Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

On Oct 24, 2024, at 4:40 PM, Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:  That one cell you have a picture of sure looks suspicious to me. Especially given the good IR picture.  It looks it’s physically broken, right about where a hard hat would rest while moving it.  That level of hot spot can’t be good.  There are two kinds of things that can look sorta the same. Snail trails I thought were from a kind of contamination which leaves a trail of micro bubbles. It’s from the assembly process and I think static factors into it. The close up photo sure looks like this to me.  The other are micro fractures from all sorts of reasons. Actual damage to the cell which is usually visible.  Are there just a few suspicious panels or lots? Jay On Oct 24, 2024, at 10:55 AM, Thomas Hall via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:   Hello Jon. Another thought……Was the site using  the SMA combiner boxes with the 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10? We have had ground faults occur there internally. If it has a green test button inside the combiner box unit (polarity tester) …. replace the combiner with a different manufactures equipment. I believe the model is called SMA 1000-US-11 String Combiner w/ Disconnect.   Thomas Hall   Solar Specialty Group INC C-33998 dba Specialty Group Electric  808-854-9539 thomash...@solarspecialtygroup.com www.solarspecialtygroup.com Certified Thermographer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ® 031310-92         From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:04 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Cc: Jon Dixon <j...@dixonpowersystems.com> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails Thanks Bryan, I do not know the PV connector types for the modules or extension cables we have not started working on it. I need to put a plan together for the customer first. Good to know about the Amphenol H4 issues. Thank You Jonathan Dixon Dixon Power Systems 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1 Lincoln, NE 68521 402-467-3240 j...@dixonpowersystems.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 16:44:51 +0000 > From: Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com> > To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" >        <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>, "j...@dixonpowersystems.com" >        <j...@dixonpowersystems.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails > Message-ID: >        <dm6pr06mb509799a96435ce8318649e11e2...@dm6pr06mb5097.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> >        > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Jon, > > Do you recall which PV connectors were on the modules and what they used for extension cables? > > Around that time, Amphenol H4 connectors had issues due to the plastic housings failing and allowing water into the connections. > > > > Bryan Norkunas > > PV-Cables Inc. > > 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D > > Ferndale CA 95536 > > (707) 923-3000 office > > www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/> > >   [cid:aa320544-f89d-44fc-a3e9-bb468c2d9953] > > > > [cid:867e1cba-ab13-4a98-9ecf-200189c32b6d]     Please print only if necessary. > > > > NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > ________________________________ > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Cc: Jon Dixon <j...@dixonpowersystems.com> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails > > Hello All, > > I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015 consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This has been going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times a year generally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comes back to life. > > They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules have snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR views of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when the utility took the IR pictures. > > Causes for snail trails that I found: > >    *   The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the silver contacts >    *   The degradation extent of the EVA material >    *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material > > I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro fractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arc faults. > > Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also? > > > Thanks Jon > > -- > Jonathan Dixon > Dixon Power Systems > 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1 > Lincoln, NE 68521 > 402-467-3240 > j...@dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:j...@dixonpowersystems.com> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0001.htm> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Outlook-znsett2t.png > Type: image/png > Size: 78625 bytes > Desc: Outlook-znsett2t.png > URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0002.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Outlook-jqwvacbt.png > Type: image/png > Size: 2978 bytes > Desc: Outlook-jqwvacbt.png > URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0003.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:09:53 +0000 > From: Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com> > To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" >        <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>, "j...@dixonpowersystems.com" >        <j...@dixonpowersystems.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails > Message-ID: >        <dm6pr06mb50977334c1aa938f24f80930e2...@dm6pr06mb5097.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> >        > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Looking at the pictures again, I wonder if there might be a pinhole in the back lamination that is allowing water into the module. > > > > > Bryan Norkunas > > PV-Cables Inc. > > 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D > > Ferndale CA 95536 > > (707) 923-3000 office > > www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/> > >   [cid:8b840384-c5f3-42a6-b643-c70a0c8359f7] > > > > [cid:359044c7-87e0-453e-8b12-d03863f07a98]     Please print only if necessary. > > > > NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > ________________________________ > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Cc: Jon Dixon <j...@dixonpowersystems.com> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails > > Hello All, > > I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015 consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This has been going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times a year generally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comes back to life. > > They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules have snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR views of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when the utility took the IR pictures. > > Causes for snail trails that I found: > >    *   The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the silver contacts >    *   The degradation extent of the EVA material >    *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material > > I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro fractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arc faults. > > Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also? > > > Thanks Jon > > -- > Jonathan Dixon > Dixon Power Systems > 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1 > Lincoln, NE 68521 > 402-467-3240 > j...@dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:j...@dixonpowersystems.com> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment.htm> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Outlook-wabazobn.png > Type: image/png > Size: 78625 bytes > Desc: Outlook-wabazobn.png > URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Outlook-qs0datbf.png > Type: image/png > Size: 2978 bytes > Desc: Outlook-qs0datbf.png > URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment-0001.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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