[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I got so busy the past couple weeks, I didn't get to chime in sooner :D I did speak at VCF SW over this past weekend, on this topic related to the first personal computer. I'm not the best of speakers, and it was limited to an hour discussion. Jay will hopefully have the video recording up bef

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Bill Degnan wrote: > Thanks Dave - It has been many years since I genned a N* disk. I don't > always have success with the port assigning but eventually I get it to work. Although my Altair was "fully expanded" when I first owned it, I was involved with it quite some time before that: At Univers

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 3:09 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Bill Degnan wrote: > > > Without looking through everything you have first (sorry)is the > > NorthStar DOS genned for a 2SIO card? > > Bill > > Most of the disk images I have in the Altair emulation are

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Bill Degnan wrote: > > Without looking through everything you have first (sorry)is the > NorthStar DOS genned for a 2SIO card? > Bill Most of the disk images I have in the Altair emulation are set up to communicate via my own homebuilt dual-serial card - There might be one set up for the ori

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 at 06:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > If you use > a computer that simultaneously is or can be used by other people via > multiple concurrent user sessions across whatever signal path, whatever the > setting, it is *not* "personal". I disagree. You are trying to make a

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 10:07 AM Dave Dunfield via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Having some fun reliving the memories ... I'll also mention that I do have > other emulators for some > of the classic systems I had on "Daves Old Computers" (look under "DOS > Widgets") > again - in case a

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Chuck Guzis wrote: > I never expanded my 8800 beyond the original 4-slot kit with > limp-wristed power supply. The construction (I built from the kit) I > found to be appalling. More than once I zinged myself brushing against > the line voltage traces on the front panel board. And that awful whi

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Having some fun reliving the memories ... I'll also mention that I do have other emulators for some of the classic systems I had on "Daves Old Computers" (look under "DOS Widgets") again - in case anyone wants to experience actually using one of these systems: NorthStar Horizon (Z80) - also does:

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 9:54 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Still have no idea what to do with > all that heavy iron--I haven't touched it in perhaps 40 years. I > congratulate you in finding homes for yours--I doubt that will happen > with mine. > > --Chuck eBay. Make some retirement cash.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/11/24 02:02, Dave Dunfield via cctalk wrote: > Chuck Guzis wrote: >> I find myself in the position of trying to figure >> out what the latest posts have to do with 'Experience using an Altair >> 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)'. > > Thanks! It's gotten so off-topic, I've all but stopped

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Chuck Guzis wrote: > I find myself in the position of trying to figure > out what the latest posts have to do with 'Experience using an Altair > 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)'. Thanks! It's gotten so off-topic, I've all but stopped following this thread. I recently found a new home for my

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> The LINC exhibited at VCF 10.0 was one of two systems the fine folks of the > Washington University team who originally designed and built the LINC > scraped together and got working in time for the Festival, and their > presentation therein. That system went with Bruce Damer to the DigiBarn >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 20:52, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Is it Artronix or Artronics, out of Plainfield, New Jersey (according to the label, formally TechArt Systems 2000)? Because if the latter, I have one right here, though I can't tell you the model number because it is not displaying one. The ser

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I believe the term was coined at PARC and was to distinguish between a time-sharing system and a computer which was “yours” when you put your disk pack on it and sat in the room where you were. Thus the Alto and Dorados were personal as they melded to their user, when being used by that user, an

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Please kill it. It's a marketing term, defined to suit the needs of the moment. Even if we ever define it to our satisfaction, nobody else will ever use that definition. On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 2:32 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Liebe Leser, after consigning most of this thread to the bit

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at 7:43 AM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > >> OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about > >> 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in > >> b

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liebe Leser, after consigning most of this thread to the bit bucket over the last week or more, I find myself in the position of trying to figure out what the latest posts have to do with 'Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)'. Indeed, it seems that much of the thread h

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 15:17, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk w

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was deve

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved t

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical C

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/7/24 10:29, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Still valid? Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the question: "What was the first PC?" http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was develo

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 3:31 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 11:01 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:39 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 11:01 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:39 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Still valid? > > > Personal Comput

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024, 12:39 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Still valid? > > Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the > > question: "What was th

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/07/2024 9:18 AM CDT Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > We can at least all agree that the Ford Mustang was not a "personal > computer", nor "Personal Computer", although almost any Personal Computer > could fit in the back seat or the trunk, but probably not in the glove > compartment.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:29 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Still valid? > Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the > question: "What was the first PC?" > http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml That's Doug Salot's old website circa 2000. He did an admirable job ba

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Wow! How truly interesting. Back then I guess one could call it a personal/micro-computer -Simon 1949. This was early digital age where mechanical devices ruled. Not my idea of a modern PC. Nonetheless, the quiz gives more information than what is found in books on the subject. Happy computing -

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Still valid? Personal Computer Milestones - Fun page that attempts to answer the question: "What was the first PC?" http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 11:24 AM Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 5:10 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > The opp

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 5:10 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > The opposite of > personal is multi-user. There is your dichotomy. It is either personal, > or multiuser, and never the twain shall meet, and neither anything betwixt. By that definition the TRS-80 Color Computer is not a persona

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 1:38 PM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > If you buy a bus and start driving it yourself everywhere, for your > own exclusive use, it doesn't somehow magically stop being a bus. It's > still a bus, just a bus being used for personal transport. I am not so sure... After all

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Before we do any more automotive analogies of the "personal computer" definitions, . . . Could somebody explain to me What is a "muscle car"? What is a "sports car" I have heard the Ford Mustang, which seems like a Foulcon with cosmetically redesigned body panels, referred to as each of those.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024, 6:19 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > Ok, now you're back to cost. Your criteria keep changing. You cannot > > give something meaning when the "something" keeps changing. This is why > > you are refuted. > > > > I refute you, sir! > > > > Sellam There's "personal

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> > > > > Ok, now you're back to cost. Your criteria keep changing. You cannot > give something meaning when the "something" keeps changing. This is why > you are refuted. > > I refute you, sir! > > > Sellam, There's "personal computing" as a verb and "personal computer" as an object classifica

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I refute your refutations thusly: On Thu, Jun 6, 2024, 5:38 AM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 at 05:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > > If you ride a bus, where multiple random people get > > on and off at various stops, it's not a "personal" conveyance. > > I refu

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 at 05:10, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > If you ride a bus, where multiple random people get > on and off at various stops, it's not a "personal" conveyance. I refute your argument thus: If you buy a bus and start driving it yourself everywhere, for your own exclusive us

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 3:25 PM Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > If a device is not a microcomputer, it then must be either a > minicomputer or a mainframe. Early on many mainframes didn't even > support interactive sessions so they more or less disqualified > themselves from being "personal" in

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

"Workstation"??!? Several decades ago, out department chairPERSON, who was a recent UC Berkeley PhD graduate, came running into the lab, shouting, "I think that we're getting SUN computers!" (we had a few dozen cheap PCs). She had heard from the loading dock that they had a couple of boxes la

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 at 13:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > that's an important distinction, affordability. You define personal > computers to contain microprocessors, which made them affordable. The > demand was always there, it's the point in the demand curve that allowed x% > of the populat

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

😀

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Come on by my warehouse, I'll hook you up to where you make Adrian look like a rank amateur ;) Sellam On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:12 AM brianb1224 via cctalk wrote: > If I had his digital basement I would never come out. >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:03 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > As someone once said "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and > they all stink." > > Josh Rice > Nothing but opinions and assholes around here ;) Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

If I had his digital basement I would never come out. 

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 05/06/2024 16:37, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: *snip* You mentioned that an Altair 8800 and even a subscription to Popular Electronics was too much for your 9 year old self, but the TRS-80 wasn't? Perhaps I misinterpreted. At any rate, it matters not: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERSONAL

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:25 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: > Sellam, > > Adrian Black of Adrian's Digital Basement has a series on the Plexus > machines ongoing at the moment. > > I'd highly suggest contacting him, as i'm sure he'd be very interested > in adding to his collection. > > Josh Rice

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 8:39 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > One simple question. > If this "discussion" bothers you so much, why do you continue to drag it > out? > > Thanks for making it all clear for me, though. > > Will > Perhaps you haven't noticed but I've actually been trying to end it f

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/05/2024 10:37 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 8:33 AM Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > no > > > On 06/05/2024 10:28 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > So, now we're adding the age of the buyer a

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 8:33 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > no > > > On 06/05/2024 10:28 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > So, now we're adding the age of the buyer as an element of what defines a > > "personal" computer? > > > > Sellam > > > > > > > No.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 11:30 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > What I have taken away from this whole now weeks-long debate is this: > > Everything is a personal computer; and nothing is. > > Sellam > Then there is the question of personnel computing. Is this compute

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

no > On 06/05/2024 10:28 AM CDT Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > So, now we're adding the age of the buyer as an element of what defines a > "personal" computer? > > Sellam > > > No. Not sure where I said that. But, no. Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tireso

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

What I have taken away from this whole now weeks-long debate is this: Everything is a personal computer; and nothing is. Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 6:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > When the Jan 75 issue of Popular Electronics came out I was 9 years old. > I didn't know the magazine existed, nor could I have afforded a > subscription if I did. But I knew what computers were, and I knew I wanted > one. But they w

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 5:30 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > > > > that's an important distinction, affordability. You define personal > computers to contain microprocessors, which made them affordable. The > dem

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 10:21 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 06/05/2024 8:33 AM CDT Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > So if a computer was built to be used by a single oper

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/05/2024 8:33 AM CDT Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > > So if a computer was built to be used by a single operator for general > purpose use, open to any application development but cost more than the > masses

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 6/5/2024 9:33 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > > > > > That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It means > > ordinary people. It

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It means > ordinary people. It means the masses. A personal computer is only > personal if the person in quest

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > that's an important distinction, affordability. You define personal computers to contain microprocessors, which made them affordable. The demand was always there, it's the point in the demand curve that allowed x% of the pop

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 at 14:32, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: > That's a terrible analogy. The first cars were indeed ludicrously > expensive and owned almost exclusively by the wealthy and upper classes. > It took a good 20 years for the car to become affordable to the masses, > in the shape of the

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Mon, 03 Jun 2024 12:00:08 -0500 cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote: > > It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause > > uncontrollable fits of laughter. > > You owe me a new keyboard (and another glass of milk). Even in death, his power remains ;)

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

>> I used 1620s, and 360/30s, a 360/40, and others as a personal >> computer at times, for things like writing a Tim Conway game of life, >> keeping track of my vinyl records, etc. > > It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause > uncontrollable fits of laughter. You owe me a n

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

From: CAREY SCHUG > I used 1620s, and 360/30s, a 360/40, and others as a personal > computer at times, for things like writing a Tim Conway game of life, > keeping track of my vinyl records, etc. It's like John Conway's "game of life," but more prone to cause uncontrollable fits of laughter.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liam Proven wrote: > Microprocessors are what created the PC. No µP = not a PC. So, if I get this right, the term "PC" to means something like the "personal computer" of today (children of IBM PC or Apple Macintosh) or at least perhaps something as old as an Apple II, a Commodore PET. Perhaps

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 01/06/2024 13:44, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: d they all functionally look a lot like the common home/personal computer of ~10 years later. I had some of those in mind -- I mentioned the IBM 5100 in passing. I don't think any qualify, no, myself. Only if one looks backwards from a world

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> With no expectation of changing the opinion of anyone who thinks they have > the definitive definition of ‘first’ or ‘personal’, I will just mention that: > > • the HP9830 (1972), > • Wang 2200 (1973), > • IBM 5100 (1975) > were all: > • single-user, > • d

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, 31 May 2024 at 18:57, Harald Arnesen via cctalk wrote: > > Liam Proven via cctalk [31/05/2024 18.07]: > > > My first fiancée's dad had what he reckoned was the first mainframe in > > Norway. > > Was it this: > > - in Norwegian, machine translation work ok. Thanks fo

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

It appears that one can determine what is a personal and/or a microcomputer that satisfies only the author. If one states that and believes it then that is all that’s necessary. I wrote a book based on this line of thinking and if a reader disagrees with me that is fine. I’m not declaring the true

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On 05/31/2024 8:11 PM CDT CAREY SCHUG via cctalk > wrote: > > Sorry, WRONG. > > --Carey > Why do I feel like I'm observing a first grade classroom where the boys are arguing about whose dad can beat up the others? Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for ch

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

It appears that I am in error. I see that micro-electronics or something similar can be used in a computer or computer-like device. If a non-uP machine accomplishes the same result then I bow to being corrected. I want/wish to learn new things. Happy computing, Murray 🙂 On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 8

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Sorry, WRONG. A computer type is "Personal" (capital P as a NAME for a class of computers) not based upon how ONE instance of it is used, but based upon the intent of its design and how many in practice. Musk could buy the lastest Frontier supercomputer and ONLY use it to play chess with himse

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I would accept a bit-slice. as I understand that, you take 8 of them and daisychain them to act on a byte of data. Many early minis used them afaik. --Carey > On 05/31/2024 7:29 PM CDT Brent Hilpert via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 2024May 31,, at 4:37 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk > wro

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 2024May 31,, at 4:37 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 6:02 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk > wrote: >> Liam Proven wrote: >>> It needs to have a microprocessor to qualify. >>> ... No µP = not a PC. >> >> Not entirely sure ... >> http://dunfield.classiccmp.org

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

I quite agree. I do believe that a *u*P is the minimum that can be accepted to call a PC a microcomputer. Another is that it must be usable, i.e., non-programmable, for the average PC owner. Like a car one doesn't need to know how it works in order to drive/use a car to get from one place to anothe

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liam Proven wrote: > It needs to have a microprocessor to qualify. > ... No µP = not a PC. Not entirely sure ... http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/primitiv Dave

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Liam Proven via cctalk [31/05/2024 18.07]: My first fiancée's dad had what he reckoned was the first mainframe in Norway. Was it this: - in Norwegian, machine translation work ok.

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Tue, 28 May 2024 at 22:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > We can never agree on the definition. The blind men are fixxated on > individual features of the elephant. You have a point. You usually do, Fred. I am surprised one thing hasn't been mentioned yet. Any computer can be "personal" i

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Tue, 28 May 2024, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: In 1971 or 1972 I was in the Washington DC airport executive lounge.  Dolly Parton was in there, she had two gofers getting her coffee and stuff, and she had a large "bag phone" that she was on a lot of the time, presumably making arrangements fo

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 5/28/2024 2:28 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 5/28/24 10:00, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: Au crontraire, I belive the first mobile phones were mostly purchased by corporations for their executives to use, if the executive left, the phone stayed with the corporation.  Early mobile pho

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On 5/28/24 10:00, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: Au crontraire, I belive the first mobile phones were mostly purchased by corporations for their executives to use, if the executive left, the phone stayed with the corporation. Early mobile phones were NOT personal devices. In 1971 or 1972 I was

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Au crontraire, I belive the first mobile phones were mostly purchased by corporations for their executives to use, if the executive left, the phone stayed with the corporation. Early mobile phones were NOT personal devices. Back to "who bought them" as a criteria. --Carey > On 05/28/2024 9:16

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Tue, May 28, 2024, 7:16 AM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > And that makes sense. Consider that cell phones have always clearly been > personal phones, but the first ones were definitely not priced for the > "average person", not by a long shot. > > paul > Are you comparing a teleph

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

> On May 28, 2024, at 9:56 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > I don't consider whether a computer is inexpensive enough for the average > person to use as a criteria for whether a computer could be considered by > nature a personal computer. And that makes sense. Consider that c

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 8:15 AM Dave Dunfield via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >With respect, I have studied the 1956 Royal McBee LGP-23 (and later -30) > at > >length and found one could easily use this computer as a "personal > >computer". > > I've not see one of these - that's a VER

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

>With respect, I have studied the 1956 Royal McBee LGP-23 (and later -30) at >length and found one could easily use this computer as a "personal >computer". I've not see one of these - that's a VERY early system! Sounds like it could have been used for "personal" computing - but was it common and

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Christian Corti via cctalk writes: > What is the difference between buss/buses(pl.) and bus/busses(pl.)? > I mean, you don't say omnibuss, do you? No difference -- they're variant spellings of the same word. From the examples given in the OED, it looks like "buss" was originally the more common

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

The Micral N was developed for process control as well. The only difference was that Comstar was purchased by Warmer Swasey and it was integrated to their systems so they never marketed their systems outside of that market. On Mon, May 27, 2024, 7:48 AM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk@classic

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, 24 May 2024, Bill Degnan wrote: With respect, I have studied the 1956 Royal McBee LGP-23 (and later -30) at What is an LGP-23? I know the LGP-21, the transistorised and slower successor of the LGP-30 which came out later. Christian

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Sat, 25 May 2024, Dave Dunfield wrote: First S100 buss system Originally called "Roberts Buss" the Atair expansion buss was used by many systems that followed, and not wanting to use their competitors name, the buss became known as "S100" (presumably System buss with 100 pins) As a non-nat

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, 24 May 2024, ??? wrote: There was a 4004 based computer developed in 1972 that was released before the Micral called the Comstar 4. It's not very well known but it was written about in the ACM and the Computer History Museum has a copy of their sales manual Interesting system. But it se

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, May 24, 2024, 5:48 PM Rich Alderson via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > And Sellam is simply wrong. > > Rich > You got your opinions, I got mine. And old Billy Boy has some skeletons in his closet. Perhaps literal

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Chuck Guzis wrote: > I don't think the "first" applies in this case. The MCM/70 used an 8008 On the subject of early 8008 designs - there was a Canadian one (1974 I think) the MIL (Microsystems International Limited) MOD-8 - later also released as the GNC-8 (Great Northern Computers) I also cr

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 11:30 PM Dave Dunfield via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Weill .. I certainly expected lots of "discussion" on these statements > about my Altair: > > I have never claimed to be an "unknown drip"(*) on details of computer > history, but here is my reasoning: > >

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Weill .. I certainly expected lots of "discussion" on these statements about my Altair: I have never claimed to be an "unknown drip"(*) on details of computer history, but here is my reasoning: > First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC) I am well aware of small systems that predated the Alta

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Gak, 4k ram but 100k via virtual memory TO CASSETTE? I want one just for that. LOL Was the cassette multi-track with one track containing timing marks, so records would not overlay each other? I guess I would argue the definition of a PERSONAL computer is if many or (preferably) nearly all o

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

First, Dave wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 15:53:53 -0400 > From: Dave Dunfield > I've just passed on my "Mits Altair 8800" - this is a very historic system > from the 70s - it is: > First system Bill Gates wrote code for (long before Microsoft) Which is on the face of it incorrect. Then Ch

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

There was a 4004 based computer developed in 1972 that was released before the Micral called the Comstar 4. It's not very well known but it was written about in the ACM and the Computer History Museum has a copy of their sales manual ACM article https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1499949.1499959

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

Besides nobody fully comprehending what "FIRST" really means, . . . "The Altair was just an obscure predecessor; the personal computer was invented by Steve Jobs!" :-) "How can you call it a 'Personal Computer' with no mouse or Windoze?" :-) On Fri, 24 May 2024, Don R wrote: Well the Xerox A

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