the reporting but does not appear to affect delivery. LauraSent from my iPhoneOn Apr 8, 2025, at 9:35 PM, Laura Atkins wrote:I’ve blogged about it and described a few instances where that triggered (I have evidence another situation that I’ve not written up, yet. https://wordtothewise.com/2025/03
itigates the risk of PII leakage to third parties if the domain generating
>> the report is redacting visible PII.
>>
>> Michael Hammer
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Ratliff
> Founder, FunnelTechie
> www.funneltechie.com
> <https://www.funneltechie.com/>
idn’t see any requirement that reports be generated or consumed. But, there
is some need for folks to know when their domains are being used in DKIM
signatures for mail not originating from their servers and in a situation where
they are not going to get DMARC reports about it. The obvious one here is
e risk of PII exposure, those few providers that still do
> send failure reports heavily redact them, which in my view makes them all but
> useless for either purpose for which they were originally designed. They
> cannot be used for proper troubleshooting of failed authentication of
> On 6 Mar 2025, at 16:39, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>
> On 06/03/2025 14:44, Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> On 6 Mar 2025, at 12:45, Seth Blank
>>> wrote:
>>> On 05/03/2025 03:34, Douglas Foster wrote:
>>>> But it is an IETF problem because IETF is a
including this one, decided to rewrite the from address rather than
reject users behind a p=reject.
laura
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s to DKIM2 but regular mailing
list mail or non-bulk mail stays at DKIM as it is now. I’m not sure there’s any
downside to that.
laura
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to know who wrote
> the message, and to not have to waste brain cycles on guessing an
> un-munge.
>
> So the charter should permit the WG to work on the "mutations" thing.
+1
laura
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ur when the working group has completed chartering and is active.
>
> -MSK
> ___
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> To unsubscribe send an email to ietf-dkim-le...@ietf.org
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>>> message and cannot be held responsible for any damage arising from the use
>>> of e-mail. Any opinion and other statement contained in this message and
>>> any attachment are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
>>> represent Related Digital.
>
SNs pass them by unless they mangle
> headers and that creates other issues). So if the charter mentions
> these then a DKIMbis will most likely not be suitable
I agree this isn’t a DKIMbis, but a new protocol that has some similarities
with DKIM but also new features and points that make
ng proper SPF and whatnot than a lot of legitimate hosts...
>
> I agree.
>
>> They are much more motivated to get their messages across.
>
> Sure.
>
> But how much of their spam is sent from their servers vs sent through other
> compromised accounts / servers?
Qu
inuxmagic
> A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca
> "LinuxMagic" a Reg. TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd.
>
> 604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada
> _
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so the
overall % of spam has gone down.
If anyone has better data, I’m all for it. But I did dig into this a while back
and that was the conclusion I’d come to.
laura
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Delivery
oks sends from
their own domain, it’s all DMARC passing mail.
>> Another example of this aberrant view is the insistence on misusing the word
>> 'spoofing'.
>
> As the antonym of "legit"?
Right. So an invoice from my company coming from @paypal.com or
.ietf.org/YGynIPpYS7yqg5G7ZeSQeA
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bron.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd
> br...@fastmailteam.com <mailto:br...@fastmailteam.com>
>
>
> ___
> Ietf-dkim mailin
g this domain or IP, on that note never with
> any of my domains or IPs.
>
What’s the full block message you’re receiving from Google?
laura
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a service
that doesn’t support it. So it might not be rspamd that’s the problem here, but
rather your instance of postfix isn’t handling ESMTP correctly.
laura
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lk sending platforms give the wrong information for the
includes (although they’ve gotten a lot better about it).
> By comparison, setting up DKIM is anywhere from hard to impossible.
Our experiences are wildly different.
laura
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seen it and would be able to answer your questions.
laura
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ht
ID=614866> to contact
support.
The “here” takes you to https://olcsupport.office.com/.
That’s where you open a ticket, not anywhere else. You may need to be logged
into a Microsoft account to get to that page.
laura
—
The Delivery Expert
Laura
SMTP>> QUIT
> SMTP(close)>>
>
>
>
> I''ve double checked that the EHLO works with the SPF (in the redacted log,
> IP 555.555.555.555 matches maildomain.net's SPF):
>
> <81XFvZGqU4hDuONl.png>
>
> That is why I find this so we
; Ultreia Comunicaciones, S.L.
>
> _______
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__
need to start thinking differently about how email filtering works because
the folks who design the filters are doing a lot more than the simple stuff
that so many folks claim.
laura
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la...@wordtothewis
error. I guess Outlook has to receive mail from the IP
> before it can be registered with JMRP? I guess being proactive doesn't
> really mean a lot.
That sounds like it is registered but it’s not sending mail so they have no
data a
nd never desire a thing you do not expect."
> -- Bob Proctor
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ing. These kinds of indirect
corporate mail flows seem to be an increasing problem - I saw another report
of the same issue. I’m interested in hearing what the practical and
implementable solutions are here. I brought it up on one forum and the only
suggestion I got was to “add th
yes. I’ve reported there. Repeatedly. I was looking for a contact that might be
able to help.
Laura
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 6, 2024, at 4:11 PM, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
>
> Am 06.05.2024 um 15:56:31 Uhr schrieb Laura Atkins:
>
>> 205.183.255.162
>
>
> On 6 May 2024, at 13:35, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
>
> Am 06.05.2024 um 12:59:46 Uhr schrieb Laura Atkins via mailop:
>
>> Looking for an abuse contact there or at messagereach.
>
> T-Mobile is a name used by many (sub)companies.
> Can you specify the IP addr
T-Mobile for Business
> On 6 May 2024, at 12:59, Laura Atkins via mailop wrote:
>
> Looking for an abuse contact there or at messagereach.
>
> laura
>
> --
> The Delivery Expert
>
> Laura Atkins
> Word to the Wise
> la...@wordtothewise.com
>
Looking for an abuse contact there or at messagereach.
laura
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decide if this is wanted mail or not. This can cause a
“drop” in opens without any change in actual delivery.
Your experience is different and does suggest there is some change in delivery.
But, if nothing else has changed that should resolve itself with a bit of
warmup.
laura
>
> Best,
&
l in the spam folder).
If it’s simply prefetch behavior, there’s nothing you can do. Google gonna
Google.
laura
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do you think you're submitting stuff to spamhaus?
>
> They do not accept third party samples and never have.
They are now. https://submit.spamhaus.org/
laura
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Delivery h
3 DMARC reports for that sender / IP combo.
So that’s one bit of evidence that even if the message is not accepted, DMARC
reports are sent.
laura
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Delivery hints and comme
ust take extra precaution to warm the IPs ( and
> domains, and click-track URLs, and and and ..). Understand you're going to
> have garbage neighbors (if you don't bring your own ranges), and understand
> the implications of that.
Exactly.
laura
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L
rom their generic naming conventions will help you.
>
> Or avoid Sendgrid entirely.
>
> --
> Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
> Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
> 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
>
> ___
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> mailop@mailop.org
> ht
ion.
> Do many current sites require an IP's reputation to be established gradually?
> (particularly Google) Would it just greylist deliveries for a few hours, or
> fail worse than that?
>
> The new host will be doing deliveries directly, not using SES.
That is, IMO, a v
y bad actors to send SPF / DKIM / DMARC passing
email and b) wrapping up an email and forwarding it through an untrusted source
means authentication can be trivially forged, and c) trust indicators don’t
actually work.
In the face of those facts, what value does this bring to email?
laura
nd user from this scheme?
laura
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uld
> accidentially host something illegal, the proxy owner will take the blow for
> the content visible via "his website".
>
> Best regards, Sebastian Nielsen
>
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.
>>> Those never get to see the content of a spam folder.
>>
>> Google heavily discourages POP, to the extent it throws up security warnings
>> if you try and enable it. They´re pretty clear they don´t want their
>> customers using it, so why would they go out
o be feedback loops, per se, as they didn't and don't tell
> you which specific messages were judged to be spam by a recipient or other
> entity.
It’s been a while since I’ve looked at SNDS, but I don’t believe they provide a
complaint percentage. What I remember is they provide a % of mai
cked their Spam folder, we just leave them in the
> Inbox.
>
> Yes, I do see my share of Spam this way, but I also do see the Spam if I have
> to check the Spam folder regularly…
Different audiences have different needs. Not all providers are going to meet
the needs of all sen
on of my outbound IPs daily and
> be proactive in remedying any issues with these major email service
> providers, rather than have to be told by my clients that something is amiss.
> And then battle through a 2 week waiting period for the provider to reply
> back or hope that someone
generally focused on domain reputation and ensuring domain alignment.
laura
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2 different results using two different parsers. I believed the one
that passed (ie, I believed it was validly signed by the responsible domain).
Laura
> In any event, as I've said at least three times now, RSA keys are fine for
> the forseeable future so there is
> On 1 Dec 2023, at 13:22, U.Mutlu wrote:
>
> Laura Atkins wrote on 12/01/23 13:22:
> > None of this will make a company who doesn’t want to deal with abuse
> > complaints deal with abuse complaints. It’s a total waste of resources.
>
> Then RIPE has to sanction tha
ttitude the internet wouldn't exist. Sounds like the "Seat belts
> don't work" fraction back in the day.
>
> But I'll shut up now and focus on more constructive discussions elsewhere.
>
> Best
> Serge
>
>
> On 01.12.23 13:22, Laura Atkins wro
our subscription options, please visit:
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
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> On 30 Nov 2023, at 12:38, Leo Vegoda wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 13:16, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>>
>> On Thu 30/Nov/2023 12:40:46 +0100 Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> What happens if / when someone doesn’t?
>>
>> A minimal, yet useful reaction wo
21). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation
>>> and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial
>>> Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the
>>> Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, a
nt.
>> (Thanks for your prompt reply.)
>> Postmaster - postmas...@inter-corporate.com
>> Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com
>> Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
>> Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
>> https:/
On 16 Nov 2023, at 19:57, Jay Hennigan via mailop wrote:
>
> On 11/16/23 02:54, Laura Atkins via mailop wrote:
>> The New York Times
>> Laura
>
> Can you be more specific? Link to an article?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=cloudflare+doxx
https://letmegooglethat.co
Did you follow the links and do what they told you to do? How long have you waited for a response?LauraSent from my iPhoneOn Nov 16, 2023, at 11:35 AM, Polath, Kiran via mailop wrote:
Hello Team,
We at Broadridge Financial Solutions sends millions of email as financial customer communicat
The New York Times
Laura
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:19 AM, Marco wrote:
>
> Am 16.11.2023 schrieb Laura Atkins via mailop :
>
>> They protect a whole lot worse than phishing sites and have doxxed
>> people who complain about abuse.
>
> Is
They protect a whole lot worse than phishing sites and have doxxed
people who complain about abuse.
laura
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s discussing changing
the algorithm or adding another algorithm.
I am not clear on how changing the algorithm addresses the DKIM replay problem.
Can you explain to us how this will address the issue the group is currently
chartered to address?
laura (participating)
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Lau
door.
>>>
>>> R's,
>>> John
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim
>>>
>>
&
iVzMouQ1sY/
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this gmail.com <http://gmail.com/> directly or google hosted domains?
laura
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>
>> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc7cedc63ed1d1d78e45272?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nLiDvwE1FDvAnv56cZf8gHOlGcXNTPUHN-wE0IIEJbWkBqUZ5n-wh878kG0mKc-TDyIo6EwBskR6pg3M12nuwEx_9G03qmurLHy8H_IjsK3cg==>
>>
>>
>> <https://cloud
/www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> __
> On 1 Sep 2023, at 18:31, Grant Taylor
> wrote:
>
> On 9/1/23 3:32 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
>> You don’t know that they don’t do spamfiltering on outbound messages. You
>> don’t see what they catch and don’t send. What you do see is when that spam
>> filterin
ith that
>> in mind.
>
> I still think that it's hypocritical to have zero spam filtering on outbound
> email while having any spam filtering on inbound email.
laura (participating)
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round; good reputation to spot good actors.
>
> Much like a brand new domain is effectively neutral immediately after it's
> created. Said domain earns a reputation either good or bad over time.
In reality “new” domains are actually treated more negatively than neutral in
many
spectrum transmission
> style...)
My understanding is that one of the primary ways to ID a replay is using Google
postmaster tools and seeing increases in their graphs without a corresponding
increase in volume from their systems.
laura
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emory lane for all the spammers that sued
ISPs to try and get them to deliver the mail. I’d forgotten e360 sued Comcast,
though.
laura
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Delivery hints and
> On 21 Aug 2023, at 10:08, Laurent S. via mailop wrote:
>
>
> On 21.08.23 10:26, Laura Atkins via mailop wrote:
>
>> This recommendation doesn’t make sense. For companies that actually
>> reject due to SPF, they’re most likely going to do it after MAIL FRO
ho
do I can’t imagine they want to see the full content of the message before just
throwing it away. That seems wasteful.
laura
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_
> On 16 Aug 2023, at 12:59, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>
> On Wed 16/Aug/2023 11:17:50 +0200 Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> On 16 Aug 2023, at 09:57, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>>> How about enacting common sense rules such as Never sign anything without
>>> readi
> On 16 Aug 2023, at 09:57, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>
> On Tue 15/Aug/2023 14:59:18 +0200 Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> On 15 Aug 2023, at 12:36, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>>> On Tue 15/Aug/2023 08:10:23 +0200 Bron Gondwana wrote:
>>
>>>> "Probl
onclusion. But,
again, for whatever reason it wasn’t something that was anticipated to be a big
problem.
> Kinder, simpler days.
Very much so.
laura (participating)
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Delivery hints and co
> On 15 Aug 2023, at 17:32, Jim Fenton wrote:
>
> On 15 Aug 2023, at 5:59, Laura Atkins wrote:
>
>> But the reality is: bad-actors are going to get through every process. If we
>> could ID spammers up front and stop them from spamming we’d very likely have
>>
eputation of the
victim domain results in better mail delivery for the attacker than using
domains they own or control.
There might be a plact, too, to describe the effects on the victims. Sender
victims have mail they wouldn’t normally allow out in volume impact their
reputati
> On 9 Aug 2023, at 15:55, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 2:54 AM Laura Atkins <mailto:la...@wordtothewise.com>> wrote:
>> If there are multiple BCCs that implies that whatever is creating the mail
>> must make individual copies of
f heavy lifting to be done to make sure that the
individual recipient only sees a copy of the message with their address in the
BCC header.
If there are multiple BCCs that implies that whatever is creating the mail must
make individual copies of the message with only the BCC r
> On 6 Aug 2023, at 19:07, Jesse Thompson wrote:
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> On 5 Aug 2023, at 02:43, Jesse Thompson >> <mailto:z...@fastmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, at 11:08 AM, Laura
> On 5 Aug 2023, at 02:43, Jesse Thompson wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, at 11:08 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
>> I agree with this and have been working to recruit folks to come here. I’ll
>> also be in Brooklyn and pitching the need for participation in the IETF
>>
k, and I'll be
> interested to see what results from that.
I agree with this and have been working to recruit folks to come here. I’ll
also be in Brooklyn and pitching the need for participation in the IETF working
group from folks in the email space who are seeing issues with this.
laura
the spec focus on the spec vs. how much does it discuss all the
examples and data about why we got to this as the spec. I think that the why,
condensed down in a supporting document, is valuable. I think, though, that as
part of the spec it’s a distraction.
laura (participating)
--
The De
said, this'll be my last opinion on that point, as I don't think
> it's worth a great deal of debate and I'm happy to accept whatever
> consensus we wind up with. Better to spend the effort on the
> solution.
>
> Barry
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 1:30
a
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ired either. Business to business email can
> function without any of them.
This is bad advice.
B2B email requires a MX (like, if you don’t have an MX do you even email?)
In order for mail to be accepted at Google Workspace you must have either SPF
or DKIM.
t the domain info itself does not say that.
>
> I know that whois is a lost cause, and I still believe that methods for
> identifying the real controlling entities of domains would help quite a bit
> in reducing unwanted e-mail spam.
>
> Cheers,
> Hans-Martin
>
> _
ying a
new solution to forwarding. These are major hurdles to adoption, so they should
really be addressed as part of the protocol development stage.
laura
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ng up domains for
not-email I recommend both as they address the issue from different directions.
It’s also perfectly legit for a domain to receive email while never sending
email. I have domains set up to receive client mail, for instance. They never
send mail, they’re collection addresses.
lau
; Thanks,
>
> Stephen
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Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtoth
anged SPF recently (after changing ISP), while DKIM signing remained the
> same. I attach the message.
>
> Best
> Ale
> --
> 2023.eml>___
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> On 19 Apr 2023, at 14:20, John Levine wrote:
>
> It appears that Jesse Thompson said:
>> -=-=-=-=-=-
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023, at 8:37 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> Should the IETF make the interoperability recommendation that SaaS
>>> p
> On 17 Apr 2023, at 14:15, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 4:29:45 AM EDT Laura Atkins wrote:
>> Reading through the various discussions about how to document the harm DMARC
>> causes for general purpose domains, I started thinking.One way that a
> On 17 Apr 2023, at 14:01, Dotzero wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 4:30 AM Laura Atkins <mailto:la...@wordtothewise.com>> wrote:
>> Reading through the various discussions about how to document the harm DMARC
>> causes for general purpose domain
gt;
>> > I was wondering if anyone else experienced similar issues on Apr 06 with
>> > missing data on SNDS or a high number of IPs getting blocked?
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
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>> > mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>
>> > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>>
>>
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Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog
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random domain. I keep ending up this isn’t an interoperability issue, it’s just
an end run around DMARC and it’s not the IETF’s place to comment on that.
But I thought I’d bring the discussion up here to see if other folks had
different opinions.
laura
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Laura Atkins
On Apr 15, 2023, at 4:25 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
> On Friday, April 14, 2023 10:31:33 PM EDT Jesse Thompson wrote:
>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2023, at 7:17 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
>>> The Sender's users being denied the ability to participate in a list due
>>> to its policies seems to me li
On Apr 14, 2023, at 8:37 PM, Dotzero wrote:On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 2:00 PM Laura Atkins <la...@wordtothewise.com> wrote:On 14 Apr 2023, at 18:38, Alessandro Vesely <ves...@tana.it> wrote:On Wed 12/Apr/2023 13:41:16 +0200 Laura Atkins wrote:On 12 Apr 2023, at 12:21, Do
> On 14 Apr 2023, at 18:38, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>
> On Wed 12/Apr/2023 13:41:16 +0200 Laura Atkins wrote:
>>> On 12 Apr 2023, at 12:21, Douglas Foster
>>> wrote:
>>> Any form of security creates inconvenience.
>> Yes. And we make tradeoffs b
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