Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches]

As I remember the FXR inverters will rarely connect to any generators
beside very well controlled or inverter type generators. I agree that I
don't think there is any automatic transfer from grid tie to generator
input.

Brad Bassett

On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 3:42 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> It is my understanding that the FXR will not "automatically" switch from
> Grid Input to Gen.
> To my knowledge this is a manual option only.
> I do not recall any way to make this happen automatically. That would have
> been great.
>
> You can however still call for the generator at a low V setting and have
> the generator power an external charger to boost the batteries.
> I think the brand we used to use was IOTA however, I have also seen golf
> cart chargers used.
>
>
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> PureEnergySolar.com 
> SolarChargingStation.com 
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of Jay via RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2024 5:57 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jay 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing
> Off Grid Home
>
> Hi Jeremy
>
> There are two issues I think.
>
> 1 is that the inverter won’t connect.
> And I don’t have an answer why the inverter won’t in sell mode but will in
> gen mode. Maybe the generator is slightly out of the more narrow window for
> grid. I presume you’ve checked hz and volts and they are in spec for grid?
> I know sometimes the frequency control can be slightly variable without a
> load. I’ve had success in the past getting inverters to connect to a
> generator with putting some dumb loads on it. Like incandescent lights or
> small heater.
>
> 2. Maybe it’s a good thing it won’t because if it did connect wouldn’t it
> be possible for the inverter to try to sell to the generator?  If you
> didn’t have to change grid to Gen?
>
> Jay
>
> On Oct 23, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Wrenches,
> We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the
> system hooked up to the utility.
> In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and
> function fine with all the settings set up as* Grid Tied* mode, but it
> does not play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in
> as the AC source.
> We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC
> input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the
> grid fails), automatically.
>
> The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be
> programmed for seperate input modes, via the* Input* *Type* menu. Ive not
> been able to get this accomplished.
>
> When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter
> being from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to
> charge the batteries.
> The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input
> mode to *GEN* from *GRID.*
> This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the
> button push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the
> grid were to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.
>
> With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly
> program the inverter/ MATE3S for this project?
> Equipment onsite:
> Single VFXR3648 inverter
> Two FM60 CCs
> Hub4
> MATE3S
> ATS with Dual Relays 50A
> L.A. Battery bank
>
> Here's how we would like it to work:
> Utility power ON:
> Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle.
> Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.
> Utility Outage:
> ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
> Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
> If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use
> that input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and
> the gen is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the
> inverter.  With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will
> enventually shut off the Gen. Based on voltage.
> Contact me off list if necessary
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> All Solar Inc.
> Penrose, CO
> 719-276-4954
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address

Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy:



Question:  Did you install the ATS as a work-around to the problem
described?



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 23, 2024 7:47 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Jeremy Rodriguez
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off
Grid Home



Wrenches,

We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the
system hooked up to the utility.

In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and
function fine with all the settings set up as* Grid Tied* mode, but it does
not play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as
the AC source.

We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC
input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the
grid fails), automatically.



The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be
programmed for seperate input modes, via the* Input* *Type* menu. Ive not
been able to get this accomplished.



When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter
being from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to
charge the batteries.

The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input
mode to *GEN* from *GRID.*

This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the
button push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the
grid were to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.



With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program
the inverter/ MATE3S for this project?

Equipment onsite:

Single VFXR3648 inverter

Two FM60 CCs

Hub4

MATE3S

ATS with Dual Relays 50A

L.A. Battery bank



Here's how we would like it to work:

Utility power ON:

Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle.
Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.

Utility Outage:

ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.

Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.

If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use
that input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and
the gen is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the
inverter.  With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will
enventually shut off the Gen. Based on voltage.

Contact me off list if necessary





Jeremy Rodriguez

All Solar Inc.

Penrose, CO

719-276-4954
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Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches]

Generac Eco Gen


Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

On Oct 23, 2024, at 9:06 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


What gen set are you using
Fun times

On Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 7:47 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Wrenches,
We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the system 
hooked up to the utility.
In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and 
function fine with all the settings set up as Grid Tied mode, but it does not 
play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as the AC 
source.
We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC 
input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the grid 
fails), automatically.

The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be programmed 
for seperate input modes, via the Input Type menu. Ive not been able to get 
this accomplished.

When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter being 
from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to charge the 
batteries.
The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input mode 
to GEN from GRID.
This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the button 
push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the grid were 
to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.

With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program the 
inverter/ MATE3S for this project?
Equipment onsite:
Single VFXR3648 inverter
Two FM60 CCs
Hub4
MATE3S
ATS with Dual Relays 50A
L.A. Battery bank

Here's how we would like it to work:
Utility power ON:
Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle. 
Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.
Utility Outage:
ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use that 
input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and the gen 
is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the inverter.  
With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will enventually shut 
off the Gen. Based on voltage.
Contact me off list if necessary


Jeremy Rodriguez
All Solar Inc.
Penrose, CO
719-276-4954



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Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches]

We Installed the automatic transfer switch so the inverter AC input could be 
either grid or generator.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

On Oct 24, 2024, at 10:41 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Jeremy:

Question:  Did you install the ATS as a work-around to the problem described?

William Miller

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On Behalf Of Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 7:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Jeremy Rodriguez
Subject: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

Wrenches,
We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the system 
hooked up to the utility.
In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and 
function fine with all the settings set up as Grid Tied mode, but it does not 
play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as the AC 
source.
We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC 
input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the grid 
fails), automatically.

The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be programmed 
for seperate input modes, via the Input Type menu. Ive not been able to get 
this accomplished.

When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter being 
from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to charge the 
batteries.
The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input mode 
to GEN from GRID.
This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the button 
push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the grid were 
to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.

With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program the 
inverter/ MATE3S for this project?
Equipment onsite:
Single VFXR3648 inverter
Two FM60 CCs
Hub4
MATE3S
ATS with Dual Relays 50A
L.A. Battery bank

Here's how we would like it to work:
Utility power ON:
Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle. 
Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.
Utility Outage:
ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use that 
input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and the gen 
is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the inverter.  
With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will enventually shut 
off the Gen. Based on voltage.
Contact me off list if necessary


Jeremy Rodriguez
All Solar Inc.
Penrose, CO
719-276-4954



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Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[chriswatsww--- via RE-wrenches]

Hi Jeremy,

We have a client with 4 of the VFXR3648's in the same situation, GTBB and 
you've described our solution perfectly although we installed a manual transfer 
switch instead of the ATS, so if someone has figured out a better solution we'd 
like to know what it is, thanks.



Chris Worcester
chriswat...@outlook.com
530-448-9692
Sent from my Galaxy



 Original message 
From: Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
Date: 10/24/24 11:11 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: will...@millersolar.com, RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jeremy Rodriguez 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid 
Home

We Installed the automatic transfer switch so the inverter AC input could be 
either grid or generator.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

On Oct 24, 2024, at 10:41 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Jeremy:

Question:  Did you install the ATS as a work-around to the problem described?

William Miller

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On Behalf Of Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 7:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Jeremy Rodriguez
Subject: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

Wrenches,
We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the system 
hooked up to the utility.
In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and 
function fine with all the settings set up as Grid Tied mode, but it does not 
play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as the AC 
source.
We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC 
input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the grid 
fails), automatically.

The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be programmed 
for seperate input modes, via the Input Type menu. Ive not been able to get 
this accomplished.

When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter being 
from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to charge the 
batteries.
The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input mode 
to GEN from GRID.
This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the button 
push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the grid were 
to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.

With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program the 
inverter/ MATE3S for this project?
Equipment onsite:
Single VFXR3648 inverter
Two FM60 CCs
Hub4
MATE3S
ATS with Dual Relays 50A
L.A. Battery bank

Here's how we would like it to work:
Utility power ON:
Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle. 
Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure.
Utility Outage:
ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use that 
input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and the gen 
is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the inverter.  
With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will enventually shut 
off the Gen. Based on voltage.
Contact me off list if necessary


Jeremy Rodriguez
All Solar Inc.
Penrose, CO
719-276-4954



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[RE-wrenches] Sanyo 190s

[Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches]

Dear, all, If you have one or two of these gathering dust, contact me off-line.Thanks a ton!Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICESince 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502www.SolarEnergyOregon.com___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

On Oct 24, 2024, at 4:40 PM, Jay  wrote:That one cell you have a picture of sure looks suspicious to me. Especially given the good IR picture. It looks it’s physically broken, right about where a hard hat would rest while moving it. That level of hot spot can’t be good. There are two kinds of things that can look sorta the same. Snail trails I thought were from a kind of contamination which leaves a trail of micro bubbles. It’s from the assembly process and I think static factors into it. The close up photo sure looks like this to me. The other are micro fractures from all sorts of reasons. Actual damage to the cell which is usually visible. Are there just a few suspicious panels or lots?JayOn Oct 24, 2024, at 10:55 AM, Thomas Hall via RE-wrenches  wrote:








Hello Jon. 
Another thought……Was the site using  the SMA combiner boxes with the
3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10? 
We have had ground faults occur there internally. If it has a green test button inside the combiner box unit (polarity tester) …. replace the combiner with a different manufactures equipment.

I believe the model is called SMA 1000-US-11 String Combiner w/ Disconnect.

 



Thomas Hall  
Solar Specialty Group INC C-33998
dba Specialty Group Electric 
808-854-9539
thomash...@solarspecialtygroup.com
www.solarspecialtygroup.com
Certified Thermographer

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ®
031310-92
 
 



 
 




From:
RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches 
Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:04 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Cc: Jon Dixon 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails


Thanks Bryan,

I do not know the PV connector types for the modules or extension cables 
we have not started working on it. I need to put a plan together for the 
customer first.
Good to know about the Amphenol H4 issues.

Thank You

Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
j...@dixonpowersystems.com

> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 16:44:51 +
> From: Bryan Norkunas 
> To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
>    , "j...@dixonpowersystems.com"
>    
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
> Message-ID:
>    
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Jon,
>
> Do you recall which PV connectors were on the modules and what they used for extension cables?
>
> Around that time, Amphenol H4 connectors had issues due to the plastic housings failing and allowing water into the connections.
>
>
>
> Bryan Norkunas
>
> PV-Cables Inc.
>
> 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
>
> Ferndale CA 95536
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>   [cid:aa320544-f89d-44fc-a3e9-bb468c2d9953]
>
>
>
> [cid:867e1cba-ab13-4a98-9ecf-200189c32b6d] Please print only if necessary.
>
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 recipient, please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.
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> 
> From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> Cc: Jon Dixon 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015 consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This has been going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times
 a year generally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comes back to life.
>
> They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules have snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR views of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when the utility took the IR pictures.
>
> Causes for snail trails that I found:
>
>    *   The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the silver contacts
>    *   The degradation extent of the EVA material
>    *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material
>
> I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro fractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arc faults.
>
> Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?
>
>
> Thanks Jon
>
> --
> Jonathan Dixon
> Dixon Power Systems
> 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
> Lincoln, NE 68521
> 402-467-3240
> j...@dixonpowersystems.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Todd Cory via RE-wrenches]

One of the unfortunate changes from the SW to FX /FXR inverter architecture was 
the elimination of two AC inputs. The whole point of a battery based inverter 
is for backup power, so this becomes a huge issue when a grid tied system has a 
grid outage long enough to necessitate generator charging. 

That is why people either opt for an external Iota style charger, or the famous 
"DT Kludge", which is what I have on my home system for those rare times when I 
need generator charging.

Todd





On Thursday, October 24, 2024 4:55pm, "Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches" 
 said:



As I remember the FXR inverters will rarely connect to any generators beside 
very well controlled or inverter type generators. I agree that I don't think 
there is any automatic transfer from grid tie to generator input. 
Brad Bassett


On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 3:42 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <[ 
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
)> wrote:


It is my understanding that the FXR will not "automatically" switch from Grid 
Input to Gen. 
To my knowledge this is a manual option only.
I do not recall any way to make this happen automatically. That would have been 
great.
You can however still call for the generator at a low V setting and have the 
generator power an external charger to boost the batteries.
I think the brand we used to use was IOTA however, I have also seen golf cart 
chargers used.

Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
[ PureEnergySolar.com ]( http://pureenergysolar.com/ )
[ SolarChargingStation.com ]( http://solarchargingstation.com/ )
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

 The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and 
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
From: RE-wrenches <[ re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org ]( 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org )> on behalf of Jay via 
RE-wrenches <[ re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org ]( 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org )>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 5:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches <[ re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org ]( 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org )>
Cc: Jay <[ jay.pe...@gmail.com ]( mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com )>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid 
Home
 

Hi Jeremy
There are two issues I think. 
1 is that the inverter won’t connect. 
And I don’t have an answer why the inverter won’t in sell mode but will in gen 
mode. Maybe the generator is slightly out of the more narrow window for grid. I 
presume you’ve checked hz and volts and they are in spec for grid?  I know 
sometimes the frequency control can be slightly variable without a load. I’ve 
had success in the past getting inverters to connect to a generator with 
putting some dumb loads on it. Like incandescent lights or small heater. 
2. Maybe it’s a good thing it won’t because if it did connect wouldn’t it be 
possible for the inverter to try to sell to the generator?  If you didn’t have 
to change grid to Gen?
Jay

On Oct 23, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <[ 
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
)> wrote:



Wrenches, 
We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the system 
hooked up to the utility.
In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and 
function fine with all the settings set up as Grid Tied mode, but it does not 
play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as the AC 
source.
We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC 
input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the grid 
fails), automatically. 
The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be programmed 
for seperate input modes, via the Input Type menu. Ive not been able to get 
this accomplished. 
When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter being 
from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to charge the 
batteries. 
The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input mode 
to GEN from GRID.
This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the button 
push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the grid were 
to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.
 
With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program the 
inverter/ MATE3S for this project?   
Equipment onsite:
Single VFXR3648 inverter
Two FM60 CCs
Hub4
MATE3S
ATS with Dual Relays 50A 
L.A. Battery bank
Here's how we would like it to work:
Utility power ON: 
Sell excess power once the batteries have gone thr

Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Jeremy

There are two issues I think. 

1 is that the inverter won’t connect. 
And I don’t have an answer why the inverter won’t in sell mode but will in gen 
mode. Maybe the generator is slightly out of the more narrow window for grid. I 
presume you’ve checked hz and volts and they are in spec for grid?  I know 
sometimes the frequency control can be slightly variable without a load. I’ve 
had success in the past getting inverters to connect to a generator with 
putting some dumb loads on it. Like incandescent lights or small heater. 

2. Maybe it’s a good thing it won’t because if it did connect wouldn’t it be 
possible for the inverter to try to sell to the generator?  If you didn’t have 
to change grid to Gen?

Jay

> On Oct 23, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wrenches, 
> We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the system 
> hooked up to the utility.
> In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell and 
> function fine with all the settings set up as Grid Tied mode, but it does not 
> play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought in as the AC 
> source.
> We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC 
> input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the grid 
> fails), automatically. 
> 
> The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be programmed 
> for seperate input modes, via the Input Type menu. Ive not been able to get 
> this accomplished. 
> 
> When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter 
> being from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to 
> charge the batteries. 
> The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input 
> mode to GEN from GRID.
> This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the 
> button push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the 
> grid were to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.
>  
> With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly program 
> the inverter/ MATE3S for this project?   
> Equipment onsite:
> Single VFXR3648 inverter
> Two FM60 CCs
> Hub4
> MATE3S
> ATS with Dual Relays 50A 
> L.A. Battery bank
> 
> Here's how we would like it to work:
> Utility power ON: 
> Sell excess power once the batteries have gone through the Absorb cycle. 
> Batteries remain full in case of a utility failure. 
> Utility Outage: 
> ATS now feeds Inv AC input via Generator if needed.
> Inverter runs the home as it did , off grid.
> If the battery voltage drops and the AGS is engaged, the inverter will use 
> that input to charge the batteries as usual.  If the grid comes back on and 
> the gen is running, the generator can still run, with no connection to the 
> inverter.  With the grid now charging the battery bank, and the AGS will 
> enventually shut off the Gen. Based on voltage.  
> Contact me off list if necessary
> 
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> All Solar Inc. 
> Penrose, CO
> 719-276-4954
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing Off Grid Home

[John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches]

I have switched to Radians to get back to where we were with SW4048’s.
Also split phase and Optics make a good package.  Heavy and wiring are a
nuisance but reliability has been good and the few issues solved with board
or module swaps.  BUT with Outback in Limbo ?


On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 5:14 PM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> One of the unfortunate changes from the SW to FX /FXR inverter
> architecture was the elimination of two AC inputs. The whole point of a
> battery based inverter is for backup power, so this becomes a huge issue
> when a grid tied system has a grid outage long enough to
> necessitate generator charging.
>
> That is why people either opt for an external Iota style charger, or the
> famous "DT Kludge", which is what I have on my home system for those rare
> times when I need generator charging.
>
> Todd
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 24, 2024 4:55pm, "Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches" <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> said:
>
> As I remember the FXR inverters will rarely connect to any generators
> beside very well controlled or inverter type generators. I agree that I
> don't think there is any automatic transfer from grid tie to generator
> input.
> Brad Bassett
>
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 3:42 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> It is my understanding that the FXR will not "automatically" switch from
>> Grid Input to Gen.
>> To my knowledge this is a manual option only.
>> I do not recall any way to make this happen automatically. That would
>> have been great.
>> You can however still call for the generator at a low V setting and have
>> the generator power an external charger to boost the batteries.
>> I think the brand we used to use was IOTA however, I have also seen golf
>> cart chargers used.
>> Wayne Irwin
>> President
>> License #CVC56695
>> State Licensed Solar Contractor
>> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
>> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
>> PureEnergySolar.com 
>> SolarChargingStation.com 
>> 352 377-6527 Office
>> 352 336-3299 Fax
>>
>>
>> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>>
>> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
>> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
>> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
>> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>> --
>> *From:* RE-wrenches  on
>> behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2024 5:57 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> *Cc:* Jay 
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] New Outback FXR Series as GTGBB on existing
>> Off Grid Home
>>
>> Hi Jeremy
>> There are two issues I think.
>> 1 is that the inverter won’t connect.
>> And I don’t have an answer why the inverter won’t in sell mode but will
>> in gen mode. Maybe the generator is slightly out of the more narrow window
>> for grid. I presume you’ve checked hz and volts and they are in spec for
>> grid?  I know sometimes the frequency control can be slightly variable
>> without a load. I’ve had success in the past getting inverters to connect
>> to a generator with putting some dumb loads on it. Like incandescent lights
>> or small heater.
>> 2. Maybe it’s a good thing it won’t because if it did connect wouldn’t it
>> be possible for the inverter to try to sell to the generator?  If you
>> didn’t have to change grid to Gen?
>> Jay
>>
>> On Oct 23, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Wrenches,
>> We have a client that has brought utility power in and we now have the
>> system hooked up to the utility.
>> In setting the system up, I've experienced that the inverter will sell
>> and function fine with all the settings set up as* Grid Tied* mode, but
>> it does not play nice when the grid is gone , and the Generator is brought
>> in as the AC source.
>> We have installed an external transfer switch to switch the inverters' AC
>> input, from either the utility or the existing backup generator ( if the
>> grid fails), automatically.
>> The manual states that the inverter's two input selections can be
>> programmed for seperate input modes, via the* Input* *Type* menu. Ive
>> not been able to get this accomplished.
>> When simulating a grid outage, thus changing the AC input to the inverter
>> being from the Generator, the inverter will not synch to the AC power to
>> charge the batteries.
>> The only way that I can get the inverter to synch, is to switch the input
>> mode to *GEN* from *GRID.*
>> This is not ideal since the client would need to be present to make the
>> button push, even though the generator will be started automatically if the
>> grid were to go down (hopefully) , just as it did before.
>>
>> With no way to contact Outback , can someone advise how to properly
>> program the inverter/ MATE