Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 31)

2012-04-02 Thread Cameron Laird
I pine for the fjords.

And it's time to bring "Python-URL!" to a close.  "Python-URL!", which
Jean-Claude Wippler and I appear to have launched in 1998, has reached
the end of its utility.  We still have many loyal and enthusiastic
readers--one subscription request arrived within the last day, in
fact--and certainly much writing turns up every week that *deserves*
the spotlight "Python-URL!" has shone in the past.

However, the Python world has changed a great deal over the last
fourteen years.  There are many, MANY other ways for those with an
interest in Python to nourish themselves, and Python itself has grown
and "normalized" so much that it no longer fits particularly well in
the "Python-URL!" format.  Enjoy "Mouse vs. Python" http://www.blog.pythonlibrary.org/ >, the Python areas of DZone,
Reddit, developerWorks, stackoverflow, and so on.

For your reference, I append below the most-recent-but-not-
particularly-
current version of "Python-URL!"'s coda of related readings.

That is all.



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
http://planet.python.org
But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
http://planet.scipy.org
And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
for the numerically-inclined:
http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
team:
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider
-blog.html

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
http://pyfound.blogspot.com

The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
http://pythonpapers.org/

Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
Updates appear more-than-weekly:
http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.c
omp.python.devel&sort=date

nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
enabled:
http://www.nullege.com

Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
hyperlinks retains a few gems.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
Watch this space for links to them.

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
For more, see:
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference
commentary.
It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
http://del.icio.us/tag/python

At least one of the Python magazines is explicitly multilingual:
http

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 31)

2012-04-02 Thread Cameron Laird
I pine for the fjords.

And it's time to bring "Python-URL!" to a close.  "Python-URL!", which
Jean-Claude Wippler and I appear to have launched in 1998, has reached
the end of its utility.  We still have many loyal and enthusiastic
readers--one subscription request arrived within the last day, in
fact--and certainly much writing turns up every week that *deserves*
the spotlight "Python-URL!" has shone in the past.

However, the Python world has changed a great deal over the last
fourteen years.  There are many, MANY other ways for those with an
interest in Python to nourish themselves, and Python itself has grown
and "normalized" so much that it no longer fits particularly well in
the "Python-URL!" format.  Enjoy "Mouse vs. Python" http://www.blog.pythonlibrary.org/ >, the Python areas of DZone,
Reddit, developerWorks, stackoverflow, and so on.

For your reference, I append below the most-recent-but-not-
particularly-
current version of "Python-URL!"'s coda of related readings.

That is all.



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
http://planet.python.org
But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
http://planet.scipy.org
And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
for the numerically-inclined:
http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
team:
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider
-blog.html

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
http://pyfound.blogspot.com

The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
http://pythonpapers.org/

Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
Updates appear more-than-weekly:
http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.c
omp.python.devel&sort=date

nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
enabled:
http://www.nullege.com

Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
hyperlinks retains a few gems.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
Watch this space for links to them.

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
For more, see:
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference
commentary.
It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
http://del.icio.us/tag/python

At least one of the Python magazines is explicitly multilingual:
http

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jun 7)

2011-06-07 Thread Cameron Laird
[Drafted by Gabriel Genellina.]

QOTW:  "'Reminds me of the catch-phrase from the first Pirates of the
Caribbean  movie: 'It's more of a guideline than a rule.'" - Tim
Roberts,
2011-05-27, on the "mutator-methods-return-None"


   Announcing two maintenance releases (including security fixes):
2.5.6
   and 2.6.7 and two pre-final ones: 2.7.2rc1 and 3.1.4rc1:
   http://www.python.org/news/

   How compatible are 2.x vs. 3.x?  and what does "compatible" mean
   exactly?  Is it something like "American English" vs. "British
English"?
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/1b0e4fb6785449ae/
   Raymond Hettinger on how to use super() correctly:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/1b78f365bccd1275/
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/c87b2cb8bda10705/

   Make sure you read these anecdotes from Guido's recent life with
Python:
   http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/2011/06/depth-and-breadth-of-python.html

   Class decorators, multiple inheritance, and super():
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b5839e91ac06f9cf/

   The memoize pattern revisited:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/ca38638b080ba973/

   A long thread: NaN, IEEE-754 and its roots, the importance of such
   a standard,  and why Python should follow it or not:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/73161a5e9c561db8/

   How to split a generator function in logical parts (and still have
   a generator):
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/73ca39d4a280f270/

   How do alternative implementations handle concurrency without a
GIL:
   http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/601913/

   Regular expressions or string methods: when to use them:
   http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/602284/

   A horrible function as an example how *not* to write code:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/c7753efc88399b5f/
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/eda74e73fd7f53e7/

   Using Python (and free software in general) in school notebooks:
   http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/602126/
   A code review: commenting on some posted script style and behavior:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4f379b9c09edab73/

   The scope of function parameters; names and unnamed objects:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/daac8ef71631dbd0/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jun 14)

2011-06-14 Thread Cameron Laird
[Originally drafted by Gabriel Genellina.]

QOTW: "Well, it's incompatible with the Python compiler I keep in my
head. Have
these developers no consideration for backward-thinking-
compatibility?"
   (Ben Finney, 2011-06-10, on certain old but not-so-obvious change)


   Python versions 2.7.2 and 3.1.4 (final) have been released!
   http://www.python.org/news/

   Formatting numbers with dynamic width and padding:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/52810ad96a5e759b/

   How good is security via hashing?
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/2bfe26882f3de56f/

   Is it possible to omit the parentheses when writing a decorator
accepting
   optional arguments?
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/3adbb4ec23b38b31/

   Inheriting docstrings
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/af47222fd9188506/

   virtualenv has extremely powerful capabilities.  How will they
   reach Python?
   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-June/111903.html

   The "regular expressions" culture:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4df6669917ef2bfd/

   How and when metaclasses are actually used:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a48f5efafc287c68/

   Unicode handling when stdout is not a tty:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/293dab4db766b68a/
   http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/692355

   The difference between dot and bracket notation:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e0ea54b326d14c6e/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space for links to them.

   Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
   http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
   For more, see:
   http://www.syndic8

Re: Looking PDF module

2011-06-24 Thread Cameron Laird
On Jun 24, 6:45 am, "neil.suffi...@gmail.com"
 wrote:
> You might also want to have a look at Pisa (http://www.xhtml2pdf.com/
> ) . It's based on reportlab but might suit you better.

There's more to the story.  As with many things, the answer is, "it
depends".
In this case, there are so many variables that I probably should write
up an
article outlining the pertinent ones ...

Hegedüs Ervin, it's quite likely that ReportLab will be a good
technical fit
for you.  Are you in a position to pay licensing fees for advanced
features?
Do you have any requirements to *merge* PDF instances?  How stringent
are your
performance requirements?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 10)

2011-08-10 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "If an elegant solution doesn't occur to me right away, then I
first
compose the most obvious solution I can think of. Finally, I refactor
it
until elegance is either achieved or imagined." - Neil Cerutti,
2011-07-28


   What is the real purpose of __all__?
   http://old.nabble.com/__all__-td32227593.html

   __set__ does not appear to work for class attributes:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/72a346299a7eacf5/

   Talking of class attributes: how to set up a docstring for them?
   http://old.nabble.com/Docstrings-and-class-Attributes-td32218039.html

   Using zip to separate a list of pairs into two lists:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/98008a2c63b002fa/

   Detecting object differences in order to propagate the changes over
   a network:
   http://old.nabble.com/Object-Diffs-ts32221405.html

   modules, classes, and functions: all appear to be different ways to
   execute a block of code; similarities and differences
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/79bc8b7d5267338a/

   Replace all references to one object with another, is it possible?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/32b67545254bdf37/

   Ensure certain attributes, even if writable and modifiable,
maintain
   certain invariants:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/d23a48c858b2cb75/

Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space for links to them.

   Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
   http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
   For more, see:
   http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
   The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
   SourceForge reincarnation.
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=54

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 10)

2011-08-10 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "If an elegant solution doesn't occur to me right away, then I
first
compose the most obvious solution I can think of. Finally, I refactor
it
until elegance is either achieved or imagined." - Neil Cerutti,
2011-07-28


   What is the real purpose of __all__?
   http://old.nabble.com/__all__-td32227593.html

   __set__ does not appear to work for class attributes:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/72a346299a7eacf5/

   Talking of class attributes: how to set up a docstring for them?
   http://old.nabble.com/Docstrings-and-class-Attributes-td32218039.html

   Using zip to separate a list of pairs into two lists:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/98008a2c63b002fa/

   Detecting object differences in order to propagate the changes over
   a network:
   http://old.nabble.com/Object-Diffs-ts32221405.html

   modules, classes, and functions: all appear to be different ways to
   execute a block of code; similarities and differences
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/79bc8b7d5267338a/

   Replace all references to one object with another, is it possible?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/32b67545254bdf37/

   Ensure certain attributes, even if writable and modifiable,
maintain
   certain invariants:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/d23a48c858b2cb75/

Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space for links to them.

   Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
   http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
   For more, see:
   http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
   The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
   SourceForge reincarnation.
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=54

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 25)

2011-08-25 Thread Cameron Laird
[Original draft by Gabriel Genellina.]

QOTW:  "Python is a programming language, not an ice cream shop." -
Steven
D'Aprano, 2011-08-10, on providing the language with just "more
choices"


   Comparing the relative speed of `i += 1` and `i = i + 1`
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db68a23685eb03a9/

   Efficiently split and process a large string:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f9122961559e747b/

   Fastest way to do string concatenation:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f65e05cd3a230290/

   An unexpected interaction between function scope and class
namespace:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/9c4435d56fdec152/

   The GIL, once again:
   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-August/112813.html

   Three language proposals:
   allow line breaks at operators (very long thread!):
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a80ffc70aeea2116/
   repeat the right hand side value of assignment statements, as
needed:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6cf460dc9d6262d1/
   issue warnings when builtin names are hidden:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1b2dd8552aabf033/

   How to generate and send mails: a step by step tutorial
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/e0793c1007361398/

   Best practices when dealing with unknown exceptions:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d8da925e6fa03ec6/

   When using extended slicing, behavior of negative stop values is
not fully
   intuitive:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/29193779abef5bfb/

   It's not easy to check a folder for write access on Windows:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/122a47fce5571322/

   Advice on how long a function should be:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/97076160ebf0f392/

   It is relatively easy to confuse the import machinery and make
import fail:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d3199d1e000b135d/

   Non-local variables and exec/eval: a clarification
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/9f46a4b59f525f59/

   An original idea: pure-python templates using the AST
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/827f4345d4ad5672/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://w

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Mar 23)

2011-03-23 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "So far as I know, that actually just means that the test suite
is
insufficient." - Peter Seebach, when an application passes all its
tests
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/29aff9595bb0eac0


Administrative note:  it's been a while--since the end of October
2010,
in fact; "Python-URL!" has been dormant all that time.  It looks as
though
we're re-activating now, though, and the next month should make
apparent
whether we've returned to our roughly-weekly schedule.  A few minor
structural changes are afoot; likely to be of broadest interest is
that
"twits" can now follow "Python-URL!" on http://twitter.com/Phaseit
>.


   PyCon2011 had IDE news that made the trade press:
 
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Microsoft-Launches-Python-Tools-for-Visual-Studio-Beta-638994/?kc=EWKNLITA03152011STR3

   Kirby Urner reflects on the virtues of our built-in battery tester:
   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2011-February/010179.html

   regex is important.  It's also widely mis-understood, and often
   results in little more than frustration.  This conversation about
   regex's special characters ends happily:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/e8ea8cc833aebac2

   While file extensions are among the many topics Python has handled
   deftly for over two decades now, the best handling continues to
   update occasionally:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6b166a07312c2c12



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
   marvelous daily python url
http://www.pythonware.com/daily

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/
   The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
   http://pythonmagazine.com

   Readers have recommended the "Planet" site:
   http://planet.python.org

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   Python FAQTS
   http://python.faqts.com/

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space for links to them.

   SciPyTip is a high-quality daily (!) tip for the numerically-
   inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
   http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
   For more, see:
   http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
   The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
   SourceForge reincarnation.
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
   http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

 

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Apr 2)

2011-04-02 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "Let us cease to nourish those fabled ones who dwell under
bridges." -
Tom Zych
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/c1052c962becfc26


   Look for "Python Insider" below.  Then read through everything
there.
   You'll want to know about this one.

   Once again, the PSF sponsors GSoC projects (and, as has become
   traditional, "Python-URL!" is again a week late in publicizing the
   fact):
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/google-summer-of-code-call-for-projects.html
   Projects range from Mailman to Web frameworks to Wikis ... Get
   your applications in THIS WEEK.

   An important recurring topic (particularly challenging with Win*,
   apparently):  communication with subprocess-es:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/66084de9de56d1f4
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/01e916d35e2da5b3

   A podcast on the Cython project.  Note this is *far* from the first
   C-Python alloy:
   http://inscight.org/2011/03/31/episode_/

   Another well-packaged non-first:  interactive Python interpretation
   through the Web:
   http://zodb.ws/

   You'll like PyMOTW below.  In the same vein:
   http://blog.doughellmann.com/2011/03/pycon-slides-online.html

   Warm-up alphabetic exercises for localization work:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/93ae5c73030658c7

   Check out the features of Wing IDE 4.0.1:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/5ba1e98f4b258821



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/
   The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
   http://pythonmagazine.com

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   Python FAQTS
   http://python.faqts.com/

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space for links to them.

   Among several Python-oriented 

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Apr 9)

2011-04-09 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  [You'll have to see it for yourself:  !Viva 2.7.1!]
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/8d79c5ee3913f82d


   "De-briefing" is characteristically something we do too little;
   there's a LOT of value in systematic examination of what we've
   experienced.  Unladen Swallow presents a particular instance:
   while the software appears to be at the end of its life, how it
   reached that has much to teach us.  Those with an interest in
   PyPy, LLVM, ... will also want to read Reid Kleckner's important
   retrospective:
   http://qinsb.blogspot.com/2011/03/unladen-swallow-retrospective.html

   SciPy's important; Sage is important; put 'em together, along with
   IPython progress, a "gorgeous" venue, numpy involvement, and so on,
   and good story results:
   http://blog.fperez.org/2011/03/ipython-and-scientific-python-go-to.html

   Should you care about Twisted 11.0?
   http://labs.twistedmatrix.com/2011/04/twisted-1100-released.html

   Matthew Wilkes and David Glick's zodb.ws is even better--more
broadly
   useful and instructive--than I first realized:
   http://bit.ly/eqEijV

   Arrange brain transfer:  "Raymond Hettinger and @dabeaz join forces
to
   create what might be the most ultimate introductory Python course":
   http://bit.ly/ct292a

   Python on iPad?  Of course!
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6910f30b1cd3f2c9

   COW is important to understand clearly:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1df510595483b12f

   True expertise with a control structure comes out when exceptions
arise:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/81711eebf8e860da



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   Python FAQTS
   http://python.faqts.com/

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in prep

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Apr 21)

2011-04-21 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "Python is a pragmatic language, so all the rules come pre-
broken." - Mel
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/208face4a8e00062


   Look!  In the sky!  It's a SciPy demonstration!  It's a business!
   No, it's ForecastWatch:
http://goo.gl/AvzqZ

EuroPython 2011:  Firenze, 20-26 June 2011:
http://ep2011.europython.eu/

Python Software Foundation is collecting for a special project:
http://tinyurl.com/PSF-donation

   Jesse Noller explains the PSF:
   http://bit.ly/e1j7JE

   Do you *realize* how much you get with Plone, for free?
   http://goo.gl/fb/KRodb
   [Django and many other Python outposts also are wonderful, in
   their own ways, of course.]



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   Python FAQTS
   http://python.faqts.com/

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space for links to them.

   Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
   http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
   For more, see:
   http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
   The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
   SourceForge reincarnation.
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
   http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

   del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference
commentary.
   It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
   http://del.icio.us/tag/python

   At least one of the Python magazines is explicitly multilingual:
   http://www.python.org/ar/

   PythonWare complemented the digest you're reading with the
   marvelous daily python url.  While it's now ... dormant, it still
   has plenty of interesting reading.
http://www.pythonware.com/daily

   Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
   
http://w

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (May 10)

2011-05-10 Thread Cameron Laird
[This content provided by Gabriel Genellina, despite what the "From:"
line says.]

QOTW:  "Often, the cleverness of people is inversely proportional to
the
amount of CPU power and RAM that they have in their computer.

Unfortunately, the difficulty in debugging and maintaining code is
often
directly proportional to the cleverness exhibited by the original
programmer." - Irmen de Jong and Grant Edwards
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/58559ead6dc82448


   Looking for "The Coolest Python Recipe of All Times":
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/141fdde77caab932

   A nice and clever probabilistic data structure:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/58559ead6dc82448

   Development tools and best practices (continued from previous
week):
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/836537e6c25cf027

   Things to be aware of when using dictionary views:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b9c6ded7522e7425

   Python3 and absolute/relative imports:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/9470dbdacc138709

   Another gotcha when using import with packages:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/961a90219a61e19d

   Fibonacci, recursion, and the 'P' conspiracy theory:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b713b14e3e0d9872

   The preferred way for string formatting:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f0cd2717ffe13560

   Checking if a list is empty - and how to think "the Python way":
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/d36dcd2e2e175d1e

   Classics never die: What other languages use the same data model as
Python?
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4b8b0e06a2d5cfcc



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   Python FAQTS
   http://python.faqts.com/

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (May 18)

2011-05-18 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "When did we come to the idea that people should be able to
program in
a language without actually learning it?  The fact that Python comes
so close
to that possibility is nothing short of revolutionary.  I suppose one
day a
reasoning android will be able to sit down at the terminal of a star
ship
computer and ask simple questions while making random hand movements
across a
screen, but for now I am afraid that programmers still have to learn
programming." - D'Arcy J.M. Cain - 2011-05-11
   http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/690140


   Fast way to convert a set into a list:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a3c72619c1e867e3/

   'Still time to submit a proposal to PyCon India 2011:
   
http://pycon.blogspot.com/2011/05/pycon-india-2011-call-for-proposals.html

   How to make sure equal objects are unique:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a8889b7a327756dd/

   generator.send() explained:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/953c8f1f8a5f73ed/

   "object of different types never compare equal", a documentation
bug:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6ceb3a40dc263f25/

   Ofuscating code: not a good idea
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f887168ca476618f/

   Summer pyGames Registration opens:
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/05/summer-pygames-registration-open.html

   The proper way to handle errors:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/9c6a47de6bf8b352/
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/79c38e653587d4a/

   A long thread, now discussing an O(log n) algorithm for computing
the
   Fibonacci sequence:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b713b14e3e0d9872/e9e64fa9a0348ad8?lnk=gst#e9e64fa9a0348ad8

   Implementing a multi-dimensional array:  a short but insightful
response
   from Robert Kern:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f20a6522369d2bbe/

   SciPy 2011, Austin, Texas, 11-16 July 2011:
   http://conference.scipy.org/scipy2011/index.php

   Unicode for dummies :-) :
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/23d8592a9170e26e/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands

Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (May 26)

2011-05-26 Thread Cameron Laird
[This edition drafted by Gabriel Genellina.]

QOTW:  "They did a study once to determine the best tool for
development.  Turns
out that the most productive tool was generally the one that the user
believed was
the most productive.  In hindsight I think that that was rather
obvious." - D'Arcy
J.M. Cain, 2011-05-24

   Python 2.6.7 release candidate 2 now available:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/ebbd57431bb084b2/

   Amazing logic: and becomes or and or becomes and
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b13e786438a609dd/

   Equal objects must have equal hashes - but how strong is that
requirement?
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f23f72cf633892f9/

   Do secure systems exist?
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f887168ca476618f/7503714d82b1789b?#7503714d82b1789b

   os.access() returns totally useless results on Windows, always has,
and nobody
   cares:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/aa3d9b21c77fa7d7/

   Is this PAAS Python mind-blowingly important, or pointless, or a
mix of the two?
   http://www.activestate.com/cloud

   contextlib.nested() is deprecated - and this example shows why a
custom
   implementation is hard to write well:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/d6b090b7fd4a92c6/

   Why one startup chose Python for development:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/17dca3bf467c9001/

   And more reasons another developer chose it:
   
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/17dca3bf467c9001/83a7be235c113dac?#83a7be235c113dac

   And now, things people do *not* like about Python:
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fff2826d44ea336/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away
in
these pages:

   Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
   center of Pythonia
   http://www.python.org
   Notice especially the master FAQ
   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

   Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
   http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

   Planet Python:  you want to visit there:
   http://planet.python.org
   But don't confuse it with Planet SciPy:
   http://planet.scipy.org
   And don't confuse *that* with SciPyTip, a high-quality daily (!)
tip
   for the numerically-inclined:
   http://twitter.com/SciPyTip

   Python Insider is the official blog of the Python core development
   team:
   
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2011/03/python-dev-launches-python-insider-blog.html

   The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
   Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
   responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
   http://www.python.org/psf/
   Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
   http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
   Keep up with the PSF at "Python Software Foundation News":
   http://pyfound.blogspot.com

   The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python
enthusiasts":
   http://pythonpapers.org/

   Doug Hellman's "Module of the week" is essential reading:
   http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/

   comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
   sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

   Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
   Updates appear more-than-weekly:
   http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

   The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
   http://www.python.org/pypi/

   Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
   mailing lists
   http://www.python.org/sigs/

   Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
   match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
   subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
   http://www.pythonology.com/success

   The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
   report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions.
   
http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

   nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the
intelligence
   to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
   appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
   enabled:
   http://www.nullege.com

   Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
   hyperlinks retains a few gems.
   http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

   The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
   interesting recipes:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

   Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
   Watch this space fo

Re: how to get any available port

2005-10-04 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Here's how it behaved over several runs:
>$ python soc.py 
>('0.0.0.0', 34205)
>$ python soc.py 
>('0.0.0.0', 34206)
>$ python soc.py 
>('0.0.0.0', 34207)
>
>I don't know for sure whether this is standard behavior for sockets, or whether
>it's a special behavior of linux.
.
.
.
It is standard behavior for sockets.  To my surprise, I haven't
(yet) found an RFC that specifies it, but the behavior has a deep
and wide history--even Microsoft sockets respect the convention.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: New project coming up...stay with Python, or go with a dot net language??? Your thoughts please!

2005-10-04 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, spiffo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>I am a corporate developer, working for a single company. Got a new project
>coming up and wondering if I should stay with Python for this new, fairly
>large project, are jump back on the 'safe' M$ bandwagon using a dot net
>language? Cross platform is NOT an issue, but COMPLETE control/compatability
.
.
.
While I know others in this thread have already mentioned the
fact somewhat obliquely, I'll make it explicit:  Python IS "a
dot net language" http://ironpython.com/ >.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Can Python replace TCL/Expect

2005-10-06 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Robert Kern  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I'm learning Python. I don't know whether Python can do something like
>> Expect can do. If yes, please show me how to do it.
>> I want to do something automatically: open connection to a ftp server,
>> get the welcome message on the screen (not in the packet). I can do it
>> easily with Expect but I still don't have any idea with Python.
>> If possible, can you introduce me some book or website that I can get
>> infor about automation programming with Python
>
>You'll probably want to take a look at pexpect:
>
>  http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
.
.
.
1.  Yes.
2.  While Pexpect indeed "can do something like Expect", 
it does NOT have all the facilities and polish of the
latter.
3.  But very, VERY few of Expect's users are aware of more
than a handful of Expect's functions, let alone use them,
so it's fair to say that Pexpect does everything Expect
does, within the realm of ordinary use.
4.  But it sort-of doesn't matter anyway, because, if the
goal is (as appears in this case) to work with ftp, 
there are better ways to work, anyway http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.unix.programmer/ftp_automation.html >
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/ftp-handler-objects.html >.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Can Python replace TCL/Expect

2005-10-06 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jorgen Grahn  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>It depends. I do not feel /that/ advanced, but I've been bitten by pexpect's
>limitations several times in several places.
>
>... which puts me in a weird position ;-) I /loathe/ the Tcl language, but I
>have to admit that its expect functionality is far superior to Python's.
.
.
.
'Salright.  There are Tcl programmers who feel the same way,
for example, about Python and its object orientation.

On to more constructive matters:  what are you doing about
Pexpect's limitations?  Have the maintainers responded to you
when you write?  Are you tempted to compose enhancements for
yourself?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 17)

2005-10-17 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "If you don't have the time to be paranoid, try taking the time to
straighten out identity theft." -- K. G. Schneider

"The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
instances of any type is generally to call that type)." -- Alex Martelli


What code is good to read?  The Standard Library.  The Indexed
Packages.  The Cheese Shop.  Bit Torrent.  Much else--that is,
far more than any one person can digest:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/da095d94c77fe2c7/

Windows demands a developer rely on poorly-documented tricks
in order to be productive.  What *are* those tricks?  IPython,
autoit, ...:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3c6f3201a61d41f0/

Most Python programmers live happily without thought of what
codecs do for them.  If you're among the few for whom charmap
performance is an issue, though, you'll be thankful to Tony
Nelson for this Fastcharmap contribution:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/481fda74e4c69dc/

Do you want to iterate over the same iterable multiple times?
There's help (itertool's tee(), for example) for your sort:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/77def05340a81dec/

Jeff Epler and Peter Otten explain the very first step--often
the most puzzling one--in working with other-than-English texts:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5b9e46bbc66e19f8/

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ee3feda62cfe42cd/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 17)

2005-10-17 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "If you don't have the time to be paranoid, try taking the time to
straighten out identity theft." -- K. G. Schneider

"The best way to make classes on the fly is generally to call the
metaclass with suitable parameters (just like, the best way to make
instances of any type is generally to call that type)." -- Alex Martelli


What code is good to read?  The Standard Library.  The Indexed
Packages.  The Cheese Shop.  Bit Torrent.  Much else--that is,
far more than any one person can digest:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/da095d94c77fe2c7/

Windows demands a developer rely on poorly-documented tricks
in order to be productive.  What *are* those tricks?  IPython,
autoit, ...:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3c6f3201a61d41f0/

Most Python programmers live happily without thought of what
codecs do for them.  If you're among the few for whom charmap
performance is an issue, though, you'll be thankful to Tony
Nelson for this Fastcharmap contribution:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/481fda74e4c69dc/

Do you want to iterate over the same iterable multiple times?
There's help (itertool's tee(), for example) for your sort:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/77def05340a81dec/

Jeff Epler and Peter Otten explain the very first step--often
the most puzzling one--in working with other-than-English texts:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5b9e46bbc66e19f8/

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ee3feda62cfe42cd/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php

Re: Python vs Ruby

2005-10-20 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bruno modulix  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bryan wrote:
>> Amol Vaidya wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi. I am interested in learning a new programming language, and have
>>> been debating whether to learn Ruby or Python. 
>(snip)
>> 
>> why don't you do what i did?  download ruby and spend a day or two
>> reading "programming ruby" from www.ruby-lang.org/en.  the download
>> python and spend a day or two reading the python tuturial from
>> www.python.org.
>
>Or better: DiveIntoPython
.
.
.
You've already been told all the essentials:  that they're similar,
that specific Web pages usefully contrast them, that *Dive into Python*
and so on are worth reading, ...  I want to emphasize particularly the
wisdom of trying the two for yourself, to see how each fits your own 
tastes.  This is practical advice; it truly is possible to have a 
meaningful experience with Python and/or Ruby over the course of a day.
These languages are FAR more "light-weight" than, for example, C++, 
which typically requires weeks or months of practice before one truly
"gets it".  While you won't know everything about, say, Ruby, in the
first four hours, you *will* be able to write programs independently,
and you'll have a "feel" for how the language works as a whole.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 26)

2005-10-25 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
of what's obvious and what isn't." -- Grant Edwards

"... windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
people too." -- James Stroud


"The Widget Construction Kit (WCK) is an extension API that allows
you to implement custom widgets in pure Python."  A typical recent
enhancemennt is slightly more efficient anti-aliased drawing under
Windows:
http://online.effbot.org/2005_10_01_archive.htm#20051022 

Mike Meyer and others demonstrate the paranoia and propensity to
abstraction of the experienced when thinking about something as
simple as replacement of one string for another:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/98f0d93332748af9/

Similarly, Bengt Richter illustrates that "a month" is a far 
more complicated idea than first appears:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/68b08f36ca516aa2/

"The deadline for PyCon 2006 submissions is now only a week away."
http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp

Is there a good way to manage Python installations on multiple
(Windows) hosts?  There are several:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1343f89416f8f783/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
 
The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
welcome submission of material that 

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 26)

2005-10-26 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "Using Unix for 20+ years probably warps one's perception
of what's obvious and what isn't." -- Grant Edwards

"... windoze users--despite their unfortunate ignorance, they are
people too." -- James Stroud


"The Widget Construction Kit (WCK) is an extension API that allows
you to implement custom widgets in pure Python."  A typical recent
enhancemennt is slightly more efficient anti-aliased drawing under
Windows:
http://online.effbot.org/2005_10_01_archive.htm#20051022 

Mike Meyer and others demonstrate the paranoia and propensity to
abstraction of the experienced when thinking about something as
simple as replacement of one string for another:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/98f0d93332748af9/

Similarly, Bengt Richter illustrates that "a month" is a far 
more complicated idea than first appears:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/68b08f36ca516aa2/

"The deadline for PyCon 2006 submissions is now only a week away."
http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/cfp

Is there a good way to manage Python installations on multiple
(Windows) hosts?  There are several:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1343f89416f8f783/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
 
The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
welcome submission of material that 

Re: Cheapest pocket device to code python on

2005-11-04 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Sybren Stuvel  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Devan L enlightened us with:
>> I would not recommend trying to code on a handheld device. Small
>> screen size and [usually] small keyboards make it
>> less-than-practical. Stick with a laptop, or write it in a notebook,
>> if you must.
>
>Although it isn't the pinnacle of usability, I can program just fine
>on my Sharp Zaurus C3000.
>
>Having said that, a real PC is a lot nicer to work on. But then, if
>you want to have a really portable programming thiny, the Zaurus is
>great.
>
>Not too cheap though.
.
.
.
A colleague who works with Tcl (for this purpose, think of it
as Python, except different) achieves stunning results with
his tiny PocketPC Magician.  For inspiration, see http://wiki.tcl.tk/HTC%20Magician >.  Richard makes me want
such a device, even though I orient exceedingly strongly to
full-size keyboards.  Incidentally, the Samsung 730 is another
I'm considering.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 6)

2005-11-06 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "- don't use SAX unless your document is huge
- don't use DOM unless someone is putting a gun to your head" - Istvan Albert

"I wouldn't fret too much about a sharp remark from Fredrik Lundh. 
They're pretty much all that way. ;) It looks like you already did the
right thing - read past the insults, and gleaned the useful information
that he included in between.  It takes a little training to get used to
him, but if you can look past the nasty bite, he's really a valuable
resource." - Steven Bethard


Alex Martelli and Bengt Richter rely on the galilean property
and set function to compute whether a list is duplicate-free:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4b1da706b9f9e622/

You needn't just pine for syntax from other languages missing
in Python, such as Perl's "start..end"; if you're Peter Otten,
you can add it to Python:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/506412e06dfea965/

Python as podcast!  You might have *thought* you knew about
the language, but it's a big Python world.
http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

Similarly, yes, Python can do what strtok() does in C, although
it's expressed more readably:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5e71a1da4f5934dc/

Larry Bates demonstrates how simple use of ConfigParser can be:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/321ec0512ed8c926/

With the new-style object model, type() is a stylish indirection:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f0fbfae9a69580a3/

Enthusiastic Alex accuses Van Roy and Hariri of having written
the 21st century SICP, and more.  Much more.  With references. 
Yet he (and Magnus Lycka and others) remain faithful:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/77c2035ee4150c11/

Python's a great general-purpose language.  It can address
storage devices directly:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/browse_thread/thread/28eb92576280d3f0/
it can operate at high level, and 'most everything in between.



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 6)

2005-11-06 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "- don't use SAX unless your document is huge
- don't use DOM unless someone is putting a gun to your head" - Istvan Albert

"I wouldn't fret too much about a sharp remark from Fredrik Lundh. 
They're pretty much all that way. ;) It looks like you already did the
right thing - read past the insults, and gleaned the useful information
that he included in between.  It takes a little training to get used to
him, but if you can look past the nasty bite, he's really a valuable
resource." - Steven Bethard


Alex Martelli and Bengt Richter rely on the galilean property
and set function to compute whether a list is duplicate-free:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4b1da706b9f9e622/

You needn't just pine for syntax from other languages missing
in Python, such as Perl's "start..end"; if you're Peter Otten,
you can add it to Python:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/506412e06dfea965/

Python as podcast!  You might have *thought* you knew about
the language, but it's a big Python world.
http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

Similarly, yes, Python can do what strtok() does in C, although
it's expressed more readably:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5e71a1da4f5934dc/

Larry Bates demonstrates how simple use of ConfigParser can be:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/321ec0512ed8c926/

With the new-style object model, type() is a stylish indirection:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f0fbfae9a69580a3/

Enthusiastic Alex accuses Van Roy and Hariri of having written
the 21st century SICP, and more.  Much more.  With references. 
Yet he (and Magnus Lycka and others) remain faithful:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/77c2035ee4150c11/

Python's a great general-purpose language.  It can address
storage devices directly:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/browse_thread/thread/28eb92576280d3f0/
it can operate at high level, and 'most everything in between.



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http

Re: A Tcl/Tk programmer learns Python--any advice?

2005-11-07 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kevin Walzer  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>I've gotten all the approropriate resources for learning Python (docs,
>books, tutorials), so my question is this: are there any "gotchas" that
>Tcl programmers often encounter in learning Python? I'm thinking
>specifically about habits that may require "unlearning," for instance,
>such as grokking object orientation (Tcl procedures are now embedded
>deep in my brain).
>
>Any advice, particularly from other programmers with a lot of experience
>in Tcl, is appreciated.
.
.
.
No, for the most part.  Python's so wonderful that 
it will immediately and correctly identify the "false
friends" you happen to type.

For the most part.  If you are sufficiently steeped
in Tcl, you might find it hard to remember powerful
Python idioms--that dictionaries are first-class
objects perfectly suitable for passing, how to make
use of the different quoting syntaxes, that it's 
easy to define your own Exceptions and Classes, and
so on.

You'll do fine.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Invoking Python from Python

2005-11-08 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Thomas Guettler  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>creating source code with a script, is no good solution. 
>
>Once I had to maintain lisp code which stored its data in lisp code, too
>(incl. conditions and loops). It was a nightmare.
>
>Please explain what you want to do, and we will find a better solution.
.
.
.
Yes and no.  There are times when it's justified.  I ENTIRELY
agree, though, that many people who *think* that's what they
want to do simply don't understand how dynamic base Python is,
and therefore don't realize how much easier it can be to write
a single, unified application.

At this point, 'twould be appropriate to describe an instance
or two in which code generation is a good idea.  While I have
some, they're tedious to make clear.  Maybe I'll do so in a
follow-up ...
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: A Tcl/Tk programmer learns Python--any advice?

2005-11-08 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Russell E. Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
[acute observations]
.
.
>Features of Python that are well integrated and well worth using include:
>- objects
>- collection classes (including list, dict and set)
>- exception handling
>- default arguments for functions
.
.
.
Tcl procedures roughly correspond to Python functions.
The arguments of Tcl procedures can have defaults. 

I find the rest of the summary quite apt.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Invoking Python from Python

2005-11-09 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Meyer  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Since Cameron didn't provide examples, let me grab a simple one. The
>cheetah templating system works by creating Python programs from the
>template. The programs, when run, output the "filled in" template. The
>templates are generally more maintainable than the raw python - even
>if you cleaned up all the things Cheetah does to make writing
>templates easier. This model makes it possible for Cheetah templates
>use inheritance - they can inherit from each other, from python
>classes, and python classes can inherit from them.
.
.
.
Good example.  Excellent one, even, for emphasizing the place
of inheritance in the design.

Functionalism, space-time, security, persistence, duality, ...
I have trouble talking in this area without starting to froth.
An unsatisfying treatment of some of these issues appears in
http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=9884/ur0509m/ >.

I'll rein myself in and suggest an even easier introduction
to this subject:  configuration files.  RARELY is the correct
answer to create a new syntax, although many development
organizations give the impression that's their first choice.
".ini"-speak is a safe-enough choice.  Most interesting,
though, is to interpret Python or some subset as a configu-
ration specification, so that one has immediately not just
HOME = "/some/folder"
STEP_LIMIT = 16
but 
pool_size = cpu_count * 30
and even
if today == "Sunday":
total_process_maximum = 8
available in the configuration language.  Neat, eh?  

But if configuration is *that* powerful, then it can also
do great damage.  How does one make Python interpretation safe?

That's a subject for another day.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 9)

2005-11-09 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "The lesson for me is to spend much less time on Python discussion
and much more on unfinished projects.  So even if I never use the new syntax,
I will have gained something ;-)" - Terry Reedy 

"In short, this group is a broad church, and those readers with brains the
size of planets should remember that they are just as much in a minority as
the readers who appear on the list for the first time this week. The vast
majority are here to learn and grow, and I think that's the sort of
behaviour we should be encouraging." -- Steve Holden


The reasons you like Python probably are put into words in at
least one of these threads:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b41ca4ba29b84471/

Tim Golden, ... help make the most of Excel:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/bcd29beecba33c98/

Spread your expertise around, face-to-face, just outside Dallas.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/msg/b7f6f62db23e1265

Program generators date from the Carboniferous.  Or the age of
Cobol.  Well, from *some* time in the past, as least.  . . .
Except that they keep turning up nowadays, in such guises as
refinable templating systems:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/8962903fc5717bfa/

While generators (like program generators, recursion, and many
other powerful concepts) are great, they're *best* less often
than is commonly realized:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/af6560b12bc719a6/

Deprecation of functionalism isn't an idle exercise.  The
point is not just to *say*, yes, we can live without lambda;
Fredrik Lundh, for example, embraces New Python Style's
willingness to define and redefine function objects, exactly
in contrast to older lambda-oriented codings:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tkinter-discuss/2005-November/000553.html


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/

Re: Invoking Python from Python

2005-11-09 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Meyer  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>It's very flexible - but at this point, the "configuration file" is a
>Python program, and not really suitable to use by non-programmers.
.
.
.
Or both.  I have lived through a lot of experiences where
customers think a configuration file has a very simple
syntax--but in case of some puzzle/emergency/challenge/...,
I can tell 'em, "put 'complicated_script_that_I_can_recite_
on_the_telephone' right at the bottom, and tell me what
happens."  That's saved weeks of thrashing around.

I should make that explicit:  application developers, you
don't have to tell customers everything your programs do.
Your obligation is to make 'em meet requirements.  If it
helps *you* that they do more, so be it.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 9)

2005-11-10 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "The lesson for me is to spend much less time on Python discussion
and much more on unfinished projects.  So even if I never use the new syntax,
I will have gained something ;-)" - Terry Reedy 

"In short, this group is a broad church, and those readers with brains the
size of planets should remember that they are just as much in a minority as
the readers who appear on the list for the first time this week. The vast
majority are here to learn and grow, and I think that's the sort of
behaviour we should be encouraging." -- Steve Holden


The reasons you like Python probably are put into words in at
least one of these threads:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b41ca4ba29b84471/

Tim Golden, ... help make the most of Excel:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/bcd29beecba33c98/

Spread your expertise around, face-to-face, just outside Dallas.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/msg/b7f6f62db23e1265

Program generators date from the Carboniferous.  Or the age of
Cobol.  Well, from *some* time in the past, as least.  . . .
Except that they keep turning up nowadays, in such guises as
refinable templating systems:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/8962903fc5717bfa/

While generators (like program generators, recursion, and many
other powerful concepts) are great, they're *best* less often
than is commonly realized:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/af6560b12bc719a6/

Deprecation of functionalism isn't an idle exercise.  The
point is not just to *say*, yes, we can live without lambda;
Fredrik Lundh, for example, embraces New Python Style's
willingness to define and redefine function objects, exactly
in contrast to older lambda-oriented codings:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tkinter-discuss/2005-November/000553.html


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 16)

2005-11-15 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "You can tell everything is well in the world of dynamic languages
when someone posts a question with nuclear flame war potential like 'python
vs. ruby' and after a while people go off singing hymns about the beauty
of Scheme..." - vdrab

"ctypes completely rocks." - Grant Edwards


Michael Lange endows Tkinter with a Tree widget:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tkinter-discuss/2005-November/000556.html

Fuzzyman has written a valuable commentary on urllib2.
How do we collectively get a reference to this in the
tutorial and/or library reference?
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml

What *is* good style for Pythonic symbolic constants?

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f09d1d77d605bdba/

Diez Roggisch and others describe typical limits to the
powers of GUI toolkits, and hint at ways to circumvent
those limits:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/75ac35b00714fd38/

Edgewall Software arranges the tutorial on a tree some 
readers find convenient:
http://projects.edgewall.com/python-sidebar/html/toc-tutorial.html

Ben Finney asks serious questions about code re-use:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/23dbb109fb831e8f/

We're still a long way from knowing how to manage memory
well, and certainly it's an opaque issue during software
development.  Here's what's known:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/da4d11f2a05bfb41/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 16)

2005-11-16 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "You can tell everything is well in the world of dynamic languages
when someone posts a question with nuclear flame war potential like 'python
vs. ruby' and after a while people go off singing hymns about the beauty
of Scheme..." - vdrab

"ctypes completely rocks." - Grant Edwards


Michael Lange endows Tkinter with a Tree widget:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tkinter-discuss/2005-November/000556.html

Fuzzyman has written a valuable commentary on urllib2.
How do we collectively get a reference to this in the
tutorial and/or library reference?
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml

What *is* good style for Pythonic symbolic constants?

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f09d1d77d605bdba/

Diez Roggisch and others describe typical limits to the
powers of GUI toolkits, and hint at ways to circumvent
those limits:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/75ac35b00714fd38/

Edgewall Software arranges the tutorial on a tree some 
readers find convenient:
http://projects.edgewall.com/python-sidebar/html/toc-tutorial.html

Ben Finney asks serious questions about code re-use:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/23dbb109fb831e8f/

We're still a long way from knowing how to manage memory
well, and certainly it's an opaque issue during software
development.  Here's what's known:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/da4d11f2a05bfb41/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.

Re: running functions

2005-11-16 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Grant Edwards  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 2005-11-16, Gorlon the Impossible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure how to phrase this question. I have a Python function
>> that sends MIDI messages to a synth. When I run it, I of course have
>> to wait until it is finished before I can do anything else with
>> Python. Is it possible to run this function and still be able to do
>> other things with Python while it is running?
>
>Yes.
>
>> Is that what threading is about?
>
>Exactly.  Take a look at the "treading" module:
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-threading.html
.
.
.
I don't agree, Grant (although I salute the brevity
of your follow-up), and a couple of other correspon-
dents have already posted follow-ups that begin to
explore the alternatives.

If I were pursuing this, the first question I'd have
for Gorlon is whether he's OK with a "fire and for-
get" model.  By that, I mean to ask if it's OK to
send the MIDI message, and then return immediately
to other Python work, OR whether Gorlon also needs
to stay in contact with the MIDI handler, and
perhaps react especially when the MIDI handler
finishes with the specific message.  That choice is
crucial in a good concurrency design.

So, Gorlon, yes, threading is a prominent member of
the family of facilities that address situations like
yours.  It's not the only one, though.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: running functions

2005-11-17 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Gorlon the Impossible  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>the fly' so to speak. I checked out the threading module and its
>working for what I am trying to do at the moment, but I am open to
>suggestions and eager to learn all I can about other options. Thanks
.
.
.
If threading is already working for you, stay with it; it
certainly has the technical ability to do all you describe
for your eventual goal.  Apart from that, just keep reading
the standard documentation.  You might also consider
http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0303j/ > and
http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7750/uni1041364857773/ >
(except that the latter is now in its second edition--why hasn't
the reviewer addressed this yet!?).
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: How to write an API for a Python application?

2005-11-17 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
dwelch  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Gary Kshepitzki wrote:
>> Hello
>> I would like to create an API for a piece of Python code. The API is for use 
>> by non Python code.
>> It should support interaction in both directions, both accessing functions 
>> on the API and the ability for the API to raise events on its client.
>> What is the best way to do that?
>> I though of doing it as a python COM server but I am not familiar with COM 
>> and I saw that implementing a COM server with events in python is not 
>> trivial for me.
>> Is there a better (or simpler) solution?
>> What are the common ways for doing that?
.
.
.
>You could try Elmer:
>http://elmer.sourceforge.net/index.html
>
>I'm sure you could create a callable library (.so, .dll, etc) with it.
.
.
.
You guys work too hard.

My reaction is this:  Mr. Kshepitzki asks for an IPC choice,
says that COM looks like a bit too much, and respondents
start by loading him with even *heavier* technical alterna-
tives, such as CORBA.  Whew!  My recommendation:  a simple
project-specific line-oriented bilateral TCP/IP implementa-
tion.  Both server and client can listen for incoming
messages.  My guess is that the *... Cookbook* has a sketch
of this in a few dozen lines.  Perhaps after I've searched
it, I'll follow-up with a specific reference.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: How to write an API for a Python application?

2005-11-17 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Paul Boddie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>meaning that callbacks and other things just work. Rolling your own
>solution, on the other hand, can end in a long road discovering what
>those CORBA people were doing for all those years.
>
>I suppose if CORBA is too heavy, there's always PYRO. I can't comment
.
.
.
Indeed, Paul:  those who scorn CORBA often *do* re-create it,
poorly.

I still don't think it's the right answer for Mr. Kshepitzki.
Pyro might be perfect.  My own instinct is to start even more
primitively, with a minimal asynchat client and server.  I've
looked through the *Cookbook*, and see that it doesn't have
what I want.  Maybe it's time Phaseit donate one of the
little models we use ...  
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: How to write an API for a Python application?

2005-11-19 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, I mumbled:
.
.
.
>Pyro might be perfect.  My own instinct is to start even more
>primitively, with a minimal asynchat client and server.  I've
>looked through the *Cookbook*, and see that it doesn't have
>what I want.  Maybe it's time Phaseit donate one of the
>little models we use ...  

Ah-ha!  See Example 19-7, on page 447 of *Python in a Nutshell*:
under two dozen lines that provide an echo server which correctly
handles multiple concurrent clients.  

But that's also about as much as I've found publicly in that 
direction.  The original questioner wanted, or thought he wanted,
an object-capable protocol, so he could invoke methods remotely;
for that, I return to Paul Boddie's correct observation that 
folks can use CORBA, or imitate CORBA badly (as much of this
season's "SOA" does).  What I don't see, though, is a nice client-
server pair that are minimal, and exhibit *symmetric* event-oriented
performance and scalability.  Some people mistakenly regard this
"peering" architecture as a dark secret.  I think I'll write a model
in under fifty lines of Python this week ...
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 26)

2005-11-26 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "... '[B]ut assume that I have some other use case' isn't a valid
use case". - Fredrik Lundh

"Rolling your own solution, on the other hand, can end in a long road
discovering what those CORBA people were doing for all those years." - Paul
Boddie


NOTW:  sceptifications.


Steven D'Aprano carefully details a common confusion among
newcomers about empty lists and initialization:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/8480fae54a64fc15/

Inyeol Lee and others illustrate use of regular expression
syntax having to do with repeated patterns:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b5e7abb4ff1e156c/

Metakit 2.4.9.5 corrects a potential disk-full error, and
improves performance greatly in certain circumstances:
http://www.equi4.com/pub/mk/CHANGES
http://www.equi4.com/metakit.html

William Peterson jokes that, "[i]f you ask ten people on 
this newsgroup [about GUI construction newcomers] you'll
probably get twelve opinions"--and then the community 
promptly proves him right:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6fd1ea6b4a2d31f8/

Having arrived in the twenty-first century, clp now has 
its own (provisional) podcast:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b39581f59dce9191/

David Wahler cogently perverts^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hextends pickle
to serialize *classes* (as opposed to their instances):

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/10a03f094303a91c/

Fully-general backward-compatibility has substantial costs,
often greater than the version migration it's supposed to
spare us.  Several of the regulars discuss this seriously:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/423d9dfa80456966/

__slots__ are only a (memory) optimization, restricted to
well-defined circumstances, explains the martellibot:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1cc68de7af477386/

A good thing about Cheetah is that it cooperates with Python's
inheritance:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f063406b648c7d0c/


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%2

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Nov 26)

2005-11-27 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "... '[B]ut assume that I have some other use case' isn't a valid
use case". - Fredrik Lundh

"Rolling your own solution, on the other hand, can end in a long road
discovering what those CORBA people were doing for all those years." - Paul
Boddie


NOTW:  sceptifications.


Steven D'Aprano carefully details a common confusion among
newcomers about empty lists and initialization:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/8480fae54a64fc15/

Inyeol Lee and others illustrate use of regular expression
syntax having to do with repeated patterns:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b5e7abb4ff1e156c/

Metakit 2.4.9.5 corrects a potential disk-full error, and
improves performance greatly in certain circumstances:
http://www.equi4.com/pub/mk/CHANGES
http://www.equi4.com/metakit.html

William Peterson jokes that, "[i]f you ask ten people on 
this newsgroup [about GUI construction newcomers] you'll
probably get twelve opinions"--and then the community 
promptly proves him right:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6fd1ea6b4a2d31f8/

Having arrived in the twenty-first century, clp now has 
its own (provisional) podcast:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b39581f59dce9191/

David Wahler cogently perverts^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hextends pickle
to serialize *classes* (as opposed to their instances):

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/10a03f094303a91c/

Fully-general backward-compatibility has substantial costs,
often greater than the version migration it's supposed to
spare us.  Several of the regulars discuss this seriously:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/423d9dfa80456966/

__slots__ are only a (memory) optimization, restricted to
well-defined circumstances, explains the martellibot:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1cc68de7af477386/

A good thing about Cheetah is that it cooperates with Python's
inheritance:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f063406b648c7d0c/


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%2

Re: How to write an API for a Python application?

2005-11-28 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Note also that you can freely download all of the code in my book as
>http://examples.oreilly.com/pythonian/pythonian-examples.zip (it's just
>36 KB).  In that same chapter you will find several implementations of
.
.
.
1.  Private e-mail to all the addresses I have for you has
been bouncing.
2.  Both 19-7 and 19-8 in the ZIP I found at that URL have
a curious typo that I'll describe this way:
  s/_  _/__/g
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: How to write an API for a Python application?

2005-11-29 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Yeah, O'Reilly tools have this delightful penchant for inserting a space
>between two adjacent underscores, drives me crazy:-(.
>
>
>Alex

Do more of us need to holler at ORA?  Is there some technical 
reason to allow this craziness to persist?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: How to get started in GUI Programming?

2005-11-29 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kay Schluehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I am trying to learn GUI programming in Python, but have to confess I
>> am finding it difficult.
>
>Don't do it if you can prevent it.
>
>GUI - toolkits are very complex beasts and at least to me a source of
>pain far more as a joy. Python cannot help you making them
>significantly simpler but on the contrary add just another level of
>indirection. Python normally shines when you have to glue libraries
>together or programming simply Python scripts for a broad range of
>purposes but if the wrapped library publishes a huge interface with
>hundreds of classes and thousands of methods and attributes the benfit
>of Pythons abstraction converges to zero. Python does not offer a good
>toolchain to take up with Swing, WinForms or Qt to name just a few
>delivered with IDEs that are very helpfull in developing GUI apps. Not
>to talk about documentation...
>
>Conclusion: if you are already familiar with BASIC I would just
>continue writing BASIC apps using VisualBasic dotNet, Windows Forms as
>the underlying GUI toolktit and VisualStudio as IDE. Forget the
>coolness factor of the language. Cool people never care a lot what
>other people think. If you finally want to glue assemblys/controls
>together in Python this is still possible with IronPython or
>Python-dotNet ( which is a CPython binding to the CLR, available at
>Zope.org ).
>

There's something about this that bothers me, Kay.

I like the clarity and precision of your explanation.  To
avoid trouble is advice worth emphasizing.  I applaud your
emphasis on Python's adeptness at co-operating with other
languages.

I think you've left a few things unsaid, though.  Others
have pointed out in this thread that, for example, Web
applications are *great* for many GUI requirements.  Also,
although toolkit zealots regularly underestimate the
"activation energy" often required to configure a develop-
ment environment, newcomers deserve to know how easy it can
be to start with Tkinter.  While it doesn't make for the
slickest MacOS-style applications, it's pedagogically
pertinent that a Mac comes "out of the box" with the ability
to
  import Tkinter
  Tkinter.Button(Tkinter.Tk(), text = "Push me").pack()
That sort of brevity can encourage beginners in an important
way.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: python speed

2005-12-01 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Isaac Gouy wrote:
>
>> Which stated "Python is doing the heavy lifting with GMPY which is a
>> compiled C program with a Python wrapper" - but didn't seem to compare
>> that to GMPY with a Java wrapper?
>
>You are missing the main idea: Java is by design a general purpose
>programming language. That's why all "GMPYs" and alike are written in
>Java - now wrappers to C-libraries. Python, by design, is glue
.
.
.
I don't understand the sentence, "That's why all 'GMPYs' and alike ..."
Are you saying that reuse of code written in languages other than Java
is NOT important to Java?  I think that's a reasonable proposition; I'm
just having trouble following your paragraph.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Dec 2)

2005-12-02 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "Python makes it easy to implement algorithms." - casevh

"Most of the discussion of immutables here seems to be caused by
newcomers wanting to copy an idiom from another language which doesn't
have immutable variables. Their real problem is usually with binding,
not immutability." - Mike Meyer


Among the treasures available in The Wiki is the current
copy of "the Sorting min-howto":
http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sorting/sorting.html

Dabo is way cool--at least as of release 0.5:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/becf84a4f8b3d34/

Tim Golden illustrates that wmi is *not* the only way to
access win32 functionality, and in fact that Python can
mimic VisualBasicScript quite handily.  It's only mimicry,
though; VBS remains better suited for this specific class
of tasks:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/fa84850666488500/

Claudio Grondi explains ActiveX componentry--OCXs, the
registry, apartments, ...--for a Python audience:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/471306f2d6f6927/

Dao is a novel high-level language which advertises strong
multi-threading, Unicode, and particularly comfortable C++ 
interfacing.  Limin Fu provides details:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4418fac8dda696d9/

Donn Cave leads at least a score of others in comparing
lists and tuples:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/dd6ba8df451d57e0?


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.
http://sourc

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Dec 2)

2005-12-04 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "Python makes it easy to implement algorithms." - casevh

"Most of the discussion of immutables here seems to be caused by
newcomers wanting to copy an idiom from another language which doesn't
have immutable variables. Their real problem is usually with binding,
not immutability." - Mike Meyer


Among the treasures available in The Wiki is the current
copy of "the Sorting min-howto":
http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sorting/sorting.html

Dabo is way cool--at least as of release 0.5:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/becf84a4f8b3d34/

Tim Golden illustrates that wmi is *not* the only way to
access win32 functionality, and in fact that Python can
mimic VisualBasicScript quite handily.  It's only mimicry,
though; VBS remains better suited for this specific class
of tasks:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/fa84850666488500/

Claudio Grondi explains ActiveX componentry--OCXs, the
registry, apartments, ...--for a Python audience:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/471306f2d6f6927/

Dao is a novel high-level language which advertises strong
multi-threading, Unicode, and particularly comfortable C++ 
interfacing.  Limin Fu provides details:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4418fac8dda696d9/

Donn Cave leads at least a score of others in comparing
lists and tuples:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/dd6ba8df451d57e0?


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
SourceForge reincarnation.
http://sourc

Re: Use python to test Java and Windows (dll) applciations

2005-12-05 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
jb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hello everybody:
>
>I need help, and please let me know if python is the language of choice
>to implement following functionalities:
>
>I am trying to test a Java application and a C++ (win32) application.
>
>I want to be able to write python code to mimic user interaction with
>the application.  Interaction could be mouse or keyboard
>movement/events using which I want to be able to select Menus and
>execute them. Please let me know if this is feasible using Python, if
>yes, please refer me to a good resource.
.
.
.
Yes and no.

To think of Python in this context is a healthy instinct.

The whole category of "mimic user interaction" is deeply
problematic, though.  The simple-minded Python-oriented answer
to give is, "use Pamie or Watsup".  You might do best, though,
to start by reading http://wiki.tcl.tk/8813 >.

To pursue this further, we'd need to explore what exactly
"Java" and "C++" mean in your situation.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Ant (with Python extensions) good replacement for distutils?

2005-12-06 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Diez B. Roggisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I know distutils well but don't know anything about Ant except that it
>> is a build
>> tool from Apache project.
>> 
>> Could it possible be better or as good as distutils?
>> (There are extensions for Python.)
>
>No way. Ant sucks. Big-time. I actually enhance it with embedded jython 
>to get at least _some_ flexibility.
>
>Diez

http://www.testing.com/blog/misc/ant.txt >
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Dec 7)

2005-12-07 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "... and to my utter surprise it worked." - Andrew Nagel on 
his move from wxPython to programming Tkinter in desperation

"Python has more web application frameworks than keywords." - Skip
Montanaro (but probably others going back years)


Frithiof Andreas Jensen writes frankly on use of SNMP and netconf:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/662032bf92670fd7

Perhaps your application needs something like "ping".  Several
distinct ways to achieve that exist:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ced60d60b5942f1f/

You're going to hear about reddit.com, and about how it's been
REimplemented in Python.  Here's a fraction of the commentary:
http://reddit.com/blog/2005/12/night-of-living-python.html
http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit

Long discussions about Python documentation lead to no conclusion
this commentator knows how to summarize:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/767470cb3cbc24d5/

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/94e2e5244a90a274/

aum's pygene genetic-algorithm solver "includes full api
documentation, and an implementation of the travelling
salesman problem ...":

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/9901fe0f886893d6/

Jibes against the lambda-clingers lead eventually to serious
questions of style in regard to variable namespacing, 
lifespan, cleanup, and so on:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ad0e15cb6b8f2c32/

To say anything useful about IDEs apart from that one needs to
try each on for personal fit seems *very* difficult:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/eca26b6e6617a591/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-r

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Dec 7)

2005-12-08 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "... and to my utter surprise it worked." - Andrew Nagel on 
his move from wxPython to programming Tkinter in desperation

"Python has more web application frameworks than keywords." - Skip
Montanaro (but probably others going back years)


Frithiof Andreas Jensen writes frankly on use of SNMP and netconf:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/662032bf92670fd7

Perhaps your application needs something like "ping".  Several
distinct ways to achieve that exist:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ced60d60b5942f1f/

You're going to hear about reddit.com, and about how it's been
REimplemented in Python.  Here's a fraction of the commentary:
http://reddit.com/blog/2005/12/night-of-living-python.html
http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit

Long discussions about Python documentation lead to no conclusion
this commentator knows how to summarize:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/767470cb3cbc24d5/

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/94e2e5244a90a274/

aum's pygene genetic-algorithm solver "includes full api
documentation, and an implementation of the travelling
salesman problem ...":

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/9901fe0f886893d6/

Jibes against the lambda-clingers lead eventually to serious
questions of style in regard to variable namespacing, 
lifespan, cleanup, and so on:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ad0e15cb6b8f2c32/

To say anything useful about IDEs apart from that one needs to
try each on for personal fit seems *very* difficult:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/eca26b6e6617a591/



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

For far, FAR more Python reading than any one mind should
absorb, much of it quite interesting, several pages index
much of the universe of Pybloggers.
http://lowlife.jp/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/PythonProgrammersWeblog
http://www.planetpython.org/
http://mechanicalcat.net/pyblagg.html

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Steve Bethard, Tim Lesher, and Tony Meyer continue the marvelous
tradition early borne by Andrew Kuchling, Michael Hudson and Brett
Cannon of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing
list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-r

Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Dec 7)

2005-12-09 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
David Isaac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Cameron Laird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Jibes against the lambda-clingers lead eventually to serious
>> questions of style in regard to variable namespacing,
>> lifespan, cleanup, and so on:
>>
>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/ad0e15cb6b8f2c32/
>
>
>#evaluate polynomial (coefs) at x using Horner's ruledef horner(coefs,x):
>return reduce(lambda a1,a2: a1*x+a2,coefs)'Nuf said.Alan Isaac
>
>

No.

That is, this follow-up does *not* say enough for me to have confidence
of its intent.  Leaving aside such formalities as the relation between
"Alan Isaac" and "David Isaac", I *think* you're supporting a claim
about the value of lambda with a specific example.  Do I have that
right?  Are you saying that your definition of horner() would suffer
greatly without lambda?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Dec 7)

2005-12-09 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
I reported:
.
.
.
>"Python has more web application frameworks than keywords." - Skip
>Montanaro (but probably others going back years)
.
.
.
Incorrect.  Thanks to Fredrik Lundh, who rather miraculously intuited
that this was a mechanical error, and that my real intention was to
highlight what Harald Armin Massa (and others, most likely) had earlier
quipped:
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/435579 
  http://online.effbot.org/2004_06_01_archive.htm#europython-1
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: new in programing

2005-12-09 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike C. Fletcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Python iterates over "things" (objects), of which integer numbers are 
>just one possible choice.  The range built-in command produces ranges of 
>integers which are useful for tasks such as this.
>
>lim = 3
>
>for i in range( 1, lim+1 ):
>for j in range( i+1, lim+2):
>for k in range( j+1, lim+3):
>for l in range( k+1, lim+4):
>for m in range( l+1, lim+5):
>for n in range( m+1, lim+6):
>print i,j,k,l,m,n
>
>Would be a direct translation of your code (with a few lines to make it 
>actually do something and a fix for the last variable name).
.
.
.
  for hextuple in [(i, j, k, l, m, n)
 for i in range(1, lim + 1) \
 for j in range (1, lim + 2) \
 for k in range (1, lim + 3) \
 for l in range (1, lim + 4) \
 for m in range (1, lim + 5) \
 for n in range (1, lim + 6)]:
  print hextuple

I don't think the list comprehension helps, in this case--although
it hints at the temptation of an eval-able expression which is 
briefer.  More on that, later.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2004-12-31 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Paul Rubin   wrote:
>Peter Dembinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> If it has to be both reliable and secure, I suggest you used more
>> redundant language such as Ada 95.
>
>That's something to think about and it's come up in discussions, but
>probably complicates stuff since it's not currently available on the
>target platform.  Also, the people on the project have significant
>Java and Python experience but haven't used Ada.  Do you think it has
>real advantages over Java?

You have me curious, Paul; what's the platform which lacks an Ada95
compiler http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Ada/Compilers/ 
>?

Me, I think Ada has significant advantages over Java in safety, 
especially where OO is *not* a benefit (as is sometimes the case).

For a not-too-different variety of safety, I like Eiffel.  Again,
Eiffel compilers are available nearly, but not entirely, everywhere.

I'm not arguing for redundancy (see above), by the way, just precision.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2004-12-31 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Christopher Koppler  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Manager culture is still very much mired in rituals that may in one form
>or another go back to hunter-gatherer days (or maybe even further); that
>'the industry choice' is more often than not something backed by a *major*
>company is part of a ritual complex based on relations to the alpha male.
>Small companies ingratiate themselves with their perceived betters by
>using their products, even when technically far superior products would be
>available. When the 'market leader' produces a new toy, everyone who wants
>to be in his favor must use it _and_ also damn the toys available from any
>of those competing for leadership, viz. the ongoing state of cold war
>between Sun and MS and their respective worshipers. Toys that have not
>been sanctioned by the leader, or that are, even worse, de facto unknown
>to him, are met with ignorance, scorn, or even repression.
>
>[snip]
>> For Python a Big Thing would happen if some Major Vendor
>> embraced it as its Official Language(tm). Python language
>> itself could turn into a smoking crock the very next day, but
>> everybody who doesn't live under the rock would still be 
>> writing in it.
>
>The moral is, of course, that either the Python community's alpha geeks
>need to get access to controlling interest in a *major* company (or to
>become successful enough with their own companies to register on the
>current *major* companies radar as potential competition) or as you
>say, Python needs to be embraced like Linux was. That's the way to win the
>hearts of software companies' managers.
.
.
.
I like repeating the description which emphasizes culture
and phenotype over the rationality of business schools.

Let me add a cautionary note, though:  Big Companies, 
including Oracle, Software AG, IBM, Cisco, and so on, have
adopted Tcl over and over.  All of them still rely on Tcl
for crucial products.  All of them also have employees who
sincerely wonder, "Tcl?  Isn't that dead?"

I offer this as a counter-example to the belief that Adop-
tion by a heavyweight necessarily results in widespread
acceptance.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2005-01-01 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Hans Nowak  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> You should write unit tests either way, but in Python you're relying
>> on the tests to find stuff that the compiler finds for you with Java.
>
>As I wrote on my weblog a while ago, I suspect that this effect is 
>largely psychological.  You jump through hoops, declaring types all over 
>the place, checking exceptions, working around the language's 
>limitations, etc.  So when your code compiles, it *feels* safer.  Like 
>you're at least part of the way towards ensuring correctness.  All that 
>work must be good for *something*, right?  Never mind that when writing 
>unit tests for a dynamic language, you don't check for these things at 
>all.  How often do you explicitly check types in Python unit tests? 
>IMHO, when using a dynamic language, you don't need most of the checks 
>that Java, C# and their ilk force upon you.
.
.
.
Me, too.

That is, while I have a LOT of respect for Paul's programming
and judgment, and question myself when I'm on the side opposite
him, I ultimately value type declarations in languages such as
Java as more cost than benefit.

It's a funny position to hold, because I simultaneously recognize
that type theory is one of computing's strongest theoretical 
achievements, AND I am a strong advocate of "static" syntax checkers
such as PyChecker.  Still, I see TDD as the right place to start.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2005-01-01 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bulba wrote:
>>OK, so what projects and why would you consider
>>Python:
>>1. "clearly unsuitable"
>
>Large-scale scientific computing projects, such as numerical weather
>prediction, where performance is critical. Python could be used as the
>"glue" but not the "guts", where Fortran 95 and C++ are more
>appropriate. In my tests, some posted here, there has been a
.
.
.
I feel like growling that it's clearly a mistake for large-scale
scientific computing projects not to leverage dynamic languages,
at least in part.  Yes, I've seen projects that would have been
disasters if done entirely in Python.  I've also seen many, many
large-scale scientific projects that soaked up far more resources
than they should have because they limited themselves to C++ or
Fortran.

I argue that it's a false opposition to categorize projects in
terms of use of single languages.  Many projects are MUCH better
off with a mix of Python and Fortran, say (and probably SQL and
JavaScript and ...), and it's pernicious to accomodate the 
managerial conceit that One Language will suffice.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2005-01-02 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mark Carter  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
[tale of *very* 
typical experience
with non-software
engineers]
.
.
>use something like Python. I didn't get a reaction from that at the 
>time, but no doubt they'll be telling me that I'll have to make Excel 
>work through the internet, or something.

I do that, by the way--work with Excel through the 'Net.

I use Python, of course.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Industrial organization (was: The Industry choice)

2005-01-03 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bulba! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> True. I have a bit of interest in economics, so I've seen e.g.
>> this example - why is it that foreign branches of companies
>> tend to cluster themselves in one city or country (e.g.
>
>It's not just _foreign_ companies -- regional clustering of all kinds of
>business activities is a much more widespread phenomenon.  Although I'm
>not sure he was the first to research the subject, Tjalling Koopmans, as
>part of his lifework on normative economics for which he won the Nobel
>Prize 30 years ago, published a crucial essay on the subject about 50
>years ago (sorry, can't recall the exact date!) focusing on
>_indivisibilities_, leading for example to transportation costs, and to
>increasing returns with increasing scale.  Today, Paul Krugman is
>probably the best-known name in this specific field (he's also a
>well-known popularizer and polemist, but his specifically-scientific
>work in economics has mostly remained in this field).
.
.
.
clp actually dropped related names back in April http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/index/browse_frm/thread/ce749b848d1c33da/
 >,
but I think that was during one of your sabbaticals from the
group.

The work of Vernon Smith, the unconventionally conventional 
Nobel co-recipient of 2002, can be viewed as a commentary on
clustering and other non-homogeneities.  Many US readers
have encountered Jane Jacobs, who has made a career (and 
spawned a following) exploring the significance of cities as
economic clusters.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2005-01-03 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Steve Holden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Well clearly there's a spectrum. However, I have previously written that 
>> the number of open source projects that appear to get stuck somewhere 
>> between release 0.1 and release 0.9 is amazingly large, and does imply 
>> some dissipation of effort.
>
>And how do the failure and effort dissipation rates of open source code 
>compare to those of closed source code?  Of course, we have only anecdotal 
>evidence that the latter is also 'amazingly large'.  And, to be fair, the 
>latter should include the one-programmer proprietary projects that 
>correspond to the one-programmer open projects.
>
>Also, what is 'amazing' to one depends on one's expectations ;-).  It is 
>known, for instance, that some large fraction of visible retail business 
>fail within a year.  And that natural selection is based on that fact that 
.
.
.
The usual measurements and estimates are generally between 15% and
30%.  "Desirable" businesses--restaurants, for example, or computing
consultancies--are even more likely to fail.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Compiler benefits (was: The Industry choice)

2005-01-03 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Roy Smith wrote:
>>I think you've hit the nail on the head. In awk (and perl, and most
>>shells, and IIRC, FORTRAN), using an undefined variable silently gets
>>you a default value (empty string or zero). This tends to propagate
>>errors and make them very difficult to track down.
>
>You may recall correctly, but Fortran compilers have improved. The
>following Fortran 90 program
>
>integer, parameter :: n = 1
>real :: x,y=2.0,z(n)
>print*,"dog"
>print*,x
>z(n+1) = 1.0
>print*,z
>end
>
>has 3 errors, all detected at compile time by the Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran
>95 compiler, with the proper options:
>
>2004-I: "xundef.f", line 2: 'y' is set but never used.
.
.
.
I wonder how many of Lahey/Fujitsu users ignore the 'I' diagnostics:
"It's not really an error--the program still runs."

I'm a bit grouchy today on the subject of engineering standards.

I think your point was that the checking present in modern Fortran
compilers, or PyCheckers, but absent from core Python, is a net 
benefit.  That I grant.  I'm reluctant to argue for a change in
Python.  I personally prefer to urge PyChecker on developers.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


How can engineers not understand source-code control? (was: The Industry choice)

2005-01-03 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mark Carter  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Don't start me! Dammit, too late ...
>
>I've noticed that they have an overwhelming obsession with GUIs, too. 
>They design wizards for everything. Damn pretty they are, too. Albeit a 
>bit flakey. They seem to conflate pretty interfaces with good interfaces 
>and good software.
>
>I used to joke that since our software wasn't particularly magical, it 
>didn't need wizards. But I think I just ended up sounding bitter.
>
>We once had a bit of software that we thought we'd like to turn into a 
>generic application. The focus on improvements was, predictably enough, 
>that we should design a GUI that could do anything a client would likely 
>to want to do. It was my opinion, though, having seen the very 
>"special-cases" nature required in the original software, that it was 
>almost impossible to predict exactly how a customer might want the 
>product tailored. I suggested that what they really needed was a library 
>(Python would have been good for this, Lisp might have been even better) 
>that could be extended as required. GUIs second, functionality first. 
>But hey, what would I know. Fortunately, the whole thing's been put on 
>the back burner.
>
>And trying to get through to them why source control makes sense, that 
>when more than one person works on a project, some form of coordination 
>is required, that copying and pasting code is evil, and that Excel 
>probably isn't the hammer for every nail.
>
>Honestly, I thought (real) engineers were supposed to be clever.

Let's provisionally assume ignorance rather than unintelligence,
if only on the grounds of parsimony.  Sympathetic colleagues are
available, by the way, at http://www.engcorp.com/acf/ >.
While the Wiki remains *very* quiet, at this point, it's still
quite young.

The subject you raise is precisely at the middle of part of my
excitement about Python's prospects.  I'll sketch the pertinent
propositions:  GUIs are the wrong model; true flexibility involves
a domain-specific, well-designed "little language".  "Scripting
languages" were originally "configuration languages"; return to
those roots is only healthy.  Scientific and engineering software
particularly has been in thrall to the GUI, and deserves rejuve-
nation with "scripting".  Key to the dynamic of dynamic languages
is that they make it cheaper to re-write than to re-use, in some
carefully limited sense.

I've seen the infatuation for Excel (and so on) for years, but
never found it at all tempting myself.  I mostly just ignore the
issue--no, actually, I guess I give them Excel, but show at the
same time that they really want the alternative views that I
also provide.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: How can engineers not understand source-code control?

2005-01-04 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mark Carter  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>True story: when I began working for my current employer, there was a 
>guy there doing some work with a spreadsheet. He was given two weeks to 
.
[tale of atrocity and woe]
.
.
>cell formulae. The rationale behind this is that VBA is too hard for 
>most people to understand, whereas formulae are easier to understand. 
.
.
.
Well *that* certainly made my morning unpleasant.

I think the point to take away has something to do with maturity
or judgment or one of those other difficult qualities.  Some of
this stuff--"formulae are easy to understand", "you don't need
programmers, you just enter what you want the machine to do",
"we'll wage war on terrorists by *becoming* terrorists", "Micro-
soft has spent more on 'security' than any other vendor"--*sounds*
like a useful guide to action.  A hard part of our responsibility,
though, is articulating for decision-makers that these superficial
simplificities truly are superficial, and that they lead to 
monstrous costs that are hard for "civilians" to anticipate.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2005-01-04 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Peter Dembinski  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>def foo(x):
>return str(x)
>
>str = foo(x)
>
>And now, let's say that foo()'s definition is in another module.
>It is hard for a programmer to quickly determine the type for str,
>that's the problem with programming in languages that don't have
>type declarations.

I think I don't understand.  I believe you're saying that Python and
C might code homologously as

  def py_foo(x)
return py_bar(x)

and
  
  char *C_foo(int x)
  {
return C_bar(x);
  }

and that these definitions make it evident that C_foo() returns a
(char *), while there's no such manifest restriction on the type 
of py_foo().  Well, yes, that's so (but what did it have to do with
definitions in another module?).  There's nothing peculiar in this
to functions, right?  Python declares types of *no* bindings, so 
your claim is equally true of local variables, correct?

And this is all a *benefit* of Python, at least as I see it.  Yes,
good style in Python is different from good style in C, but the
former's strong implicit typing has, I think, equal claim to 
virtue.

Type in C are so epiphenomenal.  They communicate little of what *I*
need to know.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: The Industry choice

2005-01-04 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alan Gauld  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 16:08:07 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron
>Laird) wrote:
>
>> I argue that it's a false opposition to categorize projects in
>> terms of use of single languages.  Many projects are MUCH better
>> off with a mix 
>
>In practice I have *never* worked on an industrial scale project
>that only used one language. The nearest I came was a small
>protocol convertor that only used C, SQL and some shell and 
>awk - but that's still 4 languages! And the whole project was
>only 40,000 lines of code in about 20 files.
>
>And most projects use many more, I'd guess around 5-8 on an
>"average project" of around 300-500kloc. The biggest project I
>worked on had about 3.5Mloc and used:
>
>Assembler (680x0 and Sparc),
>C
>C++
>Lisp(Flavors)
>awk
>Bourne shell
>C shell - this was a mistake discovered too late to "fix"
>PL/SQL
> - A UI description language for a tool called TeleUse...
>Pascal - No, I don't know why...
>ASN.1 - with a commercial compiler
>
>We also had some IDL but since it was tool generated I'll ignore
>it...
>
>We also had an experimental version running on a NeXt box so it
>used Objective C for the UI instead of  and C++...
>
>A total of 13 languages... with 5 geographically dispersed teams
>comprising a total of 200 developers (plus about 40 testers).
>Interesting times...in the Chinese sense!
.
.
.
D.  The TeleUSE language http://www.aonix.com/teleuse.html > is "D".

And I suspect your count is a lower bound.  If you worked with TeleUSE, 
somebody probably was doing Motif configuration, which arguably is a(n
impoverished configuration) language itself.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: navigating/changing directories

2005-01-06 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Nick Coghlan  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The script is executed in a process separate from your command shell, and 
>hence 
>has no effect on your shell's current directory.
>
>There are some things that batch files and shell scripts are still good for - 
>manipulating the shell :)
.
.
.
For more on this subject, see http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.unix.misc/changing_directories.html >.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Excluded and other middles in licensing (was: The Industry choice)

2005-01-06 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>One last reflection -- I believe there are or used to be some programs
>written by people no doubt of very good will, distributed with all
>sources and often with no profit motive at all, which are NOT open
>source because they include in the license some restrictive clause, such
>as "no military use", "no use by organizations which perform testing of
>cosmetics on animals", or something of that kind.  These would be
>examples of closed-source software which DO allow ALMOST any kind of use
>-- any EXCEPT the specific one the authors dislike so intensely.
>
>While most people may not think of such programs as "closed source",
>they most definitely ARE: the definition of open source is very strict
>about this aspect.
>
>
>Alex

With my mathematical background, I'm consistent about calling
these "non-open" rather than "closed".  I don't insist others
adopt my nomenclature ...
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Integration with java

2005-01-14 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Istvan Albert  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Joachim Boomberschloss wrote:
>
>>  the code is already written in Python, using the
>>  standard libraries and several extension modules
>
>One thing to keep in mind is that Jython does not
>integrate CPython, instead it "understands" python code
>directly. So if you have a C extension that works with python
>it won't work with Jython.
>
>My feeling is that if you had a lot of Java code written and
>wanted to build on that with python Jython would be a better
>fit than vice versa.
>
>Istvan.

There are other possibilities, though, including JPE
http://jpe.sourceforge.net >.  I recommend the
original poster consider the latter.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Integration with java (Jpype vs. JPE)

2005-01-15 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jon Perez  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Can someone summarize in a nutshell what is the
>difference between JPype and JPE?

JPE's the original.  It provided more functionality than JPype has
achieved so far, I believe (though that could change any day).  I
think no one now maintains JPE.

Someone really ought to include a couple of sentences to that effect
on the front page of http://jpype.sf.net/ >.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: java 5 could like python?

2005-01-15 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
vegetax  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>For example if i remember a function i want ie:get attribute, i dont
>remember if the module implementer coded it as
>getAttribute,GetAttribute,get_attribute, then i have to go and check the
>doc, every time,which is a waste of time.
.
.
.
Are you comfortable using the base interpreter's built-in 
interactive facilities, such as help()?  I strongly urge 
you to exercise these for at least a few minutes.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 15)

2005-01-15 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "Python:  it tastes so good it makes you hungrier." -- EP

"I don't consider 'throws Exception' to be sloppy, I consider it to be
programmers voting with their feet." -- Roy Smith


The Centre for Epidemiology and Research has released a high-quality
suite of Python-based "Network-enabled epidemiology" tools.  Among
other packages, NetEpi leverages MxDateTime, Albatross, Numeric
Python, pyPGSQL, and RPy:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-December/257928.html

Bengt Richter and John Lenton expertly handle binary data, the
latter through reliance on mmap:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d9d74e3df5b7495d/

When tackling tedious capabilities like SSL, experts know to 
leverage the work--Twisted, Medusa, Apache, ...--of others:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/e0ae7d7e43dc606

When tackling tedious capabilities like FASTA, experts know to
leverage the work--biopython, mmap, gdbm, ...--of others:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/cf9949fce8d51e7e/

So, you're on a desert island, no credit card, no modern OS,
nothing but a thin telnet to the universal IP cloud--you can
still practice Python:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c6e33ffbc0726732

twander 3.160 boasts ... well, read for yourself the details
of this quite-cool filesystem browser:
http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander

No, you do NOT really want XQuery:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/86afefc7cdad4f6d/

Paul McGuire soberly illustrates pyparse's place in programming:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/387915357b5eb524



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
that base their business on ... Python."
http://www.python-in-business.org

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old

Re: Why 'r' mode anyway?

2005-01-15 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tim Peters  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>reading up the bits in the index and offsets too, etc.  IIRC, Unix was
>actually quite novel at the time in insisting that all files were just
>raw byte streams to the OS.
Not just "novel", but "puzzling" and even "controversial".
It was far from clear that the Unix way could be successful.
.
.
.
>but generally where it's reasonably easy to hide.  It's not easy to
>hide native file conventions, partly because Python wouldn't play well
>with *other* platform software if it did.
>
>Remember that Guido worked on ABC before Python, and Python is in
>(small) part a reaction against the extremes of ABC.  ABC was 100%
>platform-independent.  You could read and write files from ABC.
>However, the only files you could read from ABC were files that were
>written by ABC -- and files written by ABC were essentially unusable
>by other software.  Socket semantics were also 100% portable in ABC: 
>it didn't have sockets, nor any way to extend the language to add
>them.  Etc -- ABC was a self-contained universe.  "Plays well with
>others" was a strong motivator for Python's design, and that often
>means playing by others' rules.

At a slightly different level, that--not playing well enough
with others--is what held Smalltalk back.  Again, a lot of
this stuff wasn't obvious at the time, even as late as 1990.
I think we understand better now that languages are secondary,
in that good developers can be productive with all sorts of
syntaxes and semantics; as a practical matter, daily struggles
have to do with the libraries or how the languages access what
is outside themselves.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: reusing Tkinter Canvases

2005-01-15 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Sean McIlroy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'd like to save one Tkinter Canvas in order to use it on another
>Canvas later. The problem is that it gets saved as EPS but it needs to
>be GIF to be reuseable. How can I convert that format?
.
.
.
There's probably a snappy answer to this, but I don't know it.

There certainly are EPS -> GIF converters, if you truly want to
go that way.  In the Tk tradition, there are two main approaches
to this need:
1.  Use the Img extension, which knows how to render
Canvases as .gif (and much else);
2.  "Serialize" the canvas, and re-render it.

Img is a venerable Tk extension, with a long, distinguished,
history.  It's not in the core only because of administrative
issues not of interest here.  It ought to work fine with
Tkinter--but I know of no one who's succeeded in the attempt.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: java 5 could like python?

2005-01-15 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bengt Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>This triggers a thought: Some are more passive about exploring than others,
>and think there's nothing to be seen except what's pointed at. Sad for them,
>but they need help too. One hopes the tutorial stuff will reawaken natural
>pleasure in finding out neat stuff. After all, they came to the right place :-)
>But back to my point (it's coming ;-) [1] ...
.
.
.
>What if help(something) didn't immediately give up with that last message?
>If instead it looked for helpex.py on the path, and invoked
>helpex(something) if found?
>That way, people could easily experiment with site-specific help
>extensions. ISTR a shell in the
.
.
.
I wonder if your proposal is better targeted at IPython
(for example) than base Python.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Checking for X availability

2005-01-16 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Nils Nordman  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 03:32:01AM -0800, Flavio codeco coelho wrote:
>> So my question is: how can I check for the availability of X? i.e.,
>> How will my program know if its running in a text only console or in
>> console window over X?
>
>Well, one way to do it is to check whether the environment variable
>DISPLAY is set (which it is when running under X, and should not be
>otherwise).
.
.
.
While there certainly are successful programs that use this
approach, it's NOT true in general--at least in the generality
I encounter.  It can happen, for example, that a user withOUT
$DISPLAY in the environment launches

  interesting_application -display SOME_DISPLAY ...

Jeremy Bowers gives excellent advice elsewhere in this thread:
try, and use exceptions to learn what's going on; as you learn
more, relaunch the application with a refined command-line.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: PyChecker messages

2005-01-16 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Roger Binns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>> runner.py:200: Function (detectMimeType) has too many returns (11)
>>
>> The function is simply a long "else-if" clause, branching out to different
>> return statements. What's wrong? It's simply a "probably ugly code" advice?
>
>That is also advice.  Generally you use a dict of functions, or some other
>structure to lookup what you want to do.
.
.
.
This interests me.  Let's be more precise.

Use, it's absolutely true that good Python style exploits dicts
far more than newcomers realize (although somewhat less than Lua,
a language which intriguingly pushes dictionary pragmatics to the
limit).  In particular, it is frequently the case that beginners'
appetite for a "switch" is best met by a lesson in use of a 
dictionary of functions.

HOWEVER, proliferation of functions itself adds weight.  My own
counsel is that a simple sequence of

  if ...
return ...
  if ...
return ...

often is exactly the right definition for a specific function.
I, incidentally, prefer this form over the 

  if ...
return ...
  elif ...
return ...

the original poster described.

So:  yes, "[g]enerally you use a dict of functions" when PyChecker
thinks you have "too many returns", but I do NOT advise it for the
specific case that appears to be at hand.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: PyChecker messages

2005-01-17 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ben Sizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>But you could use a dict of return values, or even just assigning a
>different return value in each if clause. The end result is that you
>have a single well-defined exit point from the function, which is
>generally considered to be preferable.
>

Well, no; I'm trying to say exactly that there are times when "a dict
of return values" only adds complexity.  Or perhaps I'm missing a bet-
way to code:

  def condition_label():
if x13.fluid_level() > lower_threshhold:
  return "OK"
if user in restricted_list:
  return "Ask for help"
if not current_time.in_range(beginning, end):
  return "Uncorrectable exception reported"
...

When conditions live in a space with higher dimensionality than any
handy immutable range, no dict-ification is a benefit.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 15)

2005-01-17 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "Python:  it tastes so good it makes you hungrier." -- EP

"I don't consider 'throws Exception' to be sloppy, I consider it to be
programmers voting with their feet." -- Roy Smith


The Centre for Epidemiology and Research has released a high-quality
suite of Python-based "Network-enabled epidemiology" tools.  Among
other packages, NetEpi leverages MxDateTime, Albatross, Numeric
Python, pyPGSQL, and RPy:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-December/257928.html

Bengt Richter and John Lenton expertly handle binary data, the
latter through reliance on mmap:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d9d74e3df5b7495d/

When tackling tedious capabilities like SSL, experts know to 
leverage the work--Twisted, Medusa, Apache, ...--of others:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/e0ae7d7e43dc606

When tackling tedious capabilities like FASTA, experts know to
leverage the work--biopython, mmap, gdbm, ...--of others:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/cf9949fce8d51e7e/

So, you're on a desert island, no credit card, no modern OS,
nothing but a thin telnet to the universal IP cloud--you can
still practice Python:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c6e33ffbc0726732

twander 3.160 boasts ... well, read for yourself the details
of this quite-cool filesystem browser:
http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander

No, you do NOT really want XQuery:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/86afefc7cdad4f6d/

Paul McGuire soberly illustrates pyparse's place in programming:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/387915357b5eb524



Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
that base their business on ... Python."
http://www.python-in-business.org

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
http://python.de/backend.php
For more, see
http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
The old

Re: script to automate GUI application (newbie)

2005-01-18 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>It sounds like a case for the Expect program, to me.  Try Google-ing
>for "Expect".  If you are looking for a Python approach, then try
>googling for "Expect Python".
>
>Jim
>

No--that is, I find his description unambiguous in NOT allowing
for "keyboard control", which is Expect's domain.  Expect, of
any flavor, will not help.

Along with the Java-savvy solutions already mentioned, several
general-purpose record-playback tools are available for Windows.
http://wiki.tcl.tk/8813 > mentions several.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Another scripting language implemented into Python itself?

2005-01-25 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Orlando Vazquez  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
>snip
>
>> Because you cannot make Python secure against a malicious (or ignorant) 
>> user -- there's too much flexibility to be able to guard against every 
>> possible way in which user-code could harm the system. Parsing your own 
>> (limited) scripting language allows much better control over what 
>> user-code is capable of doing, and therefore allows (at least some 
>> measure of) security against malicious code.
>
>I don't see how that would equate to something that the original 
>programmer should be concerned about. You could include a bit in your 
>licensing scheme that voids all support on code that has been modified 
>in any way. You shouldn't be obligated and no one expects you to support 
>something the end-user has mucked with.
>
>You could trivially enforce this by keeping checksums of all the system 
>files.
>
>In any case, there's nothing you can really do to "secure" your code. 
>This is true of any language, C, C++, and especially scripting languages 
>like Python. Anyone who has the determination get at and modify the code 
>probably will.
>
>The only time where I can see someone using another language in place of 
>Python for a scripting language is just domain-specific factors, e.g. if 
>you need the extension language to be easily used non-programmers.
.
.
.
I think there's a bit of "talking past" each other.
There's a serious issue here that I suspect Mr. 
Vazquez misunderstood.  I'll try to illustrate:

The original poster wants to work in Python.  That's
fine.  Several of us have suggested he further
expose Python itself to his end-users as an extension
language.  That certainly is feasible.  He needn't
explain all of Python to those end-users--probably 
only a bit about "assignments", control structures,
and maybe lists.  

That approach creates a sort of fragility, though.
Python includes, along with much else, os.unlink().
Suppose our original poster doesn't want end-users
to be able to delete files (or directories ...).
That particular design decision is NOT particularly
apt for a licensing specification, much as I generally
favor trust in the latter; don't-delete-filesystem-
entries is simply too low-level to admit good 
expression in legal language.  More broadly, the 
model of "end-users mucking around" captures the
range of concerns only poorly.

This is a serious issue.

It's also one that brings Tcl, mentioned several
times in this thread, back into focus.  Tcl presents
the notion of "safe interpreter", that is, a sub-
ordinate virtual machine which can interpret only
specific commands.  It's a thrillingly powerful and
correct solution to the main problem Jeff and others
have described.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Another scripting language implemented into Python itself?

2005-01-25 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>> Python, or Perl, or TCL, or Ruby, or PHP,
>
>Not PHP.  PHP is one of the better (meaning less terrible) examples of
>what happens when you do this sort of thing, which is not saying a lot.
>PHP was originally not much more than a template engine with some
>crude operations and decision-making ability.  Only its restricted
>problem domain has saved it from the junkheap where it belongs.
>
>TCL isn't that great in this regard, either, as it makes a lot of
>common operations that ought to be very simple terribly unweildy.
.
.
.
I've lost track of the antecedent by the time of our arrival at
"this regard".  I want to make it clear that, while Tcl certainly
is different from C and its imitators, and, in particular, insists
that arithmetic be expressed more verbosely than in most languages,
the cause is quite distinct from the imperfections perceived in 
PHP.  PHP is certainly an instance of "scope creep" in its semantics.
Tcl was designed from the beginning, though, and has budged little in
over a decade in its fundamentals; Tcl simply doesn't bother to "make
a lot of common operations ..." concise.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Another scripting language implemented into Python itself?

2005-01-25 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Quest Master  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>I know C/C++ might be better suited for a task of this kind, but most
>of the modules in my application which need speed have already been
>coded in C++. I want to use Python as the "glue" for this project;
.
.
.
I've lost track of what "this kind" means here; why do you
think C/C++ is a better language for writing a language
interpreter?  Is it because, for example, Python's interpre-
ter has traditionally been written in C?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: limited python virtual machine (WAS: Another scripting language implemented into Python itself?)

2005-01-25 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michael Spencer  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Right - the crux of the problem is how to identify dangerous objects.  My 
>point 
>is that if such as test is possible, then safe exec is very easily implemented 
>within current Python. If it is not, then it is essentially impossible.
>
>Let's assume that it is indeed not possible to know in general whether
>an object 
>is safe, either by inspecting its attributes, or by matching its identity 
>against a black list.
>
>It might still be possible to have a reliable test within a problem-specific 
>domain i.e., white-listing.  This, I think, is what you meant when you said:
>
>> I wish there was a way to, say, exec something with no builtins and
>with import disabled, so you would have to specify all the available
>bindings, e.g.:
>> 
>> exec user_code in dict(ClassA=ClassA, ClassB=ClassB) 
>
>I believe that if you can come up with a white-list, then the rest of the 
>problem is easy.
>
>Michael
>

I'll suggest yet another perspective:  add another indirection.
As the virtual machine becomes more available to introspection,
it might become natural to define a *very* restricted interpreter
which we can all agree is safe, PLUS a means to extend that 
specific instance of the VM with, say, new definitions of bindings
for particular AST nodes.  Then the developer has the means to
"build out" his own VM in a way he can judge useful and safe for
his own situation.  Rather than the Java there-is-one-"safe"-for-
all approach, Pythoneers would have the tools to create safety.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Another scripting language implemented into Python itself?

2005-01-25 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>worrying about Python security seems superfluous.  Why worry, for instance, 
>about os.unlink when the user can just do the same much easier in a text or 
>gui shell?
.
.
.
It's an apt question--and one with several answers.  I'll
hint at the range by observing that part of security has
to do with prevention not of malicious acts, but of common
mistakes.  I entirely agree with you that it's crucial to
think of wider context, and whether a particular choice's
costs are worth its benefits.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Please suggest on the book to follow

2005-01-27 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Fuzzyman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>We've only just had Python 2.4. Based on previous experience that means
>it will be about 18 months before python 2.5.
>
>I learned to program from 'Programming Python'. Particularly the stuff
>on Tkinter is very helpful. I don't think you'll have much to
>'unlearn', although obviously there is stuff it doesn't cover (like new
>style classes).
.
.
.
Python is considerate of programmers.  While experience with commercial
products might lead to an expectation that 2.0 and 2.4 differ greatly,
in fact it's quite feasible to learn from books aimed at 1.5 or even
before, and have your results work perfectly well under 2.4.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Point of Sale

2005-01-27 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Andreas Pauley  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>My company has given me a rather cool project:
>I have to provide them with an open-source python-based point-of-sale / 
>cash register system that can integrate with their existing ERP backend.
>
>The project will include development to ensure that the features they 
>require are included in the open-source POS system.
>
>Can you recommend anything that I can use?
.
.
.
Research.  I think you're expecting an answer of the "I used
open-source openPOS project, and it worked great for me", but
I suspect all that is premature.  What does POS mean to you?
What are your platform constraints?  Does your company have
expectations about how POS will work?  What access (CORBA?
RMI?  SOAP? ...) is there to the ERP?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Another scripting language implemented into Python itself?

2005-01-27 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Arthur  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>As long as we include the cost of treating adults as children, and
>take it seriously as the kind of cost it is, I'm OK.
>
>I think Terry's point covers a wide range of the real world
>situations. Though certainly not all.
>
>My "real" life is in the mid-market business world, not as a geometry
>software developer.  And I see a sort of hysteria descending, in this
>realm on this subject. Of theY2k ilk, but with actually, it seems to
>me, less substance.  Family businesses out on the limb, as a business,
>in a myriad of ways - because they are after all in business, focusing
>on remote scenarios because they are somehow becoming convinced that
>is what business people do (they don't), and demoralizing folks in the
>process.  Folks who know that if they wanted to hurt this business
>they could have done so a hundred times in a hundred ways over the
>years.  But it wouldn't be by screwing with their computer system
>because they wouldn't know how. So isn't it funny that is what the
>boss is so concerned about - all of a sudden? 
>
>(They always knew they were smarter then him. More proof)
>
>Art
>
> 

Pronouns quickly overload me.  If you're saying that there's hysteria
afoot, much of it about the harm that might come through use of
computers left unprotected from evildoers, well, yes, I'm with you.
Most people have far more important hazards in their lives and work
than "security violations" as we technologists generally conceive them.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Entirely off-topic personal grumble unrelated to original poster (was: Point of Sale)

2005-01-27 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Andreas Pauley  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>Actually I just mean that I'm not looking for a 100% feature-fit, if I get 
>a 70% fit I'll jump in and develop the other 30%.
.
.
.
I keep winning contracts where something is a 70% fit, and
all I have to do is finish the other 85%.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Please suggest on the book to follow

2005-01-27 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
santanu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>>From what you and Fyzzyman said, I guess when I am done with
>Programming Python, graduating to the latest features would
>be quite easy. Isn't it?
.
.
.
Yes.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 28)

2005-01-28 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "It might be nice if it was widely understood (in IT) that Python was
a language any competent programmer could pick up in an afternoon, such that
Java, C, and Perl shops would not be concerned about the need for their staff
to learn a new language." -- Eric Pederson

"What's kind of surprising is that it has turned out to be easier to rewire
the entire world for high-bandwidth Internet than it is to make a good
replication architecture so you can work disconnected!" --  Joel
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/12/09/spolsky/index4.html


It's the Early Bird deadline for PyCon 2005!

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5a0eef8d2f4b41c6

A wide-ranging thread on "security" yields, among other high
points, a recommendation to read *Security Engineering* and
examples of real security issues Python has:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a5ab5a6a91590230/

Can Python operate on a Windows "desktop"?  Sure, in a variety of
ways.  Thanks to Dennis Benzinger, Jimmy Retzlaff, Vincent Wehren,
and others for their catalogue:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f73cc8e9cad01288/

The martellibot illustrates why Python's introspection--and
__subclasses__, in particular--make correct "sandboxing" so
challenging for us:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d5f4d7e2c397c2ca/

After a rest of a couple months, it's time again to urge
consideration of IPython as your working shell:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3fed261a83318a1e

4XSLT is thread-safe, but individual processor instances are not.
4Suite exploits processor-per-thread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c118d6ead64ca003

Thread inheritance with win32com requires Co*nitialize() management:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3e3487f970825fc8

Gerald and the timbot speak sense on the platform-specificity that
is memory management.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/2bef18c56f085eeb

Do NOT let your inheritance schemes complexify.  One palliative
tactic is to remember (lazy) "containerization" as an alternative
to subclassing.  And learn about decorators.  And descriptors, for
that matter:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/730e4e3bb3c55b28/

Do people still FTP?  Well, Python people *can* ...:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/37b847a725bd8d9f


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
that base their business on ... Python."
http://www.python-in-business.org

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and main

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 28)

2005-01-28 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW:  "It might be nice if it was widely understood (in IT) that Python was
a language any competent programmer could pick up in an afternoon, such that
Java, C, and Perl shops would not be concerned about the need for their staff
to learn a new language." -- Eric Pederson

"What's kind of surprising is that it has turned out to be easier to rewire
the entire world for high-bandwidth Internet than it is to make a good
replication architecture so you can work disconnected!" --  Joel
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/12/09/spolsky/index4.html


It's the Early Bird deadline for PyCon 2005!

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5a0eef8d2f4b41c6

A wide-ranging thread on "security" yields, among other high
points, a recommendation to read *Security Engineering* and
examples of real security issues Python has:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a5ab5a6a91590230/

Can Python operate on a Windows "desktop"?  Sure, in a variety of
ways.  Thanks to Dennis Benzinger, Jimmy Retzlaff, Vincent Wehren,
and others for their catalogue:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f73cc8e9cad01288/

The martellibot illustrates why Python's introspection--and
__subclasses__, in particular--make correct "sandboxing" so
challenging for us:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d5f4d7e2c397c2ca/

After a rest of a couple months, it's time again to urge
consideration of IPython as your working shell:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3fed261a83318a1e

4XSLT is thread-safe, but individual processor instances are not.
4Suite exploits processor-per-thread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c118d6ead64ca003

Thread inheritance with win32com requires Co*nitialize() management:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/3e3487f970825fc8

Gerald and the timbot speak sense on the platform-specificity that
is memory management.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/2bef18c56f085eeb

Do NOT let your inheritance schemes complexify.  One palliative
tactic is to remember (lazy) "containerization" as an alternative
to subclassing.  And learn about decorators.  And descriptors, for
that matter:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/730e4e3bb3c55b28/

Do people still FTP?  Well, Python people *can* ...:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/37b847a725bd8d9f


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
that base their business on ... Python."
http://www.python-in-business.org

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and main

Re: Coding style article with interesting section on white space

2005-01-29 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>One ought to do a little research before publishing an article.
>Apparently, many authors and editors are too lazy to do so.
>

... and/or ignorant or uncultured.  Also, don't forget to excoriate 
the publishers and editors, too cheap and/or otherwise constrained
to edit/fact-check/review/...
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: variable declaration

2005-01-31 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Robert Brewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Bah. Nothing teaches you a new language like having your job depend upon
>> it. People who study languages merely for "personal growth" learn 50% of
>> the syntax and 1% of the concepts, and then fritter that learning away
>> on inconsequential newsgroups the world over.
>
>I disagree.  I studied Python, even though it had nothing to do with my
>job, just with the idea of using it on hobby projects; yet I believe I
>can reasonably claim to have learned more than 50% of the syntax and 1%
>of the concepts, even though you might claim that, whatever percentage
>it may be, it's "frittered away on inconsequential newsgroups".
>
>
>Alex

We learned long ago to treat you, Alex, as an exception.
While it's rather unpythonic to have implicit rules, let's
forgive Robert for failing to mention the one that regards
you as an outlier for inferential purposes.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 1)

2005-01-31 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "The right solution will end up being unique to Python though. It has
to feel like Python." -- Guido van Rossum
http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2005/01/amazon_devcon_g_4.html

"Sparring with Alex Martelli is like boxing Mike Tyson, except that one
experiences brain enhancement rather than brain damage :)." -- beliavsky


This is your opportunity to vote on the prospective creation of 
de.comp.lang.python:

http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=erneuter-CfV-1-Einrichtung-de.comp.lang.python-16.1.2005-Supersede%40dana.de
http://gvv.th-h.de/

eval() often inverts repr().  pickle() makes for more reliable
serialization:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f4324fe8aa00f7f5/

Kamilche illustrates how scripting (Web-scraping, in this case)
can put eBay (Google, Amazon, ...) under *your* control:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1b0d7ebb06c49272

Tim Churches pulls off the remarkable feat of appearing to say
true, useful, and not-stultifying things on licensing:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a1e07194c795f505/

How declarative are metaclasses and decorators?  Diez B. Roggisch
has been helpful with this and similarly interesting summaries and
examples:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a75da70b0845b6fe/
Art Siegel also approaches the question, in a more narrative
fashion.  Notice in the same thread Steve Holden's persistent
advertising of PyCon 2005, emphasizing the celebrities (martellibot!,
Armin "I Infer That" Rigo, ...) expected to appear, some for the
first time ever in this dimension.

Nick Coghlan explains the trickiness of Duncan Booth and F. 
PetitJean.  This is a chance to practice generators, zip,
map, and iter, all in about two lines:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a6ba37b0fb0fa69e

Do you know the standard library well enough to recognize its
parametric statistics?

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1ddd1e869fe6e08a/


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
that base their business on ... Python."
http://www.python-in-business.org

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.ac

Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 1)

2005-02-01 Thread Cameron Laird
QOTW: "The right solution will end up being unique to Python though. It has
to feel like Python." -- Guido van Rossum
http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2005/01/amazon_devcon_g_4.html

"Sparring with Alex Martelli is like boxing Mike Tyson, except that one
experiences brain enhancement rather than brain damage :)." -- beliavsky


This is your opportunity to vote on the prospective creation of 
de.comp.lang.python:

http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=erneuter-CfV-1-Einrichtung-de.comp.lang.python-16.1.2005-Supersede%40dana.de
http://gvv.th-h.de/

eval() often inverts repr().  pickle() makes for more reliable
serialization:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f4324fe8aa00f7f5/

Kamilche illustrates how scripting (Web-scraping, in this case)
can put eBay (Google, Amazon, ...) under *your* control:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1b0d7ebb06c49272

Tim Churches pulls off the remarkable feat of appearing to say
true, useful, and not-stultifying things on licensing:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a1e07194c795f505/

How declarative are metaclasses and decorators?  Diez B. Roggisch
has been helpful with this and similarly interesting summaries and
examples:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a75da70b0845b6fe/
Art Siegel also approaches the question, in a more narrative
fashion.  Notice in the same thread Steve Holden's persistent
advertising of PyCon 2005, emphasizing the celebrities (martellibot!,
Armin "I Infer That" Rigo, ...) expected to appear, some for the
first time ever in this dimension.

Nick Coghlan explains the trickiness of Duncan Booth and F. 
PetitJean.  This is a chance to practice generators, zip,
map, and iter, all in about two lines:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a6ba37b0fb0fa69e

Do you know the standard library well enough to recognize its
parametric statistics?

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1ddd1e869fe6e08a/


Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
center of Pythonia
http://www.python.org
Notice especially the master FAQ
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
marvelous daily python url
 http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
 http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
their results.

comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
http://www.python.org/pypi/

The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
to all sorts of Python resources.
http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
mailing lists
http://www.python.org/sigs/

The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
that base their business on ... Python."
http://www.python-in-business.org

Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
http://www.pythonology.com/success

The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
http://www.python.org/psf/
Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
   
Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

Python FAQTS
http://python.faqts.com/

The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
interesting recipes.
http://aspn.ac

Re: Database recommendations for Windows app

2005-06-22 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
.
.
>> You wouldn't have to distribute the (rather expensive) Access application
>> since this is little more than a front for the underlying DAO/ADO database
>> libraries that are built into the warp and woof of MS Windows.  Your Python
>> application can address the DAO or ADO directly as these will libraries will
>> be pre-installed and/or freely available for MS Windows.  Fast, freely
>> available, no license restrictions, and no need for extra downloads for a
>> reasonably recent (Win2000, XP) operating system.
>> 
>
>And then XP Autoupdate executes, some of those Access/MSDE libraries are 
>updated, and you app is broken.

Are you saying that Python-based applications are particularly
vulnerable in this all-too-common scenario?  If so, I'm not
getting it; why is the architecture described more fragile than
more traditional Windows-oriented development patterns?  If not,
then, ... well then I truly don't get your point.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: Database recommendations for Windows app

2005-06-22 Thread Cameron Laird
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 6/22/2005 1:14 PM, Dave Cook wrote:
>> On 2005-06-22, Cameron Laird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>Are you saying that Python-based applications are particularly
>>>vulnerable in this all-too-common scenario?  If so, I'm not
>>>getting it; why is the architecture described more fragile than
>>>more traditional Windows-oriented development patterns?  If not,
>>>then, ... well then I truly don't get your point.
>> 
>> 
>> Maybe the point is the downside of depending on installed DLLs rather than
>> shipping your own.
>> 
>> Dave Cook
>
>Yes, DLL hell.

?

OK, I'm with you part of the way.  Typical "Access" developers 
are *always* involved with DLL hell, right?  You're surely not
saying that Python worsens that frustration, are you?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   >