[9fans] first questions from a lurker

easy on the Plan 9 newbie who has to unlearn 30+ years of Unix habits. Thanks! Arnold

Re: [9fans] first questions from a lurker

And of course, I forgot another question: 4. How to do the moral equivalent of shutdown -h now? Thanks, Arnold - arn...@skeeve.com wrote: > Hello All. > > I've been a lurker on 9fans for many years. Today I finally did an > install - +9atom.iso.bz2 into

Re: [9fans] first questions from a lurker

Pardon my not replying individually - thanks all of you for the answers! I'm looking forward to climbing this learning curve. :-) Arnold

[9fans] 9atom ISO images?

Hi. What is the status of the 9atom ISO images? I have a laptop that I think is too old to boot from USB that perhaps I can put Plan 9 on... Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] [GSOC] fast kernel compile

ox on Linux, Solaris, *BSD. There is a lot of value to that, when what you care about is getting your work done (KTBR - Keep The Business Running). I well understand that this community is less concerned about that, but this community should also be open minded enough to understand those kinds of concerns. Arnold

Re: [9fans] [GSOC] fast kernel compile

Charles Forsyth wrote: > On 6 May 2014 09:38, wrote: > > > I think that "unaccountably" is a bit harsh. > > > I was talking about kernels and kernel mechanisms. Fair enough then. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] unicode 7.0.0 support

chett: "We're on a mission from Glod." :-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] troff documentation link broken

al formatter was nroff for printers and teletypes. Troff came along later, at which point .ul was already in use in people's documents and/or macro packages. HTH, Arnold

Re: [9fans] Announcing The Virtual Plan 9 Server Cookbook

Hi. This looks wonderful. Is it available in a PDF or more paper oriented format, for us old fogeys? Thanks, Arnold "David L. Craig" wrote: > This is the publication I wished I had had several > months ago, so I decided to write it. With hundreds > of screen shots and a

Re: [9fans] silly question

omting I could not in the plan9 distribution? > > -Steve I'd be happy to know the results of attempting a gawk port via APE. :-) Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] silly question

sion is 4.1.1. Although this one would do for Steve who wanted time functions. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] silly question

"Steve Simon" wrote: > > I'd be happy to know the results of attempting a gawk port via APE. :-) > > Not sure Al, Peter, or Brian would forgive me :-) > Though if memory serves it has been done already. > > -Steve Brian is a good friend of mine. He (at least) wouldn't mind. :-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] glendix

; I looked at the git and the last check-in was over 5 years ago. It's aim is to run Plan 9 binaries, which means putting P9 system calls into the Linux kernel. p9p is a port of the P9 utilities to *nix; userland only. HTH, Arnold

[9fans] [Off topic] Raspberry Pi 2 gets the evil OS

>From the "Be Still My Beating Heart" department: http://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/raspberrypi2support

[9fans] whence kenc for linux?

Hi. Where's the right place to find kenc for Linux? Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] ken cc for linux

quirrelled off into the 9fans mailbox by accident. Thanks! Arnold

[9fans] using git

py to continue a discussion with you offline, if you wish. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] using git

ve. That's all I really have to say about it. I'll go crawl back under my rock now. Arnold

Re: [9fans] using git

r most people to just use Linux as a bridge. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] Ports tree for Plan 9

does one get the source? Is it intended to run on *nix also? It'd be nice to have since it's always fun to compare multiple implementations when trying to figure out a corner case. Besides BWK's awk, there is mawk, BusyBox awk, and the MKS awk as found in the various OpenSolaris derivatives. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] Ports tree for Plan 9

ny fixes to BWK's code since then. If you're going to start over, it should be done from his current code, available from his Princeton home page. Arnold

Re: [9fans] Ports tree for Plan 9

sion of BWK's awk, for their POSIX awk. Quite some time ago I ported it to Linux; it took an hour or so. It'd take more work to make it generally portable, which I never bothered to do. Arnold

Re: [9fans] Gawk in 9front-ports

examples. I hope this helps. Please feel to contact me off-list if you need more info / help. Thanks! Arnold

Re: [9fans] Gawk in 9front-ports

spect, some of these are just bloat and I'd have been better off without them. Arnold

Re: [9fans] Gawk in 9front-ports

to Plan 9 easier, if they're reasonable. HTH, Arnold Hugo Rivera wrote: > Let me understand. Are you going to modify the current gawk version > according to your needs (perhaps removing some of the bloat you > mention)? or are you going to port gawk as it is? > > 2015-07-08

[9fans] Intel NUCs and Plan 9?

st, small form factor boxes to run Plan 9 would be welcome, preferably with links (:-). Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] Intel NUCs and Plan 9?

Raspberry pi isn't what I want. I want to be able to compile / do serious development and being able to run Linux would also help. I'm not comfortable moving outside of Intel architecture and I want the horsepower I can get out of a Haswell or Broadwell. Thanks, Arnold Shingo Onob

[9fans] origins of configure

tart over today, one could likely arrive at a simpler system, but portability problems remain, and they are real. Arnold erik quanstrom wrote: > confirmed. it's existence is due to early gnu programs fighting with > small variations in unix and compilers. byron's rc used a small s

Re: [9fans] origins of configure

always 20/20". That's all I'll say on the topic. Arnold tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: > On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 09:24:57AM -0600, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: > > So, the history is more than this. > > > > Larry Wall's Configure (capital C) for rn and Perl was

Re: [9fans] Replacement for find

Is there a C level equivalent of the BSD fts(3) suite of routines? Or even the System V ftw / GLIBC nftw suite? I suspect that having this would save some wheel-reinvention in these kinds of programs. Thanks, Arnold erik quanstrom wrote: > On Wed Sep 30 01:12:36 PDT 2015, charles.f

Re: [9fans] off topic - a good Git reference

Jeff Sickel wrote: > And then if you want all the fancy tools & wrappers groups seem to like > these days: Git is best used from the command line. All the tools just get in the way. The libgit work is probably the way to go for Plan 9. Arnold

Re: [9fans] Compiling ken-cc on Linux

ch poorer. On Linux you can't use it for debugging either - it doesn't generate the debug info you need. :-( For that, GCC and clang are the way to go. I agree with the general sentiments - GLIBC and GCC are both bloated. But for the day-to-day work that *I* do, they're livable. My two cents, Arnold

Re: [9fans] Musings on Interfaces

Steve was borrowing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL : C. A. R. Hoare remarked: "Here is a language so far ahead of its time that it was not only an improvement on its predecessors but also on nearly all its successors." (This one is also mostly true. :

[9fans] x86 alternative to rPi

FYI folks. http://betanews.com/2016/09/22/solidrun-x86-braswell-microsom-linux-windows-10-raspberry-pi/ Arnold

[9fans] Yet Another small form factor Intel platform

https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intel-unveils-intel-compute-card-credit-card-sized-compute-platform/

[9fans] RPI faq in words of one syllable?

Plan 9 and set it up as a standalone system. Etc. Thanks! Arnold

Re: [9fans] RPI faq in words of one syllable?

an re-create it easily enough, but not for a > week or two due to insanity at $WORK. > > --lyndon Hi. There is certainly no hurry. I would greatly appreciate it if you can find your notes or reproduce them; I suspect that I'm not the only one. MUCH thanks! Arnold

Re: [9fans] updating awk ...

Thanks for the info. I may pull the iso to take a look. In any case, for those using BWK's awk, it's worth pulling in the latest set of changes, they're not huge. Thanks, Arnold hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > spew is a 9front user who wanted to improve awk. >

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 C compiler for RISC-V by Richard Miller

o bring up and install to use an an additional compiler for testing a Free Software project. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] sources down

> possible to regenerate the original files with a bit of scripting. > > -- > David du Colombier How does that work if lines were deleted? Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] sources down

d it from the "old" one, and said script says "delete lines N through M", how does one recover the lines that were deleted? (With context or unified diffs, the deleted text is there.) Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] sources down

s are always reconstructed forward, > starting from the complete original file. OK, then it makes sense then. Much thanks! Arnold

Re: [9fans] Rc port.

> https://github.com/benavento/rc > > Have fun. > ???- > Federico G. Benavento > benave...@gmail.com On Ubuntu 18.04, doing make, I get errors on several files. See attached. Thanks, Arnold ERRS Description: Binary data

[9fans] strange propogation paths in 9fans mail?

Hi. Is this happening for anyone else? Relatively recently, it's happened that I see the replies before the originals, with delays in between of *days*. This has happened in the past with 9fans, but not recently, and now it's started again... Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] printing from Plan 9

Modern HP printers are very easy to handle. They sit on the network and Linux can find them automatically. HP provides excellent LInux support for their printers. CUPS isn't fun but it's not rocket science; once you get it going it's generally set and forget. My 2 cents,

Re: [9fans] plan9port on osx

o the group. I reported something directly to Russ a few days ago, but didn't hear back... Thanks, Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Teef4e32e6f6c10de-M6921d1a2c1823562acebfbf0 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

Re: [9fans] 9legacy usb kb/mouse?

without ps/2 kb/mouse attached. > > Some motherboards (I don't know about Dell) have a special setting > to enable different mouse protocols at boot time. Look for > something like "usb legacy support". I have also seen this affect USB keyboards (on Linux). Enabling it hel

Re: [9fans] looking for an old program

; > https://orib.dev/tmp/schem.tgz Thanks Ori and Aksr who answered. I've pulled down a copy. Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T77d844ca40469192-M3de9cf34ac858fb71780e0f4 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

Re: [9fans] APL

e I'm > specifically interested in. Maybe it's tucked away in the > bitsaver archives ... Have you checked the TUHS archives? V7 source is there, it should be all of it... Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9f

Re: [9fans] APL

ax. You'd have to port it to current architectures, and compiling TeX would probably make TeX run more slowly than the C version. The Berkeley Pascals were some of the compilers used for "Software Tools in Pascal". Arnold -- 9fans: 9f

Re: [9fans] APL

ink the Pascal compiler used the PCC back end, but I no longer remember for sure. If so, you might could hook it up to the revived PCC project. Although it sounds like a fun project, there are probably better uses for your time. :-) Arnold -- 9fans: 9

Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?

pilers. I have often wanted to add kenc into the mix, but haven't found a usable, standalone version thereof.) Thanks, Arnold ron minnich wrote: > Nxm built kencen toolchain on Linux. > > https://github.com/rminnich/NxM > > We could build all of plan9 on Linux. You might be

Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?

ld(1). I'd think that getting the ABI and generation of ELF (or of standard Linux assembly language) correct would be the hard part. What am I missing? Thanks, Arnold Russ Cox wrote: > Hi Arnold, > > The hard part is not so much the compiling but the linking against > system li

Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?

OK - wasn't kenc ported to Linux for bootstrapping the early Go compilers? Is that version general, or not worth my trying to use? Thanks, Arnold Charles Forsyth wrote: > > > > I doubt very much that using the Plan 9 C compilers will bring much > > additional benefit f

Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?

Russ Cox wrote: > Standard C has moved on, and the Plan 9 C compilers have not kept up. > They're still fine for Plan 9 C code, but given the choice > I wouldn't throw anything else at them. That's pretty definitive. Thanks. Arnold ---

Re: [9fans] Transfer of Plan 9 to the Plan 9 Foundation

the MIT license. There should not be a need to involve Nokia any further. My two cents. And apologies - I don't mean to start a long discussion about licensing. I'd rather let P9F worry about it (and throw a few $$ at them to help). I suggest we all do the same. :-) Arnold ---

Re: [9fans] Transfer of Plan 9 to the Plan 9 Foundation

Nobody is disgruntled (that we know about). The code under discussion in Richard Miller's contributed bcm kernel. Arnold Jeremy Jackins wrote: > Seems to me that there is always going to be some non-zero risk of lawsuits > when making a change like this, but clearly the fou

Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib

ves (see tuhs.org). I suspect that the Heirloom Troff versions could also be made to work. HTH, Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T2e70e97724f65028-M46ff38b6dae4038e6646cb33 Delivery options: https://9fans.top

Re: [9fans] v9fs vs mmap (not quite SOLVED)

to use mmap. Um, nm(1) on the binary to see what it calls? Just a thought... :-) Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tb065f4df67a8bab9-Mbfab54f8bfadab46ceee71b5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

Re: [9fans] v9fs vs mmap (not quite SOLVED)

d and stripped, then yes, you're out of luck. Try it. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. It won't be the first time. :-) Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tb065f4df67a8bab9-M149789ec7553d42e1fba4eff Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

Re: [9fans] void*

7;t complain because any pointer type can be passed to a void* parameter. Otherwise you'd need to cast: memmove((uchar*) s, (uchar*) & s[1], 4 * sizeof(struct foo)); void* has been standard practice (even on Plan 9) for 30+ years. It's not worth changing it now. :-) HTH,

[9fans] kencc for 64 bit intel linux?

Hi All. A little off topic, apologies. Is there a version of kencc somewhere that can be easily built and installed on Linux and used as a plain C compiler? I'd prefer for x86_64 but I'll take one that only compiles 32 bit. Thanks, Arnold --

Re: [9fans] kencc for 64 bit intel linux?

Thanks, I will check it out. Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > Is there a version of kencc somewhere that can be easily built > > and installed on Linux and used as a plain C compiler? > > > > I'd prefer for x86_64 but I'll take one that only compiles 32 bit. > > https://github.com

Re: [9fans] programs from UNI*x

I'd love to know if gawk can be made to work on Plan 9. Latest release is at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gawk/ Or you can clone the git repo. Thanks, Arnold Conor Williams wrote: > hello there 9fans.ers > > anyone need any UniX programs transferred (port.ed) to Plan9 > >

Re: [9fans] programs from UNI*x

Jacob Moody wrote: > On 6/28/23 10:09, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: > > I'd love to know if gawk can be made to work on Plan 9. > > Latest release is at https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gawk/ > > > > Or you can clone the git repo. > > > > Thanks, > > >

Re: [9fans] programs from UNI*x

Conor Williams wrote: > well Arnold?, 1. is the LINE pre processor directive supported by p9 > and also i2s _*that*_ function declared properly (&+3 is that definitely > the source that compiled > properly on SM. Windows et. Al?) I completely don't understand this. No nee

Re: [9fans] troll paper

Charles Forsyth wrote: > > And, if I hear about it being > > “declarative” as a virtue, I point to the 81,000+ lines (and > > growing) of YAML, that I defy any one human to comprehend. > > > You might find help in culang.org DNS can't seem to find t

Re: [9fans] troll paper

Taj Khattra wrote: > > > You might find help in culang.org > > > > DNS can't seem to find that for me > > https://cuelang.org/ Much thanks! Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.co

Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9.

"B. Atticus Grobe" wrote: > As for companies that use 9, Coraid (Brantley Coile) was invested in 9 for > their network storage systems, although it's possible their newer products > don't utilize it. They still do. See h

Re: [9fans] Where can I find active Plan 9 communities for support and collaboration?

r heard of it. It might > have helped. It's ~ 10 years old. Is it still relevant? Or do you plan to update it? Thanks, Arnold -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9804faa2e50a80d8-Mcd1c3f432933c6476cb5b9f6 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Go (Was: GNU/Linux/Plan 9 disto)

Does Go use things that are bison-specific? If not, maybe Berkeley Yacc (there are various versions around) would be easier to port. Arnold

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Go (Was: GNU/Linux/Plan 9 disto)

If it's bison -y -d then maybe even Plan 9 Yacc would work. The bison dist has a manual, probably even with an index, in which you can look up suspicious constructs and decide if they can be safely tossed or not. Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] Fortran growing in absolute number of users

n exercize in > regressing at moore's law speeds. > > - erik I thought it was an interesting tidbit that HPC people are going back to Fortran from C++. Ron, care to comment? Erik, maybe dig out the V7 ratfor and bring it into the 21st century for Plan 9? (:-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] awk reading?

I have to toot my own horn a bit: http://www.gnu.org/software/gawk/manual/ The manual is careful to distinguish standard awk from gnu awk features. If someone is up to porting gawk 4.0 to Plan 9, I'd be interested to help! Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] awk reading?

> Mr. Robbins' book is a gold mine--and here I must say thanks, sir > for both the outstanding documentation and the indispensable code! Thanks. I've worked at it, hard, for many years. :-) I also recommend TAPL. It's a great book. Arnold

Re: [9fans] du vs. ls: duplication or not?

l there. Hmmm. I bet ls can print the number of blocks instead of or in addition to the size. So maybe I'm wrong after all. :-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] Config File parsing

O'Reilly's "lex & yacc" is somewhat more user-friendly a reference than the dragon book, although the latter certainly has its value. :-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] nix at lsub

of using those files from inferno, and remote systems. > > But, as I said, I don't have a single line of code yet for all of this. It sounds like interesting work! Good luck! Arnold

Re: [9fans] nix at lsub

allenging and interesting, and also save you an *enormous* amount of work in having to write the same set of GUI interfaces three times (X11, windows, Mac OS). In other words, the GUI part is already a laregly solved problem; build upon it instead of reinventing it. Just an idea. :-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] nix at lsub

all possible. > > ++L Good point. Unfortunately, until Plan 9 grows a C++ compiler, Qt isn't an option for it. If/when that does happen, it would be a worthwhile thing to have there (In My Humble Opinion, of course :-). Arnold

[9fans] how up to date are the PDF doc files on plan9.bell-labs.com?

Hi. Do the postscript / PDF files available from http://plan9.bell-labs.com reflect the current state of the system? I'm curious about both the reference manual and the various files from /sys/doc. Thanks! Arnold

Re: [9fans] how up to date are the PDF doc files on plan9.bell-labs.com?

Thanks Erik. Is it hard to produce a tar ball of .ps or .pdf files from current troff input? Thanks, Arnold

Re: [9fans] formatting the manual from plan9 ports?

hing*. mount/bind and private > > namespaces. > > while this is all true, and i agree with you, the problem at hand it > to get things formatted on linux. Right. The problem is that Linux already has a /sys directory. Who knows what would break if I mount over that. Thanks, Arnold

[9fans] apparently nice summary of small linux pcs

http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview Arnold

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

suspect that they stick to stuff that will work across Baash versions though. Arnold

Re: [9fans] stripping down the kernel for an small embedded systems?

Thanks Charles and Erik for both your answers. I have pointed my colleague to the online archive. Arnold

[9fans] a cute small Intel cube

Hi All. This might make an interesting 9box: http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/13/intels-core-i3-nuc-mini-boards-set-to-hit-mket-in-october-po/ Arnold

Re: [9fans] a cute small Intel cube

Calvin Morrison wrote: > > http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/14/intels-core-i3-nuc-mini-system-bares-it-all-for-idf-hands-on-v/ > > but why not stick an i5 or i7 in there? heat dissipation in the small > form factor? Price is undoubtely a factor too.

Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop

r again instead of moving forward. This may be part of what Rob had in mind in his 2000 paper about systems reearch being dead. And it may just be part of the human condition. :-( Arnold

Re: [9fans] caveat... optimizer? the `zero and forget' thread on HN

in horror. :-) Having lived through the Unix wars of the late 80s and early 90s, I think that overall standards are a good thing. It just seems that more recently the comittees keep adding stuff in order to justify their continued existence, instead of solving real problems. Arnold

Re: [9fans] sleep(2) historical question

ble and (b) let user space figure it out. Classic separation of mechanism from policy. At least, that what it looks like to me. :-) Arnold

Re: [9fans] ape/errno.h

n't be too much different (we hope! :-). HTH, Arnold

Re: [9fans] ape/errno.h

ccounts to keep the IEEE lawyers happy. If you're happy with HTML: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/ (Google for "POSIX 2008 base definitions"). HTH, Arnold

[9fans] off topic: lego runs linux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAQ3g-iW-Ow

Re: [9fans] Ancient History: "Electronic Mail Without Aliases"

ve to be: Small Is Beautiful Arnold

[9fans] doing a native awk port (was Re: Bug in print(2) g verb)

ch is availble on github: git clone git://github.com/onetrueawk/awk And also talk to Erik who did some work on bringing the Plan 9 awk into sync with BWK's a little while back. HTH, Arnold P.S. The git repo includes his test suite in the file awktest.a; it should probably be unarc

Re: [9fans] Acme button 1 working like button 3

o matter how obsessive a coder you are, > you can get even less sleep and not code a wink. > > - erik And be in an even more elevated state of happiness. Arnold

Re: [9fans] [GSOC 2013] Implement plan9 commands in Go, Goblin

on and test suites. Is there even a yacc equivalent from Go? That might be a reasonable project - add Go support to Berkely Yacc, Plan 9 Yacc, or Bison. Or larger in scale, to implement Yacc itself in Go. Arnold

Re: [9fans] test(1) -older bug?

Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > And the consequences of not freeing a few bytes of memory, in a command > which will exit a few microseconds later, would be ... ? The Code Correctness Police come and collect you and force you to program on Windows... :-) Arnold

[9fans] is lsub web server up?

Hi. I tried to get the 9pix paper but am getting connection refused sorts of errors from http://lsub.org. Thanks, Arnold

  1   2   >