Re: Macintosh Keyboard/Mouse mappings

[Jonathan Morton]

>I would like to access an XVnc server on a UNIX machine from a 
>Macintosh (either Mac OS 9 or X).  I am using VNC Viewer PPC under 
>Mac OS 9.1 and I have overcome the dead-key issue by using a 
>modified Macintosh keyboard layout, but still I have two problems:
>
>(1) I would like MacX-style key bindings e.g.,
>
>pressing Control Shift '-' should give Control-'_' not Control-'-'
>pressing Option Shift '5' should give Meta-'%' not Meta-'5'
>and so on
>
>(2) I would like my button presses on my multi-button mouse to get 
>passed as mouse clicks.
>
>I have tried to overcome (1) by lots of individual entries in the 
>key mappings but there seems to be a low limit on the number of 
>entries allowed, and it feels like a horrible kludge.
>
>For (2) I tried setting the mouse (using Microsoft's Intellipoint 
>software) to send Command-2 and Command-3 for middle and right 
>clicks, but for some reason, these don't get recognized by VNC 
>Viewer.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas?

You could try using Dair Grant's VNCThing instead - it's rather more 
up to date and less of a kludge.  I'm not sure if it handles 
precisely what you're looking for, but there's a good chance it does 
- give it a try.

http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/
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Re: Disabling client computer's modifier keys

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm new to VNC. Is it possible with key mapping to disable a VNC client
>computer's modifier keys? If I'm controlling a Mac with a Mac and try to use
>a Command-char, Option-char, or Option-char combo, it will issue the command
>to the VNC Server running on the local client, not to the host. Timbuktu
>automatically disables all modifier keys on the client when controlling,
>regardless of whether one is using window or full screen mode. Maybe I'm
>missing something but I find this a bit of a handicap. Same goes for web
>based control, although I'm sure it would be well nigh impossible to disable
>a browser's mod keys.

Just a link:  http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/
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Re: Stable VNC Server for Mac OS 9.x? (was Clipboard...)

[Jonathan Morton]

>I just started up with VNC a few days ago. I've tried AT&T's VNCServer for
>Mac PPC 3.3.3b2 and ChromiVNC Server FAT 3.4.0a5 for Mac and they're both
>buggy as hell. Both implementations freeze the host Mac frequently. I've
>tried increasing memory allocation. I'm concurrently running Timbuktu 5.2.4
>on the 3 Macs I've tested. Could this be causing a conflict in the TCP/IP
>port range of 5000+? Is there a robust, stable Mac VNC Server out there --
>one that will live happily in a Mac OS 9.x environment?

I've not heard of ChromiVNC being unstable recently - in fact I find 
it pretty hard to crash on my own systems (MacOS 8.1 through 9.1). 
First, make sure you installed the latest vncPatches, replacing the 
AT&T version.

Is there something you can identify that usually causes instability? 
Also, try disabling Timbuktu using the Extensions Manager and see if 
the problem goes away - if it does, talk to Timbuktu.

The AT&T server *is* unstable.  No bones about it.
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Re: Disabling client computer's modifier keys

[Jonathan Morton]

>I installed VNCThing and tried it. Same problem. The checkbox in Options,
>"Release Modifiers", doesn't seem to do anything. For example, if I'm in the
>Finder and issue Command-N (new folder), VNCThing's New Session window pops
>up on my client Mac. Am I unclear on the concept? Timbuktu makes it so
>simple!

You need to use "No local Command key".

>Furthermore, it takes 4 quick mouse clicks (not two) to open a folder or
>launch a file or program from its Desktop icon. Do I have to look at another
>Mac VNC Server other than ChromiVNC Server FAT?

That's a tricky one.  The Finder seems to handle mouse clicks in a 
different way to most other applications, so it's hard to get rapid 
clicks to register as such.  Try clicking once and using Command-O to 
open it instead.  While I'm on the subject, dragging Finder icons 
(and many other items) doesn't work properly yet, unless you install 
Adrian's vncPatches substitute.

*marks the TODO list appropriately*
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Re: Stable VNC Server for Mac OS 9.x? (was Clipboard...)

[Jonathan Morton]

>Last couple days, I've encountered less crashing/freezing of ChromiVNC
>server (OS 9.1) and more of this: a sudden disconnect and inablility to
>reconnect with server. When I physically go to the server, I find that the
>Mac's mouse click has not been released. Clicking on the server's mouse
>restores everything to full functionality. Appears to be some sort of mouse
>click timing problem.

Sounds like you've run into the Drag Manager problem.  See the notes 
on my website on what to do about it (hint: vncPatches68k).  I'm 
trying to find time to work on integrating the fix.
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Re: Stable VNC Server for Mac OS 9.x?

[Jonathan Morton]

>I forgot to mention that the mouse-down release problem described below goes
>away as soon as I quit ChromiVNC Server FAT. No need to reboot.  - RCS

How about when you disconnect the client?  The server shouldn't be 
doing anything with the mouse when there isn't any client connected. 
It also shouldn't do anything to it when no mouse events are coming 
from the client, but the client connected/disconnected case is 
important to narrow down the issue.

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Re: Stable VNC Server for Mac OS 9.x?

[Jonathan Morton]

>Does it with no client connected.

Does it also do that with the original vncPatches (from ChromiVNC 
distribution)?
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Re: GPL question for VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm interested in using VNC for a proprietary project.
>My question is can I write a VNC client from scratch
>using the rfb protocol document under a non GPL license?
>
>I would not package the GPL server with the client but
>simply link to the Server.  I havent read anything reguarding
>implementing open protocols with propitary code.

As far as I'm aware, you may write anything you like based on the 
published RFB protocol, and distribute it under any licence you like. 
You simply need to make sure you don't use any actual code from the 
GPL'ed software already available.  The RFB protocol document should 
contain all the necessary information for a competent development 
team to produce a fully compatible client or server.

Incidentally, you could probably package the server in as well, just 
providing you also supplied the source code in some form.

I would talk to AT&T to be perfectly sure about this, as IANAL.
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Re:VNC Compatible with Mac OS 9.1?

[Jonathan Morton]

>>Is VNC compatible with Mac OS 9.1?
>>
>>I cannot configure the viewer.  When I click on the Options button, the
>>dialog box closes.  I cannot make any of the option choices shown in the
>>documentation.  (I also can't make a connection, but that's another matter.)
>
>Works fine with 9.1, get Chromatix's version at 
>.

And for a viewer:
http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/

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Re: RFB Protocol 4.0 - encodings wanted

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'd like to see all the other encodings documented, including
>the Tridia ones.

I'm already working on this, and it'll go up on my site when I've 
caught up with the original ORL documentation.  From that point, I'll 
add new information as I get hold of and understand it sufficiently. 
Bonus point is that ChromiVNC will probably gain functionality as, or 
shortly after, it is documented.  :)

The first extras to be documented will likely be the existing Tridia 
extensions, followed by my own "long password" authentication (this 
is overdue).  There will also be usage and performance notes, based 
on my experience with implementing and supporting ChromiVNC.

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Re: RFB Protocol 4.0 - encodings wanted

[Jonathan Morton]

>We already use RFB version 4.x in some of our projects.  We're now developing
>version 5.0 of the protocol which is a substantial change from the version 3
>protocols.  It would be good to coordinate over what version number you choose
>for your new protocol so that we don't release incompatible protocols which
>claim to be the same version number.  That would be bad :-)

Strongly agree.  I'm sticking to v3.x for my proposals documentation, 
since I don't see any immediate reason to make substantially 
incompatible changes.  I gather the v3.x numberspace is open for this 
kind of use, given that AT&T have already moved beyond this?  I 
suspect v3.x software will remain in use for some considerable time 
to come...
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Re: Alternative VNCservers for the mac

[Jonathan Morton]

>gerard:
>
>following are the servers that I know of:
>
>1) the AT&T server at
>   http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/download.html
>2) the "Chromatix" alternative server at
>   http://wrench.et.ic.ac.uk/adrian/software/vnc/ or
>   http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/
>3) the Mac OS X server at
>   http://www.osxvnc.com/
>
>all work, all do things differently, the first two have java servers as
>well as rfb servers, so you can use a simple web browser as a viewer.  the
>second one is a fat binary with two different sets of startup extensions,
>so it can be used with either 68k machines or PPC machines.

A slight correction is justified here - ChromiVNC (the second in your 
list) doesn't have an integrated Java viewer as yet, though it has an 
HTTP server.  It is currently difficult to configure the HTTP server 
to locate the HTML and Java files, which must themselves be provided 
separately.  I do, however, have this limitation on my to-do list.

The server itself is located at the latter URL, as in my signature. 
Adrian's URL is for his alternative vncPatches extension, which 
supports extra things like the Drag Manager and 68k Macs.  ChromiVNC 
with Adrian's vncPatches68k is currently (and for the forseeable 
future) the only VNC server supporting 68k Macintosh, and the most 
stable available for PPC "Classic" Macintosh.
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Re: This list has fallen onto the ORBS black list

[Jonathan Morton]

>Not sure who to tell this to but all the VNC messages coming in are being
>blocked by ORBS and referred to me as postmaster. I presume the mail server
>hosting this list isn't supposed to be on the ORBS block list.

The ORBS list is defunct.  The blockages are from one of the 
nameservers which is set up to mark *all* queries as "blocked" in 
order to accelerate disuse of the ORBS list.  I can only suggest 
removing ORBS support from your mailserver and switching to one of 
the other spam-prevention schemes.

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Re: Mac to PC Second Mouse Button

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm on a Mac with a 2 button mouse, and I am connected to a PC. I would like
>to be able to use my second mouse button on my Mac as I would on the PC, can
>someone tell me the command to put in the key mapping dialog? I can't seem
>to get it to work!

For starters, go to http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/ and get 
yourself a VNC viewer that works.  Then set it up to use the same 
mapping as you've set up the mouse to use - for example if your right 
button is set up to produce a Shift-click, set up VNCThing to use the 
Shift modifier to activate the second button.

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Re: Windows/Command/Meta-key mapping (was: Re: Taskmanager and a comments about VNC)

[Jonathan Morton]

>  > For example, if the Windows Key could be mapped to the Command Key
>>  on a Mac
>
>As far as I'm aware, that should happen for ChromiVNC Server. 
>I have to admit that I've never tried this (since I don't go near any form  
>of Windows OS as a general rule), but provided that the viewer sends along   
>some sort of 'Meta'-type key modifier information, and provided that key
>combinations involving this key don't get 'interrupted' by the OS in some
>way (or other - like ctrl-alt-del), then ChromiVNC should translate it at
>the server end as a command-key modifier...   (Jonathan?)

If the META, SUPER or HYPER keysyms are used by the viewer, ChromiVNC 
will interpret any of those as being the Command key.  I'm unsure 
whether either WinVNC or UNIX vncviewer actually does that, but 
VNCThing has got the right idea.

For viewers which don't do this, and for older 102-key keyboards, 
I've put in code which also translates a Ctrl-Alt (or Ctrl-Option) 
combo to a Command key.

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Re: NT <-> internet <-> Mac

[Jonathan Morton]

>If I try and do anything even slightly compilcated (dragging of 
>multiple files) it causses my mac to crash.

This weird interaction with the Drag Manager is a known problem in my 
vncPatches, which is fixed by Adrian Umpleby's vncPatches68k.  You 
will find a link to his website in the ChromiVNC site.
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Re: Smart/dynamic determination of encoding type?

[Jonathan Morton]

>Greg Breland's message about how TightVNC could perform worse than VNC
>got me thinking...
>
>It would be nice if TightVNC (and VNC in general, for that matter),
>could have a "best" encoding option. Assuming that you can get some
>round-trip timing information, then you could dynamically determine if
>tight compression (for example) would be faster than hextile, based on
>network latencies and CPU speed.
>
>A simpler algorithm that doesn't need to know about the
>characteristics of the encodings could simply dynamically try each of
>the encodings and then stabilize on the best one. Could this be done
>quickly? (And maybe later re-calibrate if the transfer throughput
>changes a lot.)
>
>A simple "determine best" encoding checkbox would disable the other
>encoding choices. This would also be good for the clueless (like me)
>who really don't know what the differences between the encodings are.

ChromiVNC already determines the "best" encoder to use on a 
per-update basis, by observing the compression ratio each encoding 
produces for the data in question.  However, it doesn't yet take CPU 
speed (at either end) or network latency into account - it relies on 
the user knowing enough to disable undesirable or superfluous codecs 
at the viewer end.
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Re: ChomiVNC http server not working......

[Jonathan Morton]

>However when I tried the web interface, it is just not their. 
>the application claims it is... HELP

Please read the ReadMe file that comes with ChromiVNC.  It explains 
what is needed to get the HTTP server running at present.  I hope to 
make it much easier to use in a future release, but unfortunately I 
don't have the time at the moment.

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Re: Mac version beta 2.2

[Jonathan Morton]

>I am looking for the latest beta of release of VNC where i can set the
>display/port number. Thank you !

See the URL in my signature.
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Re: VNC Password Auto-Entry Mac68k???

[Jonathan Morton]

>VNC Password Auto-Entry Mac68k???
>
>I'm using a Macintosh 68K Powerbook 540
>with touch panel as a front end for my
>home automation network. 
>
>Problem is the password.  I have no keyboard
>to enter the password.  Is there a way to make the
>Macintosh 68K version of VNC start without entering
>a password?
>
>I'm using WinVNC 3.3.3R7 as the server.

http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/

Save a connection file using that, and edit it to contain a password 
line.  Instructions should be included.

HTH,
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Re: VNC Password Auto-Entry Mac68K

[Jonathan Morton]

>Unfortunately, VNCthing requires OS8.1
>I'm using Mac OS7.5.5  Not sure if this is the latest the
>powerbook will run, but it is the latest I could find for free.
>Guess I should have mentioned that I'm looking for a free
>solution.  VNC is free, shouldn't have to pay for a way to
>start it.

You might be able to find an old copy of MacVNC (the precursor to 
VNCThing) on that site, which might support 68K machines on older 
OS's.  Unfortunately, I know of no other semi-stable VNC clients for 
the Mac.  Pity, really...

Maybe someone could do a backport of VNCThing to the Classic API, 
allowing it to be compiled for an OS 7.5.x-compatible and 
68K-compatible target.

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Re: VNC Password Auto-Entry Mac68K

[Jonathan Morton]

>I have a version of VNC viewer (my own code) that I know runs on OSes as
>old as 7.6.1.   If you find that it has bugs on 7.5.x, let me know, I will
>try to fix them for you.
>
>you can find it at:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/tim_senecal
>
>it does require open transport.
>
>it does create "session" files which contain passwords.
>
>it is rather rough around the edges though, try it and see if it works for
>you.

Thanks Tim, I'd forgotten about your viewer.

*runs off and tries it out* ... oops, it crashed.  (while in 
OTCountDataBytes under MacOS 9.1, immediately after connecting to a 
ChromiVNC server)

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Re: VNC Password Auto-Entry Mac68K

[Jonathan Morton]

>I don't have any copies of MacVNC up and didn't keep any around, sorry.
>I could probably retrieve an old copy of the source from Voodoo if
>anyone's interested, but you're also going to need an old copy of
>CodeWarrior to get it to build.

I think I've still got at least a binary copy on my Quadra, might 
even (shock!) have the source as well.  It's by no means perfect, but 
it does seem to work on a basic level.  If Mr. Goodwin doesn't have 
any luck with Tim's viewer, I'll dig it out and send it over.



It's rather a pity I don't have time to maintain a "Classic Mac" 
version of a VNC viewer, otherwise I would.  As it is, I barely have 
time to do anything on ChromiVNC Server, due largely to Tridia's 
apparent reluctance to employ me this summer as they did last summer 
- I have had to find other ways to maintain a reasonable standard of 
living, which precludes me doing much beyond preparing for the 
final-year project at university.



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Re: Mac OS Xa

[Jonathan Morton]

>>  >I would really like to know if anyone else has had strange problems
>>  >with VNC viewers under OSX.
>
>Been using VNCThing since the OSX Public Beta days.  Never had a 
>problem.   Right now I'm using OSX.0.4  and run VNCThing all the 
>time, connecting to PC's running all flavors of Windows and both the 
>ATT&T server and TridiaVNC.  Have never had a glitch.

My experience too, though I have to switch off RRE encoding since 
VNCThing can't handle that.

>Connections to Mac's also work well.  I'm just waiting for 
>"Chromatix" to come up for air at the university and give us a newer 
>version of the server!  <<  : -)  Hi John!  >>

Things are beginning to settle down over here - the present set of 
courses aren't too taxing, although the final-year project looks to 
be "interesting".  I should get at least a little time this term.

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Re: changing Mac server port number for main display

[Jonathan Morton]

>I have a little network behind a cable modem router at the CEO's home,
>consisting of workstations of various platforms.  I need from time to time
>to connect to one or the other of these machines from work, so I have
>installed VNC on each of these machines.  As the cable modem is a single IP
>connection to the internet, and the little network is private non-routable
>IP addresses, I have set port forwarding on the cable modem to forward
>different 590x ports to the different machines.
>
>Everything went smoothly until I got to 5903 forwarding to a Macintosh
>server.  Although I could change the VNC connection port (display number)
>for each of the Windows machines, for the life of me I can't get the display
>number on the Mac to be anything but 0!  Am I missing something?

See the URL in my signature.  :)  You should find ChromiVNC rather 
more flexible in this area.

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Re: Win VNC with Win VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

> would like to know how come VNC is not used for connecting from =
>windows machine to windows machine just like pcanywhere? is there any =
>chance that future version will be able to do that?

You must be confused.  It *is* used like that.

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RE: TridiaVNC Pro GPL violation?

[Jonathan Morton]

> >From what I can tell it certainly looks as though the Pro version is not
>free to install and use after the 30-day evaluation period.
>
>Refer to the following quote from the TridiaVNC Pro Price List at
>http://www.tridiavncpro.com/product/pricing.html
>
>"TridiaVNC Pro Media Kit Includes printed User Guide, coil bound just the
>way you like it, and an Application CD. TridiaVNC Pro comes with a free
>30-day license and 30 days of free support to get you started. TridiaVNC Pro
>License needed to convert the 30-day free evaluation license to a full
>running copy.
>$39 each "

http://www.tridiavncpro.com/product/techoverview.html";>

TridiaVNC Pro, TridiaVNC, and the GPL TridiaVNC Pro is an extension of TridiaVNC. It 
provides the required
enterprise and commercial features needed to deploy TridiaVNC technology within
a modern corporate IT system. TridiaVNC Pro integrates with NT domains,
provides strong encryption for use over the Internet and includes support for
silent installations. Future versions of TridiaVNC Pro will include support for
file transfer between the host and remote systems as well as other tools needed
by high tech support departments.
TridiaVNC components are all licensed
under the GPL. This means that the source code to these components must be made
available to everyone who receives the executables. In addition, commercial or
closed source software such as the TridiaVNC Pro extensions may not link with
the open source software. However, there is no restriction from bundling and
shipping open source software in a commercial product. Many hardware
manufactures include open source software with their own closed source program
packages.
TridiaVNC Pro components are closed source. This software does
not link with the TridiaVNC open source components. However, the TridiaVNC Pro
software provides enhanced services when used in conjunction with the TridiaVNC
components. At a technical level, TridiaVNC Pro supports the RFB protocol
connection for TridiaVNC through one of many virtual tunnels. So, TridiaVNC Pro
enables remote access through TridiaVNC with enhanced authentication and
encryption.



>From that description, it looks as though TVNC Pro is a wrapper around TVNC, much 
>like SSH or Zebedee only friendlier.  If this is so, I don't see any conflict with 
>the GPL, provided the TVNC "components" distributed with TVNC Pro are still licenced 
>under the GPL even in the package.  Perhaps someone with more experience with Windows 
>machines would like to download a trial copy of TVNC Pro and confirm this for us.  
>Incidentally, TVNC Pro's licensing scheme sounds remarkably like "shareware" to me.

It also appears that the original TridiaVNC will still be freely available for most 
platforms, and support "incidents" and "contracts" are still listed in the pricing 
scheme.  So, I would draw a preliminary conclusion that TVNC Pro is a supplement to 
Tridia's business model, not a replacement.

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TridiaVNC Pro licensing (was Re: GPL violation)

[Jonathan Morton]

Just to nip something else:

http://www.openssl.org/";>

The OpenSSL toolkit is licensed under an Apache-style
licence, which basically means that you are free to get and use it for
commercial and non-commercial purposes subject to some simple license 
conditions.



So, even though TVNC Pro includes OpenSSL, an open-source library, 
there is still no conflict of licences.

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Re: Black screen using PPC Mac viewer

[Jonathan Morton]

>I have installed the VNC PPC Mac server on a few of our G4s but when I
>connect to them all I get is a black screen.  One of the Macs is beside me
>and I can see the pointer moving on the server screen but cannot see
>anything on my viewer.  I did manage to see the desktop briefly this morning
>but after a couple of minutes the viewer screen didn't refresh anymore.  I
>could see the changes on the server screen but not in my viewer.

See the URL in my signature - ChromiVNC works a great deal better 
than the AT&T versions of the server.

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Re: Message from Detroit

[Jonathan Morton]

>I just downloaded the VNC version for the Macintosh and it works 
>great. I just need to find out how to emulate a right mouse-click 
>with the one-button Macintosh mouse. Anybody has an idea?

http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/

VNCThing will let you choose a modifier key to use for each mouse button.

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Re: VNC Server + Energy Saver on Macintosh?

[Jonathan Morton]

>Has anyone had any success running a VNC server with the Energy Saver
>control panel (which puts Mac to sleep) on a Macintosh?  I'd like to put my
>Mac to sleep and have it wake up when I access it with VNC. I tried setting
>the Energy Saver to wake up on LAN activity, but it wakes up immediately and
>never goes to sleep. I guess there is local LAN activity all the time. So I
>set just the display to sleep after 20 minutes, but then the VNC server does
>not wake up when I try to connect. Shouldn't VNC Server work even if the
>display is asleep?
>
>I'm currently using Chromatix VNC Server on Mac OS 9, but I've also tried
>this with the AT&T VNC Server.  Thanks for any ideas!

The latest (internal) version of ChromiVNC can "survive" a PowerBook 
sleep, and should also handle a desktop machine sleeping as well.  I 
don't recall whether the published version also has this feature, 
from your description it sounds like it doesn't.

I've found a little time to work on ChromiVNC recently, so I might be 
able to make a new release shortly.

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Re: CPU time????

[Jonathan Morton]

>Does running VNC on a Unix box eats up the CPU time?

Depends on what you're using it for, and whether you're logged into 
it.  If you're not logged in and you have nothing drawing into the 
server framebuffer, it won't take any CPU.  If you're logged in and 
have a big animation going, of course it's going to eat CPU.  It's 
all a matter of perspective.

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Re: VNC and KDE

[Jonathan Morton]

>I am running Red Hat 7.1 and tried to modify the xstartup file so that it
>would load KDE.   But it failed miserably always crashing.
>
>Am I doing something wrong or is KDE incompatible with this or what is the
>problem that I am having?   What am I doing wrong...

You need to start Xvnc with "-cc 3" or in a depth greater than 8-bit.

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Re: Confirmation on connection

[Jonathan Morton]

>We are testing several remote control programs, to replace an outdated (non
>W2K compliant) program we are using nowadays on our helpdesk (Reachout).
>
>The program is used to help our end-users when they have problems with their
>desktop applications
>
>VNC seems an ideal candidate, but we ran into a small problem. Security
>policies over here demand that the user, from who we want to see his screen,
>must be warned when we want to take over control of his computer (we are a
>hospital, and sometimes there is personal information on a screen, that may
>not be seen). He then has the possibility to either refuse or accept the
>connection (maybe after closing some screens or files).
>
>I may be wrong, but I cannot find such an option in the VNC server. Anyone
>an idea how to accomplish this? I am not a programmer, so maybe anyone else
>has integrated this functionality into his program...

Yes, there is a version of WinVNC with this capability.  I don't 
remember the exact details (Mac and Linux user) but someone will be 
glad to assist you here.

In the meantime, please look over the documentation on the AT&T 
website, including the FAQ.

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Re: virus?

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm new to the list, but I have been using VNC for a few years now
>on several platforms.
>
>On an NT4.0 system Sophos Anit-Virus reports that W32/Hybris-B was
>detected in vncviewer.exe.  This is reported as soon as the file
>vnc-3_3_3r9_x86_win32.zip is unzipped.  I saw the virus notes in
>the archives and the web page but this reports a different, and
>specific virus.
>
>Anyone know anything about this one?

I suggest posting Sophos the archive and asking them what they think. 
I seriously doubt 3.3.3r9 has had a virus in it for the time 
(months?) it's been posted.

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Re: searching tool: recording video of application usage

[Jonathan Morton]

>I hope you can help me with this one. Is there a tool I could use to 
>make a presentation of a programm, when programm is not available 
>where I have to do the presentation.
>
>Is there any tool that allows me to prepare the presentation on e.g. hardisk?
>
>This includes the video output with mouse cursor and audio (if 
>available). I need it for an Windows Application.
>
>Can I pipe the VNC server output to a file and use that file as the 
>source for the viewer later? Or do I need a different tool.

You can use rfbproxy for this purpose, I believe.  However, it won't 
handle audio, as VNC doesn't do audio itself.  If accurate timing is 
not critical, you could make a tape recording of the audio and sync 
it roughly on presentation.

RFBproxy is available from the "contributions" page on AT&T's website.

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JPEG encoding

[Jonathan Morton]

Can someone remind me which of the available VNC clients have 
JPEG-encoding support?  I'm trying to test something.  Details of how 
the encoding is expected would be handy, too.

TIA,
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Re: Xwindows CHOOSER and VNC strangeness

[Jonathan Morton]

>I then select 1 of the Xservers from the list and select "ok".
>
>The vncviewer then exits. ( This is strange to me why???)
>
>I then connect back to the CHOOSER machine and the machine then connects me to
>the Xserver that I had chosen on the first connection from the list.

If the server's resolution or pixel depth changes at this point, that 
probably explains it.  I strongly suggest examining the logs of both 
client and server for clues - if you can't make sense of them, post 
them here (preferably sanitised without your IP addresses).

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RE: JPEG encoding

[Jonathan Morton]

>That would be Tight VNC.  Detailed explanation of encoding probably best
>left to Const Kaplinsky...

Looking at the TightVNC source, it seems that JPEG is implemented as 
a subencoding of TightVNC, rather than as something separate.  Still, 
it may be usable for what I have in mind.

More detail here...  I have a tiny VNC server embedded in a modified 
version of the XawTV webcam utility.  At the moment it makes no 
attempt to compress the data, other than breaking it down into tiles, 
sending the most-changed ones first, and throttling back when changes 
between frames are insignificant.  It works fairly well over 
broadband connections, but implementing compression on each tile 
would further reduce bandwidth use and possibly make it tolerable 
over analogue modems.

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Re: was TightVNC compression vs. SSH compression, now protocol overheads

[Jonathan Morton]

>  > Is the slowdown that results from SSH caused by 1) an increase in
>the amount
>>  of data sent between the two endpoints of the secure tunnel or is the
>>  slowdown caused by 2) just the additional computation necessary to
encrypt
>>  and decrypt the data stream?
>
>Rather than ask the question like that, spin it around.
>
>Given a fixed bandwidth connection, is it possible that some protocol
>will not fit through the connection?  The answer is always yes.
>
>As protocol overhead approaches channel bandwidth, what happens?
>The answer varies quite strongly on the combination of prototcols.
>
>Recall that for a dial-up connection, you are typically running IP on
>the raw layer, TCP on that, PPP on that, then perhaps a VPN on that,
>perhaps with SSL on that, then VNC on top, and finally the user is doing
>something.

Swap IP for PPP.  PPP runs on the raw layer, IP on top of that, any
VPN goes here followed by another IP layer, TCP on top of that, SSL
on that followed by VNC.  Please, don't mangle the OSI stack any more
than BSD already has.

>One keystroke or mouse movement results in a cascade of ever-expanding
>encapsulations.  Think about running in 300 baud.  Could the SSL ever
>get a complete ACK within its timer if there were a few dozen retries
>at the TCP level?  No, not in any reasonable time.
>
>If all the protocols are stateless, response time can go to infinity,
>and everthing is still correct.  For example, try runnig NFS over PPP
>on a noisy, slow line -- write speed of 1 byte per minute is perfectly
>valid.

Only if the line is *extremely* bad.  You're talking pathelogical
conditions which no sane user would even attempt to run graphical,
interactive applications over.  And yes, NFS is designed to work with
unreliable links, and will tend to do the Right Thing
 when things go
wrong - it's not expected to perform well in those circumstances.

>One "wild" idea I have is to run VNC on UDP (like FTP and NFS) instead
>of on TCP.  Yes, this would be a major, perhaps impossible, change.
>For low bandwidth connections, it would be winner.

FTP does not run on UDP.  I don't think NFS does either.  You forget
that UDP stands for Unreliable Datagram Protocol, and RFB *requires*
reliable transport.  If you look closely at the RFB specification,
you will notice that there is no defined way to locate the beginning
of a message, unless you can follow the entire stream up to that
point (you can guess, but that is also unreliable).  The messages can
be (and usually are) bigger than any UDP packet, so you can't use a
packet boundary as a marker.

Additionally, the whole premise is based on the server knowing which
parts of the screen have arrived at the client, or are at least on
their way - again, only possible with a reliable transport such as
TCP.  If your packet loss was high enough for UDP to be a significant
performance gain, the end user would only see bits of the screen, or
you'd have to send so much redundant data that it'd be a net loss.
TCP will, in general, only retransmit packets that have actually been
lost in transit, and is thus extremely efficient as a reliable stream
transport.

To overcome the difficulties in the previous two paragraphs, you'd
practically have to re-implement TCP.  Reinventing the wheel is a Bad
Thing
.  Also, it'd make you incompatible with existing VNC
implementations, which is highly unlikely to win you many supporters.

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Re: am I on line??

[Jonathan Morton]

>If anyone sees this message, could you please reply?
>I don't think I'm getting through.

It's getting through all right.  Make sure you're subscribed properly 
(CC'ed to make sure he gets this).  If you get two copies of this 
message, you're subscribed - otherwise not.

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Re: Need Mac VNC Server without rfbauth option

[Jonathan Morton]

>The reason is, that I have to control the Mac from a Linux Box. This can
>be very
>nicely achieved by the progs rfbmacro and rfbproxy by Tim Waugh. Both
>however
>do not yet support auth.

See the URL in my signature - ChromiVNC can operate without a 
password, if you simply leave both password fields blank.

However, you should make *absolutely* sure that no unauthorised 
access to the Mac is possible through the network.  It doesn't matter 
that only you use the machine you normally connect from, if someone 
can use a different machine to connect anyway.  Use the no-password 
feature at your own risk.

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Re: Windows XP

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm using vnc and if i want to print out something from the program i am in
>it only gives me the option for my work printers how do i print to my home
>printer?

You have to move the file onto the computer with the printer on it. 
VNC doesn't provide direct support for this, but you could FTP it to 
some webspace and download it from there, or alternatively e-mail it 
to yourself.  Of course, this only works if you have the requisite 
application at home.

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Re: How to choose which IP VNC uses

[Jonathan Morton]

>Wow. I didn't even know Crapintoshes could do NAT...

That's what IPNetRouter is for.  And please don't insult Macs.

>But more to the
>point, can't you just block all outsiders from ports 5800-5999? Those
>are the ports VNC uses.

That's probably the best idea.  I don't recall whether IPNR will do 
that, but it should.  Of course, this assumes VNC is "finding" the 
internal NIC as well as the external - I don't see any obvious reason 
why it shouldn't.

>Oh, and if you're on a Mac you can only use
>display 0 which would only use ports 5800(for the web service) and
>5900(for the meat & potatoes)

BT!  Wrong!  Well, right if you were only using the AT&T server. 
But ChromiVNC is a *lot* more flexible than that, kapiche?

>  > VNC persists in finding the internal NIC, and so the exposed IP and using
>  > it. While that works alright, I do not want to risk the exposure of VNC to
>>  the internet, but I cannot figure out how to tell it to use the "inside"
>  > IP, which is in the 192.168.x.x space.

Dual-NIC setups on a Mac are somewhat unusual, hence the need for 
IPNR.  If you can't make IPNR do what you need, contact me directly 
and I'll see about making a change to ChromiVNC for you, so it will 
"bind" to a specific address.

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Re: How to choose which IP VNC uses

[Jonathan Morton]

>  >  And please don't insult Macs.
>
>Why shouldn't I? I use one every day, and believe me, if I could, I'd
>throw that POS right out the window!

Strange, I have four of them and want more.

>  > BT!  Wrong!  Well, right if you were only using the AT&T server.
>>  But ChromiVNC is a *lot* more flexible than that, kapiche?
>
>Another thing about Macs - their users are mostly rude and arrogant. Not
>only do they say things like "BT!  Wrong!"

"Rude and arrogant" am I?  There are plenty around who would (and do) 
say the opposite.  They'd also probably see you in that light instead.

>they go around stealing
>Free Software code by pretending they wrote it, then charging an
>outrageous fee for it.

If you mean the BSD kernel in OS X, I suggest you read the BSD 
licence - it's specifically designed to allow commercial use of the 
code.  All you have to do is acknowledge the original sources, which 
I see no indication of Apple trying to cover up (they even use "BSD 
UNIX kernel" in public-facing advertising).  Most of the cost of OS X 
is made of Apple's proprietary technologies, which are layered neatly 
on *top* of the kernel, where they should be.

>Don't get me wrong - there are plenty of nice Mac users, and some of
>Apples new stuff (like OS X and the iPod) looks really sweet, but I
>still say that the average Macintosh (An iMac running OS 9.1 or so)
>locks up constantly, is incredibly slow, and still has laughable
>multitasking - in other words, it SUCKS!

"Locks up constantly" probably means you have an Extensions conflict, 
or a buggy application.  Deal with it.  "Is incredibly slow" is 
probably caused by much the same things too.  "Laughable 
multitasking" ... well what do you expect, based on a 1984 OS that 
didn't do multitasking *at all*?  That's exactly what OS X is 
supposed to fix, and has done so very well.

If you think Win9x has better multitasking or protected memory, think 
again.  I could tell you a few horror stories about how poorly 9x is 
implemented, but they're so technical you probably wouldn't 
understand them.

FYI, my Macs usually last at least a week between reboots, unless I'm 
coding on them.  That's under MacOSes 8.1, 8.6 and 9.1 (mostly 
depending on the age of the Mac), with quite a number of Extensions 
loaded and a heavy usage pattern.  I have only once had to do a fresh 
reinstall of a Mac due to corruption - counting 4 Macs over several 
years' use - compared with regular monthly reformats on Win98SE (I 
use 95B where Windoze is installed at all, for mostly that reason).

All this is old hat anyway.  Both Windoze and the Mac are moving 
forward, away from the old DOS and System 7 legacies.  Even their new 
identities are inferior in many ways to Linux and *BSD, although 
MacOS X comes the closest with it's BSD kernel and draws ahead in 
certain areas such as the GUI.  You should certainly not trash the 
Mac based on it's old image.

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Re: Can you disable remote pointer & keyboard with a UNIX VNC server?

[Jonathan Morton]

>We're running a VNC server on Solaris. For shared connections we'd 
>like to disable the remote user's mouse and keyboard...an option we 
>see is available with the Window VNC. Does anyone know how to do 
>this?

There was a patch to Xvnc available which allowed a separate 
"view-only password".  I don't recall whether this made it into any 
final releases, but the patch is probably still available.

ChromiVNC (for Mac, which probably isn't much use to you) implements 
view-only passwords in the standard distribution.

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Re: MacViewer into PCs

[Jonathan Morton]

>I will be away for 10 days at New Year's and still need
>to access all the systems for routine maintenance. I will
>be thousands of miles away. I will be using a friend's
>Mac OS 8.6.

http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/

Don't forget to turn off RRE encoding in this viewer, it tends to 
mess things up.  Apart from that, it should do what you want it to. 
For MacOS 8.6, you may need to download the latest CarbonLib from 
Apple, but that shouldn't be a major problem to do.

>I am not Mac savvy anymore. Can someone assist me so I
>gather just the minimum on my friend's machine? Also,
>I may need to "right click"; how do I do that on a Mac?

Probably by holding down a modifier key in conjunction with the 
mouse.  VNCThing's documentation should hold the answers.

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Re: SuSE 7.1 on CHRP-PPC (RS/6000) platform

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm still lost in finding a VNC for this setup (see subject).  Any
>ideas?

Compile Xvnc for Linux.  If that doesn't work, it's a bug - report it.

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Re: Mac VNC Question

[Jonathan Morton]

>I discovered VNC in a MacAddict Article "10 Things You Don't Know 
>How to Do (and Probably Shouldn't)", and it worked great under Mac 
>OS 8.6. However, Mac OS 9 is out, and has been for sometime. When I 
>went to OS 9, the program upon connection, with the right settings, 
>before it asks for the password puts up the error 
>"T_DNRSTRINGTOADDRCOMPLETE fails - 3170 kOTBadNameErr - A bad 
>endpoint name was supplied."
>
>Is this my fault, or is it a bug? Any help?

It's a long-standing bug, one of many.  See the URL in my signature for a fix.

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Re: macintosh issue....

[Jonathan Morton]

>I am connecting to a Mac from Windows. I need for the desktop picture
>to NOT display since it is really slow. Is there anyway to disable it
>(so it doesn't pass the 1024x768 jpg over the network)?

Yes.  Open the Appearance control panel, go to the Desktop tab, click 
on the offending picture and click "Remove Picture".  You might also 
want to select a flat pattern (I like 'Azul Dark') while you're there.

In a future release of ChromiVNC, I might be able to implement an 
encoding which handles photographs better, such as JPEG.  Don't hold 
your breath though, it'll take a while.  I also have ideas on how to 
handle repeating patterns better, but again it's secondary to my 
university work.

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Re: Password Protect Change Password

[Jonathan Morton]

>What I want to ask is if there is a way to password protect the ability to
>change the server password?  I've got it installed on my mother-in-law's
>Win98 PC (as a service) and my brother-in-law keeps changing the password so
>he can get into her computer.

There isn't a "password protection" on it, but there is a Registry 
entry which disables the Properties menu.  Nothing is completely 
secure on Win9x, but it's another hurdle for him to jump over. 
Please read the docs and FAQ for full info, as I'm not a regular 
Windoze user and don't have the info in my head all the time.  :)

>Mysteriously she forgets all the steps everytime it has to be done.

Sounds like my mother too.  She's an artist, and needed help with the 
Colour Picker in Photoshop...  but at least she has the sense to 
write down steps.

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Re: Mac VNC Question

[Jonathan Morton]

>>It's a long-standing bug, one of many.  See the URL in my signature 
>>for a fix.
>
>The link is dead.

Sorry about that, unbeknownst to me my ISP was moving servers at the 
time, including the one hosting my website.  It came back again about 
an hour or two later.

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Re: ssh -R to hear ports outside the firewall

[Jonathan Morton]

>Thank you, I tried now to connect at linux server from another port, but
>with the same result.
>The interesting thing is that while 'ssh -R' tunnel is established vnc
>viewer does not return any messages, but when I close the tunnel it
>immediatesy tell to the consol I started it from that VNC server closed
>connection.

That might be a DNS-reverse-lookup problem.  Leave it for a few 
minutes and see if it completes the connection.

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Re: ssh -R to hear ports outside the firewall

[Jonathan Morton]

>  > That might be a DNS-reverse-lookup problem.  Leave it for a few
>  > minutes and see if it completes the connection.
>
>Hi Jonatan, will you please instruct me in details what should I do 
>and what may be the source of such DNS-reverse-lookup check which 
>failed, - VNC server, viewer or sshd daemon, or what?

When a client connects to an SSH tunnel, the SSHd does a reverse 
lookup on the client.  If this fails, it may take several minutes 
over it, during which the client will show an open connection but no 
data flow.  Simply be patient until the lookup fails completely, and 
it should continue as normal.

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RE: ssh -R to hear ports outside the firewall

[Jonathan Morton]

>  > I waited several hours, but nothing happened. Is there
>>  anybody succeded in
>>  connecting to VNC server through the tunnel, organized by
>>  "ssh -R" option?
>
>It works. But my experience is that when "ssh -R" is used with sshd on linux
>(at least OpenSSH), then sshd listens only on 127.0.0.1:portnumber.

Fix this using the -g parameter (listen to everywhere, not just 
localhost).  The -C parameter helps reduce bandwidth across the 
tunnel.  Finally, try pressing Return on the SSH process...  I don't 
know why, but sometimes it likes to have a human poke it.

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Re: VNC on Agenda VR3?

[Jonathan Morton]

>This cute lil' PDA is sort of an orphan now. It runs Linux. It runs X.
>It supports 4-bit gray scale It has a 3" screen. It runs on two AA
>batteries. It has a serial port. Has anybody put either VNC server or a
>VNC viewer on this puppy?

If it runs Linux and X, and has a network connection, I see 
absolutely no barrier to putting the standard vncviewer on it.  Of 
course, I haven't tried running vncviewer on low-bit-depth screens, 
but...

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Re: Problem flipping between 2 screens

[Jonathan Morton]

>My problem is that there appears to be 2 separate screens which are being
>handled and presented by the vncserver. I can open up an xterm window, add
>Xeyes, etc. and then work with a program which uses multiple windows on
>screen (dia or fetchmailconf).
>
>When I am in the middle of doing something, usually when I have touched a
>screen boundary with a mouse slew - Suddenly a 'new' screen appears - with
>a different xterm window. All of the other on-screen windows have
>disappeared.
>
>I can move the xterm window on the current screen around, slew the mouse,
>open other windows/applications, basically trying to duplicate some magic
>mouse or keyboard combination which will cause the 'other' screen to
>reappear.

You're using a "virtual window manager" which can display multiple 
desktops.  Usually, switching is done by touching the screen border, 
or choosing from some navigation tool.  If you accidentally activate 
it, you can switch back by touching the opposite side of the screen.

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Re: Connection Speed

[Jonathan Morton]

>What in the min Connection Speed VNC needs

There is no hard minimum.  However, you will find performance 
degrades on very slow connections, or on slow connections when 
complex graphics are being viewed.

Some people use VNC from PDAs with 9600 baud connections.  An 
average-sized desktop should be usable over an analogue modem 
(TightVNC is probably better at this than the stock distributions). 
Performance over a LAN or a broadband connection is generally good or 
better.

Your bandwidth requirements will depend on your application, your 
settings, and your performance expectations.

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Re: MacVNC Question

[Jonathan Morton]

>  >> There's an extension backend, but you still have to run the VNC Server
>>>  application frontend don't you?
>>
>>  No, the first version of ORL/ATT's Mac server was a pure extension,
>>  there was a control panel to configure it but that was not necessary
>>  to run (after configuration).
>
>So I'm confused... you're saying that I can have the VNC extension present
>and that's all I need? Until I run the "VNC Server PPC" application I can't
>access the server -- I always get a "not found" message.

The OLD servers from ORL/AT&T were pure extension + control panel 
configurations.  However, they were hideously unstable.  In fact, 
they consisted of "vncPatches" and a faceless application, like many 
"extensions".

The NEW server from myself (ChromiVNC) is much more stable, uses a 
modified version of the same vncPatches, and uses a full application, 
not a faceless one.

>Is there a way that I don't have to have the VNC server running, where the
>extension alone is enough for everything to work properly? That'd be the
>best solution.

Technically, no.  The faceless application might be the closest to 
what you want - except for the instability.

See my other post on this subject.

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Re: MacVNC Question

[Jonathan Morton]

>  >>> I'm trying to implement VNC on a few MacOS 8.5 computers I 
>have, but don't
  want there to be any "evidence" per se of VNC's presence. I'd like to use
  the computers without VNC having to be in the list of running applications
  and no UI whatsoever.

  Any ideas?

Ah, as someone else mentioned, we have another Peeping Tom.  There 
are remarkably few legitimate uses for such a modification.

>  >> Yeah. Put it in the startup items invisible. There should be no
>>>  evidence, and it should run. However, this is off the top of my
>  >> head, and I am not sure.

Nope, that won't work.  At best, you could use an AppleScript to load 
and then hide ChromiVNC, but it'd still be in the Applecation menu.

>  > The old, 1.0, version was a extension rather than a application.

The ORL/AT&T versions were, but they still put stuff in the menubar 
and loaded "background apps" which many tools (OtherMenu is a good 
start) can display.  Oh, and they were/are hideously unstable - don't 
expect to go un-noticed with them.

>There's an extension backend, but you still have to run the VNC Server
>application frontend don't you?

With ChromiVNC that is true.

Bear in mind that I will not support my software being used as 
spyware, so I want confirmation of what you really want to do with it 
before I even think about helping you "hide" VNC on Macs.  There's 
nothing stopping you from taking my software and modifying it, as 
long as you adhere to the GPL, but you get zero support for such 
spyware from me.

Here's some stock "uses" and acceptable alternatives:

- Employee monitoring:
You are not allowed to spy on employees' computers, just like 
tapping the telephone system is illegal.  You may introduce a 
security policy - which employees must read and agree to before 
implementation - which explicitly states that monitoring software may 
be used, at which point there is no longer any need to hide VNC.
ChromiVNC provides a very discreet indication of connections 
(a count in one of the windows) which most users will not notice but 
which I currently feel is acceptable.  Your policy, should you 
require it, may include mandatory running of VNC at all times.

- Student monitoring:
See above.  Students are naturally inquisitive and will 
quickly find ways to shut down VNC however well it is hidden or 
protected, thus making such hiding or protection irrelevant.  The 
remedy is appropriate sanctions (including withdrawal of computer-use 
privileges) against miscreants.

- Tech support:
VNC doesn't need to be running all the time, although it can 
be.  Simply direct users to launch VNC when requesting support, and 
keep a standard password which is available to tech support 
personnel.  An "attach new client" option is a possibility, and may 
be implemented if requested.

- FBI/CIA/MI5/etc surveillance:
You aren't going to get any support for *that* from me.

I hope this makes my position clear.

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Re: Reverse connect: How to select 1 of many servers

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm running a number of vncservers on a host.
>Is there a way to specify which one I want
>for a reverse connection?  Thanks.

What platform?

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Re: AW: Timeout Problem with XP - firewall not the problem

[Jonathan Morton]

>Slashdot.org, circa 2006:
>
>Microsoft announced today the release of Windows PUO (the PU stands for
>Pay Us Often.) It is most notable for its vastly simplified license
>agreement - the new release ships with a short 500-page EULA that is
>rumored to require only one new license to be purchased for every mouse
>click.
>Read More... (435 of 19042 comments)

Windows has detected that your mouse has been moved.  Windows must 
restart for the changes to take effect.

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Re: MacVNC Question

[Jonathan Morton]

>It's perfectly understandable that you don't want your project used as
>"spyware". I simply want to use it between a few computers of mine. My macs
>are at a 640x480 resolution so *any* less bit of screen clutter would be the
>best... I shouldn't have used phrases such as "don't want any evidence"
>because it's apparently aroused suspicions. I simply wanted to keep my
>message as short and sweet as possible, without getting into a long winded
>description of my situation.

Then I don't see what your problem is.  You can use an AppleScript to 
load+hide it at startup.  You can rename the application so that it 
comes last in the Application menu and is thus out of the way.  You 
can even install the Prestissimo control panel and have it 
automatically hide applications as you switch away from them, or 
LiteSwitch and avoid using the Application menu altogether.  Any and 
all of those would be vastly easier than hacking ChromiVNC into a 
faceless app.

I just wish you'd made yourself clear to begin with.

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Re: Macintosh TightVNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>Well, since TightVNC is based on VNC code, it has to be GPL. What I was
>really asking is, are there any pitfalls in using Unix or Windows C code
>on a Mac? Also, are there any free compilers for the Mac?

Personally, I recommend working with Dair Grant and his VNCThing 
viewer rather than the AT&T Mac vncviewer.  VNCThing has only one 
serious bug in my recent experience (it chokes on RRE updates, which 
are easily disabled) and works with any Mac with the requisite 
version of CarbonLib installed.  Also, it already has a couple of 
"enhanced" encodings installed (Zlib and Zlib-Hextile), so you can 
see how to do it by comparing VNCThing's code to the TridiaVNC 
versions.

The disadvantage is that VNCThing has a different source layout than 
the AT&T codebase that TightVNC is based on, and so maintaining 
synchronity with TightVNC updates and bugfixes may require extra 
effort.

I believe VNCThing uses the non-free Metrowerks CodeWarrior 
environment, which is nevertheless an excellent 
compiler/editor/debugger combo.  I strongly recommend that anyone 
wishing to do serious Mac development gets themselves a full copy. 
As a student, I get a significant discount on it, and plan to upgrade 
to the latest version when my next loan instalment arrives.

As for specific platform issues, just remember that the Mac uses Open 
Transport instead of BSD-style sockets, and runs on big-endian 
processors (680x0 and PowerPC) rather than the little-endian x86.  If 
you start from the UNIX source for TightVNC, you should find that 
endian-independent code is already in place.

If Constantinos has any sense, he'll have left the endian-independent 
code in the Windows source as well, but starting from the UNIX base 
is usually best.  I haven't examined the code specifically for this, 
but I believe the networking code is separate from the encoding in 
both TightVNC and VNCThing, so you shouldn't have to worry about Open 
Transport too much.

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Re: Is VNC still being worked on?

[Jonathan Morton]

>If you run a TightVNC server that uses extra
>compression over the protocol, how can a
>non-TightVNC viewer understand it?

The viewer fails to send the indication that it understands Tight 
encoding (which is correct - it doesn't), and so the server simply 
doesn't send it.

>I thought you had to use TightVNC on both sides
>of the com-link.

To take advantage of Tight encoding, yes.  For simple interoperability, no.

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Re: RFB Protocol

[Jonathan Morton]

>Does someone know, why RFB which is not fixed message size protocol (when it
>comes to screen updates) is not defined the Following way:
>
>[CARD32 MessageSize]
>[Message[MessageSize]]
>
>Why the protocol does not contain a Message Size field as the 1st member?

Lack of foresight, probably.  The original developers never realised 
that future extensions might go beyond simple graphics encodings.

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RE: RFB Protocol

[Jonathan Morton]

>Ahm, can we change it?, I mean it's not SUCH a big change and I'm sure that
>all of us will support it. And we can always maintain backward
>compatibility.

How?  Think about all the massive set of software already using the old system.

Don't answer that.  I've already thought of a way that does this 
along with a whole bundle of other stuff.  Documenting and 
implementing it would be a royal pain, however, which I don't have 
timme for.  :(

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RE: Loading Initial Screen then disconnects

[Jonathan Morton]

>Alex - Changing the NIC solved the problem.  The old one was an ancient
>AT-1500T running at 10Mhz half duplex.   We put in a newer card and
>nailed it up at 100Mhz/half duplex.
>
>We did have the switch port fixed 10/half - we've experienced too many
>problems with auto-negotiation in the past.  The odd part is that the
>machine worked fine under "normal" low traffic, running both IP and IPX.
>I guess the card just had a problem with the massive amount of info
>being sent out for screen updates.

Yes, I've seen cards lock up under heavy traffic too.  Sometimes it 
was a driver problem, but with this particular card I just removed it 
from the system altogether and replaced it with something more 
reliable.  With an ISA-based 486, this meant another 10baseT card, 
but I found a 3c509b and a DE220 which are currently working very 
reliably.

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RE: Macintosh PPC - Run as a Hidden Process

[Jonathan Morton]

>I remember a tool called KeepItUp
>that ran in the background on the Mac and was tied to certain apps.  When you
>tried to close an app that was monitored, KeepItUp would prevent it from
>closing.

This looks like the solution most people actually need, provided the 
tool still exists and works correctly.  My guess is that it patches 
the AppleEvent handler and ExitToShell(), which should be standard 
interfaces.

BTW, thanks Adrian for pointing out my archived response to a similar 
question.  As you might be able tell, I feel quite strongly about 
this.

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Re: Macintosh VNC & Security

[Jonathan Morton]

> I'm attempting to convince my IT dept. that I need VNC to run on the
>Macs in my labs.  Basically, VNC allows me and my staff to assist our
>clients remotely, which is a huge blessing because our labs are spread all
>over campus, so we're not always physically in position to help our clients
>in-person, but we can use (and have been using) VNC to do so.  The rub is
>this:  one side of campus (the university side) is pretty open when it comes
>to internet traffic.  Therefore, we had no problem installing ChromiVNC on
>those machines.  The other side of campus (hospital/clinic) is much more
>strict in terms of outside connectivity (and rightly so!).  So we're looking
>for the right argument and ammunition to convince them that it's secure.
>I've been looking for solutions (SSH?) to help me in my justification.
>Anybody have any ideas here?

If you can use SSH, I suggest setting up a proxy box on the 'edge' of 
the network and prohibiting traffic ingress from anywhere but this 
machine.  That way you can worry about securing one box instead of 
many, perhaps by requiring a login via SSH to open a tunnel towards 
the inside of the network.

Of course this works best if you have only a few users who will 
actually need to access VNC from outside, and they are reasonably 
competent (if it's you and your staff, that's fairly likely).  But 
for security you want that anyway.

For maximum reliability, I suggest using Adrian Umpleby's add-on to 
ChromiVNC, known as vncPatches68k.  It replaces the vncPatches 
supplied with ChromiVNC and fixes several problems which can cause 
session freezes, which would otherwise require physical presence at 
the machine to resolve.

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Re: Mac PPC Viewer getting OT error

[Jonathan Morton]

>I just tried setting up a Mac PPC Viewer on a Mac OS 8.5 system running
>Open Transport 2.0.1. When attempting to connect I immediately get
>
>OTOptionManagement fails f3a0 kOTStateChangeErr - State
>is changing - try again later

This is a known problem with the AT&T viewer.

http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/

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Re: Right-clicks from a Mac

[Jonathan Morton]

>I'm VNCing to a Windows machine from a Mac, and can't find a way of 
>sending right-clicks.
>
>Can anyone enlighten me?

http://www.webthing.net/vncthing/

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RE: Right-clicks from a Mac

[Jonathan Morton]

>So in sum -- VNCThing and a two button mouse was a
>simple solution that was non-invasive to my friend's
>machine. I recommend you try that. I also got some
>helpful and prompt support from Jonathan Morton on this
>list who I believe is the developer.

I'm not the developer of VNCThing (the client), only of ChromiVNC 
(the server).  I just happen to use VNCThing as one of the main test 
platforms for ChromiVNC, so I end up explaining it's quirks to people 
who ask.

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RE: VNC Manager only free for personal use

[Jonathan Morton]

>   This thread is turning good.  ;)  It's all in good spirit. 
>I'm sure the *NIX guys are saying "'common, what's all this scanner 
>fuss about, we have NMAP!" ;)  We Windowz users like a GUI for 
>everything.

What, you mean like NmapFE?  ;)

(so he says from his swanky new MacOS X installation)

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Re: VNC zlib Advisory draft 1

[Jonathan Morton]

>If you maintain a version of VNC that includes zlib in the viewer or
>server, please get back to me if you are affected, and what plans you
>have to go to zlib version 1.1.4 or the fixed version of zlib from
>Redhat.



>Product:ChromiVNC

ChromiVNC does not yet implement the Zlib encoding, and thus does not 
include the Zlib library.  Please remove it from the list of affected 
products.

When Zlib is implemented, I will use the latest version of the 
library available at that time.

TIA,

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RE: VNC zlib Advisory draft 1

[Jonathan Morton]

>Apple does not seem to have made any comment about Classic Mac OS.
>(Do apps have to include their own zlib if used in Classic, just as
>VNCThing has?)

As far as I can tell, all Classic applications that use Zlib are 
statically linked with it, except for a few which include a dynamic 
library with the application itself.  MacOS Classic does not include 
Zlib by itself, except as part of the Java VM, in which it is not 
accessible except to Java applications.

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RE: VNC zlib Advisory draft 1

[Jonathan Morton]

>Depends on your malloc() implementation. The thing that causes the bug
>to appear is an input stream constructed *just* *so*, and that *is*
>platform independent as the inflate input stream is the same regardless
>of platform. Bad things happen when malloc()/free() from libc is also
>faulty or fails in a certain way upon a double free. The best you can
>hope for is a segv, still a downer for the user.

If it's only inflate that's faulty, doesn't that exclude all current 
VNC servers from the vulnerability?  They only deflate, not inflate. 
Of course, it also changes the severity of the vulnerability 
significantly - the exploit happens on the viewer end, which is often 
more useful than on the server end, and an attacker need only be able 
to modify the stream going back to the viewer.

>Most libc's are related - I wouldn't be surprised if MacOS X's malloc is
>related to BSD or gnu's libc. But it also depends on your compiler - if
>Metrowerks have a compiler suite for MacOS X that's not the heavily
>modified gcc that Apple supply, then that could be a dependency.

As far as I can tell, the Metrowerks compiler is unrelated to GCC, 
and the malloc() implementation on Classic MacOS is also unrelated to 
BSD libc.  However, I have no clue what compiler Dair uses for 
VNCThing, and the Carbon API probably translates malloc() into a libc 
call when under MacOS X.

>Suffice to say, it's simpler to re-link with zlib 1.1.4 than to figure
>out if you're actually vulnerable to the input stream.

Yes, and fixing that bug is always good whether it closes a hole or 
not.  The hole just makes it more urgent.

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RE: VNC zlib Advisory draft 1

[Jonathan Morton]

>The prerequisites required to allow this exploit are:

...or a rogue server that is imitating a known server.  Man in the 
middle attack is therefore possible.

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RE: VNC zlib Advisory draft 1

[Jonathan Morton]

>Sure it's possible to authenticate against a nasty server if they have
>discovered your password.

A rogue server could ask for a password, send a challenge, and then 
ignore the response and just let you in, and then set up the exploit 
on the viewer.  It wouldn't even need to send you through to the 
original server - it would appear as though the VNC client had 
crashed, and the human response time to *that* is probably long 
enough for a backdoor to be set up through the hole.  I'm no expert 
on security, but I do know how fast computers can work.

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Re: VNC over AppleTalk?

[Jonathan Morton]

>I would like to use VNC to connect to my old Mac (Performa 6400). I want
>to connect them using AppleTalk through the serial (printer) port.
>
>So here are two questions:
>1. Would the bandwidth be enough to have a
>reasonable working connection with the server running at the lowest
>resolution (I think 640x480) and 256 colors?

AppleTalk encapsulation adds an amazing overhead to normal TCP/IP 
traffic.  I would be surprised if you could get anything useable 
through it.  If at all possible, get Ethernet.

>2. What settings should I use in the TCP/IP and AppleTalk control panels?
>
>I tried to choose AppleTalk(MacIP) as the connection mode, and to manually
>assign IP addresses 0.0.0.1 and 0.0.0.2 and leaving

Try 10.0.0.1 etc - the addresses you selected are invalid for IP. 
The rest sounds vaguely sensible.

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Re: [VCN] ivisit

[Jonathan Morton]

>  > ivisit running, the ivisit webcam images on the client window do not
>  > refresh unless one of the mouse buttons on the client are pushed.

Turn on some of the Polling options in the server preferences.

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Re: Watching video using VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>When I use VNC to access the TV computer it works fine but the 
>window that shows the video signal is black.

That's because TV cards normally use an "overlay" mode to boost 
performance and free the CPU.  The TV signal never reaches the video 
card's framebuffer where VNC can see it, but is instead transmitted 
directly through the video card's RAMDAC via a small buffer and the 
PCI bus.

If your TV application supports it, turn off "overlay" mode.  You 
will probably see performance drop considerably, but it should allow 
VNC to see it.  However, also be advised that VNC is not optimised 
for transmitting video images, and will likely perform very poorly in 
this configuration.

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RE: Watching video using VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>Is this simply because that the video in application is a
>hardware solution, or do other graphical systems bypass VNC?

It's mostly restricted to video.  However, some early 3D cards 
(specifically the 3dfx Voodoo and Voodoo2) attached inline with the 
existing video adapter, and would also show this effect.  Such cards 
are largely obsolete now, mainly because of their age.

>What about
>somebody playing a high-framerate FPS shooter on the machine
>downstairs

Provided it's a full 2D/3D card, like most modern cards, it should 
show.  The same caveat with regard to performance applies, however, 
and you will probably see a framerate drop due to VNC's interference. 
You may also need to switch on full-screen polling, since VNC does 
not catch the "frame flip" events from the 3D engine.  Additionally, 
most games switch screen resolution to play, which will cause WinVNC 
to drop the connection, and you will need to reconnect the client 
during the game.

Approximately speaking, 3D rendering is done in a "back buffer", 
which is then flipped to the front buffer for display.  At all times, 
VNC is able to see the front buffer, whether it's used for 2D or 3D 
at the time.

>Or what about somebody playing a .MOV or .MPG file using a media
>player...would VNC pick that up?

Yes, in most cases, since the decoding is largely done in software 
and pasted to the main graphics framebuffer.  DVD playback on some 
hardware might not be captured, either because hardware MPEG decoding 
is in use, or because the software player is using a hardware 
acceleration on the graphics card, which in turn is bypassing the 
framebuffer.  ATI's "Rage Theatre" chip (featured on some Rage128 and 
most Radeon cards) might be an example here, but I can't confirm the 
behaviour because I don't have a DVD drive in that machine.

>I am just trying to better understand how VNC recreates the monitor input, and
>see how many unusual applications I can apply it to!!

It's mostly about how the video hardware creates it in the first place.

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Re: no static ip

[Jonathan Morton]

>My dsl connection changes ip# every 12 hours from the ISP (Bellsouth Fast
>Access). Is there a way I can have the new IP# sent to me when it changes or
>some type of software that does this ?

http://www.dyndns.org/

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Re: VNC on NT4-Server with Mac client

[Jonathan Morton]

>Anyone else able to shed some light on what's in vogue for Mac telnet
>clients? My last use of telnet from a Mac was NCSA's telnet client back in
>1994.

I use BetterTelnet (based on NCSA Telnet), unless I want SSH.  For 
the latter, I use NiftyTelnet with SSH support added.

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Re: Multiple monitors vnc for mac server?

[Jonathan Morton]

>Does anybody know something about macosx (or 9.x)  vnc server which 
>supports multiple monitors (screens)??

ChromiVNC will do this under MacOS 7.5.5 or later - it will assign a 
display node for each monitor - but is not quite suitable for MacOS 
X.  I don't know whether OSXvnc will handle it.

For ChromiVNC, see my signature.

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Re: VNC bugtraq advisory release candidate now available

[Jonathan Morton]

>The advisory is looking pretty solid, and I'll be posting it in some 24
>hours from now to Bugtraq. Please check out the release candidate for
>any last minute errors, omissions etc.

Tiny niggle...  my name is spelled incorrectly.  :)

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RE: sound problem

[Jonathan Morton]

>yea, it did work before that.. but i hate the onboard sound, it 
>really is horrible. and i just bought all these new speakers and a 
>new card, it cant be the card becuase i already went through 2.  soo 
>it has to be software.

Sometimes this problem appears on certain m/boards, especially 
certain VIA chipsets.  There have been "latency patches" to the 
drivers floating around, and there are frequently newer BIOSes 
available.  You can also try playing with any settings labelled "PCI 
latency" in the BIOS and see if they help.

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Re: Mac VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>I got around it by installing the previous version (beta 2) on another
>machine and configing via that, and then just copied the prefs file to my
>VNC server machine running beta 3. It seems to have worked that way (I
>can now make my changes via the VNC control panel and save them
>correctly).
>
>Is this a known Mac problem? Or did I screw something up? (Everything
>seems to be working ok, so I am assuming it is a problem with VNC, but
>for peace of mind I figured I would ask).

It's a known problem with the AT&T version of MacVNC.  There are also 
lots of other known problems with that program.

That's why I wrote ChromiVNC.  http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/

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Re: Building ChromiVNC Server

[Jonathan Morton]

>>>Is it practical to build ChromiVNC Server using MPW?
>>
>>As far as I'm aware (Jonathan will give you 100% answer here),
>>it requires the Powerplant framework (Metrowerks CodeWarrior).
>>
>>I don't know if it's possible to download and use these classes these
>>days without CodeWarrior itself...?
>>
>>http://www.metrowerks.com/desktop/mactools/powerplant/
>
>Thanks!  I had a poke about the Metrowerks web, but it appears that
>PowerPlant is closed-source and Metrowerks do not want me to use it
>without CodeWarrior.

Yes, PowerPlant is required to build ChromiVNC.  I can tell you, it
made the job a great deal easier!

>By the way, is it also correct to assume that the .5 (dot-mu) file
>distributed with the sources is a project file or similar, unusable
>without buying a tool such as CodeWarrior?

Yes, the .5 file is a project description (equivalent to a Makefile)
which is CodeWarrior specific.  I am unsure whether other development
tools are able to read the CodeWarrior .5 file, but I am reasonably
sure that ProjectBuilder (Apple's environment for MacOS X) is not.

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Re: VNC server for Mac

[Jonathan Morton]

>The Chromatix version will not unstuff into a folder of files at all.

As described on my website, you probably need the latest version of 
StuffIt Expander from http://www.aladdinsys.com/ to unpack ChromiVNC.

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Re: Mac VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>  >I find it a lot more stable than AT&T VNC, even though it does have a few
>>"oddities" of its own...
>
>I glanced that direction before I installed the AT&T version, but since
>the last update of Chromi was almost a year ago, and it is listed as
>alpha, I figured it was probably really unstable and mostly unsupported.
>
>But if you think it is more stable than the AT&T version (which I haven't
>had any other problems with yet, but then, I have barely used it), then I
>will at least take a look at ChromiVNC.

To be honest, I'm using a very strict interpretation of 'alpha' and 
'beta' when releasing versions.  Alpha means "the original developer 
is still finding bugs".  Beta means "the original developer thinks 
it's bug-free and is letting other people bang on it".  Time was, a 
program would only go into full release when both developer and 
beta-testers were satisfied that no bugs remained.

So yes, I'm still finding bugs, and there are features not yet 
implemented.  Unfortunately I have not had time to work on it 
properly for ages.  :(

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Re: Mac VNC

[Jonathan Morton]

>  >I glanced that direction before I installed the AT&T version, but since
>>the last update of Chromi was almost a year ago, and it is listed as
>>alpha, I figured it was probably really unstable and mostly unsupported.
>
>Well, Jonathan usually keeps an eye on this list and is often quite
>responsive...

And it just happens I was in Canada for 3 weeks, and one of my mail 
accounts wasn't forwarded.  And I already had enough mail (from the 
other account) that I didn't even notice!

>(Hey, Jon, any chance of an update coming along sometime...?
>Not that I'm rushing you, since it would probably mean me having to
>update vncPatches68k, which I haven't had to do for a year...)

Maybe after my final exams are done.  They're supposed to start next 
week or so.

>  >But if you think it is more stable than the AT&T version (which I haven't
>>had any other problems with yet, but then, I have barely used it), then I
>>will at least take a look at ChromiVNC.
>
>ChromiVNC also has a couple of other features that may (or may not) interest
>you: the ability to connect to any attached screen, and an extra view-only
>password.
>
>Another, more "under-the-hood", feature is that it chooses "on-the-fly"
>which encoding method to use. eg, it will try out Raw, RRE, CoRRE, and
>Hextile for each update, and choose the 'best' (least network traffic).
>(Note that a bug in the Windows VNC viewer means you should switch off
>CoRRE encoding if you view a ChromiVNC served Mac -or was it RRE? Can't
>remember...)

Disable CoRRE at the server end for AT&T WinVNC, and RRE at the 
server or client end for VNCThing.  Although I don't know whether the 
new version of VNCThing has fixed that bug.

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Re: VNC with headless Mac

[Jonathan Morton]

>I remember Jonathan mentioning to me that he thought it was better
>for the client to have the whole display at its end, even if it was
>not all needed, so it was ready for the case when it scrolled into
>view (or something like that...)

I was having particular trouble with certain viewers, which caused 
all kinds of havoc when it proved necessary to scroll the window. 
Frequently, the result was a partially-updated view and extremely 
poor performance.  Since I expected most users to use a standard Mac 
desktop with menus and icons scattered all over the screen, I figured 
scrolling performance weighed above the ability to "save bandwidth" 
on a small viewer screen.

If many users are using a very small viewer screen, then I may look 
into a way of reducing the update area, while still reducing the 
scrolling artifacts somewhat.  Please join the queue of requested 
features, outside the door.  :)

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Re: Status of VNC for Mac?

[Jonathan Morton]

>What's the current status of VNC for the Mac? What different versions are
>out there, how well do they work, etc.? I'm currently trying to use the
>basic one linked off the main vnc page, but it crashes every time I log
>in.

Yes, the basic AT&T server (all available versions) is extremely buggy.

For MacOS "classic" machines, from 7.5.5 to 9.x and 68030 upwards, 
use ChromiVNC which I wrote to replace the AT&T server.  It's 
available from:
http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/

For MacOS X, I've heard that OSX-VNC is a viable solution:
http://www.osxvnc.com/

You can also use Xvnc on MacOS X, via the BSD Subsystem.  This opens 
up your possibilities to TridiaVNC and TightVNC, although you will 
probably have to compile these two from source.  I'm not aware of the 
extent of availability of binary distributions of Xvnc for MacOS X.

>Also, is there a VNC server for Mac OS X that also serves up the java
>viewer applet? The one available at  doesn't seem
>to.

Maybe that's because MacOS X includes it's own webserver, so you can 
put the applet there with a little tweaking.

ChromiVNC also includes a basic webserver, which can be made to run 
on any available port.  It doesn't have any dynamic capabilities at 
present, but you can easily tweak a static HTML page and applet to 
work well.

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Re: Status of VNC for Mac?

[Jonathan Morton]

>Is the performance of ChromiVNC decent on the older Macs?

The oldest machine I've personally tested it on is a Quadra 840AV, on 
which it is a little slow, but still very usable provided you don't 
put continuous-tone images on the screen.

Adrian has tested it on an '030, which is obviously much slower but 
reportedly still usable.  I suggest disabling as many encodings as 
you can get away with, which will reduce CPU load somewhat.

One caveat:  I have been unable to figure out how to read the screen 
when it is less than 256 colours.  So you must set the screen to 256 
colours (8 bit) or better to have a usable image.

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Re: ChromiVNC Problems: Applet Not Working

[Jonathan Morton]

>I just installed ChromiVNC under OS 9.2.2, and the applet isn't working.

Could that be because ChromiVNC does not include the Java applet on 
it's own?  It does include a webserver which you can attach the 
applet to.

This *is* explained in the Read Me file that comes with ChromiVNC.

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Re: ChromiVNC Problems: Applet Not Working

[Jonathan Morton]

>On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Jonathan Morton wrote:
>
>>  >I just installed ChromiVNC under OS 9.2.2, and the applet isn't working.
>>
>>  Could that be because ChromiVNC does not include the Java applet on
>>  it's own?  It does include a webserver which you can attach the
>>  applet to.
>>
>>  This *is* explained in the Read Me file that comes with ChromiVNC.
>
>D'oh! I'm used to AT&T VNC. Sorry! Where can I get the applet as a
>separate piece of code? As far as I can tell, it seems to be wrapped up in
>the AT&T app. Is it extractable?

It is a separate file in the Xvnc distribution, so you can get it 
from there.  Bear in mind that you'll have to edit the HTML file to 
remove the "dynamic" portions, since ChromiVNC's webserver doesn't 
yet have any dynamic features.  But maybe someone has already put 
together something useable to save you the effort - wait a day or so 
and see if they pick it up from this thread.

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Re: ChromiVNC Problems: Applet Not Working

[Jonathan Morton]

>  > It is a separate file in the Xvnc distribution, so you can get it
>>  from there.  Bear in mind that you'll have to edit the HTML file to
>>  remove the "dynamic" portions, since ChromiVNC's webserver doesn't
>>  yet have any dynamic features.  But maybe someone has already put
>>  together something useable to save you the effort - wait a day or so
>>  and see if they pick it up from this thread.
>
>I fished the relevant stuff out of Xvnc, compiled it, and put it in the
>directory I specified in the prefs. The applet now loads, but the login
>panel never shows up. What's wrong?

The thing about Java applets is they need a HTML page to give them 
their frame and parameters.  Look at the index.vnc page in the Xvnc 
distribution for the dynamic page which it uses.  Replace the dynamic 
stuff with real parameters that match your setup, and you should be 
set.

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Re: ChromiVNC Problems: Applet Not Working

[Jonathan Morton]

>I see a page with the title I specified, with "applet loading", reloading,
>running, etc. in the status bar. If I use the correct XHTML code I tried
>before, I even see a frame around where the applet goes, droawn at the
>correct size. What I don't see is the buttons or the name and password
>input fields. I'm using IE 5.1 pointed at .

Try using your IP address rather than localhost.  The Mac's internal 
routing for the loopback address can go rather funny.

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