Re: [mailop] BT Internet Blocks

[Sidsel Jensen]

Hi Andrew

We also face problems escalating issues through postmas...@btinternet.com 
 :-/
If you do manage to get hold of them - please share how ;-)

We currently have a pile of mails to btinternet being with stuck in queue due 
to the same Defer msg that you get.

Is there a good way to get an relatively new sending-IPs validated with 
btinternet?
Our IPs have been warmed up nicely and when checking with senderscore.com 
 the score is 98

Our problem is that not all our customers have an SPF record, we do DKIM sign 
everything though.

Kind Regards,
Sidsel Jensen
Systems Engineer @ One.com 
s...@one.com 


> On 9 Nov 2017, at 01.35, Andrew Gosney  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone from BT on this forum or has anyone had any experience escalating 
> issues with BT? I’ve been going back and forth with postmaster for weeks with 
> no resolution.
> 
> Our issue is we keep receiving the following rejections:
> 
> -  Too many messages (1.5.6.2) on 2017/10/27 01:10:05 BST from 
> un-validated IP address:. Please add a SPF record for the domain to your DNS 
> or ask your Broadband Provider / Domain Registrar to do this, we will be 
> unable to deliver email until this is done due to the volume of email being 
> sent from this IP address. Guide for bulk senders www.bt.com/bulksender 
> 
> -  Policy (1.3.6.1) Too much SPAM received from on 2017/10/27 
> 08:32:20 BST, if you share a mail server consider moving to a dedicated mail 
> server not sending SPAM. Guide for bulk senders www.bt.com/bulksender 
> 
> 
> I have confirmed there is no issues with spf and all other bulk sender 
> requirements are ok and our IP isn’t on any of the blacklists BT utilize.
> 
> Any assistance would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Andrew Gosney m: +61 407 840 584  www.mimecast.com 
> 
> Senior Messaging Security Analyst (L3)p: +61 3 9017 5101  Address 
> click here 
> <117110900353702143.png> 
> 
> <117110900353701343.png> 
> 
> <117110900353701143.gif> 
> 
> <117110900353701943.png> 
> 
> <117110900353701543.png> 
> 
> <117110900353702343.gif> 
> 
> 
> 
> <117110900353701743.gif> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disclaimer
> The information contained in this communication from agos...@mimecast.com 
>  sent at 2017-11-09 00:35:37 is confidential and 
> may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for use by mailop@mailop.org 
>  and others authorized to receive it. If you are 
> not mailop@mailop.org  you are hereby notified that 
> any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the 
> contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> 
> This email message has been scanned for viruses by Mimecast. Mimecast 
> delivers a complete managed email solution from a single web based platform. 
> For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> mailop mailing list
> mailop@mailop.org 
> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop 
> 












signature.asc

Re: [mailop] BT Internet Blocks

[Renaud Allard via mailop]

Hello,

Do you publish DMARC records? It might help to set those up if you 
haven't already.


Best Regards

On 09/11/17 10:28, Sidsel Jensen wrote:

Hi Andrew

We also face problems escalating issues through 
postmas...@btinternet.com  :-/

If you do manage to get hold of them - please share how ;-)

We currently have a pile of mails to btinternet being with stuck in 
queue due to the same Defer msg that you get.


Is there a good way to get an relatively new sending-IPs validated with 
btinternet?
Our IPs have been warmed up nicely and when checking with 
senderscore.com  the score is 98


Our problem is that not all our customers have an SPF record, we do DKIM 
sign everything though.


Kind Regards,
Sidsel Jensen
Systems Engineer @ One.com 
s...@one.com 


On 9 Nov 2017, at 01.35, Andrew Gosney > wrote:



Hi all,
Is anyone from BT on this forum or has anyone had any experience 
escalating issues with BT? I’ve been going back and forth with 
postmaster for weeks with no resolution.

Our issue is we keep receiving the following rejections:
-/Too many messages (1.5.6.2) on 2017/10/27 01:10:05 BST from 
un-validated IP address:. Please add a SPF record for the domain to 
your DNS or ask your Broadband Provider / Domain Registrar to do this, 
we will be unable to deliver email until this is done due to the 
volume of email being sent from this IP address. Guide for bulk 
senderswww.bt.com/bulksender /

//
-/Policy (1.3.6.1) Too much SPAM received from on 2017/10/27 08:32:20 
BST, if you share a mail server consider moving to a dedicated mail 
server not sending SPAM. Guide for bulk senderswww.bt.com/bulksender 
/
I have confirmed there is no issues with spf and all other bulk sender 
requirements are ok and our IP isn’t on any of the blacklists BT utilize.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
Thanks


Andrew Gosney	m: +61 407 840 584	www.mimecast.com 

Senior Messaging Security Analyst (L3)	p: +61 3 9017 5101	Address 
clickhere 


<117110900353702143.png> 



<117110900353701343.png> 




<117110900353701143.gif> 




<117110900353701943.png> 




<117110900353701543.png> 




<117110900353702343.gif> 





<117110900353701743.gif> 





*Disclaimer*
The information contained in this communication 
from*agos...@mimecast.com *sent at 
2017-11-09 00:35:37 is confidential and may be legally privileged. It 
is intended solely for use by*mailop@mailop.org 
*and others authorized to receive it. If you 
are not*mailop@mailop.org *you are hereby 
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action 
in reliance of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited 
and may be unlawful.


This email message has been scanned for viruses by Mimecast. Mimecast 
delivers a complete managed email solution from a single web based 
platform. For more information please visithttp://www.mimecast.com 






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h

Re: [mailop] BT Internet Blocks

[Dan Malm]

Hi

If what you're asking is if we're publishing DMARC records for all our
customers domain, then the answer is both yes we do, and no we don't. We
publish DMARC if the customers have added DMARC themselves (we're a
shared hosting provider. Customers can add the DNS records they wish to
have). We do not automatically add DMARC or SPF records to any domain as
that will affect email delivery if they use any other servers to send
email (as many do). But we do publish DKIM keys and DKIM sign as there
are no adverse effects from that.

The domains affected by the "Too many messages" issues we see are
exclusively domains that have either:
- no SPF records
- SPF records that does not include our mail servers
- broken/invalid SPF records

The defer always comes after the MAIL FROM command.

@Andrew: You say "I have confirmed there is no issues with spf" what SPF
is that? From my experience the SPF record refered to in the "Too many
messages" error is the SPF record of the domain in the MAIL FROM command
and nothing else. So the SPF for mimecast.com wouldn't matter if you
send from @yourcustomer.tld

We've tried contacting btinternet (@postmaster and support) on several
occasions as this is a reoccurring issue with them, but the only answer
we've been able to get is that the sender address should have SPF.

-- 
BR/Mvh. Dan Malm, Systems Engineer, One.com

On 11/09/2017 10:40 AM, Renaud Allard via mailop wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Do you publish DMARC records? It might help to set those up if you
> haven't already.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> On 09/11/17 10:28, Sidsel Jensen wrote:
>> Hi Andrew
>>
>> We also face problems escalating issues through
>> postmas...@btinternet.com  :-/
>> If you do manage to get hold of them - please share how ;-)
>>
>> We currently have a pile of mails to btinternet being with stuck in
>> queue due to the same Defer msg that you get.
>>
>> Is there a good way to get an relatively new sending-IPs validated
>> with btinternet?
>> Our IPs have been warmed up nicely and when checking with
>> senderscore.com  the score is 98
>>
>> Our problem is that not all our customers have an SPF record, we do
>> DKIM sign everything though.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Sidsel Jensen
>> Systems Engineer @ One.com 
>> s...@one.com 
>>
>>
>>> On 9 Nov 2017, at 01.35, Andrew Gosney >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Is anyone from BT on this forum or has anyone had any experience
>>> escalating issues with BT? I’ve been going back and forth with
>>> postmaster for weeks with no resolution.
>>> Our issue is we keep receiving the following rejections:
>>> -/Too many messages (1.5.6.2) on 2017/10/27 01:10:05 BST from
>>> un-validated IP address:. Please add a SPF record for the domain to
>>> your DNS or ask your Broadband Provider / Domain Registrar to do
>>> this, we will be unable to deliver email until this is done due to
>>> the volume of email being sent from this IP address. Guide for bulk
>>> senderswww.bt.com/bulksender /
>>> //
>>> -/Policy (1.3.6.1) Too much SPAM received from on 2017/10/27 08:32:20
>>> BST, if you share a mail server consider moving to a dedicated mail
>>> server not sending SPAM. Guide for bulk senderswww.bt.com/bulksender
>>> /
>>> I have confirmed there is no issues with spf and all other bulk
>>> sender requirements are ok and our IP isn’t on any of the blacklists
>>> BT utilize.
>>> Any assistance would be appreciated.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew Gosney    m: +61 407 840 584    www.mimecast.com
>>> 
>>> Senior Messaging Security Analyst (L3)    p: +61 3 9017 5101   
>>> Address clickhere 
>>> 
>>> <117110900353702143.png> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <117110900353701343.png>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> <117110900353701143.gif>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> <117110900353701943.png>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> <117110900353701543.png>
>>> 

Re: [mailop] Delivery issue at Yahoo

[Felix Schwarz via mailop]

Am 07.11.2017 um 16:18 schrieb Jan Schapmans:
> We tried reaching out to yahoo but no response yet. 
> 
> We tried lowering some settings like emails/minute & max connections. I guess
> we just have to wait if this has any positive impact.

Any news? Did you see any impact.

We're seeing very similar patterns here and while Yahoo accepts most of our
messages these rejections are a bit annoying.

It seems like the block seems to be account-specific not so much about IPs in
general. Maybe Yahoo started to use user-specific spam preferences during the
SMTP dialog?

regards,
Felix

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Re: [mailop] Delivery issue at Yahoo

[Lili Crowley]

responded off-list

thanks

Lili Crowley
AOL Postmaster


On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Felix Schwarz via mailop  wrote:

>
> Am 07.11.2017 um 16:18 schrieb Jan Schapmans:
> > We tried reaching out to yahoo but no response yet.
> >
> > We tried lowering some settings like emails/minute & max connections. I
> guess
> > we just have to wait if this has any positive impact.
>
> Any news? Did you see any impact.
>
> We're seeing very similar patterns here and while Yahoo accepts most of our
> messages these rejections are a bit annoying.
>
> It seems like the block seems to be account-specific not so much about IPs
> in
> general. Maybe Yahoo started to use user-specific spam preferences during
> the
> SMTP dialog?
>
> regards,
> Felix
>
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Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Emre Üst |euro . message|]

Hello Michael ,

Your support team no longer answers the tickets. We still keep getting the
4xx error as server busy.

When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?

Thank you


On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Michael Wise 
wrote:

>
>
> The AS codes are internal IDs, and are not ASNs.
>
> Each one means something different.
>
> Conflating the different codes is pretty much the same as saying, "My Mail
> Was Blocked!"
>
> It's not overly helpful in diagnosing the issue.
>
>
>
> Again, open a ticket; it's the only wat to get visibility on general
> issues.
>
>
>
>   https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid
>
>
>
> Aloha,
>
> Michael.
>
> --
>
> *Michael J Wise*
> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>
> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>
> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool
>  ?
>
>
>
> *From:* Maarten Oelering [mailto:maar...@postmastery.net]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 3, 2017 12:22 AM
> *To:* Benjamin BILLON 
> *Cc:* "Emre Üst |euro.message|" ; mailop@mailop.org;
> Michael Wise 
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some
>
>
>
> We are seeing this error on specific sender IPs. So “Server busy” may be
> intentionally and dependent on the sender.
>
> There are also many versions of this error, with at least 6 different AS
> codes. Some occur after MAIL FROM, some occur after RCPT TO, and some occur
> after DATA.
>
>
>
> Previously Hotmail said something like “We have limits for how many
> messages can be sent per hour and per day”. Very useful, you knew that
> reputation was the issue.
>
> Now we just see “Server busy” with an internal code, and we have to guess
> what’s wrong. It would be helpful to know more about these AS codes. Or at
> least which ones are sender issues and which ones receiver issues. This
> will also relieve Microsoft support I guess.
>
>
>
> Maarten Oelering
>
> Postmastery
>
>
>
> On 3 Nov 2017, at 07:49, Benjamin BILLON via mailop 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sorry to interrupt, I just have a suggestion that maybe Michael could
> forward internally: there used to have a Status page for various Microsoft
> services, it either moved to some secret place or was removed. There's now
> a page for Office365 clients (however being myself client the page
> generates an asp error, but that's not the purpose of my message).
>
>
>
> Could there be such a page somewhere again? If there are issues, just
> being aware of them will already help ESPs and senders to 1) be patient and
> 2) show to their clients or boss that yes, it happens, ISPs can have
> outages or problems too.
>
> I have no idea what format it would take, probably a "working / not
> working" flag wouldn't be very useful, unless it's service by service (but
> I don't think MS would disclose such level of details).
>
> Knowing if it's geographically limited could be interesting to.
>
>
>
> Is it a realistic suggestion, or should I put this dream in the shredder?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> --
>
> Benjamin
>
>
>
> 2017-11-03 14:19 GMT+08:00 Emre Üst |euro.message| :
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Yes we are still seeing same code .
>
> 2017-11-03 09:17:02 "451 4.7.500 Server busy. Please try again later
> from []. (AS3110)" received from hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com
> 
>  (104.47.5.33) matching /451 4.7.500 Server busy/
>
> We cant send even 1000 mails to Hotmail per day .
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Michael Wise 
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> This may be related to an incident a few days ago.
>
> Are you still seeing the 4xx retry results?
>
>
>
> Aloha,
>
> Michael.
>
> --
>
> *Michael J Wise*
> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>
> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>
> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool
> 
>  ?
>
>
>
> *From:* Emre Üst |euro.message| [mailto:emre@euromsg.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:05 PM
> *To:* Michael Wise 
> *Cc:* mailop@mailop.org
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Michael ,
>
> Unfortunately , it doesnt work . Outlook Support team said that there is
> not blocking on their side .
>
> Although the ips are Returnpath certified. Sometimes we also get 421
> RP-001 (BAY004-MC2F28) errors. But mostly 451 4.7.500 Server busy.
> Meanwhile, on

Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Charles McKean]

Legal? Was that a threat? Do you have prior experience attacking a
lunatic asylum with a banana? Best of luck.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Emre Üst |euro.message|
 wrote:
> Hello Michael ,
>
> Your support team no longer answers the tickets. We still keep getting the
> 4xx error as server busy.
>
> When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?
>
> Thank you
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Michael Wise 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> The AS codes are internal IDs, and are not ASNs.
>>
>> Each one means something different.
>>
>> Conflating the different codes is pretty much the same as saying, "My Mail
>> Was Blocked!"
>>
>> It's not overly helpful in diagnosing the issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, open a ticket; it's the only wat to get visibility on general
>> issues.
>>
>>
>>
>>   https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid
>>
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Michael.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael J Wise
>> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>>
>> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>>
>> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Maarten Oelering [mailto:maar...@postmastery.net]
>> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 12:22 AM
>> To: Benjamin BILLON 
>> Cc: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" ; mailop@mailop.org;
>> Michael Wise 
>> Subject: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some
>>
>>
>>
>> We are seeing this error on specific sender IPs. So “Server busy” may be
>> intentionally and dependent on the sender.
>>
>> There are also many versions of this error, with at least 6 different AS
>> codes. Some occur after MAIL FROM, some occur after RCPT TO, and some occur
>> after DATA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Previously Hotmail said something like “We have limits for how many
>> messages can be sent per hour and per day”. Very useful, you knew that
>> reputation was the issue.
>>
>> Now we just see “Server busy” with an internal code, and we have to guess
>> what’s wrong. It would be helpful to know more about these AS codes. Or at
>> least which ones are sender issues and which ones receiver issues. This will
>> also relieve Microsoft support I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maarten Oelering
>>
>> Postmastery
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3 Nov 2017, at 07:49, Benjamin BILLON via mailop 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry to interrupt, I just have a suggestion that maybe Michael could
>> forward internally: there used to have a Status page for various Microsoft
>> services, it either moved to some secret place or was removed. There's now a
>> page for Office365 clients (however being myself client the page generates
>> an asp error, but that's not the purpose of my message).
>>
>>
>>
>> Could there be such a page somewhere again? If there are issues, just
>> being aware of them will already help ESPs and senders to 1) be patient and
>> 2) show to their clients or boss that yes, it happens, ISPs can have outages
>> or problems too.
>>
>> I have no idea what format it would take, probably a "working / not
>> working" flag wouldn't be very useful, unless it's service by service (but I
>> don't think MS would disclose such level of details).
>>
>> Knowing if it's geographically limited could be interesting to.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it a realistic suggestion, or should I put this dream in the shredder?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Benjamin
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-03 14:19 GMT+08:00 Emre Üst |euro.message| :
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Yes we are still seeing same code .
>>
>> 2017-11-03 09:17:02 "451 4.7.500 Server busy. Please try again later
>> from []. (AS3110)" received from hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com
>> (104.47.5.33) matching /451 4.7.500 Server busy/
>>
>> We cant send even 1000 mails to Hotmail per day .
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Michael Wise 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> This may be related to an incident a few days ago.
>>
>> Are you still seeing the 4xx retry results?
>>
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Michael.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael J Wise
>> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>>
>> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>>
>> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Emre Üst |euro.message| [mailto:emre@euromsg.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:05 PM
>> To: Michael Wise 
>> Cc: mailop@mailop.org
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Michael ,
>>
>> Unfortunately , it doesnt work . Outlook Support team said that there is
>> not blocking on their side .
>>
>> Although the ips are Returnpath certified. Sometimes we also get 421
>> RP-001 (BAY004-MC2F28) errors. But mostly 451 4.7.500 Server busy.
>> Meanwhile, on snds I see that there is a lot of difference between the
>> number of RCPT fields and Message recipientss.
>>
>> For Exp.
>>
>>
>> RCPT
>> commands  111829
>>
>>
>>
>> DATA
>> commands 106093
>>
>>
>>
>> Message
>> recipients 1215
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Michael Wise 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Please open a ticket.
>>
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Luis E. Muñoz via mailop]

On 9 Nov 2017, at 13:33, Charles McKean wrote:


Legal? Was that a threat? Do you have prior experience attacking a
lunatic asylum with a banana? Best of luck.


I suspect^Whope this is a language thing.

Best regards

-lem



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Emre Üst |euro.message|
 wrote:

Hello Michael ,

Your support team no longer answers the tickets. We still keep 
getting the

4xx error as server busy.

When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?

Thank you


On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Michael Wise 


wrote:




The AS codes are internal IDs, and are not ASNs.

Each one means something different.

Conflating the different codes is pretty much the same as saying, 
"My Mail

Was Blocked!"

It's not overly helpful in diagnosing the issue.



Again, open a ticket; it's the only wat to get visibility on general
issues.



  https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid



Aloha,

Michael.

--

Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis

"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."

Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?



From: Maarten Oelering [mailto:maar...@postmastery.net]
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 12:22 AM
To: Benjamin BILLON 
Cc: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" ; 
mailop@mailop.org;

Michael Wise 
Subject: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with 
some




We are seeing this error on specific sender IPs. So “Server 
busy” may be

intentionally and dependent on the sender.

There are also many versions of this error, with at least 6 
different AS
codes. Some occur after MAIL FROM, some occur after RCPT TO, and 
some occur

after DATA.



Previously Hotmail said something like “We have limits for how 
many
messages can be sent per hour and per day”. Very useful, you knew 
that

reputation was the issue.

Now we just see “Server busy” with an internal code, and we have 
to guess
what’s wrong. It would be helpful to know more about these AS 
codes. Or at
least which ones are sender issues and which ones receiver issues. 
This will

also relieve Microsoft support I guess.



Maarten Oelering

Postmastery



On 3 Nov 2017, at 07:49, Benjamin BILLON via mailop 


wrote:



Sorry to interrupt, I just have a suggestion that maybe Michael 
could
forward internally: there used to have a Status page for various 
Microsoft
services, it either moved to some secret place or was removed. 
There's now a
page for Office365 clients (however being myself client the page 
generates

an asp error, but that's not the purpose of my message).



Could there be such a page somewhere again? If there are issues, 
just
being aware of them will already help ESPs and senders to 1) be 
patient and
2) show to their clients or boss that yes, it happens, ISPs can have 
outages

or problems too.

I have no idea what format it would take, probably a "working / not
working" flag wouldn't be very useful, unless it's service by 
service (but I

don't think MS would disclose such level of details).

Knowing if it's geographically limited could be interesting to.



Is it a realistic suggestion, or should I put this dream in the 
shredder?




Cheers,



--

Benjamin



2017-11-03 14:19 GMT+08:00 Emre Üst |euro.message| 
:


Hi Michael,

Yes we are still seeing same code .

2017-11-03 09:17:02 "451 4.7.500 Server busy. Please try again 
later
from []. (AS3110)" received from 
hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com

(104.47.5.33) matching /451 4.7.500 Server busy/

We cant send even 1000 mails to Hotmail per day .

Thank you





On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Michael Wise 


wrote:



This may be related to an incident a few days ago.

Are you still seeing the 4xx retry results?



Aloha,

Michael.

--

Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis

"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."

Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?



From: Emre Üst |euro.message| [mailto:emre@euromsg.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 1:05 PM
To: Michael Wise 
Cc: mailop@mailop.org


Subject: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with 
some






Hi Michael ,

Unfortunately , it doesnt work . Outlook Support team said that 
there is

not blocking on their side .

Although the ips are Returnpath certified. Sometimes we also get 421
RP-001 (BAY004-MC2F28) errors. But mostly 451 4.7.500 Server busy.
Meanwhile, on snds I see that there is a lot of difference between 
the

number of RCPT fields and Message recipientss.

For Exp.


RCPT
commands  111829



DATA
commands 106093



Message
recipients 1215



Thank you





On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Michael Wise 


wrote:



Please open a ticket.



  https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid



Aloha,

Michael.

--

Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis

"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."

Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?



From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Emre 
Üst

|euro.message|
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 2:20 PM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Su

Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Michael Peddemors]

Hehe, IMHO the one's that threaten legal action the loudest..

"Doth he protest too much?"

Usually the ones that are going to take legal action, are the ones that 
do it without threatening to do it..


And once again, a great time to point out.. All legal precedence we know 
of, and especially in the US, always give the advantage to the party 
refusing entrance.. unless it is refused on the basis of color, 
relegion, sex.. yada yada..


Just because someone doesn't want to open the door, doesn't mean that 
you have a right to go in their house. If they don't want to accept you, 
you don't have a legal recourse to force them.. even if their decision 
is/seems arbitrary to you..


I would love to see a letter come back from 'legal' that says..

You can't come in.. "Because we said so"

Have a great weekend everyone, and make sure to take a moment of thanks 
tomorrow, and may all our future arguments be tiny ones, so that those 
kind of sacrifices aren't needed any more..


-- Michael --

PS, In my humble opinion, NEVER use the 'legal' word, or threaten legal 
action, if you want people to communicate/help you.  As soon as that 
happens, most will be obligated 'by legal' to simply cease all 
communication.  Not a great way to get a response.


On 17-11-09 01:33 PM, Charles McKean wrote:

Legal? Was that a threat? Do you have prior experience attacking a
lunatic asylum with a banana? Best of luck.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Emre Üst |euro.message|
 wrote:

Hello Michael ,

Your support team no longer answers the tickets. We still keep getting the
4xx error as server busy.

When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?

Thank you


On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Michael Wise 
wrote:




The AS codes are internal IDs, and are not ASNs.

Each one means something different.

Conflating the different codes is pretty much the same as saying, "My Mail
Was Blocked!"

It's not overly helpful in diagnosing the issue.



Again, open a ticket; it's the only wat to get visibility on general
issues.



   https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid



Aloha,

Michael.

--

Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis

"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."

Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?



From: Maarten Oelering [mailto:maar...@postmastery.net]
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 12:22 AM
To: Benjamin BILLON 
Cc: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" ; mailop@mailop.org;
Michael Wise 
Subject: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some



We are seeing this error on specific sender IPs. So “Server busy” may be
intentionally and dependent on the sender.

There are also many versions of this error, with at least 6 different AS
codes. Some occur after MAIL FROM, some occur after RCPT TO, and some occur
after DATA.



Previously Hotmail said something like “We have limits for how many
messages can be sent per hour and per day”. Very useful, you knew that
reputation was the issue.

Now we just see “Server busy” with an internal code, and we have to guess
what’s wrong. It would be helpful to know more about these AS codes. Or at
least which ones are sender issues and which ones receiver issues. This will
also relieve Microsoft support I guess.



Maarten Oelering

Postmastery



On 3 Nov 2017, at 07:49, Benjamin BILLON via mailop 
wrote:



Sorry to interrupt, I just have a suggestion that maybe Michael could
forward internally: there used to have a Status page for various Microsoft
services, it either moved to some secret place or was removed. There's now a
page for Office365 clients (however being myself client the page generates
an asp error, but that's not the purpose of my message).



Could there be such a page somewhere again? If there are issues, just
being aware of them will already help ESPs and senders to 1) be patient and
2) show to their clients or boss that yes, it happens, ISPs can have outages
or problems too.

I have no idea what format it would take, probably a "working / not
working" flag wouldn't be very useful, unless it's service by service (but I
don't think MS would disclose such level of details).

Knowing if it's geographically limited could be interesting to.



Is it a realistic suggestion, or should I put this dream in the shredder?



Cheers,



--

Benjamin



2017-11-03 14:19 GMT+08:00 Emre Üst |euro.message| :

Hi Michael,

Yes we are still seeing same code .

 2017-11-03 09:17:02 "451 4.7.500 Server busy. Please try again later
from []. (AS3110)" received from hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com
(104.47.5.33) matching /451 4.7.500 Server busy/

We cant send even 1000 mails to Hotmail per day .

Thank you





On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Michael Wise 
wrote:



This may be related to an incident a few days ago.

Are you still seeing the 4xx retry results?



Aloha,

Michael.

--

Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis

"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."

Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool ?



Fro

Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Tobias Herkula]

Hi Emre,

Some thoughts from me, I imagine a lot of people from the sender community are 
lurking on this list, but it seems to me that for most of them the initial 
hiccup of new errors from Microsoft because of the switch from the “old” 
Hotmail infrastructure to the “new” Office365 one got solved.

And then we have this new error code that has a 4.5.x and a 4.7.x in it and we 
also know that Gmails and Yahoos approach to tip somebody, to look at the 
quality of the traffic  is also via sending 4xx errors.

So perhaps the fact that you still getting these errors and the fact that 
Microsoft support does not answer anymore, is based on that quality of your 
traffic?

At least for me, one of the first rules I learned was, always clean your own 
backyard before complaining and never threat someone who can help you.

So even if you are 100% sure, that your traffic is not only legal but also 
appreciated by the recipients with their mailboxes at Microsoft. Would it 
really hurt you to double check again and perhaps be a little more picky then 
last time?


Von: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] Im Auftrag von Emre Üst 
|euro.message|
Gesendet: Thursday, November 9, 2017 21:45
An: Michael Wise 
Cc: Maarten Oelering ; Benjamin BILLON 
; mailop@mailop.org
Betreff: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

Hello Michael ,

Your support team no longer answers the tickets. We still keep getting the 4xx 
error as server busy.

When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?
Thank you


On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Michael Wise 
mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> wrote:

The AS codes are internal IDs, and are not ASNs.
Each one means something different.
Conflating the different codes is pretty much the same as saying, "My Mail Was 
Blocked!"
It's not overly helpful in diagnosing the issue.

Again, open a ticket; it's the only wat to get visibility on general issues.

  https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool ?

From: Maarten Oelering 
[mailto:maar...@postmastery.net]
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 12:22 AM
To: Benjamin BILLON mailto:bbillon...@splio.fr>>
Cc: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" 
mailto:emre@euromsg.com>>; 
mailop@mailop.org; Michael Wise 
mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>>
Subject: Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

We are seeing this error on specific sender IPs. So “Server busy” may be 
intentionally and dependent on the sender.
There are also many versions of this error, with at least 6 different AS codes. 
Some occur after MAIL FROM, some occur after RCPT TO, and some occur after DATA.

Previously Hotmail said something like “We have limits for how many messages 
can be sent per hour and per day”. Very useful, you knew that reputation was 
the issue.
Now we just see “Server busy” with an internal code, and we have to guess 
what’s wrong. It would be helpful to know more about these AS codes. Or at 
least which ones are sender issues and which ones receiver issues. This will 
also relieve Microsoft support I guess.

Maarten Oelering
Postmastery

On 3 Nov 2017, at 07:49, Benjamin BILLON via mailop 
mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, I just have a suggestion that maybe Michael could forward 
internally: there used to have a Status page for various Microsoft services, it 
either moved to some secret place or was removed. There's now a page for 
Office365 clients (however being myself client the page generates an asp error, 
but that's not the purpose of my message).

Could there be such a page somewhere again? If there are issues, just being 
aware of them will already help ESPs and senders to 1) be patient and 2) show 
to their clients or boss that yes, it happens, ISPs can have outages or 
problems too.
I have no idea what format it would take, probably a "working / not working" 
flag wouldn't be very useful, unless it's service by service (but I don't think 
MS would disclose such level of details).
Knowing if it's geographically limited could be interesting to.

Is it a realistic suggestion, or should I put this dream in the shredder?

Cheers,


--


Benjamin

2017-11-03 14:19 GMT+08:00 Emre Üst |euro.message| 
mailto:emre@euromsg.com>>:
Hi Michael,
Yes we are still seeing same code .

2017-11-03 09:17:02 "451 4.7.500 Server busy. Please try again later from 
[]. (AS3110)" received from 
hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com

Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[valdis . kletnieks]

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 13:46:05 -0800, "Luis E. Muñoz via mailop" said:

> On 9 Nov 2017, at 13:33, Charles McKean wrote:
>
> > Legal? Was that a threat? Do you have prior experience attacking a
> > lunatic asylum with a banana? Best of luck.
>
> I suspect^Whope this is a language thing.

Almost positive.

> >> When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?

I think the word Emre was looking for was "legitimate"


pgplACpYW8DQp.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Anne P. Mitchell Esq.]

 
> 
> Hehe, IMHO the one's that threaten legal action the loudest..
> 
> "Doth he protest too much?"
> 
> Usually the ones that are going to take legal action, are the ones that do it 
> without threatening to do it..


Exactly.  Spoken like one with knowledge. ;-)

Fun fact:  The iPhone dictation software recognizes the word 'cartoony'. ;-)

Anne

Anne P. Mitchell, 
Attorney at Law
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant
CEO/President, Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
Legal Counsel: The CyberGreen Institute
Member, Cal. Bar Cyberspace Law Committee
Member, Colorado Cyber Committee
Member, Elevations Credit Union Member Council
Member, Board of Directors, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Ret. Professor of Law, Lincoln Law School of San Jose
Ret. Chair, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop


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Re: [mailop] Gmail forwarding blowback

[Dave Warren]

On 2017-11-08 12:20, Warren Volz wrote:

All,

One of my users has their account setup to forward mail to Gmail. 
Recently I've started to see lots of rejects that look like the following:


 (expanded from ): host
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[2607:f8b0:400e:c04::1a] said: 550-5.7.1
[ipv6 address 18] Our system has detected that
550-5.7.1 this message is likely suspicious due to the very low reputation
of 550-5.7.1 the sending IP address. To best protect our users from spam,
the 550-5.7.1 message has been blocked. Please visit 550 5.7.1
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/188131 for more information.
p26si2014836pli.781 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command)

I've looked over the forwarding best practices provided by google and we 
are not modifying the envelope sender. I'd rather not start throwing 
away what our filter marks as spam since I leave that up to the user, 
but is that the only way to stop the bounces? Also, is the "18]" an 
artifact or some kind of error?


How good are your spam filters? One thing you can try is to only forward 
non-spam and dump the spam in the user's mailbox.


Next, have the user configure Gmail's POP3 account retrieval feature so 
that Google will retrieve the spam and add it to the mailbox. There will 
be some degree of latency for the spam to come through, but nothing gets 
lost.


It mostly doesn't matter if you deliver the non-spam into your local 
mailbox (and forward it) or just forward it as Gmail skips duplicate 
messages.




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Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Matt Vernhout]

> On Nov 9, 2017, at 15:44, Emre Üst |euro.message|  
> wrote:
> 
> When will a legal explanation come from Hotmail (or Microsoft)?

I interpreted this more as a comment on past replies being ‘the templates 
replies from support are required to be sent by our legal department’ that has 
been made several times. 

~
Matt
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Re: [mailop] Hotmail and 4.5.1 4.7.500 Server Busy with some

[Andrew C Aitchison]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017, Michael Wise via mailop wrote:


BTW, somehow this thread has grown sufficently large
that all my responses are now put in the moderation queue.


You seem to have collected several images (attachments?) in the html
of your message - they appear to be white/blank but make your messages 
several hundred K bytes.


If you trim some of the historical messages I suspect that your
messages will get through.

--
Andrew C. Aitchison Cambridge, UK
and...@aitchison.me.uk

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Re: [mailop] Delivery issue at Yahoo

[Stefano Bagnara]

I started seeing the same error from yahoo the past 7th november.
Almost 3% of delivery attempts fails with that error.

I didn't investigate, yet.

Stefano



On 31 October 2017 at 15:59, Vaibhav  wrote:
> Since past few days we are facing delivery issue at Yahoo where most of the
> yahoo active / valid mailbox emails getting bounced with below mention SMTP
> error code.
>
> Does anyone observed the same trend ?
>
> SMTP Error Code :
>
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1190.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1166.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1252.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1513.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1183.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1166.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1177.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1568.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1571.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1252.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1173.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1512.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1513.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1222.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1181.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
> smtp;554 delivery error: dd Requested mail action aborted -
> mta1181.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
>
> --Vaibhav
>
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