qt Jambi due to explicit GPL exceptions. Still, if
> someone could explain me what this GPL/CPL incompatibility is about
> (in general case, without excepti
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:21 AM, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The (only GPL) library I'm interested in is Qt Jambi, currently
> distributed under a commercial license and GPL. I guess LGPL is way
> too liberal for Trolltech/Nokia.
I've just found the "GUI builder and Clojure" thread - it looks
On rev 1086:
user=> (meta `#^mmm sss)
{:tag user/mmm}
user=> (def obj '#^mmm sss)
#=(var user/obj)
user=> (meta obj)
{:tag mmm}
; Okay.. However, this is not what I'd expect:
user=> (meta '#^mmm sss)
nil
Seems like the metadata doesn't carry through the quote? (but for some
reason, does so
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I would turn it around and say - if there is something you want to
> combine with Clojure that is GPL why don't you ask them to make it
> LGPL instead, in which case there would be no problem? The problem
> lies with GPL.
Hello.
I came over to see what Clojure is all about and the first thing I see
is a license flame war. So I thought to myself, why not chime in?
You do know these licenses only hold in the litigious USA and some of
its subsidiaries? Even there, they're practically unenforceable. In
other places,
On Nov 4, 9:06 am, "Geoffrey Teale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you teach the general principles of Clojure then using any of them should
> be easy enough. As Graham said, it's better to stick with the out of the
> box GUI layer for a general purpose book. Qt Jambi was actually a little
>
Rich
I didn't see any reply to the suggestion to simply negate the choice
of law clause. That seems to be the *only* reason this thread (and
future threads like it) exist/will exist. I'm just saying it may not
be a hill worth dying for so to speak.
Chris
--~--~-~--~~~--
2008/11/4 Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I know people have built UIs with Netbean's Matisse, which is supposed
> to be very good, and wired them up with Clojure. IMO that's a
> promising approach.
I have quite a lot of experience with Swing/Qt so for once I can contribute
something informati
Actually I've just succeeded in doing that :) I'll post some instructions if
anybody wishes. It's straightforward enough. But still, the code that
Matisse generates is Java. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with
that. Maybe I'm biased because of my prior experience with GTK, Glade, and
L
Metadata (including type hints) are attached to symbols by the reader,
so I'm thinking something like:
(def a 1)
(def b 2)
(defn greatest-by
"Return the 'largest' argument, using compare-fn as a comparison function."
[compare-fn & args]
(reduce #(if (pos? (compare-fn %1 %2)) %1 %2) args)
On Nov 4, 10:01 am, Konrad Hinsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On the other hand, I am not sure that all important algorithms
> already have purely functional equivalents that are sufficiently
> efficient for real life. Is there an efficient purely functional
> algorithm for matrix inversion
On Nov 4, 1:22 pm, "Raoul Duke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi,
>
> > Though I don't know much about TMs, I will grant that I have not
> > actually seen such tools for TMs, so your argument probably still
> > holds, but I don't think it will hold forever.
>
> it is an interesting thing: the eco
Shouldn't this flame-bait thread stop now ? Guys, you're just annoying
people interested in getting things done!
Get a beer! And if you're an American, go out and vote!
- Akhilesh
On Nov 4, 10:40 pm, Matthias Benkard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 6:12 pm, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED
Hi,
I attached a patch, which addresses some issues I have with gen-class.
- gen-class does load a specifically named file instead of
requiring a namespace. This leads to an artificial splitting
of the sources. Furthermore setup of support has to be
repeated over and over again. (Once per
hi,
> Though I don't know much about TMs, I will grant that I have not
> actually seen such tools for TMs, so your argument probably still
> holds, but I don't think it will hold forever.
it is an interesting thing: the ecosystem of tools and things in the
crappy shared mutable state world is la
On Nov 4, 11:56 am, Justin Henzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My preference is that the book focuses on the default java stack.
>
+1
I know people have built UIs with Netbean's Matisse, which is supposed
to be very good, and wired them up with Clojure. IMO that's a
promising approach.
Rich
Hi,
Am 04.11.2008 um 16:06 schrieb Konrad Hinsen:
An example of where Clojure lacks OO features, in my opinion, is your
lazy-map library. It provides an additional implementation for an
existing interface, which is a typical OO approach, and a very useful
one. But although all your code is writt
On Nov 4, 2008, at 17:26, Mark H. wrote:
> Of course sometimes you need side effects in order to accomplish
> useful work, and a good FP language will provide abstractions that
> help you limit side effects and reason about them. Clojure does this
> by means of refs, agents, and transactional up
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Raoul Duke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, interactions with non-TX code and livelock (p.41)
>> strike me as potential problems.
>
> the scary thing to me about the change from a world of possible
> deadlock to a work of possible livelock is that
On Nov 4, 5:51 pm, Alec Berryman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I looked into writing an application in Clojure that 1) uses
> libraries licensed under the GPL with the classpath exception and 2) is
> licensed under the GPL itself. I concluded that 1 is OK, and that 2
> works, as long as you have a
> OOP doesn't have to do this, but a lot of OOP code does this.
i think that is a good point. there is not a single succinct
definition of OO when one looks at the various ways it has been
actually implemented in languages: Smalltalk is not the same thing as
Java. I think the ways in which they d
On Nov 4, 2008, at 18:18, Paul Stadig wrote:
> Is it possible to create "generic" macros? I mean macros are basically
> a way to extend the compiler, right? Wouldn't it be useful to be able
> to dispatch a macro based on the type hint of its parameters (or some
> other criteria)?
A macro gets it
> For the book would people rather see Swing or Qt Jambi examples?
I use Swing occasionally, and have never used Qt, but I'd vote for Qt
examples to see how it compares.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
On Nov 4, 6:12 pm, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The CPL doesn't allow me to choose the GPL.
>
> You've got this completely backwards - the GPL doesn't allow you to
> combine with certain things, whereas the CPL is fine with it.
I know that, but the fact is, the GPL has been widely
> On the other hand, interactions with non-TX code and livelock (p.41)
> strike me as potential problems.
the scary thing to me about the change from a world of possible
deadlock to a work of possible livelock is that the former is *really
easy to see* when it happens. :-)
--~--~-~--~---
My preference is that the book focuses on the default java stack.
I am hoping that the book can demonstrate the simplicity of developing
with clojure and avoiding additional configuration and downloading of
significant libraries and frameworks that might dilute that message.
That being said, I a
On Nov 4, 1:35 pm, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So far, you are only the third person to complain about lack of GPL
> compatibility.
For the sake of balance, I _am_ actually concerned about the CPL
because it effectively denies developers the freedom to be politically
unneutral.
Let'
On Nov 4, 6:11 pm, Matthias Benkard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Its free license is incompatible with Clojure's, though, so you'd need
> to buy a commercial license, right?
>
> Matthias
Oh, I'm wrong! That's nice. :)
http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/license-gpl-exceptions.html
Matthias
--~--~
I have a kind of random question that may not make any sense, but I'm
going to throw it out there.
Is it possible to create "generic" macros? I mean macros are basically
a way to extend the compiler, right? Wouldn't it be useful to be able
to dispatch a macro based on the type hint of its paramet
On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:37 AM, Matthias Benkard wrote:
>
> On Nov 4, 1:35 pm, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So far, you are only the third person to complain about lack of GPL
>> compatibility.
>
> For the sake of balance, I _am_ actually concerned about the CPL
> because it effectivel
On Nov 4, 4:26 pm, Chouser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One possible approach is with Qt Jambi. They have a nice GUI builder
> called "designer" that generates an xml file that can be loaded at
> runtime.
Its free license is incompatible with Clojure's, though, so you'd need
to buy a commercial
> > For the book would people rather see Swing or Qt Jambi examples?
>
I practice Qt Jambi is a much better UI layer than Swing, but then so is
SWT.
If you teach the general principles of Clojure then using any of them should
be easy enough. As Graham said, it's better to stick with the out of
Matthias Benkard on 2008-11-04 08:37:08 -0800:
> The CPL doesn't allow me to choose the GPL. Instead, it forces me to
> apply a CPL-compatible, GPL-like license -- a thing which may or may
> not currently exist, but which will certainly make my library useless
> to almost everybody because witho
> For the book would people rather see Swing or Qt Jambi examples?
I would rather see Swing. I have no experience of either, or opinion
on which is better but I would rather not have to download a 3rd party
library to follow the examples in the book (which I'm really looking
forward to!).
Graha
On Nov 3, 6:44 pm, cwyang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, I understand as follows:
> - OOP: keeping objects, which has states and methods.
> methods are encapuslated to the corresponding object.
> - FP: keeping objects(or structs or variables, whatever it is called)
> and functions o
2008/11/4 Stuart Halloway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> For the book would people rather see Swing or Qt Jambi examples?
Personally, Qt Jambi definitely. While Swing is the standard Java UI
library it pales in comparison to Qt and is still under-supported by Sun
IMO. But if Qt licensing issues put p
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Christian Vest Hansen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Nov 4, 9:00 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>> "Generally" by custom but not required by contract of the Com
It depends perhaps. From what Chouser has shown us, it can be really easy to
build GUIs with Qt Jambi. Maybe not as easy as with Glade and LibGlade, in
that you have to hook the signals to the slots manually it seems (correct me
please if I'm wrong). But still, very attractive.
There is of course
On Nov 4, 2008, at 15:20, mb wrote:
> And as an effect of not forcing the sorting logic into some class,
> one can easily sort the same data in different ways in the FP style.
> While implementing an interface Comparable defines *one* way
> of sorting, the FP style separates the functions from th
For the book would people rather see Swing or Qt Jambi examples? Or
something else? The book won't spend more than 10 of 250 pages on UI
stuff, so I'd rather do one reasonably interesting example than skim
several.
Stuart
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Rock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Rock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anyway, where I work, I've done a lot of programming in Python on
> Linux as well. I've used Glade and LibGlade extensively in this
> respect, and I've come to appreciate the ease with which one can put
> together a GUI applicati
Hi all :)
Coming from CL and Scheme, I never thought I'd see the day when a
superb language like Lisp could ever stand a chance at gaining a
larger acceptance, but Clojure looks like our best bet yet. What a
fantastic job Rich! I think you've just created the Lisp of the
future :)
Anyway, where
Thank you for your explanation! I don't think I fully understand your
point. But I'll try. :)
On 11월3일, 오후11시24분, Chouser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Chanwoo Yoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Below code is copied from 'On Lisp'. I just changed , to ~. But this
Thanks! Now I'm simply looking into *inferior lisp* buffer.
Strangely, still next code seems not working in slime...
(binding [*test-out* System/out]
(run-tests))
On 11월3일, 오후11시34분, Stuart Sierra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 11:20 pm, Chanwoo Yoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 9:00 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> "Generally" by custom but not required by contract of the Comparable
>> interface. And those are all Numbers, right?
>>
>> Comparable imposes natural
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2:56 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Mark H. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 3, 6:48 pm, Cosmin Stejerean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
On Tuesday 04 November 2008 06:03, Konrad Hinsen wrote:
> ...
>
> As an illustration of the two approaches, consider a program to sort
> data. In OOP, one would define an abstract class "comparable" with a
> method "sort" that works by calling methods such as "greater" and
> "equal" implemented in
I agree with the recent comments that a central place to find clojure
written libraries would be great and if it could tie in source code
viewing with syntax-highlighting/searching/cross-referencing (like
Daniel said) than even better!
Chris G
On Nov 4, 8:52 am, "Daniel Renfer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED
Hi,
On 4 Nov., 15:03, Konrad Hinsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As an illustration of the two approaches, consider a program to sort
> data. In OOP, one would define an abstract class "comparable" with a
> method "sort" that works by calling methods such as "greater" and
> "equal" implemen
On Nov 4, 9:00 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 4, 2:56 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Mark H. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm...
>
> Do you want:
>
> (max 1 2.1 4/5)
>
> to work?
>
> If so, you can't base it on Comparable, which generally only supports
> homogenous types.
>
> max, like >, is a numeric operation as it stands, for the above and
>
On Nov 4, 2008, at 3:44, cwyang wrote:
> So, I understand as follows:
> - OOP: keeping objects, which has states and methods.
>methods are encapuslated to the corresponding object.
> - FP: keeping objects(or structs or variables, whatever it is called)
> and functions on the objects
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Rich Hickey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2:56 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Mark H. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Nov 3, 6:48 pm, Cosmin Stejerean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
Once Clojure gets a decent CLJDoc-like tool, it would be cool to see
the uploaded code automatically be color-coded, documented, and
cross-referenced on the site.
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:07 AM, Paul Stadig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Maven is a bit heavy and obnoxious, but it does do a lot t
I just started reading through that article a couple days ago and a
couple things jumped out at me right away with respect to Clojure. The
most important, it seems, is that the STM system in Clojure is not the
concurrency hammer for the language, immutable data structures are.
All of the articles
I would be willing to help out with admin tasks also.
As for services, I think it would be a great idea to provide a few
ready-to-run packages to get users up and running quickly. Perhaps
Aquamacs/XEmacs/WinEmacs (to start) packaged with Swank, clojure.jar,
user-contribs, some example apps, docs
On Nov 4, 3:47 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Just reading through the first CACM article, they raise a number of
> issues that I think are more addressed in Clojure than they give
> credit to TMs in general based on whatever implementation they were
> investigating.
>
On Nov 4, 2:56 am, "Christian Vest Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Mark H. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 3, 6:48 pm, Cosmin Stejerean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I think clearly spelling out how objects of a type should be sorted is
> >> the poi
On Nov 4, 1:11 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 12:36 pm, Matthias Benkard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it's worth worrying about. The problem is, you're going to have
> > the danger of fragmenting the Clojure user base.
>
> I think Clojure has potential t
On the same line as these other comments it seems like the paper picks
on many problems that immutability and functional programming solve
for us. Being a recent viewer of many of the clojure screencasts it
now makes more sense how much emphasis is placed on these two items
instead of the actual S
Hi Peter,
don't know, but maybe you want to add additional classpaths for slime.
in emacs:
M-x customize-option RET swank-clojure-extra-classpaths RET
hth,
stephan
On Nov 3, 9:00 pm, Peter Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been trying to get clojure working with slime (on windows). I can
> Maven is a bit heavy and obnoxious, but it does do a lot to
> manage dependencies among versioned libraries, and there's already a
> lot of tool support for it, already a fairly-well-mirrored repo,
> already a URL naming convention for libraries that aren't in the main
> repo, etc.
Right, I did
cw,
I have been converting the examples from "Practical Common Lisp" into
Clojure. A big part of this is switching from imperative to functional
mindset. You might want to look at Chapters 3, 16, and 17.
http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/16/pcl-clojure
Cheers,
Stuart
>
> Hi all.
>
> F
Interesting stuff. If you follow through to the linked paper, it seems
to me that many of the issues are much less relevant for Clojure. In
particular, the sections about weak atomicity, privatization, and
memory reclamation (p.42) seem not to be a problem.
On the other hand, interactions w
The strings I'm working with are ISO formatted dates, and one of the
reasons many people like to use ISO formatted dates is that they sort
easily. However, the specifics of the situation are really irrelevant.
I just thought it might be seen as incongruent that Clojure has an
elegant collection s
Just reading through the first CACM article, they raise a number of
issues that I think are more addressed in Clojure than they give
credit to TMs in general based on whatever implementation they were
investigating.
I present my feeble attempt to join the TM debate:
> TM introduces a variety of
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