Re: Catalina -- What are Caveats and Trade-Offs?

[Mike Arrigo]

Catalina is working fine for me, if your mac is capable of running it, there is 
no reason not to upgrade.

> On Apr 25, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> I’m still ignoring the upgrade notice to get Catalina over my Mojave OSX. Can 
> anyone list known things that changed, possibly detrimental or just plain 
> irritating?
> 
> I may take the plunge since there’s a bit of downtime around here.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Firefox

[Mike Arrigo]

The last time I tried firefox was a few months ago and it was very sluggish to 
the point that it was not a good experience at all. The best browsers on the 
mac are Safari and Chrome.

> On May 6, 2020, at 1:58 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   It should work similar to Safari. You interact with the web content area. 
> The thing is that as far as I have found, Firefox can be very sluggish with 
> VoiceOver with delays up to a few seconds before VO commands are acted upon. 
> They were doing a great job making VO work with FF, but this effort, to me, 
> has seemed to have paused.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 6, 2020, at 2:34 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
>> 
>> How does a VO user get into firefox 76.x’s Advanced menu using 10.15.4 on an 
>> iMac? Thank you.
>> 
>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>> Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words without 
>> a heart.”
>> 
>> 
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Re: Safari busy again on big sur 11.6

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm having the same issue but it really started for me when upgrading to safari 
15, I find myself using Chrome and Firefox more and more now.

> On Sep 26, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> I haven’t updated yet but heard from a number of blind users of this issue. 
> So it seems to be an issue of this update.
> All the best
> Jürgen
> 
> 
>> Am 26.09.2021 um 18:11 schrieb 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Since upgrading to the most recent 11.6 on my macbook pro late 2014, Safari 
>> has become sluggish.  I’ve cleared the cashes, I keep my mac free from junk. 
>>  Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything else I can do?  Or 
>> is it a matter of my mac being old?  It has 16 GB RAM, 512 hard drive and is 
>> the fastest I could buy at that time.
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
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Re: Voiceover reading pages in pdf documents twice

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I experience the same thing. The best way I have found to get around this 
is to open the PDF file in preview, press command+a to select all of the text, 
then press command+c to copy it. Then I paste it in to text edit and read it 
from there.

> On Sep 29, 2021, at 3:54 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone noticed a very odd behaviour of Voiceover when reading pdf 
> documents either in Preview or when Safari opens them on the web?  Voiceover 
> reads each page of a pdf document twice.  This is very annoying and totally 
> unnecessary.  Could you confirm?
> 
> Andrew
> 
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Re: Major problem with Monterey installer if you use vo.

[Mike Arrigo]

I had the same issue with the Big Sur install as well. As you said, there is no 
way around it, I have to keep a mouse around for that purpose. Once you get to 
the install screen you can disconnect it but yes, you will need to connect a 
mouse or track pad to continue.

> On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:38 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Evening Mac users.  I have a Mac mini 2018 and just created a USB installer 
> and was able to boot from it.  However, I have found a major bug that I would 
> consider  a show stopper if uou want to do a clean install.  If you do not 
> have a mouse or trackpad, There is a window that comes up which has a mouse 
> image and a trackpad image that seems to be rotating..  No amount of vo shift 
> space or any other keystroke will make it go away.  Has anyone else ran into 
> thisI  intend to report this to apple accessibility, but wanted to see if 
> anyone else had this problem and found a work around.  I think I have an old 
> track pad around somewhere, but it needs batteries as this is an older one 
> from an older iMac which I no longer have.  
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
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changing sim cards

[Mike Arrigo]

It can be done without sighted help, you will a sim eject tool. The sim card is 
very small so be careful not to drop it. They are about the size of a micro SD 
card.

> On Dec 18, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
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Re: Request for help in deciding between Intel based and and one MacBook Pro

[Mike Arrigo]

I have never used an M1 mac but I know Apple is phasing out the Intel 
processors so if they got an Intel mac they would be buying in to a technology 
that Apple is phasing out.

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:15 PM, muhammad babar Shahzad  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello friends,
> As per the subject line, I request you to kindly let me know whether my 
> friend who is going to transition from Windows to Mac should  acquire an 
> Intel based machine or the M1? They need to use it for university studies. I 
> would highly appreciate if anyone could kindly share their experience of 
> transitioning from Windows to Mac for university studies.
> Thank you very much in advance.
> Regards, Mohammed Babar Shahzad.
> 
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Re: Mouse cursor follows voiceover cursor or ignores voiceover cursor

[Mike Arrigo]

In many cases it doesn't matter but on certain web sites it makes a difference. 
On some web sites, a subcategory of links will only appear when the mouse is 
moved over the main link. For example, you might have a link that says 
"products," and then a sublist of products links would appear, but only if the 
mouse is sitting on the products link. Really this is bad web design for 
accessibility since it makes things difficult for those who don't use a mouse, 
but it does happen. Setting the mouse to follow the voiceover cursor will 
ensure that you see these links.

> On Mar 13, 2022, at 8:47 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The subject explains my dilemma.  Is it better to set mouse cursorr to ignore 
> voiceover cursor or follow it?  What is your experience.  I’d appreciate your 
> comments.
> 
> Andrew
> 
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Re: Firefox updates.

[Mike Arrigo]

The voiceover support in Firefox is coming along nicely. There are still a few 
gaps with how it works but it's definitely useable. And certainly having 
another accessible browser on the mac is a good thing.

> On Dec 18, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> A couple folks have asked me about why use firefox. I was going to grab some 
> information I had received in a different channel about Firefox and VoiceOver 
> support, but have not had a chance. Perhaps over the weekend, that will be 
> possible.
> but in terms of Safari vs Firefox I believe that Firefox more closely follows 
> the updates to  web standards. There are a couple places where the 
> accessibility development community has had to say you can't use this 
> technique if you plan to support VoiceOver on Macintosh. Hopefully, with 
> Firefox we can get more sites that we can access. Also, you might want to 
> reserve your banking activities to a browser different from news and 
> entertainment. Perhaps on  Youtube you have an extension that allows you to 
> downloads movies but you did not pay for the extension, so it is probably 
> getting paid by looking at your browsing habits and sharing that with 
> advertisers. Better to have a Browser free of such stuff for your money.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Big Sur first impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I decided to give Big Sur a try on one of my macs, and honestly, I'm thinking 
about going back to Catalina. Since I became a Mac user back in 2008, I think 
this is the first time that I've considered going back to a previous version of 
Mac OS, but for me at least, there are some major issues.
First, whenever I install a major upgrade of the operating system, I prefer to 
erase my drive and install from scratch. With the recovery for Big Sur 11.1 
this is impossible, Voiceover completely crashes when trying to access the 
table of disks in disk utility. So, I had to boot a Catalina recovery to erase 
my drive. Once that was done I booted from the Big Sur install drive I made and 
the install completed fine.
I think there is a major issue with adding or removing items from the dock. 
Previously you could move to an item and then press the up arrow which would 
give you the menu for that item. In Big Sur, this works the first time although 
when you select the option to remove from dock or keep in dock, that action 
does not take place. After that, bringing up the context menu for a dock item 
is impossible, pressing up arrow, using vo+shift+m or right clicking the mouse 
on the item just returns you to the desktop.
The next issue is with the new messages app, while it's useable, the experience 
is cumbersome at best. Voiceover tends to get stuck and you can't navigate left 
or right, you have to either use the tab key or use Voiceover's go to beginning 
or go to end commands to try to get out of the area that Voiceover is stuck in. 
Also, when writing a message, the read current line command does not work. This 
is the first time I've really been disappointed with an operating system 
upgrade, as I said, more than likely I will be going back to Catalina, I may 
play with it for another couple days but if I can't make these things work 
better than that's what I'm going to do.

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Re: Big Sur first impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I know with the M1 macs, there is a new way of selecting a start up 
disk, you hold the power button for a few seconds. With the Intel macs, 
you would hold the option key but apparently with the M1 macs you can 
do a bit more from the menu that appears if you hold the power button. 
Do you know if this menu is accessible?

Original message:

You certainly said a mouthful about Messages. I've found workarounds,
and the 11.1 update definitely improved things, but not enough to the
point where I'd say it was as usable as it was on Catalina. The way
message conversations are selected for posting new messages or even
deleting the conversation requires more VoiceOver gestures/steps, too,
not to exclude what you wrote which is also absolutely correct.




I haven't tried the Dock stuff yet, but I'm sure it's exactly as you
reported.




One wonders, what were the accessibility testers thinking when it was
pointed out to them during the beta cycle that these things were
different enough such that retraining would be required? I totally had
to retrain myself with Messages, for sure. Unfortunately, I can't go
back to Catalina because I have the M1 Mac, and I took on the challenge
of being an early adopter, so I await improvements which will surely
come. There are a lot of core applications--core for my use anyway--that
are not yet M1-ready, and I agreed to wait for these, but I do like my
M1 Mini for all the core Apple stuff, except Messages,of course, and
probably a few more as I continue to explore Big Sur.




On 12/20/2020 7:25 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
I decided to give Big Sur a try on one of my macs, and honestly, I'm 
thinking about going back to Catalina. Since I became a Mac user back 
in 2008, I think this is the first time that I've considered going back 
to a previous version of Mac OS, but for me at least, there are some 
major issues.
First, whenever I install a major upgrade of the operating system, I 
prefer to erase my drive and install from scratch. With the recovery 
for Big Sur 11.1 this is impossible, Voiceover completely crashes when 
trying to access the table of disks in disk utility. So, I had to boot 
a Catalina recovery to erase my drive. Once that was done I booted from 
the Big Sur install drive I made and the install completed fine.
I think there is a major issue with adding or removing items from the 
dock. Previously you could move to an item and then press the up arrow 
which would give you the menu for that item. In Big Sur, this works the 
first time although when you select the option to remove from dock or 
keep in dock, that action does not take place. After that, bringing up 
the context menu for a dock item is impossible, pressing up arrow, 
using vo+shift+m or right clicking the mouse on the item just returns 
you to the desktop.
The next issue is with the new messages app, while it's useable, the 
experience is cumbersome at best. Voiceover tends to get stuck and you 
can't navigate left or right, you have to either use the tab key or use 
Voiceover's go to beginning or go to end commands to try to get out of 
the area that Voiceover is stuck in. Also, when writing a message, the 
read current line command does not work. This is the first time I've 
really been disappointed with an operating system upgrade, as I said, 
more than likely I will be going back to Catalina, I may play with it 
for another couple days but if I can't make these things work better 
than that's what I'm going to do.




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Re: Dock issue in Big Sur

[Mike Arrigo]

I have actually tried this, interesting that it does work on the M1 macs, I'm 
using an Intel based mac mini, I think this generation was introduced in 2014 
and they were sold until 2018. I'll try the voiceover menu, I set up numpad 
star to do a right click of the mouse and that does not work. Sounds like it 
mainly happens when using the dock with the keyboard.

> On Dec 21, 2020, at 12:08 PM, 'Larry Honaker' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> As several folks have reported, I have experienced the bug in Big Sur in 
> regards to invoking the menu on items in the dock. I am using a new M1 
> MacBookAir.
> 
> I have spent some time with Apple Support and they have provided a sort of 
> workaround for this issue. It certainly is  not as convenient as the original 
> VO+Shift+m; however, it works “most” of the time—and I emphasize , “most” as 
> the workaround does not always open the menu for me.
> 
> Anyway, here is the workaround and it is better than nothing until they get 
> the bug fixed.
> 
> 1. Go to the dock with VO+d
> 2. Navigate to the item you wish to work with
> 3. Press the key combination of VO+function+Command+5 
>  (VO says the name of the app you are focused on in the dock)
> 4. Press VO+h+H
> 5. Type r I (no space between the r and i)
> 6. VO will say right mouse click; press return
> This usually opens up the menu where you can access options and other choices 
> usually displayed thru the VO+Shift+m menu.
> 
> Again, not perfect but it has worked fairly reliably for me so far.
> 
> Hope this helps anyone else dealing with this issue.
> 
> Larry W. Honaker
> 
> kc8...@icloud.com
> 
> Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. 
> (Psalm 119:105 KJV)
> 
> 
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Re: Big Sur first impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I wonder if you can use the arrow keys to navigate around in that screen. With 
the boot manager on Intel macs, you could use the left and right arrows to 
select a start up disk and then press enter.

> On Dec 21, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> No way can it be accessible because there's no operating system at that 
> point. The reason for this is probably because all the M1 stuff pre-supposes 
> you're using a Bluetooth keyboard. How the Bluetooth subsystem is working at 
> that stage of the boot process I haven't the first clue. Maybe there are no 
> additional key-presses involved once you hold that power button for those 
> five seconds. I suppose I could be brave and give it a try.
> 
> 
> On 12/21/2020 10:44 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> I know with the M1 macs, there is a new way of selecting a start up disk, 
>> you hold the power button for a few seconds. With the Intel macs, you would 
>> hold the option key but apparently with the M1 macs you can do a bit more 
>> from the menu that appears if you hold the power button. Do you know if this 
>> menu is accessible?
>> Original message:
>>> You certainly said a mouthful about Messages. I've found workarounds,
>>> and the 11.1 update definitely improved things, but not enough to the
>>> point where I'd say it was as usable as it was on Catalina. The way
>>> message conversations are selected for posting new messages or even
>>> deleting the conversation requires more VoiceOver gestures/steps, too,
>>> not to exclude what you wrote which is also absolutely correct.
>> 
>> 
>>> I haven't tried the Dock stuff yet, but I'm sure it's exactly as you
>>> reported.
>> 
>> 
>>> One wonders, what were the accessibility testers thinking when it was
>>> pointed out to them during the beta cycle that these things were
>>> different enough such that retraining would be required? I totally had
>>> to retrain myself with Messages, for sure. Unfortunately, I can't go
>>> back to Catalina because I have the M1 Mac, and I took on the challenge
>>> of being an early adopter, so I await improvements which will surely
>>> come. There are a lot of core applications--core for my use anyway--that
>>> are not yet M1-ready, and I agreed to wait for these, but I do like my
>>> M1 Mini for all the core Apple stuff, except Messages,of course, and
>>> probably a few more as I continue to explore Big Sur.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/20/2020 7:25 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>>> I decided to give Big Sur a try on one of my macs, and honestly, I'm 
>>>> thinking about going back to Catalina. Since I became a Mac user back in 
>>>> 2008, I think this is the first time that I've considered going back to a 
>>>> previous version of Mac OS, but for me at least, there are some major 
>>>> issues.
>>>> First, whenever I install a major upgrade of the operating system, I 
>>>> prefer to erase my drive and install from scratch. With the recovery for 
>>>> Big Sur 11.1 this is impossible, Voiceover completely crashes when trying 
>>>> to access the table of disks in disk utility. So, I had to boot a Catalina 
>>>> recovery to erase my drive. Once that was done I booted from the Big Sur 
>>>> install drive I made and the install completed fine.
>>>> I think there is a major issue with adding or removing items from the 
>>>> dock. Previously you could move to an item and then press the up arrow 
>>>> which would give you the menu for that item. In Big Sur, this works the 
>>>> first time although when you select the option to remove from dock or keep 
>>>> in dock, that action does not take place. After that, bringing up the 
>>>> context menu for a dock item is impossible, pressing up arrow, using 
>>>> vo+shift+m or right clicking the mouse on the item just returns you to the 
>>>> desktop.
>>>> The next issue is with the new messages app, while it's useable, the 
>>>> experience is cumbersome at best. Voiceover tends to get stuck and you 
>>>> can't navigate left or right, you have to either use the tab key or use 
>>>> Voiceover's go to beginning or go to end commands to try to get out of the 
>>>> area that Voiceover is stuck in. Also, when writing a message, the read 
>>>> current line command does not work. This is the first time I've really 
>>>> been disappointed with an operating system upgrade, as I said, more than 
>>>&g

an update on my Big Sur experience

[Mike Arrigo]

So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I 
usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the 
messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to 
select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when 
opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover 
up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow 
keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.


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Re: an update on my Big Sur experience

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, opening an app from the dock works fine, the issue is opening the 
context menu for a dock item in order to add or remove it from the 
dock, that currently does not work.

Original message:
Things may work differently on the Intel Macs as opposed to the new M1 
Macs, but Mike I am still able to open an app from the dock with 
VO+spacebar. I am unable to access the menu from the dock to get to the 
open command.



The VO command does open the app, however.


I agree that there are some serious bug issues, but I do believe we 
have to try and move forward and just keep pressure on Apple to fix the 
problems.



Larry W. Honaker



kc8...@icloud.com



Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
(Psalm 119:105 KJV)




On Dec 23, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


So, after playing with the new operating system a bit more, I'm going 
to stick with it rather than going back to Catalina although I still 
think that Apple has taken several steps backward with this new OS. I 
figure there's no point going back to an old operating system even if 
it's a bit easier for some things.
I do hope Apple fixes the bug with using the dock, but I have an 
acceptable work around for that. I prefer not to open the applications 
folder every time I want to open an app which is what I used the dock 
for. Since this is currently not possible, I have made aliases for the 
applications I use the most and put them on my desktop.
Regarding the messages application, I think I have found what I would 
consider to be a major voiceover bug and it's one reason I was having 
so much trouble with the app. Voiceover has a setting that determines 
how groups are handled, I usually use the bookend groups option since 
this eliminates the need to interact with items as much. This setting 
does not currently work with the messages app. Basically the new 
messages app has two sections, the conversations list and to the right 
of that is the area where the selected conversation is displayed. If 
you use one of the other voiceover group settings besides standard, 
once you move in to one of these areas, voiceover will get stuck there 
and you cannot get out of this section and go to the other one. Since I 
usually use the bookend groups setting, I created an activity for the 
messages app that switches to the standard setting instead. Unlike the 
messages app in Catalina, you can no longer use just the arrow keys to 
select a conversation, you must interact with the conversations list 
and use voiceover to select the conversation you want. Also, when 
opening the context menu for a conversation, you must use the voiceover 
up and down commands to move through the menu, using the regular arrow 
keys will not work.
I've also found an odd issue with the notification center, in previous 
operating systems, when an application requested to use the 
notification center, the prompt would appear and there were buttons to 
allow or deny the request. With Big Sur, either those buttons do not 
appear or Voiceover does not see them. You have to press 
VO+command+space to open the actions menu to respond to the notification.
I really hope Apple fixes some of these issues, I would consider some 
of them to be major.



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Re: Big Sur 11.1 vs Catalina 10.15.7?

[Mike Arrigo]

Safari works fine, I don't use terminal or the other applications you 
mentioned. The messages app is quite a bit different, it's usable but takes 
some getting used to. At this point, adding and removing items from the dock is 
not possible using the keyboard, I think Apple has confirmed that this is a 
known issue. It's really up to you, there's certainly nothing wrong with 
waiting for a while for Apple to make things better.

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 5:55 AM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Based on your experiences, I want to know whether it is a good time to 
> upgrade to Big Sur or not. I want to know about issues in general interaction 
> with the OS and specifically Safari, Terminal, Keynote, Pages and Numbers.
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
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Re: Nasty bug with voice-over and disk utility in recovery finally solved in latest beta update

[Mike Arrigo]

Glad that is fixed, when I installed big sur on my macs, I had to boot from a 
catalina recovery to erase my hard drive first, I'm surprised a bug that major 
made it in to production.

> On Jan 21, 2021, at 6:14 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> hey all,
> Very happy to report that in the latest beta of big Sur the very nasty bug 
> which would make voice-over crash whilst in the disk utility in recovery has 
> been resolved.
> I can't tell you what a relief this is.
> 
> Michael
> 
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Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

[Mike Arrigo]

I wonder if this person even tried a mac. Yes, there was an issue with disk 
utility in the big sur recovery and I agree that this should have never been 
released, but it is fixed now. I'm wondering what tasks the author of this 
article wants to perform but is unable to do. There is still an issue with 
adding and removing items from the dock using the keyboard but that's not 
voiceover related directly.

> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:48 AM, kliph miller Sr  wrote:
> 
>>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>> 1. This is a windows user
>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>> 
>>> Introduction
>>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with 
>>> modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers 
>>> have been very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to 
>>> obtain depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet 
>>> capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we 
>>> will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual 
>>> Desktop Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in 
>>> their own right, but they have their strengths and weaknesses which I will 
>>> discuss in more detail. Hopefully by the end of this article, you will have 
>>> a better understanding of each product and its individual 
>>> strengths/weaknesses.
>>> 
>>> NVDA
>>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
>>> reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind 
>>> the project is an Australian company called NV Access (www.nvaccess.org). 
>>> It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for 
>>> Windows screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they are 
>>> now known by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and 
>>> should be suitable for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind 
>>> NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the 
>>> world, meaning there is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to 
>>> work, learn, or do anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on 
>>> donations, either from individuals or grants from large companies, so if 
>>> you can donate, it is very much worth it to help this amazing project 
>>> continue long into the future. The obvious benefit is that a blind person 
>>> can compete on a level playing field with sighted peers at no more cost 
>>> than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 3-4 
>>> updates per year that fix bugs and add new features.
>>> 
>>> Since NVDA is open source, anyone is free to review the source code and 
>>> propose changes. While anyone can propose a change and submit code, it’s 
>>> still reviewed and approved by NV Access before it is included in anything 
>>> anyone can download. This ensures the security of the software from 
>>> unauthorised changes and means that the final product available from 
>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/ is just as secure and well vetted as the closed 
>>> source from another company. Thousands of people from all over the world 
>>> constantly contribute to the project which benefits everyone in the end. 
>>> NVDA is a screen reader made for the blind by the blind. NV Access is 
>>> overseen by a board of directors (of whom at least 33% must be blind or 
>>> vision impaired, according to their constitution.
>>> 
>>> VoiceOver
>>> VoiceOver is Apple’s built-in and the only screen reader for the Mac. It 
>>> has been around since 2005, although the last significant update was in 
>>> 2011 with Mac OS X Lion. VoiceOver works well with Apple’s built-in apps 
>>> and used to be very reliable. Since it is built into the system, anyone can 
>>> walk up to a Mac running a modern version of macOS and get it talking by 
>>> pressing Command+F5. Apple should be commended for building a very capable 
>>> screen reader into the system and showing the rest of the world that it is 
>>> possible to build very robust accessibility features into mainstream 
>>> products.
>>> 
>>> As previously mentioned, however, VoiceOver is not as reliable as it could 
>>> or should be. Apple has not made significant changes in nearly a decade, 
>>> and bugs are rarely if ever fixed. Issues have piled up over the years and 
>>> the experience, while still good, is far from satisfactory depending on the 
>>> tasks you wish to do. The latest trend appears to be introducing bugs that 
>>> make certain things unusable. For example, there is a bug in macOS Big Sur 
>>> where VoiceOver crashes when opening the Disk Utility application in macOS 
>>> Recovery mode. This is absolutely unacceptable and would be fixed promptly 
>>> if it was impacting sighted users, yet someone somewhere decided it was 
>>> okay to release w

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

[Mike Arrigo]

The shortcut menu does not work, whether you press the up arrow to open the 
menu which used to work, or you do vo+shift+m on a dock item, or even right 
click the mouse on an item, it doesn't work, at least not on any of my macs.

> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:51 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Which can be done via the Action Menu with ease.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:50 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> Adding items to the Dock never has been a problem in Big Sur.  The problem 
>> is accessing and working with the shortcut menu for Dock items in Big Sur.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 18:36, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I wonder if this person even tried a mac. Yes, there was an issue with disk 
>> utility in the big sur recovery and I agree that this should have never been 
>> released, but it is fixed now. I'm wondering what tasks the author of this 
>> article wants to perform but is unable to do. There is still an issue with 
>> adding and removing items from the dock using the keyboard but that's not 
>> voiceover related directly.
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:48 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>>>> 1. This is a windows user
>>>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>>>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>>>> 
>>>>> Introduction
>>>>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>>>>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with 
>>>>> modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen 
>>>>> readers have been very expensive third-party programs that were very 
>>>>> difficult to obtain depending on one’s financial status. However, several 
>>>>> free yet capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The 
>>>>> two that we will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the 
>>>>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are powerful screen 
>>>>> readers in their own right, but they have their strengths and weaknesses 
>>>>> which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully by the end of this 
>>>>> article, you will have a better understanding of each product and its 
>>>>> individual strengths/weaknesses.
>>>>> 
>>>>> NVDA
>>>>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source 
>>>>> screen reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The 
>>>>> organization behind the project is an Australian company called NV Access 
>>>>> (www.nvaccess.org). It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes 
>>>>> with the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or 
>>>>> Vispero as they are now known by. It offers many of the same features 
>>>>> that JAWS offers and should be suitable for 99% of screen reader users. 
>>>>> The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free of 
>>>>> charge to anyone in the world, meaning there is no longer a financial 
>>>>> barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do anything else on a 
>>>>> computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from individuals or 
>>>>> grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is very much worth 
>>>>> it to help this amazing project continue long into the future. The 
>>>>> obvious benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing 
>>>>> field with sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to 
>>>>> NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix 
>>>>> bugs and add new features.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since NVDA is open source, anyone is free to review the source code and 
>>>>> propose changes. While anyone can propose a change and submit code, it’s 
>>>>> still reviewed and approved by NV Access before it is included in 
>>>>> anything anyone can download. This ensures the security of the software 
>>>

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

[Mike Arrigo]

No matter what I do, I cannot open the context menu for any item on the dock. 
It just goes back to the finder, unless voiceover is reporting it wrong, I 
guess I could try control clicking with the trackpad on my laptop but for the 
mac minis, nothing works.

> On Mar 2, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> I may not be understanding this issue but I’ve just opened a context menu on 
> a dock item (using control click) and then used enter to access an option.
> 
> Enter seems to consistently work once a context menu is open. Are others not 
> seeing this?
> 
> My apologies if I have misunderstood or have missed the point.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 2, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> From my experience, I have had no problem opening the shortcut menu for a 
>> Dock item using VO + Shift +M..  The real problem is accessing a selection 
>> from a shortcut menu.
>> In the beginning of this issue, routing the mouse pointer to the desired 
>> menu item, and then performing a mouse click on the trackpad worked in most 
>> situations.  However, since the 11.2 update, this work-around no longer 
>> performs as it once did in the prior 11.1 update.  There has been no change 
>> with the 11.2.2 update as well.
>> This situation is both disappointing and unacceptable.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 2, 2021, at 02:36, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
>> 
>> I only found one real solution to this issue: 
>> Navigate to an element in the Dock.
>> Switch off Trackpad Commander.
>> Route mouse pointer to VO by pressing VO + CMD + F5. Pressing FN 
>> additionally probably would be necessary in most cases.
>> Hold down CTRL and press down Trackpad with one finger. Means perform a real 
>> right click.
>> If I do so the known context menu opens  reliably on my Mac. All other 
>> suggestions didn’t work more than ones.
>> All the best
>> Jürgen
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 02.03.2021 um 06:39 schrieb Brad Snyder :
>>> 
>>> I don’t find that using the Actions Menu helps get around any of the Big 
>>> Sur Dock access issues.
>>> Maybe I’m missing something here.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 18:51, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>>Which can be done via the Action Menu with ease.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take Care
>>> 
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>> 
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>> 
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> 
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:50 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Adding items to the Dock never has been a problem in Big Sur.  The problem 
>>>> is accessing and working with the shortcut menu for Dock items in Big Sur.
>>>> 
>>>> - Brad -
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 18:36, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if this person even tried a mac. Yes, there was an issue with 
>>>> disk utility in the big sur recovery and I agree that this should have 
>>>> never been released, but it is fixed now. I'm wondering what tasks the 
>>>> author of this article wants to perform but is unable to do. There is 
>>>> still an issue with adding and removing items from the dock using the 
>>>> keyboard but that's not voiceover related directly.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:48 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>>>>>> 1. This is a windows user
>>>>>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>>>>>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Introduction
>>>>>>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>>>>>>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses 
>>>>>>> with modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen 
>>>>>>> readers have been very expensive third-party programs that were very 
>>>>>>> difficult to obtain depending on one’s finan

Re: Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod Mini, USA Today

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm not sure how much the Home Pod mini sells for, I've heard the larger home 
pod sounds really good, but it was more expensive than the echo or google home 
series, and it sounds like you are confirming what the reviews have said, the 
capabilities are lacking compared to the Echo and google home devices.

> On Mar 14, 2021, at 9:05 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I couldn’t agree more, Donna. I was really disappointed. The problem with the 
> homePod isn’t the speaker, it’s Apple and that god awful Siri. They really 
> have not done what they should be doing with that. And there’s no way I’m 
> interested in any HomePod mini. Why? I bought a pair of HomePods for the 
> sound, and it’s very good. For 400 bucks, it sounds almost as good as 
> speakers I paid more for in the past. But now it’s discontinued, so I guess 
> maybe it won’t get more updates? What a rip! Apple, you really screwed it up!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2021, at 5:55 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, that’s too bad. The sound on the HomePod is much better than the mini.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 14, 2021, at 7:52 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Well, I knew this day would come.  I did not think it would happen so soon
>>> but .
>>> 
>>> Since purchasing my original HomePod, all I have asked Apple to do was to
>>> add a device-specific equalizer so as to allow listeners to customize the
>>> sounds balance.  This feature has long since been available on the Amazon
>>> Echo devices.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod Mini, USA
>>> Today
>>> 
>>> Apple to discontinue original HomePod and says it will focus efforts on
>>> HomePod mini
>>> 
>>> Apple will discontinue its original HomePod four years after first releasing
>>> the smart speaker.
>>> 
>>> The Cupertino, California-based tech giant says it will instead focus on its
>>> new and smaller HomePod mini, which went on sale in November for $99.
>>> "We are discontinuing the original HomePod, it will continue to be available
>>> while supplies last through the Apple Online Store, Apple Retail Stores and
>>> Apple Authorized Resellers," Apple said in a statement, reported by
>>> TechCrunch. "We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini."
>>> 
>>> Apple didn't immediately respond Saturday to USA TODAY's request for
>>> comment. As of Saturday, the HomePod was selling for $299 on Apple's website
>>> with the mini available for $99.
>>> 
>>> Apple first entered the smart speaker market in 2018 with the original
>>> HomePod, first priced at $349, but dogged by complaints that the speaker did
>>> little more than just play music. It was dwarfed by sales of Amazon's Echo,
>>> the No. 1 best-selling smart speaker, and what was originally called the
>>> Google Home.
>>> 
>>> The new HomePod mini can access apps on the iPhone using Siri, such as
>>> calendar, messages, or Music. The speaker also features an intercom and the
>>> ability to send messages from HomePod Mini to any Apple device, even
>>> AirPods.
>>> 
>>> The smart speaker incorporates computational audio, which applies tuning
>>> models to bolster its sound. When announcing the new speaker in November,
>>> Apple said it would add a feature recognizing when your iPhone is near so
>>> music can easily transfer from playing on iPhone to HomePod mini and trigger
>>> visual and haptic responses on the phone.
>>> 
>>> In January, Apple posted record revenue of $111.4 billion during its 2021
>>> fiscal first quarter, a 21% increase from the same period a year ago.
>>> 
>>> The company reported selling more iPhones and iPads, and hit a new revenue
>>> high from its services, such as Apple TV+, from October through December
>>> 2020, as consumers got new devices and used them more during the coronavirus
>>> pandemic. 
>>> 
>>> Contributing: Mike Snider, Brett Molina and Jefferson Graham, USA TODAY
>>> 
>>> Original Article at:
>>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2021/03/13/homepod-discontinued-app
>>> le-focusing-efforts-homepod-mini/468041/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> ema

Re: Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod Mini, USA Today

[Mike Arrigo]

That's one major disadvantage of the home pods, if you want to play anything 
other than something on Apple music, you have to use your phone to stream the 
content and at that point, the home pod is basically functioning as an external 
speaker for your phone. The Amazon echo devices and Google Home devices support 
several radio streaming services directly. Unless Apple makes more services 
available directly on the Home Pod, it will never compete with the Echo or 
Google home devices.

> On Mar 16, 2021, at 6:23 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am referring to being able to tell the HomePod to play it directly without 
> having to use your phone.  For example, on my android phone and probably.e on 
> my iPhone 8+ though I have not tested this I should be able to tell Sirri to 
> play a station on Sirius-xm.  I can tell my Samsung device to do this and 
> google speakers can do this after you set it up.  You can not do this on 
> apple speakers,  HTH.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2021, at 9:42 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Its been publicly announced that serious XM will be allowed to be your 
>> default music service in IOS14.5
>> 
>> Are you good at editing audio or want to learn how? Want to explore all the 
>> options on how to make your recordings for podcasts or other files sound 
>> good? Then audio editing101 is the group for you, join here
>> audio-editing101+subscr...@groups.io
>> Let’s master editing audio together!
>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2021, at 5:28 PM, matthew dyer 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, 
>>> 
>>> My only complante with apple is þ they don't have access to Sirius XM as 
>>> least not through the speaker.  I have considered a google home for that or 
>>> an amazon speaker.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2021 11:38 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Apple HomePod Discontinued: Apple to Focus on Smaller, HomePod 
>>> Mini, USA Today
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the link you sent in another message, I will be responding. My 
>>> problem is that a lot of the stations I want our foreign language. And the 
>>> Amazon devices and the Google devices will play them. Siri won’t. Why not? 
>>> And even HomePod aside, Siri just sends me to the web far too often. Even 
>>> on the watch. That’s ridiculous. Apple bought the leading AI of its time 
>>> and totally lost it. I don’t want apple digging into my privacy matters. So 
>>> I totally agree with you there. But I don’t think you have to know all 
>>> about me in order to play a given radio station in a foreign country that 
>>> exists on a service with which Apple supposedly has connections. It’s just 
>>> screwed up. This is one area where Apple totally lost it. And it’s so sad. 
>>> The homePod‘s are really nice speakers in my opinion.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 14, 2021, at 8:11 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Well, far be it from me to defend Siri, but she's gotten a lot better, at 
 least with regard to playing radio stations. I can now get her to play 
 every station I want to hear, either from public radio, Tune-In, or 
 iHeart.  You might give that another try.
 
 I don't get why some music just won't play, and that's still an issue. I 
 mean, it would make sense if they had foreign language titles, but some of 
 the albums that give the most trouble don't. I've just solved that by 
 creating  playlist with the album, and giving it a different name. But 
 you're right, that shouldn't be necessary.
 
 All this said, I don't see how focusing on the Mini is going to fix those 
 issues. The albums that won't play on my HomePod, also won't play on the 
 mini.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 
> On Mar 14, 2021, at 10:03 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> I agree with you with regard to privacy issues. But I honestly don’t 
> think Apple has done what they could or should have done with Siri and 
> never mind privacy issues. That is, privacy issues shouldn’t matter in 
> these cases. Why, for instance, can’t you get radio stations around the 
> world to play reliably? Why doesn’t music always play reliably? Why can’t 
> you switch among music providers? Apple made a really nice speaker, 
> better than Google certainly, and I don’t have the Amazon studio, so I 
> can’t compare. I mean really. HomePod aside, Siri still get an awful lot 
> of stuff wrong, and still sends you to the web Waymore than it should. 
> Didn’t Apple say that was one of their big focuses for this year? Well, 
> they blew it. So now, I have my nice HomePods which may or may not ever 
> see any more upgrades. The performance is not reliable. It’s not the 
> speaker. It’s the infrastructure. Apple screwed up.
> 
> 
>

Re: Instructions for Running Windows on M1 Machines

[Mike Arrigo]

Wonder if screen readers will work with this version of Windows.

> On May 7, 2021, at 9:11 AM,   
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> This article has step by step instructions for downloading Windows onto the 
> new M1 Macs.
> It requires an Arm based version of Windows, Parallels, and a Windows Insider 
> registration.
> https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/03/the-super-easy-guide-for-installing-windows-on-m1-macs-using-parallels-desktop-16-for-mac-video/
> I’ve decided that it is probably best for me not to put two operating systems 
> on the same machine.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: the Brave Browser

[Mike Arrigo]

All three of these browsers use the same browser engine, so the way things are 
read will be the same for all of them. While you could install all three of 
them, it's kind of redundant. I just have Chrome installed on my macs. The 
accessibility of firefox has really come along nicely as well.

> On Jul 5, 2021, at 5:39 AM, Greg Wocher  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> From the little bit of testing I have done with it, it is accessible on the 
> Mac. It works similarly to that of the edge and chrome browsers.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2021, at 10:58 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
>> 
>> I read in top Tech Tidbits that the Brave Browser was coming out. it's 
>> supposed to be based on chrome but filter out ads. I might assume that since 
>> it was announced in that publication it would be accessible but it's 
>> probably better not to assume. has anybody tried it on their Mac and if so, 
>> how does it work?
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
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> list.
> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on Catalina

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm surprised Microsoft developed Edge for the Mac. It uses the Chrome engine I 
think so it's probably similar to just using Chrome.

> On Jun 23, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I am running the latest Catalina on my iMac and have been trying the 
> Microsoft Edge web browser. It looks good so far. It is fast and I have not 
> seen much busy.
> IS there any way to transfer my bookmarks from Safari to Edge? Not being able 
> to do this will inhibit my use of Edge! 
> Best … Paul Hopewell
> 
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Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 

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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

It's a separate download, if you do a google search for microsoft edge it 
should be the first result.

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> Is MS Edge part of the Office 365 suite, or a separate download?
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. 
> You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover 
> reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
> differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or 
> if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
> another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 
> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

If you like the compact version, you can download a better quality version of 
the voice if you wish.

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am not a native inglish speaker but really like aron compact for reading 
> things on the internet.
> That’s if i am lazy and don’t wanna poke with my braille display.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev Leo Bado :
>> 
>> I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. For me 
>> everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and 
>> pronunciation. Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very 
>> important for me since I'm not a native English speaker, but I understand 
>> that they might not make much of a difference for a native English speaker. 
>> Well, what can I say? for the most part, this is a subjective matter 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>>Leo
>> 
>> On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when 
>>> using Edge on a Mac??
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado 
>>> 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however, 
>>> I was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but 
>>> sadly, they don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I 
>>> usually read articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are working 
>>> on the latest release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>>Leo
>>> On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very 
>>>> well. You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since 
>>>> voiceover reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but 
>>>> there are some differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make 
>>>> Edge accessible or if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, 
>>>> either way, we now have another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a 
>>>> good thing. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
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Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Mike Arrigo]

Nice, please try some more sites when you can and keep us posted, it would be 
awesome if firefox became as accessible on the mac as it is on Windows.

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I just downloaded Firefox 77 and Firefox 79 nightly on my system, and they 
> have indeed made significant strides in interacting with VoiceOver. I only 
> had a chance to review two or three sites. Sometimes, voiceOver would say 
> unknown button, but if I moved forward and back it could then read the label 
> for the button. I did not look at any advanced sites that use lots of 
> JavaScript and have to manage focus, but first impressions were that this is 
> something worth looking into. 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Firefox on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I went ahead and gave the newest firefox, version 77 a try. Yes, it is 
definitely better than previous versions, voiceover is quite responsive with 
it. Is it ready to be used as someone's primary browser, not yet, there are 
still some issues with the voiceover cursor getting stuck and you have to use 
the tab key to get out of the section you are stuck in. Is it worth trying and 
perhaps offering some feedback to Mozilla? Yes, absolutely, let's hope this 
continues to improve. If you have used safari and Chrome, you will notice that 
there are slight differences in how each browser presents information to 
voiceover, for example, chrome points out the start and end of lists in some 
places that safari doesn't. Microsoft Edge presents things exactly the same way 
that Chrome does since they use the same code. Firefox has its own unique way 
of presenting things, again, I would suggest giving it a try and offering some 
feedback, it would be awesome if Firefox's voiceover support could become as 
good as Safari, Chrome and Edge.

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article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover support in 
Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a great start.
https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

It's usable, but not as good as on Windows yet, but it's getting there. 
In the new Firefox 78 I was able to log in to my youtube account and 
play some videos, I also tried it with some other web sites, I would 
encourage everyone to give it a try and see what you think.

Original message:

Just Wonderin:
How does The Accessibility  compare to  its PC
i.e., Windows CounterPart & I'm Talkin'About  the
InternetBrowser, FireFox on The MAC?



Let's get This Thread Back-on-Track



Blessin'sAgain!
At 09:37 AM 6/30/2020, you wrote:

Nonsense like this has no place on this list! Stop it!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 On Behalf Of alia robinson
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 10:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac



and things like this is why crap like that
signature shouldn’t be allowed. it brings out
the crazy conspiracy theroists. LMAO turn off alex jones.



On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:02 AM, CHUCK REICHEL
 wrote:



Amen Ray!



The whole thing including the "Communist Chinese
Biological weapon attack" is just the "Deep
State attempting another election year scam!
Guys look up   George Soros and how
he's  funding antifa & MS 13 to continually
foment the Violence which has nothing to do with Black lives!
May be you guys are not aware  of the fact 90%
of the news you're being fed is controlled by "6 corporations"
Thats called a monopoly!
Just another way to try and overthrow my USA Government.
It aint gonna happen guys!
Just watch!



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Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Mike Arrigo]

At this time voiceover just says there are no menu options available 
for each category, I think that support will be coming later this year.

Original message:
SO DOES THE ROTOR BRING UP NOTHING IN ANY CATEGORY, OR NOTHING AT all 
or is every list in it blank? Also, is this the production or beta?



Best wishes,



Jonathan Cohn






On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Angus MacKinnon > wrote:


I have found Firefox to work better with VoiceOver (VO). However, VO + 
I brings up a small list of Items (about 37 items). VO + U has nothing 
but a blank window.



Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words 
without a heart.”




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Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Absolutely, here is the article, I think it's really exciting.

https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/



> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:00 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Ok. To get this back on track, could someone please repost the original 
> article on Firefox. This is of great interest to me. I have been messing with 
> FF on the Mac for a long time and accessibility is finally improving again 
> with VoiceOver. It’s actually to the point of being quite usable.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:56 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Cara Quinn, owner and Mark Taylor. moderator, their contact information is 
>> in the footer. And I doubt very much they support hatred.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>> 
>> On 7/2/2020 9:41 AM, Robin wrote:
>>> "Who" are The Moderators of This MailingList?
>>> &
>>> Wonder if "They" support The Views  of TheMembers/Subscribers, which would 
>>> be The Reason, "Why" they are Allowing This Thread to Continue
>>> EvenThough
>>> it's OFF Topic/Subject
>>> I've tried to Steer this Thread Back ON Topic/Subject to No Avail
>>> At 04:05 AM 7/2/2020, you wrote:
 No that’s why I’m sorry Julie,
 
 I and a few others have tried and people are not stopping.
 I believe it is time
  To block the sender and trash their emails,
 
 Which I hate to say could cause me to miss emails of interest from other 
 members.it’s just so interesting to hear how these perfect people react, 
 must be difficult living in their close minded worlds.
 
 Simon F
 *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
 *On Behalf Of *Julie Rattray
 *Sent:* Thursday, 2 July 2020 11:00 PM
 *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
 
 It was not you that made people leave it is rather the lack of a moderator 
 stopping this I think that is the issue
 
 
   On 2 Jul 2020, at 11:57, Simon A Fogarty >>>   > wrote:
 
   Brad, please pass on my apologies to this person for them leaving,
 
   That wasn’t my intention to make it happen.
   Regards,
 
 
   Simon F
 
 
   From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   
   >>>   > On Behalf Of Brad Snyder
   Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2020 6:09 PM
   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   
   Subject: Re: Endding the RE: article on Firefox accessibility on
   the mac
 
   I completely agree.  I can’t believe the moderator has been
   silent and allowed this crap to go on.
   Unlike a Groups.io  email list, I am not aware
   of a way to mute a topic.
   It appears that the only way to deal with this is to unsubscribe
   from the list.
 
   - Brad -
 
   On Jul 2, 2020, at 00:53, alia robinson >>>   > wrote:
 
   and my point is made. we just lost a good member of the list as
   opposed to this piece of trash who is spouting this shit and
   staying. I too am gone. I can get mac support anywhere. I am
   ashamed of what I’ve seen here, and to those who were supportive
   you rock. to people like ray, phil and chuck I am just hopeful of
   a future world where these attitudes and the people spouting them
   are gone.
 
 
   On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:47 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
   >>>   > wrote:
 
   Hi,
 
   Publicly, I cannot support nor listen to this sort of insensitive
   bigotry.  I’ve got much better things to do with my time and
   would prefer to surround myself with tolerant, respectful people. 
 Sadly, I am unsubscribing from this list.
 
   Those who care to make contact can connect with me directly.
 
   Later…
 
 
 
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   mark at: mk...@ucla.edu 

reposting the article on Firefox accessibility

[Mike Arrigo]

I will start a new thread with the article on Firefox accessibility, here it is.

https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/

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Re: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

You can also use Microsoft Edge though it works very much like Chrome since 
it's the same code base.

> On Jul 2, 2020, at 12:34 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>  It’s really nice to read that they have a plan in place and are seeing this 
> through. I really wanted an additional web browser beyond Safari that was not 
> Google Chrome.
> 
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:29 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  You bet. There is a lot in the blog, I skimmed it and will read more later.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Freedom of Speech Carries With
>> It Implicit Responsibility.
>> 
>> On 7/2/2020 10:19 AM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>  Thank you Sir. Got it. I appreciate it.
>>> Take Care
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>> On Jul 2, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  Here it is John.
>>>> 
>>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>>> Subject: article on Firefox accessibility on the mac
>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:29:47 -0500
>>>> From: Mike Arrigo 
>>>> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> 
>>>> This is really exciting, hopefully we will have very good voiceover 
>>>> support in Firefox very soon, and I would say that it is already off to a 
>>>> great start.
>>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/accessibility/proper-voiceover-support-coming-soon-to-firefox-on-macos/
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
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Re: selecting noncontiguous text

[Mike Arrigo]

I don't think there is a way to do this. I would suggest selecting and copying 
the first block of text that you want, then paste it where it needs to go, then 
repeat the process with the next block of text.

> On Oct 25, 2020, at 10:51 PM, Christina  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Is it impossible to select noncontiguous text in Safari with Voice Over on my 
> Mac? I know how to do so in Finder, but I'm talking about text, and not 
> items. I know mouse users can hold down the command key and use the mouse, 
> but that is no help to me. ☺️ 
> 
> Thanks,
> Christina
> 
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major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After booting 
from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing a new major 
operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from scratch. Wehn 
trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover crashes making 
this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else can reproduce 
this. I know there have been several other issues with using Voiceover in Big 
Sur recovery as well.

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Re: major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

Not yet, it happened on my macbook air, I want to test it on one of my mac 
minis, you could probably test it by booting your mac in to recovery, I think 
that's the same thing that is used when creating an install on an external 
drive.

> On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:29 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike. 
> 
> I just did a start upgrade.  I can give this a look at some point, have you 
> contacted apple accessibility about this?  Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:30 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After 
>> booting from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing 
>> a new major operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from 
>> scratch. Wehn trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover 
>> crashes making this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else 
>> can reproduce this. I know there have been several other issues with using 
>> Voiceover in Big Sur recovery as well.
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

This was with a 2018 macbook air. I followed the instructions in this article 
to create the install drive, that worked fine and I had no problem booting the 
mac with it.

https://www.macworld.com/article/3566910/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-big-sur-installer-drive.html


> On Nov 21, 2020, at 12:39 PM, maurice Mines  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I have some questions, one how did you create the USB install? There are 
> several machines here that need the upgrade. Two I have not found the issues 
> that people are talking about on my machine. I'm wondering if it really comes 
> down to how current in the hardware? This is a 2020 MacBook Pro. So I'm 
> wondering if that really is the defining issue with installing, And or 
> upgrading to Mac OS Big Sur.
> 
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2020, at 17:30, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After 
>> booting from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing 
>> a new major operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from 
>> scratch. Wehn trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover 
>> crashes making this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else 
>> can reproduce this. I know there have been several other issues with using 
>> Voiceover in Big Sur recovery as well.
>> 
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Re: major issue with Big Sur install

[Mike Arrigo]

I tried it on my mac mini and the same thing happens, attempting to access the 
list of drives in disk utility will cause voiceover to totally crash. I realize 
that a new release of an operating system may have some bugs but I would 
consider this a major bug, at this point, doing a clean install of Big Sur is 
not possible. I'm not sure if anyone from the applevis site is on this list but 
if so, you may want to add this to the Big Sur blog article.

> On Nov 21, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey,
> Have sent a report to Apple about this,
> It is a major major bug.
> 
>> On 22 Nov 2020, at 4:30 am, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I went ahead and created a Big Sur install on a USB flash drive. After 
>> booting from it, I discovered a major issue with Voiceover. When installing 
>> a new major operating system, I prefer to erase my drive and install from 
>> scratch. Wehn trying to access the list of drives in disk utility, voiceover 
>> crashes making this task impossible at this point. Wondering if anyone else 
>> can reproduce this. I know there have been several other issues with using 
>> Voiceover in Big Sur recovery as well.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: slack and voiceover?

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I use it every day at work, works very well, you can arrow up and down 
through the messages in a channel and the F6 key will move you to the different 
parts of the screen such as the side bar and channel list.

> On Jun 25, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Anyone using slack with voiceover?
> Just curious,
> Karen
> 
> 

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Re: New triple tap gesture for voiceover on iOS

[Mike Arrigo]

Doing a one finger tripple tap does a long press on the item and I guess for 
some items it makes a difference.

> On Jun 27, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> A while back, perhaps within the year, I have noticed that at times double 
> tapping a button does it activate the button. This happens primarily on video 
> play buttons. Then somewhere along the line I saw that there was a triple tap 
> gesture for iOS. So, I’ve tried recently doing a triple tap on the play 
> buttons and Wala, that’s what it takes to get the play button to activate the 
> video. When did this happen? I feel like I’ve been asleep at the wheel and 
> they snuck in a new gesture on me. Has this something to do with  video 
> players, that seems to be where I have noticed this particularly. 
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
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Re: Shark Clean iOS App

[Mike Arrigo]

I would say the best robots are from Roborock or Ecovacs, I would not suggest a 
Roomba, they are somewhat behind the times compared to the other two brands I 
mentioned.

> On Aug 26, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
> 
> Happy to discuss.  I’m currently researching the best robot vacuums and have 
> found that the iRobot Roomba are currently on sale. 
> 
> May make the switch.
> 
> Anybody have any experience with the Roomba app?
> 
> Thx,
> Jeff
> 
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Shameless FanGirl  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> I also have a Shark robot, and can confirm exactly what you describe here. 
>> App is a hot mess right now. Shall we try networking on this issue? 
>> 
>> Angie
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have a Shark robot vacuum which, until the latest version of the iOS app, 
>>> I have been able to work independently.  I do have some grumbles about the 
>>> product—I have to set the power level every single time, but that is 
>>> something I have taken up with their customer support team.
>>> 
>>> The latest version of the app is completely inaccessible.  I am able to 
>>> start the vacuum, but I’m not able to access the menu system or change the 
>>> power level of the suction.
>>> 
>>> Does anybody else use the Shark robot vacuum and can confirm this?
>>> 
>>> I’m currently in a battle with their support team, but I’m struggling with 
>>> even being able to get them to understand the basic principle of 
>>> accessibility.
>>> 
>>> They are headquartered in the States, so I expect they have to be compliant 
>>> with Section 508, but, as I am a Canadian, I’m not sure I can wield that 
>>> power. ;)
>>> 
>>> Thx,
>>> Jeff
>>> 
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Re: Shark Clean iOS App

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, it works really well.

> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:37 AM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
> 
> Have you had a good experience with the Roborock mobile app?
> 
> Thx,
> Jeff
> 
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 7:35 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> I would say the best robots are from Roborock or Ecovacs, I would not 
>> suggest a Roomba, they are somewhat behind the times compared to the other 
>> two brands I mentioned.
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Happy to discuss.  I’m currently researching the best robot vacuums and 
>>> have found that the iRobot Roomba are currently on sale. 
>>> 
>>> May make the switch.
>>> 
>>> Anybody have any experience with the Roomba app?
>>> 
>>> Thx,
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Shameless FanGirl 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi there,
>>>> 
>>>> I also have a Shark robot, and can confirm exactly what you describe here. 
>>>> App is a hot mess right now. Shall we try networking on this issue? 
>>>> 
>>>> Angie
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 26, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Jeff Berwick  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a Shark robot vacuum which, until the latest version of the iOS 
>>>>> app, I have been able to work independently.  I do have some grumbles 
>>>>> about the product—I have to set the power level every single time, but 
>>>>> that is something I have taken up with their customer support team.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The latest version of the app is completely inaccessible.  I am able to 
>>>>> start the vacuum, but I’m not able to access the menu system or change 
>>>>> the power level of the suction.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anybody else use the Shark robot vacuum and can confirm this?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m currently in a battle with their support team, but I’m struggling 
>>>>> with even being able to get them to understand the basic principle of 
>>>>> accessibility.
>>>>> 
>>>>> They are headquartered in the States, so I expect they have to be 
>>>>> compliant with Section 508, but, as I am a Canadian, I’m not sure I can 
>>>>> wield that power. ;)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thx,
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> 
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>>>&

Re: Installing windows on a Mac.

[Mike Arrigo]

On Apple Silicon macs, the only way to run Windows is to use Parallels, and 
unfortunately that software is completely inaccessible with Voiceover. Also you 
would need to run Windows for Arm processors which at this time is basically in 
beta, also not sure whether any of the screen readers would work with it. If 
you have an Apple silicon Mac, you would be better off getting a separate PC.

> On Nov 2, 2022, at 9:51 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Provided you have an Intel Mac, you can use Bootcamp. Unfortunately, you will 
> have to purchase Windows and I don’t know the cost. It may not be so bad 
> though as you will need Windows 10. M1 Mac you will need a completely 
> different set up and I understand it’s not the most stable. Might be cheaper 
> just to purchase a tablet which is the same thing unless you need a tun of 
> processor power.
> 
>> On Nov 2, 2022, at 09:43, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I didn’t think I’d ever see myself doing this, sense getting my first Mac, 
>> I’d intended to leave the Windows platform behind.  However, someone on our 
>> team at work has introduced us to training material through DHS, which, as 
>> helpful as it can be, is strictly windows-based, so in order to use its 
>> testing tools to complete the courses they offer, that’s the only choice I 
>> have.  So as a result, I have a couple of questions.
>> First of all, how much is it going to cost to do this, and second, (if I 
>> just took the NVDA route) because buying Jaws at this point is the last 
>> thing I can afford, and something I really don’t want to tie up money in 
>> just to do 1 thing with.  Also, how would I go about installing it with 
>> Voiceover/no CD rom drive?
>> 
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Re: Alex Voice

[Mike Arrigo]

There is only one version of the Alex Voice. The best way to adjust the rate in 
small steps is to go to the voiceover utility, choose the speech category and 
interact with the language and voice table. There is an edit field where you 
can type in the rate you want, I use 37 and for me that’s just right.

> On Nov 6, 2022, at 10:22 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>   Is there just one version of the Alex voice? If I trash it then go back and 
> check the voices list there is Alex at 800 something mb. But it is not listed 
> in the speech rotor. After I download it, its about 955mb. Still trying to 
> fix its speaking rate. Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
> will make violent revolution inevitable."
> --John F. Kennedy
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: VOiceOver fluctuating in pitch after upgrading to Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I have noticed this as well.

> On Nov 9, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Dolores Manzino  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was experiencing VoiceOver fluctuating in pitch 
> after updating to Ventura. I am and it’s really frustrating. It goes from low 
> to normal, and switching voices or adjusting pitch and intonation in 
> VoiceOver settings doesn’t seem to solve the problem. Right now the Fiona 
> voice sounds like a man, and it’s worse with Alex. Does anyone have any idea 
> how to solve this? I have an EMail into Apple Accessibility. Thank you for 
> any assistance you can provide.
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> Dolores
> 
> A cat’s purr is the sweetest sound 
> 
> 
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Re: System Preferences Missing

[Mike Arrigo]

It’s now called system settings in Ventura, system preferences is no more.

> On Nov 11, 2022, at 1:23 AM, Mohammad Fazil  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Group.for some unknown reasons, I am not finding system Preference in 
> Apple Menu. What I’m finding is system settings only. Where should I look for 
> SP,please?
> Thanks!
> 
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runningios apps on the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Hi everyone, I’m wondering if anyone has tried running IOS apps on an Apple 
silicon Mac and if so, how well do they work with Voiceover? Do the controls 
read? I am absolutely loving my new M1 mac minis and M2 MacBook Air. For those 
who have not tried an Apple silicon Mac yet, they are awesome and I think 
Ventura has some really nice features.

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Re: Running Windows on Apple Silicon MBP

[Mike Arrigo]

Last I checked, Parallels was not accessible with Voiceover, in order to run 
Windows on an Apple Silicon Mac, you need to sign up for the Microsoft insider 
program and download Windows for ARM processors which has not been officially 
released. If you need to use Windows you would be better off just getting a PC.

> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:13 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> To my knowledge, parallels is the only way to do this.  However, I’ve never 
> attempted to do this, so I’m not sure as to how accessible running parallels 
> is.
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Mohamed Fayed  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Hope my mail finds you well,
>> 
>> What is the recommended method for running windows 10 or 11 on Apple Silicon 
>> with Mac OS 13? 
>> 
>> I may run either windows 10 or 11. What would be the best option? Or 
>> actually what are the available options in this regards?
>> 
>> How software looks like ?
>> 
>> Thank you so much, 
>> 
>> Mohamed E. Fayed  
>> 
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Re: Running Windows on Apple Silicon MBP

[Mike Arrigo]

What exactly is VOCR? The web page didn’t really describe what it was or how it 
works.

> On Apr 26, 2023, at 7:54 PM, Michael Babcock  wrote:
> 
> I am currently running windows 11 on an M2 Mac mini. I’m using parallels, had 
> to use VOCR in order to get through the set up process, but it’s a pretty 
> seamless process to get going.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 5:30 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> I just saw a post from someone about an option called UTM. I understand 
>> they have made some recent changes to improve accessibility.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 19:22, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Last I checked, Parallels was not accessible with Voiceover, in order to 
>>> run Windows on an Apple Silicon Mac, you need to sign up for the Microsoft 
>>> insider program and download Windows for ARM processors which has not been 
>>> officially released. If you need to use Windows you would be better off 
>>> just getting a PC.
>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:13 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> To my knowledge, parallels is the only way to do this.  However, I’ve 
>>>> never attempted to do this, so I’m not sure as to how accessible running 
>>>> parallels is.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Mohamed Fayed  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope my mail finds you well,
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is the recommended method for running windows 10 or 11 on Apple 
>>>>> Silicon with Mac OS 13? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I may run either windows 10 or 11. What would be the best option? Or 
>>>>> actually what are the available options in this regards?
>>>>> 
>>>>> How software looks like ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you so much, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mohamed E. Fayed  
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
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Re: Dropbox on Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

The dropbox mac application works fine, at least it does for me.

> On Jun 6, 2023, at 10:10 PM, Janet Ingber  wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> Does anyone know of an accessible Dropbox app for the Mac? I’m not crazy 
> about using the Dropbox website to upload files.
> 
> Many thanks,
> Janet
> 
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Re: Dropbox on Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, you do need to do an actual mouse click on the dropbox item to open it 
now, hopefully they will fix that at some point.

> On Jun 6, 2023, at 10:21 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> From the Website, download the Dropbox app and that will make your life much 
> simpler. The one thing they did break recently is the way you access it 
> through the Menu Extras. You now have to route your VO cursor with Command VO 
> F5 and then VO Shift space, but that’s Livable. Also, I find Chrome works 
> better for the site when doing things like recovering deleted files.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2023, at 20:10, Janet Ingber  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Does anyone know of an accessible Dropbox app for the Mac? I’m not crazy 
>> about using the Dropbox website to upload files.
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> Janet
>> 
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Re: Mack questions

[Mike Arrigo]

As far as extended batteries, you might consider getting a power bank, these 
are portable batteries with USB ports that will charge recent mac laptops that 
charge over USB C.
As far as speaking the information you asked about, pressing VO+F7 once will 
provide the time and date and pressing it twice will provide battery 
information.

> On Jun 23, 2023, at 6:37 PM, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> I have some mack questions to ask to the list.  Is their a way to get a 
> extended battery for my mack?  Is their a short cut for finding out what the 
> battery level is and also a short cut to fine out the time on the computer?
> Thanks 
> Becky 
> 
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Re: Mack questions

[Mike Arrigo]

I don’t have this power bank but I do have other Anker products and they are 
great so I would suggest checking out this power bank from them.
https://www.anker.com/products/b1291?variant=41742689468566&ref=collectionBuy&discount=WS24129120

> On Jun 23, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> VO F7 to your last too,questions if running Ventura and there are portable 
> battery banks you can get for Macs. 
> 
>> On Jun 23, 2023, at 16:37, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, 
>> I have some mack questions to ask to the list.  Is their a way to get a 
>> extended battery for my mack?  Is their a short cut for finding out what the 
>> battery level is and also a short cut to fine out the time on the computer?
>> Thanks 
>> Becky 
>> 
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Re: Finder issues becoming more severe

[Mike Arrigo]

Drives should not be disappearing, I have two M1 Mac minis and I have used USB 
flash drives and a Seagate mechanical hard drive, sometimes connected to one of 
the USB A ports and other times using a USB C to USB A adapter and have not had 
any problems at all. One thing I would suggest, always connect drives to the 
Mac itself, no hubs or keyboard ports, those can definitely cause problems.

> On Jun 24, 2023, at 6:16 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Have you called Apple support? It sounds like something a bit more serious 
> than a simple problem. You might want to see what they say.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 24, 2023, at 5:04 PM, 'Mary Ward' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello.  I had a drive or two that I thought were causing problems in the 
>> Finder on my M1 Mac mini.  Drives were getting burned up and just not 
>> functioning right.  I got rid of the hub.  Unfortunately, though, I am now 
>> having problems with drives no matter how they are connected.  Is the Finder 
>> just not stable on these Macs?  I even plugged a little thumb drive into the 
>> USB port on my Apple keyboard.  I tried several times to copy some files and 
>> the drive disappears.  I expect it to be slow, but not to disappear.
>> 
>> Is this a known problem?  Do I need to take this Mac to the Apple Store?  
>> Thanks for any insights into this growing problem.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

[Mike Arrigo]

I’m quite happy with my macs, especially the new Apple Silicon models, I have 
no interest at all in switching to Windows.

> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, it seems like we are having more than a few messages on this list 
> about the disappointment in Mac’s VoiceOver performance.
> 
> Are quite a few of you thinking of switching back to windows? Or are a lot of 
> you overall still happy with the VoiceOver experience?
> 
> I think I am mostly curious about this, because I have been talking about 
> updating my MacBook Eyre. I guess part of me is beginning to wonder, should I 
> get a Windows laptop instead? I would be very disappointed to spend $900 on a 
> MacBook Air, and still have a lot of performance issues.
> 
> What are your guises thoughts?
> 
> Thank you,
> From Traci's MBA20.
> 
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Re: Concerned about the future Mac accessibility

[Mike Arrigo]

Wait until you try the Apple Silicon mac, it is so much better and faster than 
the Intel, you will love it.

> On Sep 7, 2023, at 11:53 AM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Hi  I am  having  some  small  issues, but  no  showstoppers whin  it comes  
> to  Mac OS accessibility. That  being said. I am using  a  beta on  an Intel 
> based Mac. I  am  switching  to  a  silicon based Mac next week. If  I  need 
> Windows for  dictation, thin  I will  use a virtual Windows  installation, to 
>  allow  me  to  due  that.
> 
> Maurice Mines.
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2023, at 16:23, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, it seems like we are having more than a few messages on this list 
>> about the disappointment in Mac’s VoiceOver performance.
>> 
>> Are quite a few of you thinking of switching back to windows? Or are a lot 
>> of you overall still happy with the VoiceOver experience?
>> 
>> I think I am mostly curious about this, because I have been talking about 
>> updating my MacBook Eyre. I guess part of me is beginning to wonder, should 
>> I get a Windows laptop instead? I would be very disappointed to spend $900 
>> on a MacBook Air, and still have a lot of performance issues.
>> 
>> What are your guises thoughts?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> From Traci's MBA20.
>> 
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Re: Accessible robot vacuum cleaners.

[Mike Arrigo]

The roomba app is very accessible, but Roomba's navigation is behind the times, 
it uses a camera for navigation instead of Lidar, I would suggest something 
from Roborock, app is accessible and much better robots.

> On Nov 24, 2023, at 11:30 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> iRobot Roomba app is very accessible.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 24, 2023, at 3:02 AM, Steve Z.  wrote:
> 
> Hi list, first of all, I’m sorry for the off-topic question.
> I would like to know which robot vacuum cleaner is accessible with voiceover, 
> since they all use apps, and how much accessible. for example, what we can, 
> and cannot do.
> Thanks in advance
> 
> 
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Re: Using Parallels

[Mike Arrigo]

I’m surprised you got Parallels to work, last time I tried it, it was 
completely inaccessible with Voiceover.

> On Dec 29, 2023, at 10:02 AM, 'Matt Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks.
> I still have and intel mac and wanted to get a new one in the new year.
> I’ve been playing with Parallels, and so far I like it.
> I just can’t seem to get the Caps lock key to work with Jaws or NVDA.
> Does Anyone have any idea?
> 
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Re: Using Parallels

[Mike Arrigo]

If you purchase an Apple silicon Mac, you can use Parallels with the version of 
Windows for ARM processors, the company has been contacted by several voiceover 
users about the lack of accessibility and it appears that the company has no 
plans to address it.

> On Dec 29, 2023, at 10:48 AM, 'Matt Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> to set it up, I have to use VOCR to read the screen.
> My VO key is caps lock key.
> it’s like the VM doesn’t see the key.
> 
>> On Dec 29, 2023, at 11:44 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you saying that parallels is now accessible at least to some degree? I 
>> thought it was a complete black box for Mac voiceover users
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 29, 2023, at 11:14 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As  strange as it seems, telling VoiceOver to use the CAPSLOCK key and 
>>> keeping VoiceOver running while in Windows might resolve this issue. It did 
>>> for me with VMWare 3 years ago.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 11:02 AM 'Matt Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Hi folks.
>>> I still have and intel mac and wanted to get a new one in the new year.
>>> I’ve been playing with Parallels, and so far I like it.
>>> I just can’t seem to get the Caps lock key to work with Jaws or NVDA.
>>> Does Anyone have any idea?
>>> 
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Re: What is the best recording app for aM2 Mac?

[Mike Arrigo]

I use Amadeus Pro, it works great.

> On Jan 12, 2024, at 4:29 PM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Hi  I am  going  to  a fore day  similar but  I don’t wish to  take  my vary 
> good  podcast recorder. I wood like  to  record som  content for my  podcast 
> that I am restarting. I  wood  like  to  try to  use  the  computers 
> microphone. What  software will  work well  on  my  computer.i will  process 
> the  recordings whin  I return home from the  trip. Enney good  sujestions?
> 
> Maurice Mines.  
> 
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Re: How does one Ctrl Click?

[Mike Arrigo]

You can also move voiceover to the item you want to control click, than press 
VO+command+F5 to move the mouse to that item, then choose to right click the 
mouse from the voiceover menu. If you do this frequently you can define a 
keyboard command or trackpad gesture for it.

> On Jan 14, 2024, at 5:08 PM, Brandon Olivares  
> wrote:
> 
> Generally control-click is the same thing as bringing up the context menu, 
> which in VoiceOver is VO-shift-M.
>  From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> Date: Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: How does one Ctrl Click?
> Since with VoiceOver the click event already requires the Control key,
> i.e. VO Spacebar,
> how does one then Control Click an object?
> 
> I'm trying to follow instructions from the support pages for Logic Pro
> which say to Control Click the Control Bar, etc.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/
> 
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Re: A question for the list. Which of these two back up products is best or a VO user?

[Mike Arrigo]

I’m notsure if super duper is still in development, but Carbon Copy Cloner is, 
and it’s very accessible.

> On Jan 23, 2024, at 10:35 AM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
> 
> Good morning everyone, which one is better or a VO user, in terms of 
> usability and speed. One carbon copy koner? Two Super duper? If anyone has 
> any other suggestion, other than Time machine, please speak up?
> 
> Maurice Mines.
> 
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Re: Chrome browser on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I didn’t even know Chrome had a built in screen reader on the mac, interesting.

> On Mar 25, 2024, at 2:33 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I installed chrome on my MacBook Pro today and made the mistake of turning on 
> the screen reader during set up. It conflicts with voiceover, giving me 
> double voices etc. How can I shut off the screen reader in Google’s chrome 
> browser on my MacBook Pro. I think I heard something about control alt Z key 
> stroke will turn off the screen reader and I assume that corresponds to 
> control command Z on the Mac keyboard. Is this the valid key stroke for 
> turning the screen raider off?
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
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Re: Problem with numpad on Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

This also happens in Sonoma, I would call it a bug. The onlhy work around I 
know of is to use the VO arrow key combinations to leave the edit field after 
you type what you want, using the tab key also works.

> On Apr 28, 2024, at 8:52 AM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I am running the latest Ventura on my 1917 iMac. I use numpad commander on my 
> Apple Magic keyboard with Numpad keys. I use the Numpad keys to navigate 
> around my screen.
> This all works OK except sometimes when I am entering data into an Edit field 
> the numeric values on the Numpad get entered into the Edit area. This happens 
> when I am editing data in 1 Password entries and often when I enter a 
> password in Safari while logging onto a web site.
> Do others encounter this problem? Any ideas on why this happens and what I 
> need to do to fix it?
> My use of the Numpad commander is habitual and I often forget to stop using 
> it in the above cases.
> Many thanks for any ideas.
> Best …Paul Hopewell
> 
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Re: Problem with numpad on Ventura

[Mike Arrigo]

I actually have everything related to quick navdisabled, including allowing 
single letter quick nav and allow typing in text fields when using single key 
quick nav, the issue still happens with the numpad. Wait until you try an apple 
silicon mac, the speed is so much faster than the Intel processors.

> On Apr 28, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Ever since Single Letter QuickNav was created, VoiceOver would turn off 
> QuickNav when interacting with  input elements and/or  Text Fields. It sounds 
> like now that Single LetterQuickNav has been separated from arrow QuickNav 
> that they decided to merge this toggle with the numpad commander. Personally 
> I would want this to be a configurable option. I can’t play wit this as I am 
> currently stuck on Mojave . I will probably purchase a new Macintosh in May 
> or June  and have started to determine what system to purchase.
> I will miss my 11 inch MacBook Air that I dubbed “Speedy” as it so 
> outperformed my eMac.   .
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2024, at 1:56 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> My wife also has this issue in Sinoma 
>> Sonoma so not just you. I haven’t noticed this as much as I’m not a big 
>> Numpad Commander user and often use it as an actual num pad. Maybe they 
>> figure that’s how people would want to use it?
>>> On Apr 28, 2024, at 08:52, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I am running the latest Ventura on my 1917 iMac. I use numpad commander on 
>>> my Apple Magic keyboard with Numpad keys. I use the Numpad keys to navigate 
>>> around my screen.
>>> This all works OK except sometimes when I am entering data into an Edit 
>>> field the numeric values on the Numpad get entered into the Edit area. This 
>>> happens when I am editing data in 1 Password entries and often when I enter 
>>> a password in Safari while logging onto a web site.
>>> Do others encounter this problem? Any ideas on why this happens and what I 
>>> need to do to fix it?
>>> My use of the Numpad commander is habitual and I often forget to stop using 
>>> it in the above cases.
>>> Many thanks for any ideas.
>>> Best …Paul Hopewell
>>> 
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Re: Pitch change for capital letters in latest Sonoma is off the charts

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm seeing the same thing. For now I did the same work around you did, that 
pitch change is just too much, it makes Alex sound like Mickey Mouse.

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:54 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I have voiceover utilities set to increase or change pitch when encountering 
> a capital letter. Today after the latest Sonoma update, the pitch change is 
> so off the charts it sounds like somebody getting squeezed in a very private 
> part of their anatomy if you know what I’m saying. How can I lessen the 
> intensity of the pitch change for letters. My workaround was to set the 
> feature to say the word cap when encountering a capital letter instead of 
> changing the pitch but I would like to be able to use the pitch change. 
> Sent from my IPhone
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Re: Pitch change for capital letters in latest Sonoma is off the charts

[Mike Arrigo]

I don't know of any work around, as far as I know there is no way to set the 
pitch separately for indicating capital letters.

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 9:22 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Isn’t it though?  Almost reminds me of Mickey Mouse, but had no idea as to 
> whether ornate there was a workaround for it, or if we’re just stuck with it, 
> and the high pitch change drives me crazy.
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2024, at 9:54 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> I have voiceover utilities set to increase or change pitch when encountering 
>> a capital letter. Today after the latest Sonoma update, the pitch change is 
>> so off the charts it sounds like somebody getting squeezed in a very private 
>> part of their anatomy if you know what I’m saying. How can I lessen the 
>> intensity of the pitch change for letters. My workaround was to set the 
>> feature to say the word cap when encountering a capital letter instead of 
>> changing the pitch but I would like to be able to use the pitch change. 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
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Re: I hate Microsoft, VM fusion installation fails

[Mike Arrigo]

Windows 10 has some odd quirks. With the software I do tech support for, on 
some windows 10 systems, we have to install it a section at a time or it will 
not work. If the fusion install does not work, this would probably prevent you 
from being able to install it without sighted help as you could with previous 
windows versions. I'm reminded why I left the Windows world entirely for my 
home computers, far too many problems. Give me the Mac any day.
> On Aug 13, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Yeah,
> 
> If I remember correctly,
> I removed the installation and started again but usig a different version of 
> windows 10,
> 
> The benefits of havinga MSDN licence.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, 13 August 2016 12:51 PM
> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
> Subject: I hate Microsoft, VM fusion installation fails
> 
> So starting to play with windows again I remembered one reason I hate 
> microsoft so much.
> 
> I’m installing a new instance of windows 10, put in my key, start the 
> process, download the updates and after a while I get a very descriptive 
> helpful error.  It says “your installation of windows 10 has failed, click ok”
> 
> That’s so helpful in diagnosing the problem.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this and made heads or tails out of it?
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
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Re: Missing Something with DropBox on Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

The dropbox folder is usually within your home folder. I wouldn't even 
mess with the side bar here. Press command+shift+h to open your home 
folder, then open the drop box folder in the usual way.

Original message:
I’ve had a problem with using DropBox on my Mac Mini.  It seems that 
whenever I browse the Finder SideBar and land on the DropBox folder 
this terribly inaccessible DropBox app is launched rather than letting 
me open the DropBox folder and continue browsing.


Can anybody offer some advice? I’d prefer to use the DropBox folder 
like any other folder on the system.



Thanks!




- Bill & Leader Dog Holland
- "The problem with people who have no vices is that you can be pretty 
sure they are going to have some pretty  annoying virtues."

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Re: Here is the Text of the User Manual for the Nearby Explorer, for iOS, GPS Navigation App

[Mike Arrigo]

I think the information it provides is worth it, I have uploaded a pod cast to 
the blind geek zone web site, just waiting for it to be posted.
> On Aug 20, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Brian Moore  wrote:
> 
> Well, for $109.99 in the Canadian app store, I think I will wait for someone 
> to do a podcast demo or something.
> 
> I get pretty good results with blind square, google maps etc so spending 
> another hundred and 10 bucks might be worth it if the info is really good but 
> sort of want to hear what it does first.
> 
> 
> There is no demo rigght?
> 
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Re: Here is the Text of the User Manual for the Nearby Explorer, for iOS, GPS Navigation App

[Mike Arrigo]

Ok, here is the pod cast.
http://media.blubrry.com/blindgeekzone/p/www.blind-geek-zone.net/wp-content/uploads/gravity_forms/3-98839556b66feeea5fbbaaad6c392a4c/2016/08/nearby-explorer-IOS.mp3
> On Aug 20, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I think the information it provides is worth it, I have uploaded a pod cast 
> to the blind geek zone web site, just waiting for it to be posted.
>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Brian Moore  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, for $109.99 in the Canadian app store, I think I will wait for someone 
>> to do a podcast demo or something.
>> 
>> I get pretty good results with blind square, google maps etc so spending 
>> another hundred and 10 bucks might be worth it if the info is really good 
>> but sort of want to hear what it does first.
>> 
>> 
>> There is no demo rigght?
>> 
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Re: Here is the Text of the User Manual for the Nearby Explorer, for iOS, GPS Navigation App

[Mike Arrigo]

It's designed for blind users, but currently it only works in the United States 
and Canada.
> On Aug 21, 2016, at 1:31 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I didn’t know that this app was available for the Iphone.
> Is this an app thats designed for blind users or is it some other features 
> that people like with this app.
> /A
>> On 20 Aug 2016, at 17:14, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Mark.
>> 
>> Just in case, you sent to the Macvisionary list.  Did you mean to do that or 
>> did you mean to send it to the GPS list?  I knew you’d get it and I’m really 
>> glad you did as I was going to ask you to do that.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 20 Aug 2016, at 15:38, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,  
>>> 
>>> I must say that I am extremely impressed with the Nearby Explorer, for iOS, 
>>> GPS navigation app, developed by the American Printing House for the Blind. 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> So, for your convenience, in either enjoying the app or determining whether 
>>> or not to purchase it, I am pasting in the complete text of its user 
>>> manual, below my signature line.
>>> 
>>> A couple of things to note, however:
>>> 
>>> 1.
>>> Currently, this app only supports navigation in the United States and 
>>> Canada.  
>>> 
>>> 2.
>>> At the time of this post, the cost of the app is, in the U.S. App Store 
>>> anyway, $79.99.
>>> 
>>> 3.
>>> In order to successfully install the app, which includes its built-in map 
>>> of North America, you must have at least 4GB of free space available on 
>>> your iOS device.
>>> 
>>> 4.
>>> The direct URL to the online user manual, which includes a in-page 
>>> hyperlinked table of contents, omitted in this post, is:
>>> http://tech.aph.org/ne/index.html
>>> 
>>> 5.
>>> I have not edited the contents of this text in any way.  I simply copied 
>>> the text from the website; therefore some of the formatting may not be 
>>> consistent with the HTML version of the manual.
>>> 
>>> Finally, to you old-timers out there, I am delighted to report that this 
>>> app reminds me a great deal of the groundbreaking, GPS navigation solution 
>>> for the blind and low vision that started it all; I am referring, of 
>>> course, to Code Factory’s Mobile Geo.  
>>> 
>>> Okay, on to the show.  
>>> 
>>> Enjoy and Happy & Safe Traveling,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> Nearby Explorer for iOS User's Guide
>>> 
>>> Copyright 2016
>>> 
>>> American Printing House for the Blind, Inc.
>>> 
>>> 2016/8/19
>>> 
>>> Introduction
>>> 
>>> When sighted people use a global positioning system (GPS), their main 
>>> interests are getting directions and/or guidance to a destination. Blind 
>>> users appreciate these features as well, but generally desire more 
>>> orientation queues than are available on commercial GPS apps. Nearby 
>>> Explorer is a GPS app designed to provide these queues. When combined with 
>>> an accessible interface and customizable, current information about points 
>>> of interest (POIs), the tools provide a meaningful picture of the vicinity 
>>> and its characteristics.
>>> 
>>> Nearby Explorer works by:
>>> 1.displaying a screen containing several geography-related categories, 
>>> letting you turn on the ones of interest (announced as you move). You can 
>>> put the phone to sleep and continue receiving feedback or examine the 
>>> values on the screen.
>>> 2.letting you orient the phone in various positions to get more targeted 
>>> information about: ◦points of interest (POIs),
>>> ◦direction and streets, and
>>> ◦the closest point of interest.
>>> 
>>> 3.providing descriptive details such as: ◦intersection configurations as 
>>> you approach,
>>> ◦transit stop next time, direction of travel, and head sign for systems in 
>>> over 30 metro areas,
>>> ◦distance and adjustable direction to POIs, and
>>> ◦adjustable scope for prominence and proximity for POI announcements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Features
>>> 
>>> The information that Nearby Explorer provides helps the blind traveler stay 
>>> oriented. It shows surrounding and approaching streets, businesses, 
>>> institutions, and public facilities, and offers continually updating 
>>> distance and directional information to the nearest or selected location.
>>> 
>>> Nearby Explorer provides a sense of the surrounding streets and their 
>>> relationship to the user's current position. Additionally, it enables the 
>>> passenger in a vehicle to aid the driver with directions and suggestions.
>>> 
>>> About This Manual
>>> 
>>> This documentation was complete and accurate at the time of its writing. 
>>> When there are updates or corrections, you may find them at 
>>> http://tech.aph.org/ne_info.htm.
>>> 
>>> There is also an email list dedicated to the use of this app. This is the 
>>> place to make suggestions, provide tips, and ask questions. To subscribe to 
>>> the list, send a blank email to ne-subscr...@tech.aph.org.
>>> Adventurous users may wish to test upcoming features. To get more 
>>> information, join the beta list by sending a blank ema

Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on the iPhone seven

[Mike Arrigo]

I've never really understood the point of the Apple watch, sure it can 
run apps, but so what, my phone does that, and the watch requires a 
phone connection to do most things anyway, totally redundant.

Original message:

Hello Mary,


My point is simply that, unlike the era of Jobbs, the market, plays an 
active role in what the future brings.  We, as consumers, have 
alternatives and it's when we begin to explore these alternatives that 
companies pay attention.


Given Apple's issue with iTunes for Windows and its politically 
ridiculous decision to unilaterally put albums in its users' accounts, 
I'm not so certain that just because it decides something it better 
will make it so.


I remember the fan fair Apple made about its watch--they thought it 
would change the lives of the world.  Well, as far as I can tell, my 
world hasn't changed one bit either with or without it.


As far as Samsung is concerned, I don't think they'll be so quick to 
follow Apple's lead in the coming future.  As one of the executives of 
Samsung recently said, "Samsung is at its best when it leads, not when 
it follows."


My personal position is to just sit back, wait, and see.  Fortunately 
for me, I no longer have the desire to run out and purchase the latest 
device just because it is the latest.



Mark



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 12:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on 
the iPhone seven



Hi Mark,
Of course, only time will tell. But I think you are wrong about the 
disappearing headphone jack. For one thing, Samsung put back the 
storage card thing, but did not put back the user replaceable battery. 
Also, if the other rumor is true, Apple will be including compatible 
earbuds with the new phone, as well as an adapter to make it possible 
for people to use other headphones. Given the prevalence of Bluetooth 
these days, I suspect that the headphone jack will in fact be gone from 
iPhones forever. Other device makers are already moving in this 
direction. So it isn't just Apple. In fact, they will not be the first 
ones to market without a headphone jack on the phone.




Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:05 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:


Well, as for me, I'm going to sit back and see how the market accepts 
the new iPhone 7 trans a separate earphone jack.


When Samsung attempted to make its devices thinner by (1) removing the 
removable battery and (2) removing the ability to add auxiliary memory 
to its flagship phones, it soon reversed its decision as the market, 
effectively, rejected the devices in favor of other companies who kept 
those features.


A couple of years ago, when Apple decided to remove the ability for iOS 
devices to have their photo content immediately available to PC users 
upon attaching the device to the computer, the marketplace went crazy 
and vowed to turn to Android if Apple insisted on forcing people to use 
iTunes in order to manage photos.


Like Samsung, Apple immediately reversed itself by restoring this 
feature in the subsequent release of iTunes.


So, I'll just wait and see for, unless 7 is a complete hit, something 
tells me that iPhone 8 will bring the jack back (smile).



Mark



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gallik

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:43 AM
To: MacVisionaries E-Mail List
Subject: Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on 
the iPhone seven


When all the “hubbub” concerning Apple removing the earphone jack first 
appeared I was certain they (Apple) was going to provide an adapter so 
potential customers would be able to use their existing earphones with 
the iPhone 7. This coming to light does not surprise me in the least.


- Bill & Leader Dog Holland
- "The problem with people who have no vices is that you can be pretty 
sure they are going to have some pretty  annoying virtues."

- Elizabeth Taylor, 20th Century Screen Actress, (1932-2011)--



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To pos

Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on the iPhone seven

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm curious where you think Android accessibility is lacking, talkback 
has all of the major voice over features and you can accomplish all of 
the same tasks, it took Google a bit longer to get there than Apple 
did, but I would say both platforms are equal as far as accessibility, 
at least when it comes to using speech. Braille displays may be a 
different story.

Original message:
I'm in full agreement with you mark. The headphone jack removal has a 
huge negative accessibility impact for me personally, and I have to 
hope the inconvenience factor will cause Apple to regret the day they 
did this and reverse it. I frequent a forum for IT professionals here 
in New Zealand. I'm the only blind person there, and people are 
justifiably livid about the removal of the headphone jack. Most people 
don't want this, and I suspect based on what has leaked that the 
benefits to most people of upgrading will be so incremental that the 
lack of a headphone jack will cause a lot of people to sit it out.
That gives me some hope in a situation that has really affected me, 
because one thing that this process has taught me since I started 
blogging about the possibility of the headphone jack to raise the alarm 
at a time when it may have made a difference, is that I was naive to 
think that blind people might be any more sensitive to and respectful 
of the accessibility needs of others, such as the hearing impaired. I 
guess I would like to think that since we know what impact 
inaccessibility can have on our own lives, we would be sensitive to the 
needs of others, even when the issues didn't affect us directly. But 
that has proven a stupid pipe dream on my part, and I've found the 
whole thing really upsetting. For the most part, it seems like it's 
everyone for themselves these days, and if others are being thrown 
under the bus, well too damn bad.
As a hearing aid wearer, I can't use Apple's ear pods. As a hearing aid 
wearer, i need to have my phone connected to the headphone jack almost 
all the time I use it. Bluetooth latency is abysmal and not viable for 
someone who moves through their phone at a good clip. Even if this were 
to improve, Bluetooth drains hearing aid batteries in a profound way 
and it's difficult to get through an entire business day of use without 
the need to charge something.
And if I use the provided lightning adapter, then it appears I can't 
then charge my phone while I use my phone. This is the most senseless, 
selfish, stupid, user-unfriendly thing Apple has ever done. This 
company, which parades their accessibility efforts like some sort of 
badge of honour, appears to be about to crap all over one segment of 
its accessibility market.
Something isn't automatically the future because Apple says it is. And 
they're going too far this time, alienating too many people. Perhaps, 
in time, a USB-C-based solution is going to be viable, and receive 
carefully managed industry-wide adoption. But Apple isn't using USB-C 
on its iDevices. It's using a proprietary port that it doesn't even 
offer on its own personal computers, meaning you won't be able to use 
the Lightning-based Ear Pods even with a Mac. That's two sets of 
headphones you're going to have to carry around with you, unless you 
don't mind having an adapter jutting out of the port you want to charge 
your phone with. Absolutely absurd.
I believe it was Samsung that recently put out a series of ads mocking 
Apple over the potential lack of a headphone jack. They know Apple has 
given them a great gift. I just wish Android accessibility were more 
viable for daily use. Because once my 6s Plus eventually expires, I'm 
really going to be stuck. Hopefully, Apple will have seen sense by then 
because there is certainly going to be a backlash.

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org 



On 1/09/2016, at 6:15 PM, M. Taylor > wrote:



Hello Mary,


My point is simply that, unlike the era of Jobbs, the market, plays an 
active role in what the future brings. We, as consumers, have 
alternatives and it's when we begin to explore these alternatives that 
companies pay attention.


Given Apple's issue with iTunes for Windows and its politically 
ridiculous decision to unilaterally put albums in its users' accounts, 
I'm not so certain that just because it decides something it better 
will make it so.


I remember the fan fair Apple made about its watch--they thought it 
would change the lives of the world. Well, as far as I can tell, my 
world hasn't changed one bit either with or without it.


As far as Samsung is concerned, I don't think they'll be so quick to 
follow Apple's lead in the coming future. As one of the executives of 
Samsung recently said, "Samsung is at its best when it leads, not when 
it follows."


My personal position is to just sit back, wait, and see. Fortunately 
for me, I no longer have the desire to run out and 

Re: New iMac User

[Mike Arrigo]

I've done several pod casts on blind cool tech, you might check those out. 
Also, voiceover doeshave a built in tutorial which you can start by pressing 
control option command F8
On Feb 27, 2012, at 6:10 PM, Christine Pierce wrote:

> Hello, My name is Christine, and I just bought an iMac. I want to know if 
> there is any instructions or podcasts for using VoiceOver with commands. I 
> would really appreciate any help, thank you.
> 
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Re: Command For the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

There may be a built in mac command for this, but the voice over command is 
control option shift d
On Feb 28, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Christine Pierce wrote:

> Hi, If I am in mail, and I want to go to my desktop on my iMac, what
> is the command to do this? Thanks, Christine
> 
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Re: TUAW article with some strong opinions on Recognizer

[Mike Arrigo]

Interesting article, it is the first version of the app and I'm sure 
improvements will be coming, yes, the article did have some strong opinions for 
sure.
On Mar 6, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Cara Quinn wrote:

> Hi All, thought some might find this interesting… -Thoughts?…
> 
> Recognizer on TUAW (some pretty strong opinions)
> 
> http://www.tuaw.com/2012/03/06/hands-on-with-looktel-recognizer-visual-recognition-through-an/
> 
> Have a lovely evening All!
> 
> Smiles,
> 
> Cara :)
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
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Re: Let's hear each other!

[Mike Arrigo]

The skype interface on the mac can be a bit confusing at first, in general, the 
first table you come to in the skype window is kind of like the source list, it 
determines what is shown in the rest of the window, it does take some getting 
used to.
On Mar 7, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Vivianna wrote:

> Hi all,
> just thought i would write and give my skype info for anybody who would like 
> to assist a newbie.  smile.  or, just to chat.
> thanks.
> Vivianna
> Skype; irishana
> On Mar 7, 2012, at 5:13 AM, Rhonda Hornbacher wrote:
> 
>> That sounds awesome. Count me in.
>> Rhonda
>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Emrah wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>> 
>>> How about we organize a little group call on Skype and get to hear each 
>>> other's voices?
>>> 
>>> I think I can plug us on a little conferencing tool to extend the Skype 
>>> maximum number of simultaneous callers and we can also mix in people that 
>>> want to use a regular phone line.
>>> 
>>> Let me know. If you are interested, I will set up an online Doodle 
>>> (www.doodle.com) so we can organize this when it suits most of us.
>>> 
>>> Emrah
>>> 
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Re: iOS: how to use Siri correctly?

[Mike Arrigo]

In general, you talk to siri using natural language rather than using specific 
commands, try saying what you want to do or asking a question and see what 
happens.
On Mar 7, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Elena Brescacin wrote:

> Hi
> sorry if I am a bit silly in questions:
> how does Siri work?
> I mean:
> with my old 3GS's voice recognition, I was used to say:
> call John Doe
> the voice answered: which phone number should I call? mobile, main,
> home, iPhone, and so on.
> I just answered the word. main, iPhone, etc. without doing anything
> else before or after, and the call started.
> Now, I tried the same mechanism with Siri, on my 4S and it returned no answer!
> Call *contact
> siri answers: which phone numbers should I call? *numbers list
> I tried, both answering directly the question, and pressing the
> "listen" button the one representing a microphone and saying the
> single word. main, iPhone and so on
> nothing happened. Or, better. It answered: you said. Maine! instead of
> main, siri understood maine! maybe this is because of my
> not-native-english pronunciation, but who knows? I also listened to a
> demo siri video and they did not figure it out with phone calls, too
> but my doubt is: when talking to siri. every time you have to
> interact, you must press the microphone button?
> How does it work, for example, with a bluetooth headset on? just press
> the button used to activate voice recognition every time you have to
> perform a command for siri to answer?
> thanks a lot for your help
> 
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Re: QT applications

[Mike Arrigo]

I remember trying virtual box in snow leppard, it didn't work at all, the qt 
applications can also give windows screen readers problems. This is why 
developers should use the native controls for their applicatioons and not take 
short cuts like using these nonstandard tool kits.
On Mar 29, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote:

> Hi
> QT, not quicktime. QT, the GUI toolkit. Rockbox, for example, has absolutely 
> zero to do with quicktime at all. Perhaps I should have specified that, but I 
> guess I thought the names of apps would have made that clear.
> On Mar 29, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Esther wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jacob,
>> 
>> Is it possible that most of these applications ran QuickTime 7?  If Rockbox 
>> was built for the earlier versions, it almost certainly ran QuickTime 7. In 
>> Snow Leopard QuickTime 7 was still distributed on the system DVDs -- it just 
>> wasn't loaded by default.  In Lion you're going to have to separately 
>> download QuickTime 7 if you want older AppleScripts based on it to work.  
>> You'll also have to change those references from QuickTime to QuickTime 7.  
>> I had to do this to update my AppleScripts that speed up podcast listening.
>> 
>> To download QuickTime 7 for Lion, check the Apple KnowledgeBase support page:
>> • Installing QuickTime Player 7 on Mac OS X v10.6 or Later
>> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3678
>> 
>> HTH.  Cheers,
>> 
>> Esther
>> 
>> On Mar 29, 2012, at 4:33 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> So, I'm back on Mac (finally) now that Lion has fixed all of the bugs I 
>>> considered show stoppers in Snow Leopard. It's good to be back, however, 
>>> I'm having a rather strange problem that I can't account for. No 
>>> applications based on QT seem to be accessible anymore. These include 
>>> TeamTalk, Rockbox Utility, VirtualBox, and a few others. I didn't use 
>>> TeamTalk back in sl, but I did use Rockbox Utility and VirtualBox 
>>> regularly. In sl, QT applications were quirky but useable. In Lion, 
>>> however, I can't use them at all. Everything renders as unknown, and 
>>> interacting with these unknowns either reveals nothing or reveals more 
>>> blank unknowns inside. The bewildering part about this is that I know a few 
>>> people who do not have this issue with these same programs, so I'm trying 
>>> to trace it. So far, I've had no luck. I've tried in both 32-bit and 64-bit 
>>> modes (I come from a Linux background so I know how 32-bit and 64-bit 
>>> libraries can have trouble interacting with one another) but that doesn't 
>>> make a difference. I'm wondering if I'm missing a library somehow, but if I 
>>> am, it's one that doesn't come with Lion as I've set up Lion in a Fusion 
>>> virtual machine and still have the same problem.
>>> Can anyone shed some light on this? Those who have QT applications working 
>>> with VoiceOver, did you install or configure anything to make it work? If I 
>>> can get this bit working, I can ditch Windows for good.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>> 
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Re: No Carbonite on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I've actually heard that it does work, I think there is a trial, so you might 
download it and see how it works.
On Apr 2, 2012, at 5:20 PM, agent086b wrote:

> Hi all,
> recently I asked if Carbonite online backup could be used on the Mac with no 
> reply.
> I wrote to Carbonite and asked the question if Carbonite worked with 
> VoiceOver. I have received a reply from the company. They say that Carbonite 
> will not work with the Mac Screen reader.
> I have asked them to let me know if and when it will. As Carbonite is a 
> wonderful backup service that many of you could benefit from, you might like 
> to write to supp...@carbonite.com and ask that they make it accessible with 
> VoiceOver. They already have a Mac version of the program, it is just that 
> will not work with VO.
> 
> Does anybody use an online backup service that works with VO?
> Still finding as many answers before the switch to the iMac.
> Max.
> 
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Re: iPhone and t-mobile

[Mike Arrigo]

I use mine, works fine, only works at 2 g speeds but that's good enough for me.
On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:

> Hi all!
> Does anyone on here use their iPhone with t-mobile and if so, is it really 
> slow?
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> -
> Chat with me on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/jimintexas
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimintexas
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> Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys  
> 
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Re: iPhone and t-mobile

[Mike Arrigo]

Just the data connection, so the web and downloading apps, for things like 
phone calls, text messages, etc. there is no difference.
On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:

> Hi!
> is it just the web that is at that speed or the overall operation of the 
> phone?
> ?  Not sure how that all works.  Thanks for any info.
> Jim
> 
> On Apr 9, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> 
>> I use mine, works fine, only works at 2 g speeds but that's good enough for 
>> me.
>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all!
>>> Does anyone on here use their iPhone with t-mobile and if so, is it really 
>>> slow?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimintexas
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>>> Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: iPhone and t-mobile

[Mike Arrigo]

You can buy one unlocked and insert a t-mobile sim card.
On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Jasonlefevers.massage wrote:

> I m confused how do you get a iPhone with t Mobil? I thought it was only 
> Verizon, sprint, and AT&T where you can get iPhone service?
> 
> Jason LeFevers 
> State of Maryland Registered massage practitioner 
> Call 443-570-8660 or email jasonlefevers.mass...@gmail.com to schedule a 
> massage today! 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 9, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Jim Gatteys  wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>> is it just the web that is at that speed or the overall operation of the 
>> phone?
>> ?  Not sure how that all works.  Thanks for any info.
>> Jim
>> 
>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>> 
>>> I use mine, works fine, only works at 2 g speeds but that's good enough for 
>>> me.
>>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all!
>>>> Does anyone on here use their iPhone with t-mobile and if so, is it really 
>>>> slow?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> Chat with me on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/jimintexas
>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimintexas
>>>> Skype: jimintexas
>>>> Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: Disabling the preview pane in Lion mail

[Mike Arrigo]

I do find that moving through messages is more responsive with the preview pane 
turned off. Interesting that the voiceover click mouse command doesn't work 
here, but it definitely does not.
On Apr 15, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Esther wrote:

> Hi Anne,
> 
> Just as an added comment, in situations like this one, where I want to make 
> sure that the mouse pointer doesn't move when I double click, and a physical 
> click with trackpad or mouse is required, I use mouse keys instead to perform 
> the click.  After routing my mouse cursor to the VoiceOver cursor with 
> VO-Command-F5, I quickly press the option key 5 times to turn on mouse keys, 
> then I double tap the "i" key instead of performing a double click with mouse 
> or trackpad, and turn mouse keys off again by quickly pressing the option key 
> 5 times.  As you know, this requires having the box in the System Preferences 
> > Universal Access > Mouse & Trackpad tab checked for "Press the Option key 
> five times to turn Mouse Keys on or off".  This will work whether or not 
> Trackpad Commander is turned off.  Also, you can additionally check the 
> option for "Ignore built-in trackpad when Mouse Keys is on" if you press 
> (with VO-Space) the button for "Trackpad Options…" on the Mouse & Trackpad 
> tab of the Universal Access menu of System Preferences in Lion.
> 
> This is for cases where people have difficulty with clicking the mouse or 
> trackpad without moving the pointer, but it's useful in general to know.  
> It's most useful when using applications which are transitioning in 
> accessibility, where neither VO-Space or VO-Shift-Space will work to click on 
> controls, and you need to perform physical clicks.  Turning mouse keys on and 
> clicking with the "i" key always works as an alternative in these instances.
> 
> HTH.  Cheers,
> 
> Esther
>   
> On Apr 15, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Anne Robertson wrote:
> 
>> Hello Franc,
>> 
>> First of all, you need to be in classic view to do this. You also need to 
>> have the Trackpad Commander turned off.
>> 
>> Go to the horizontal splitter above the body of the message using the VO 
>> keys, then bring the mouse (VO-Cmd-F5) and double click using either the 
>> trackpad or the mouse, depending on what kind of computer you have. If you 
>> move the mouse pointer even slightly before the double click, it won't work.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> On 15 Apr 2012, at 16:10, Frank Ventura wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all, I am using a Mac with the latest of Lion. Can anyone tell me how to 
>>> disable the preview pane in Mac mail. I had some old directions for, I 
>>> think, Leopard but they don't seem to work.
>>> Thanks
>>> Frank
>>>  
>>> 
> 
> 
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Re: question about Macbook Pro

[Mike Arrigo]

There is a short cut for getting mail, it's command shift n, as far as a quick 
way to launch the mail program, I have a short cut in the doc, so, I press 
control+f3 to go to the doc, press m for mail, and press enter to launch it, 
quite fast.
On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:43 PM, Mickey Quenzer wrote:

> Hello:
> Well, this is the first message that I've sent with my MacBook Pro.
> 
> Can someone tell me If there is a shortcut key to run the mail program?  
> Also, and is there a shortcut key to get new mail?
> 
> I still have my pc getting mail for now!
> Thanks for any help!  
> Mickey Quenzer!
> 
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Re: Skype on the Mac made accessible?

[Mike Arrigo]

Skuype for the mac works fine for me, press command 2 to access the dial pad, 
then just type the numbers you want.
On Apr 30, 2012, at 4:06 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

> This message is for Kevin Chow if he is working with Skype on the Mac with 
> Skype Team.
> 
> Hi Kevin.
> 
> I have been using Skype on the Mac for a long time and when Google had the 
> program, it worked beautifully with the Mac.  However since Microsoft have 
> bought it, it has not been very good on the Mac.
> 
> The dial pad is inaccessible.  Is there any way of getting Skype for Mac 
> fixed?
> 
> If there are other issues, feel free any one to say if Kevin is going to get 
> this sorted.
> 
> Kawal. 
> 
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screen reader survey

[Mike Arrigo]

Hey everyone, the fourth screen reader survey from web aim is now available, I 
would encourage everyone to participate so voiceover gets a good useage rading, 
here is the link.
http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey4/

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backing up apps in itunes

[Mike Arrigo]

Hey everyone, I'm wondering what everyone thinks of keeping their apps backed 
up in itunes. Do most of you do this? The reason I ask is, since you can 
redownload them if needed by going to the purchased tab in the app store, I've 
thought about deleting them from my computers and freeing up several GB of disk 
space.

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Re: What does ESI mean when receiving a Mac Book Pro firmware update?

[Mike Arrigo]

Efi stands for extensable firmware interface. It's sort of the equivilent of a 
PC's bios.
On May 16, 2012, at 3:42 AM, Daniel McGee wrote:

> Hi all, since having my Mac Book Pro from mid-December of last year there 
> have been a couple of Fermware updates for my system which I went ahead and 
> installed but I just had a general question. I have noticed that they say ESI 
> before saying the update. I was just wondering what that stood for. Nothing 
> like curiosity! LOL   
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Daniel
> 
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Re: Tutorials or resources for learning voice over on the Mac?

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm not sure there is a version of companion for the mac, though you really 
don't need it since you can copy files manually, I've done several pod casts 
that are posted on blind cool tech that many have found helpful. If you have 
skype, we could use that and I could help you get started.
On May 17, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Debbie Worstman wrote:

> Hi, I would like to know where I can find current tutorials or resources on 
> how to use voice over on a Mac?
> I am particularly  wanting to know the steps for downloading and installing 
> programs like RS games, and  Humanware Companion
> Thank you
> 
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Re: MBP vs MBA VS...

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm surprised that apple still includes a 64 gb drive with the first model, I 
would think 128 GB should be the minimum, 64 gb is too small to really be 
useful.
On Jun 13, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:

> This has not been answered so I'll give it a bash.
> 
> There is more to consider here than just processor, all the MBA's have an 
> SSD, solid state drive, and as such, notably out perform their native MBP 
> units which are fitted with traditional SATA drives. Of course it is possible 
> to up spec an MBP to include an SSD which removes this advantage, but, still 
> its at an extra cost.
> 
> RAM is the key to multi tasking, and depending on how many Applications, and 
> what they are, 4Gb should be enough for the majority of users. If you are 
> doing more heavy stuff, then you may wish for more, which immediately removes 
> the MBA from the question, as it is limited to 4Gb.
> 
> Quick note, this assumes you're getting not one of the very brand new MBA's 
> which now can be speced up to 8Gb RAM.
> 
> All in all, I don't  consider  the MBP worth going for on the bases of the 
> disk drive, unless you need one of those all the time, if you occasionally 
> might need one, just buy the USB Super Drive, its relatively cheap and keeps 
> the weight of your portable machine down.
> 
> I have an 11in MBA speced to the max, and find it more than aderquitely, in 
> fact, I see no lag whatsoever when its in use. I generally have Mail Safari 
> with 6+ tabs open, numbers, pages and text edit all on the go at the same 
> time, and the MBA doesn't even fire up its fan.
> 
> ask yourself what you're going to be doing with it, and how much work load 
> that genuinely entails…
> 
> now consider that the MBA is a notable amount lighter than the MBP and how 
> much that may or may not bother you.
> 
> cannot really say more than that on the topic.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Neil Barnfather
> 
> Talks List Administrator
> Twitter @neilbarnfather
> 
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple 
> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
> 
> URL: - www.talknav.com
> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
> 
> 
> 
> On 23 May 2012, at 14:04, Joanne Chua wrote:
> 
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> After been friend with IMac and trial on older generalation of MBP for
>> a while, and the fact that my 5.5 year old Dell laptop is slowly
>> giving up due to overheating, i think i'm quite ready to slowly but
>> surely move in to the Apple Mac family completely.
>> 
>> Can i have some general fit back as to the performance for both MBP and MBA?
>> 
>> I am thinking of either get the MBA 13 inch with 1.8GHZ or MBP 13inch
>> with 2.8GHZ.
>> 
>> I'm a university student and also someone  who's part time employ that
>> do alot of multitasking on my computer. So, features like capability
>> of multitasking, will definitely a must  for me. however, i don't
>> necessary need to access to CD drive although having it could be a
>> bonus.
>> 
>> At the moment, i have a 22inch secondhand IMac, and also the
>> possibility of having a 24Inch second hand IMac in the near future.
>> 
>> I also have extensive experience with IPhone and IPad2.
>> 
>> My question is, what is the different from MBA with 1.8GHZ to MBP with
>> 2.8GHZ in terms of speed, capability, and multitasking ability?
>> 
>> Also, if i go down the path of havine an ipad3, will it be sort of
>> wasting the vallue of having MBA, and should go directly for MBP
>> instead?
>> 
>> I am well aware, and do realize that the physical size and weight of
>> MBA and MBP are different. But if we put the size and weight aside,
>> what are the plus and miness to having MBA compare to MBP?
>> 
>> Your advice and opinion is very much appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Joanne
>> 
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Re: Downloading bard books with the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

You can monitor the download progress in the tool bar. I download bard books 
all the time, usually when you unzip them, a folder is created that contains 
all of the files, copy that to your player, works great.
On Jun 30, 2012, at 7:22 PM, Rachel Feinberg wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I've had the mac for a month and a half and absolutely love it thus far. I 
> was recently presented with a challenge when downloading bard books. Is there 
> some sort of progress indicator I could somehow receive so I know when it has 
> finished downloading in Safari? And beyond that, what is the best way to 
> extract the zip contents of the folder? Wehn I use the default program on the 
> mac, or even iZip, it doesn't extract anything useful and i get a folder with 
> a .zip.CPGZ extension. I ended up using windows through a virtual machine to 
> get the  book downloaded  and extracted as their was progress indicator's 
> given, and I was able to successfully extract the folder contents then put it 
> onto a supported device.
> Help with this would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
> Rachel 
> 
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Re: Downloading bard books with the mac

[Mike Arrigo]

Click the download button to see the download list. Once the fileis downloaded, 
open it in the usual way, it should unzip and create the folder on its own.
On Jul 1, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Rachel Feinberg wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> 
> all i see in the Toolbar is the downloads button, nowhere to monitor 
> progress. And if you wouldn't mind, please describe how unzipping them  is 
> possible to get the files I need in order to play these books?
> Thanks again.
> Rachel
> On Jul 1, 2012, at 6:25 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> 
>> You can monitor the download progress in the tool bar. I download bard books 
>> all the time, usually when you unzip them, a folder is created that contains 
>> all of the files, copy that to your player, works great.
>> On Jun 30, 2012, at 7:22 PM, Rachel Feinberg wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>> 
>>> I've had the mac for a month and a half and absolutely love it thus far. I 
>>> was recently presented with a challenge when downloading bard books. Is 
>>> there some sort of progress indicator I could somehow receive so I know 
>>> when it has finished downloading in Safari? And beyond that, what is the 
>>> best way to extract the zip contents of the folder? Wehn I use the default 
>>> program on the mac, or even iZip, it doesn't extract anything useful and i 
>>> get a folder with a .zip.CPGZ extension. I ended up using windows through a 
>>> virtual machine to get the  book downloaded  and extracted as their was 
>>> progress indicator's given, and I was able to successfully extract the 
>>> folder contents then put it onto a supported device.
>>> Help with this would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rachel 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: what Voiceover bugs people want or are hoping will be fixed or squashed in Mountain Lion?

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, the safari busy thing is annoying, as a work around, you can use google 
chrome, doesn't have that problem.
On Jul 2, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Becky Knaub wrote:

> I wish they would fix the Safari busy issue. and update iWork's especially 
> pages so it would read the whole document without constantly stopping at the 
> end of every pager. It disrupts reading. Other than that I don't really have 
> any issues with Mac or VO.
> 
> Becky
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Blinkin wrote:
> 
>> I hope they fix Quicktime when starting the screen recorder.
>>  In snow leopard when you pressed start recording you got a pop up 
>> telling you how to stop it and then pressed a second start recording button 
>> to begin.
>>  Now, I have to turn off trackpad commander, click the record button, 
>> and click on the trackpad until I hear VO speak again. It took me a few 
>> tried to even figure out that it had started to record.
>> Not a huge deal but still helpful.
>> 
>> Mike 
>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 1:33 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> besides the busy thing in Safari, I honestly can't thing of anything as far 
>>> as bugs go.  I'm sure there is a couple more but, I probably run into them 
>>> infrequently.
>>> 
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>> 
>>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Daniel McGee  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi all, a while ago on this list I saw someone mention that they would 
 like so and so bug to be fixed in Mountain Lion. 
 I would just really like to start a discussion on if there are not many 
 enhancements to Voiceover in the next OS, then what bugs would you like 
 fixed and hope Apple has done there job with it. 
 I'll go 1st. 
 For me its safari. two things for me. 
 1. Now and then when I go back a page with CMD left bracket Voiceover 
 doesn't announce my list of headings or links that I have set in VO 
 utility. 
 2. continuing this previous page thing, because I don't always know when 
 the page is fully loaded when going back, I get the lovely "Voiceover 
 Busy!" Not! 
 This is using Lion V7.4 and Safari 5.1.7 
 
 So what are yours? 
 
 I hope this will become an interesting topic because I'm interested to see 
 what people can come up with and I'm sure there will be some good ones! 
 
 So everyone, the dance floor is yours! LOL 
 
 Daniel   
 
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Re: is a paid screenreader for the mac a option?

[Mike Arrigo]

I agree that Apple's model is better because the issue is addressed 
where it should be, at the application level. A screen reader developer 
making scripts removes the responsibility from the app developer. Of 
course, some developers just are unwilling to fix the accessibility 
issues with their application, and in those cases, using an alternative 
is the answer. For example, microsoft office on the mac is not 
accessible, use Iwork instead. Parallels is not accessible, fusion is a 
great alternative.

Original message:

One of the double edged swords is that many apps work in the Jaws world
because the developer has written jaws-specific scripts for their app.
These scripts get around shortcomings in either the screen reader or the
app's communication with the accessibility APIs. They are often times
written by a contracted 3rd party and, by definition, are brittle. So
when the next OS, app or Jaws release comes out the scripts break and
have to be fixed and re-released. This cycle is the antithesis of
future-proofing. Apple took a different approach where the screen reader
and accessibility APIs are robust enough that this scripting shouldn't
be needed but it also means that a general app developer needs to care
enough to bake accessibility in. This also means they can't just make
their app and farm out accessibility to some 3rd party contractor as in
the Jaws model. I'm convinced that the Apple model is better long term
but am concerned that it requires a general app developer to now become
aware of accessibility, which doesn't always happen. The good part is
that Apple's development frameworks get a lot of accessibility stuff
baked in 'for free'. The downside is that custom widgets or anything
special probably needs the developer to do extra accessibility work,
which they often do not. So it's not really Apple's fault that Microsoft
has written their entire app using their own custom widgets, but it is
Microsoft's fault for not hooking their widgets into the well defined
accessibility APIs. Likewise for Mozilla and many others.



In the end, I want Apple's futureproof accessibility for free model to
work, I'm just unsure if developers are buying into the value of
providing accessible apps. The success record there has been kinda spotty.



CB



On 6/25/12 8:08 AM, William Windels wrote:

Hello,
After working for more than 3 years with the mac , it's my personal 
opinionthat more basic programs are accessible on windows then on the 
mac platform.


I find it more stable to work on the mac because of the integration of 
the screenreader voiceover with the osx.
The fact that the hardware is also adapted for us by the trackpad and 
the function-keys with the spoken values.
And of course the flexible way we can install , manage the system with 
voiceover support everywhere.


However, we can't e.g. configure dropbox with voiceover while this is 
possible on windows, office programs like microsoft office and also 
iWork's aren't fully accessible with lay-out tasks, in my opinion there 
are several usability issues with the browsers on the mac, some 
ellements of the os , like
Tables, on websites and on numbers and pages, are very difficult to 
navigate e.g. you can't search for edit-fields on websites while they 
are in a table and in pages, you can't work with tables on a comfortable way.
the icon's on the status bar, can't be reached on a normal way with 
voiceover...


My conclusion: a paid screenreader for the mac that makes program's 
accessible with scripts (like screen readers on windows do), should be 
very welcome I think.
With this kind of optional screenreader, blind users should be able to 
use all the equivalents on the mac of their windows favorites.  Perhaps 
it should push apple  to make their screenreader better on a faster speed.



Why such screenreader doesn't exist yet?
I see 2 reasons for this:
1. Apple should not be happy with this and the screenreader of apple 
should have more possibilities to integrate with the os then the 
external screenreader.
2. Other communities don't see a reason to make a screenreader for the 
mac while there is one built in.
If it should be the second reason, any people with accessibility 
frustrations on the mac , should communicate this to other companies 
like gw micro, freedom scientific, baum...



Any opinions about this meanings should be very welcome.
kind regards,
William Windels





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Re: is a paid screenreader for the mac a option?

[Mike Arrigo]

There is o paid screen reader for the mac, nor is there really a need 
for one. I will address a few of your concerns. Not sure what you mean 
about browser support, I have no problems searching for fields or 
navigating tables on the web. Regarding the issues with Microsoft 
office programs, this is because microsoft refuses to follow the 
standards Apple has created. So, this is not the fault of the screen 
reader, it's the application developer's fault for not using the tools 
Apple has provided.

Original message:

Hello,
After working for more than 3 years with the mac , it's my personal 
opinionthat more basic programs are accessible on windows then on the 
mac platform.


I find it more stable to work on the mac because of the integration of 
the screenreader voiceover with the osx.
The fact that the hardware is also adapted for us by the trackpad and 
the function-keys with the spoken values.
And of course the flexible way we can install , manage the system with 
voiceover support everywhere.


However, we can't e.g. configure dropbox with voiceover while this is 
possible on windows, office programs like microsoft office and also 
iWork's aren't fully accessible with lay-out tasks, in my opinion there 
are several usability issues with the browsers on the mac, some 
ellements of the os , like
Tables, on websites and on numbers and pages, are very difficult to 
navigate e.g. you can't search for edit-fields on websites while they 
are in a table and in pages, you can't work with tables on a comfortable way.
the icon's on the status bar, can't be reached on a normal way with 
voiceover...


My conclusion: a paid screenreader for the mac that makes program's 
accessible with scripts (like screen readers on windows do), should be 
very welcome I think.
With this kind of optional screenreader, blind users should be able to 
use all the equivalents on the mac of their windows favorites.  Perhaps 
it should push apple  to make their screenreader better on a faster speed.



Why such screenreader doesn't exist yet?
I see 2 reasons for this:
1. Apple should not be happy with this and the screenreader of apple 
should have more possibilities to integrate with the os then the 
external screenreader.
2. Other communities don't see a reason to make a screenreader for the 
mac while there is one built in.
If it should be the second reason, any people with accessibility 
frustrations on the mac , should communicate this to other companies 
like gw micro, freedom scientific, baum...



Any opinions about this meanings should be very welcome.
kind regards,
William Windels



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