date:20140113

Hi Phil,
  Yes I have attempted to complete the tutorial three times.  I can't 
get VoiceOver to work in it either.  It beeps at me.

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:21:55 PM UTC-5, phil halton wrote:
>
> have you tried to learn VoiceOver basics by opening the VoiceOver help 
> menu and selecting the quick start tutorial? Once you've worked through 
> that tutorial you can read through the  getting started  guide? 
> Me thinks you're making it far more complicated than it is. Honestly, 
> start at the beginning, learn VO basics by taking the quick start tutorial, 
> then move on to reading systematically through the getting started guide 
> which is essentially a webpage in Safari that covers every aspect of 
> VoiceOver - it's really quite thorough and easy to read.
>
> The best advice I ever got when I first started learning to use a mac was 
> to forget everything I thought I knew and just start at the beginning. 
> Also, take a deep breathe and keep things simple - it's not so hard if 
> people like me and others here can master it, then so can you.
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 3:58 PM, April Brown > 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Regina,
>
>   I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail.  However, 
> when I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, 
> the screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a 
> good way to relax for twenty minutes.  While learning something new I will 
> need full time before long.
>
>   I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all 
> the corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to 
> guess how the rest goes together
>
> I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands.  And 
> they are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably 
> useless to me without a definition  sheet.  How can I guess what the 
> command is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to 
> me?
>
> I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye.
>
> Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow.  Another way, perhaps.
>
> On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote:
>>
>> April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to 
>> close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe 
>> Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made 
>> the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time 
>> Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you 
>> like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you 
>> should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and 
>> writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only 
>> starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I 
>> forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become 
>> really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the 
>> commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear 
>> hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can 
>> understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info 
>> is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac 
>> was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of 
>> similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. 
>> Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change 
>> operating systems. However, we can do this!
>>
>>
>> reggie and Allegra
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully.   I still 
>> have some vision, some days.  I now have a headache.  Thanks to Ray Foret, 
>> I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to 
>> read it without clicking where I need it to go.  I have to learn to learn 
>> this before I am completely blind.  Or perhaps, it would be better for me 
>> to not, and use a Braille display instead.  However, I will likely retain 
>> some hearing at least another five to ten years.  I still don't under stand 
>> half the words on these manuals.   It's Greek and Chinese mixed.  I'm, glad 
>> there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order 
>> to do things in.  I can't figure it out.  And with poor memory, I'll need 
>> it written to ever duplicate it.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote:
>>>
>>> April,
>>>
>>> I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why 
>>> you're taking it.
>>>
>>> In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever 
>>> turned Voiceover off.  You don't need to "clear" anything.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
>>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown  wrote:
>>>
>>> The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it 
>>> back up

Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver

Hi Shawn,

 Thanks.  I do have Skype.   I am going to try a couple of different 
things over this week, and thankfully a few people have offered to help.  
If this doesn't work, maybe I need the program checked.

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:46:44 PM UTC-5, Shawn AKA BBS wrote:
>
> Hi April. I may be of some help. I have two options for you because you 
> say you want one-on-one training. If you have Skype, you can add me to 
> Skype and I'll be happy to teach you the basics to Voiceover. I have a 
> friend on here that I've taught how to use the Mac and it helped her 
> greatly. The other option is a website but it's not the cheapest 
> option. You can go to www.blindaccesstraining.com and request for 
> one-on-one training there. I hope you'll take into consideration all 
> the options I've told you. 
>
> -- 
> Shawn 
> Sent From My White MacBook 
>

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Re: MacGourmet on sale for $9.99 at the Mac App Store today (January 12, 2014)

2014-01-13 Thread Jessica D

Can i use the ios version & get the mac version at a later date?
Does the ios version work on ipad?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:07 AM, Esther  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I recall during the discussion of cooking apps that some of you were 
> interested in Mac Gourmet.  I just noticed it is on sale at the Mac App store 
> for $9.99, reduced from it's usual list price of $24.99.  The announcement 
> says "Polar Vortex Promo! Embrace the cold and save money! Promotion ends 
> January 13th!" -- which could mean in a few hours.
> Here's the App Store URL:
> • MacGourmet ($9.99 on sale, lists for $24.99) by Mariner Software
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet/id403560571?mt=12
> The deluxe version of MacGourmet with meal-planning, nutritional information, 
> and generating shopping lists is also on sale, but at less of a discount:
> • MacGourmet Deluxe ($34.99 on sale, lists for $39.99)
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet-deluxe/id412646750?mt=12
> There is also an iOS app:
> • Gourmet (for iOS) ($1.99 on sale, lists for $3.99)
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gourmet-for-ios/id711561842?mt=8
> 
> Please read the reviews.  While I have used the previous version of 
> MacGourmet on the Mac quite successfully, there have been multiple problems 
> reported with the cloud syncing with iOS.  (One of the reasons I recommended 
> Paprika Recipe Manager.)
> 
> HTH.  Cheers,
> 
> Esther
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Re: Clamshell, or no sleep when closeing the Mac.

2014-01-13 Thread Daniel Hawkins

Bingo! It worked! I went thru the Preference Pane and it asked me if I want no 
sleep to work on ac power or battery power. So I checked the ac power only.

Thanks! I have been struggleing with this for over a week.
Daniel Hawkins
- Posted from my Macbook Pro

2012 15in. Macbook Pro
2.3 Quad-core i7
4GB DDR3
500GB HDD

Dual Boot:
Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit

On Jan 13, 2014, at 4:35 AM, Piotr Machacz  wrote:

> No sleep is accessible.  If you want to toggle it through the no sleep 
> utility in the menu bar, you can’t just vo-space on it because, as you’ve 
> noticed it won’t work. You need t root the mouse to it and actually click 
> (vo-cmd-F5, then VO-shift-space) which ill toggle it on and off. Thesecond 
> way to control it, which is more accessible and customisable, is through its 
> preference pain. This one doesn’t really need any explanation, just find no 
> sleep in your system preferences and check the boxes you want. 
> On 13 Jan 2014, at 03:29 am, Daniel Hawkins  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> The past few days I have been trying to figure out a way to keep my Mac from 
>> going into sleep mode when I close the lid. There are times when I’m 
>> downloading, or recording, or recoding files and it may take hours, so I 
>> want to close my Macbook Pro lid so my cat don’t jump on.
>> 
>> So far I have tried Isomniax and it don’t work with Maverick. I have tried 
>> No Sleep, but I can’t seem to get it to work. Do you guys know any 
>> accessable way to turn off sleep when I’m plugged in the power?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Daniel Hawkins
>> - Posted from my Macbook Pro
>> 
>> 2012 15in. Macbook Pro
>> 2.3 Quad-core i7
>> 4GB DDR3
>> 500GB HDD
>> 
>> Dual Boot:
>> Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Moving through tabs and Closing them in Mavericks Safari

2014-01-13 Thread Dionipher Presas Herrera

i just want to add in here, how to open a link in a new tab?
On 13 Jan 2014, at 02:59 am, Daniel Hawkins  
wrote:

> I am not sure what is the best method. But here is what I do.
> 
> Assuming you are in the HTML area. Now deinteract that, which I use Quicknav, 
> by pressing left and down arrow at the same time. Now hit left arrow untill 
> you get to the disired tab. Select it. now cmd w to close. or if you select 
> it just go right and reinteract the HTML area
> Daniel Hawkins
> - Posted from my Macbook Pro
> 
> 2012 15in. Macbook Pro
> 2.3 Quad-core i7
> 4GB DDR3
> 500GB HDD
> 
> Dual Boot:
> Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit
> 
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 7:47 PM, Lee Jones  wrote:
> 
>> Dear List, how do you cycle through tabs in mavericks safari and close them. 
>>  In the menus it says command w same as closing a window, but how does it 
>> know whether you want the windows closing or the tab within the window 
>> closing?  Command W always brings up mission control for me.
>>  
>> Many Thanks, Lee   
>> 
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> 
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Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver

Hi April. Well if you feel comfortable, you can add me to Skype and 
I'll do my best to help you as well. My Skype name is bbstheblindrapper.


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Sent From My White MacBook

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Re: MacGourmet on sale for $9.99 at the Mac App Store today (January 12, 2014)

2014-01-13 Thread Esther

Hi Jessica,

I haven't tried the iOS app, but I just noticed that the version of 
MacGourmet they put on sale in the Mac App Store is version 3, and the iOS 
app requires version 4 in order to support cloud syncing.  This does not 
seem very honest to me -- the version that they are selling directly from 
their web site (at full price) is version 4, which they will presumably 
shortly release to the Mac App Store.  However, one of the reviews said 
that they had contacted the developer directly and been given a serial 
number they could use with the version 4 downloaded from the web site in 
the meantime, which would be OK (just as long as you know about it, and 
don't end up having to pay again for the app).

The iOS app is supposed to be universal (so, yes, it should work on either 
the iPhone or the iPad), but I haven't tried it for accessibility. In 
theory you could try the iOS app, and import recipes into a cloud account. 
 But remember, historically the app developers did a good job on the Mac 
app, and didn't have good support for the iOS app.  There are some reports 
of crashes in the reviews.  I posted the information on MacGourmet because 
of the previous interest.  I can only recommend the Mac App (which I have 
in version 3).  The computer to computer sharing has some more features.  I 
don't know how well this works for iOS.  I see that version 4 (at least) 
has an FAQ for importing recipe formats from Paprika Recipe Manager. And I 
know Paprika can import MacGourmet formats.

Sorry not to have more information about this, but I've been using Paprika 
for the iOS functions.  HTH. Cheers,

Esther

On Monday, January 13, 2014 1:41:07 AM UTC-10, Jessica D wrote:
>
> Can i use the ios version & get the mac version at a later date?
> Does the ios version work on ipad?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:07 AM, Esther wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I recall during the discussion of cooking apps that some of you were 
> interested in Mac Gourmet.  I just noticed it is on sale at the Mac App 
> store for $9.99, reduced from it's usual list price of $24.99.  The 
> announcement says "Polar Vortex Promo! Embrace the cold and save money! 
> Promotion ends January 13th!" -- which could mean in a few hours.
> Here's the App Store URL:
> • MacGourmet ($9.99 on sale, lists for $24.99) by Mariner Software
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet/id403560571?mt=12
> The deluxe version of MacGourmet with meal-planning, nutritional 
> information, and generating shopping lists is also on sale, but at less of 
> a discount:
> • MacGourmet Deluxe ($34.99 on sale, lists for $39.99)
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet-deluxe/id412646750?mt=12
> There is also an iOS app:
> • Gourmet (for iOS) ($1.99 on sale, lists for $3.99)
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gourmet-for-ios/id711561842?mt=8
>
> Please read the reviews.  While I have used the previous version of 
> MacGourmet on the Mac quite successfully, there have been multiple problems 
> reported with the cloud syncing with iOS.  (One of the reasons I 
> recommended Paprika Recipe Manager.)
>
> HTH.  Cheers,
>
> Esther
>
>
>

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Today's Plan

I get to spend the afternoon doing one of my favorite things (and yes, this 
is honest, not sarcastic): Re-formatting a computer for one of hubby's 
co-workers.

While in that room - Hubby and I will try the VoiceOver trainer on his Mac, 
and see if he has any luck figuring it out.

Most people say that if between his computer knowledge, and mine, it cant 
be figured out, it either can't be important, or it isn't easy.

I can figure out earthquake, volcano, and even some physics terms 
relatively easy.  And yet, these term that I cannot find defined anywhere 
on the net that are used in the VoiceOver training are OverWhelming.

Regina, I did see that link to Sarai's post, and have read all the pages on 
that site, even before my first post on here.

Oh, and hubby thinks he knows why I can use Dictation in social media, and 
not Pages to tell a story.  In social media, I rarely use inflection.  
However, I am a storyteller, so in novel writing, I have all kinds of 
inflection and excitement.  I don't talk in a monotone while recording a 
story.  Makes sense.

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Re: MacGourmet on sale for $9.99 at the Mac App Store today (January 12, 2014)

2014-01-13 Thread Jim Gatteys

Esther, since Mac Gourmet has been totally taken over by Mariner software they 
are trying to make up for lost time.  They are very responsive in relation to 
accessibility issues and I have heard others say that they honor upgrades if an 
older version is purchased through the app store.  The iOS seems to be 
accessible although I have not loaded any recipes into it yet.  I'm still 
sorting out all the ones I have on my mac.  I think it is much easier to get 
recipes into Mad Gourmet but I do really like the bulk import feature that 
Paprika has to offer.  I wish Mac Gourmet would come up with a way to do that 
as well.  I think that Mac Gourmet has a lot of extra features but each person 
will have to decide if the price is worth it.  If a person just wants to store 
recipes then Paprika seems like a great option.  To me it seems more basic but 
then the price is cheaper as well,.One thing that I noticed when exporting my 
recipes from Mac Gourmet to Paprika which I recently purchases for comparison 
sake was that the database seems to be smaller in size in Paprika but not sure 
if that was a fluke or if that is just the way it works out.  But if that is 
the case then maybe it will be smaller on an iDevice as well.
Jim


On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:37 AM, Esther  wrote:

> Hi Jessica,
> 
> I haven't tried the iOS app, but I just noticed that the version of 
> MacGourmet they put on sale in the Mac App Store is version 3, and the iOS 
> app requires version 4 in order to support cloud syncing.  This does not seem 
> very honest to me -- the version that they are selling directly from their 
> web site (at full price) is version 4, which they will presumably shortly 
> release to the Mac App Store.  However, one of the reviews said that they had 
> contacted the developer directly and been given a serial number they could 
> use with the version 4 downloaded from the web site in the meantime, which 
> would be OK (just as long as you know about it, and don't end up having to 
> pay again for the app).
> 
> The iOS app is supposed to be universal (so, yes, it should work on either 
> the iPhone or the iPad), but I haven't tried it for accessibility. In theory 
> you could try the iOS app, and import recipes into a cloud account.  But 
> remember, historically the app developers did a good job on the Mac app, and 
> didn't have good support for the iOS app.  There are some reports of crashes 
> in the reviews.  I posted the information on MacGourmet because of the 
> previous interest.  I can only recommend the Mac App (which I have in version 
> 3).  The computer to computer sharing has some more features.  I don't know 
> how well this works for iOS.  I see that version 4 (at least) has an FAQ for 
> importing recipe formats from Paprika Recipe Manager. And I know Paprika can 
> import MacGourmet formats.
> 
> Sorry not to have more information about this, but I've been using Paprika 
> for the iOS functions.  HTH. Cheers,
> 
> Esther
> 
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 1:41:07 AM UTC-10, Jessica D wrote:
> Can i use the ios version & get the mac version at a later date?
> Does the ios version work on ipad?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:07 AM, Esther wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I recall during the discussion of cooking apps that some of you were 
>> interested in Mac Gourmet.  I just noticed it is on sale at the Mac App 
>> store for $9.99, reduced from it's usual list price of $24.99.  The 
>> announcement says "Polar Vortex Promo! Embrace the cold and save money! 
>> Promotion ends January 13th!" -- which could mean in a few hours.
>> Here's the App Store URL:
>> • MacGourmet ($9.99 on sale, lists for $24.99) by Mariner Software
>> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet/id403560571?mt=12
>> The deluxe version of MacGourmet with meal-planning, nutritional 
>> information, and generating shopping lists is also on sale, but at less of a 
>> discount:
>> • MacGourmet Deluxe ($34.99 on sale, lists for $39.99)
>> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet-deluxe/id412646750?mt=12
>> There is also an iOS app:
>> • Gourmet (for iOS) ($1.99 on sale, lists for $3.99)
>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gourmet-for-ios/id711561842?mt=8
>> 
>> Please read the reviews.  While I have used the previous version of 
>> MacGourmet on the Mac quite successfully, there have been multiple problems 
>> reported with the cloud syncing with iOS.  (One of the reasons I recommended 
>> Paprika Recipe Manager.)
>> 
>> HTH.  Cheers,
>> 
>> Esther
>> 
>> 
> 
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Recovery particion

2014-01-13 Thread -



A great many functions in os10 under preferences etc. are handled under 
the hood by utilities one can also access in terminal.  Diskutility is the 
one that would appear to be the one the mac uses for repair permmissions 
and disk repair.


Here is the command in terminal to repair permissions:

sudo diskutil repairpermissions

The sudo is to allow access to some functions and will prompt for one's 
password to proceed.


Do a:

man diskutility > textfile

This will capture the man help page for this utility to a textfile of your 
choice, it is large as these things go.  Look for this option:


repairVolume

That would appear to do the 2nd of what you want.  I have only used the 
repair permissions so read the man page for the 2nd option.  Also a google 
for:


os10 diskutility repairVolume

Will get more often then not a discussion of the experience of others 
using the diskutility and the given option.



HTH.  XB

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Re: Today's Plan


Good luck with that April. And don't forget I'm here to help if you need it.

--
Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook

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Re: Today's Plan

2014-01-13 Thread Donna Goodin

April,

Just a few comments that I hope will be helpful.

First, it seems like you've turned this thing into a dragon.  It really isn't 
it's just a piece of software.  Treat it that way.  You're not climbing a 
mountain.  Many of us, myself included found the Mac very frustrating at the 
beginning.  for me, that lasted about three months, and then suddenly 
everything just clicked..  I don't think this is due to any inherent problems 
on the Mac, but rather that it was a new system and new screen-reader.  I'm 
pretty sure I was equally frustrated with JAWS and Windows, but that was so 
long ago now that I've forgotten how frustrated I was.  So take it easy, and 
take it in very small chunks.

Second, don't rely too much on your husband.  I'm not sure it's always 
intuitive to sighted person how someone who is blind or low-vision uses a 
computer, so his take/experience with Voiceover may not be the best measuring 
stick.  this may apply to you as well.  You've mentioned that you're losing 
both your hearing and your vision.  That is going to require that you figure 
out new ways of interacting with things, which is inevitably going to be quite 
frustrating at times.  So while you may have a lot of computer knowledge, I 
suspect that you are doing more than just learning to use a Mac, you're 
relearning how to use a computer.

Regarding the terms you say overwhelm you, if you can figure out physics terms, 
then you know that every discipline, and even subdisciplines, have their 
specific terminology.  If you don't know what a hot-spot is, either google it, 
or ask one of us.  We'd be happy to tell you.  Asking questions and then 
getting answers is a much better use of this list then just venting your 
frustrations, though of course many of us have had occasion to do that as well. 
:)

As for dictation, I hate to shoot down your husband's theory, but it isn't 
context-based.  So it works the same way, whether your using Facebook or Pages. 
 It cares less about the inflection in your voice than it does the clarity of 
your speech.  One key difference that I can see between social media and a 
pages document is that the latter is usually much longer.  So I'm wondering if 
the chunks you are dictating in your social media posts are simply shorter, and 
thus you're having better luck.

Just some thoughts, hope they're helpful.
Good luck today,
Donna
On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:47 AM, April Brown  wrote:

> I get to spend the afternoon doing one of my favorite things (and yes, this 
> is honest, not sarcastic): Re-formatting a computer for one of hubby's 
> co-workers.
> 
> While in that room - Hubby and I will try the VoiceOver trainer on his Mac, 
> and see if he has any luck figuring it out.
> 
> Most people say that if between his computer knowledge, and mine, it cant be 
> figured out, it either can't be important, or it isn't easy.
> 
> I can figure out earthquake, volcano, and even some physics terms relatively 
> easy.  And yet, these term that I cannot find defined anywhere on the net 
> that are used in the VoiceOver training are OverWhelming.
> 
> Regina, I did see that link to Sarai's post, and have read all the pages on 
> that site, even before my first post on here.
> 
> Oh, and hubby thinks he knows why I can use Dictation in social media, and 
> not Pages to tell a story.  In social media, I rarely use inflection.  
> However, I am a storyteller, so in novel writing, I have all kinds of 
> inflection and excitement.  I don't talk in a monotone while recording a 
> story.  Makes sense.
> 
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Re: MacGourmet on sale for $9.99 at the Mac App Store today (January 12, 2014)

2014-01-13 Thread Jessica

I have just purchased both the ios and mac version. My first question is: how 
do i import a recipe? also, can you use all recipes.com?

Jessica
jldai...@gmail.com



On Jan 13, 2014, at 7:48 AM, Jim Gatteys  wrote:

> Esther, since Mac Gourmet has been totally taken over by Mariner software 
> they are trying to make up for lost time.  They are very responsive in 
> relation to accessibility issues and I have heard others say that they honor 
> upgrades if an older version is purchased through the app store.  The iOS 
> seems to be accessible although I have not loaded any recipes into it yet.  
> I'm still sorting out all the ones I have on my mac.  I think it is much 
> easier to get recipes into Mad Gourmet but I do really like the bulk import 
> feature that Paprika has to offer.  I wish Mac Gourmet would come up with a 
> way to do that as well.  I think that Mac Gourmet has a lot of extra features 
> but each person will have to decide if the price is worth it.  If a person 
> just wants to store recipes then Paprika seems like a great option.  To me it 
> seems more basic but then the price is cheaper as well,.One thing that I 
> noticed when exporting my recipes from Mac Gourmet to Paprika which I 
> recently purchases for comparison sake was that the database seems to be 
> smaller in size in Paprika but not sure if that was a fluke or if that is 
> just the way it works out.  But if that is the case then maybe it will be 
> smaller on an iDevice as well.
> Jim
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:37 AM, Esther  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jessica,
>> 
>> I haven't tried the iOS app, but I just noticed that the version of 
>> MacGourmet they put on sale in the Mac App Store is version 3, and the iOS 
>> app requires version 4 in order to support cloud syncing.  This does not 
>> seem very honest to me -- the version that they are selling directly from 
>> their web site (at full price) is version 4, which they will presumably 
>> shortly release to the Mac App Store.  However, one of the reviews said that 
>> they had contacted the developer directly and been given a serial number 
>> they could use with the version 4 downloaded from the web site in the 
>> meantime, which would be OK (just as long as you know about it, and don't 
>> end up having to pay again for the app).
>> 
>> The iOS app is supposed to be universal (so, yes, it should work on either 
>> the iPhone or the iPad), but I haven't tried it for accessibility. In theory 
>> you could try the iOS app, and import recipes into a cloud account.  But 
>> remember, historically the app developers did a good job on the Mac app, and 
>> didn't have good support for the iOS app.  There are some reports of crashes 
>> in the reviews.  I posted the information on MacGourmet because of the 
>> previous interest.  I can only recommend the Mac App (which I have in 
>> version 3).  The computer to computer sharing has some more features.  I 
>> don't know how well this works for iOS.  I see that version 4 (at least) has 
>> an FAQ for importing recipe formats from Paprika Recipe Manager. And I know 
>> Paprika can import MacGourmet formats.
>> 
>> Sorry not to have more information about this, but I've been using Paprika 
>> for the iOS functions.  HTH. Cheers,
>> 
>> Esther
>> 
>> On Monday, January 13, 2014 1:41:07 AM UTC-10, Jessica D wrote:
>> Can i use the ios version & get the mac version at a later date?
>> Does the ios version work on iPad?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:07 AM, Esther wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> I recall during the discussion of cooking apps that some of you were 
>>> interested in Mac Gourmet.  I just noticed it is on sale at the Mac App 
>>> store for $9.99, reduced from it's usual list price of $24.99.  The 
>>> announcement says "Polar Vortex Promo! Embrace the cold and save money! 
>>> Promotion ends January 13th!" -- which could mean in a few hours.
>>> Here's the App Store URL:
>>> • MacGourmet ($9.99 on sale, lists for $24.99) by Mariner Software
>>> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet/id403560571?mt=12
>>> The deluxe version of MacGourmet with meal-planning, nutritional 
>>> information, and generating shopping lists is also on sale, but at less of 
>>> a discount:
>>> • MacGourmet Deluxe ($34.99 on sale, lists for $39.99)
>>> https://itunes.apple.com/app/macgourmet-deluxe/id412646750?mt=12
>>> There is also an iOS app:
>>> • Gourmet (for iOS) ($1.99 on sale, lists for $3.99)
>>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gourmet-for-ios/id711561842?mt=8
>>> 
>>> Please read the reviews.  While I have used the previous version of 
>>> MacGourmet on the Mac quite successfully, there have been multiple problems 
>>> reported with the cloud syncing with iOS.  (One of the reasons I 
>>> recommended Paprika Recipe Manager.)
>>> 
>>> HTH.  Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Esther
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: How to use emacs on mac

2014-01-13 Thread Kjsc Radio



Thats what i would like to know. Jonnyboy! Iphones rock!

> On 13 Jan 2014, at 2:41 am, Sean Murphy  wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> How do you get Emacspeak to work on Emacs for the Mac?
>> On 13/01/2014, at 1:02 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse  wrote:
>> 
>> the last time i needed VI was when i installed boom on the mac mini
>> and had too manually delete all of its files, i found out at that time
>> that vi was not too be had from my recovery disk, so rm too the rescue
>> ;d
>> That, is a another story intirely though:)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sandi
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/11/14, Teresa Cochran  wrote:
>>> Oh, my, I had a horrible time with VI, because I didn’t RTFM, of course, and
>>> I couldn’t get out of it. More and more control characters kept appearing
>>> from my attempts to press escape and control-q, and then when I found that
>>> exiting was an obscure command like ZZ or something really disjointed, I
>>> complained to a programmer friend of mine. He said it was all completely
>>> logical. Now I know how some people feel when they learn Braille! :) anyway,
>>> Emacs is only slightly less intuitive to my way of thinking, but I took the
>>> time to RTFM before I used it. :)
>>> 
>>> Ok, I’ll bite, RTFM is Read the Frigging Manual. :)
>>> 
>>> Teresa
>>> 
>>> Slow down; you'll get there faster.
>>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 hi Teresa, no problem, usually when i need that kinda editor, i would
 use a proper one, "vi" but that is just me , hides under a very solid
 table, that is all religion though.
 Best
 
 
 Sandi
 
 
> On 1/11/14, Devin Prater  wrote:
> Going to the terminal and typing "emacs" should be sufficient.
> Sent from my braille plus 18
> 
> Teresa Cochran  wrote:
> 
>> hi, Sandi,
>> 
>> There might be some confusion here. Emacs is a desktop that you start
>> from
>> Terminal. Do you have this? i haven’t found it natively or on Macports
>> or
>> Homebrew, which you have to install. Can you tell me the steps you use
>> to
>> run it?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Teresa
>> 
>> "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard
>> P.
>> Feynman
>> 
>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> am not sure how one would install emacsspeak, but emacs seems too be
>>> installed on my version of ml,
>>> 
 On 1/11/14, Teresa Cochran  wrote:
 I may google this today. I so don’t want to install from source, as I
 don’t
 have enough knowledge of command line to do this yet. I also don’t
 want
 to
 use VO with emacs, because VO is a bit unpredictable when you get
 outside of
 the shell.
 
 Teresa
 
 "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
 it's
 too
 dark to read."--Groucho Marx
 
> On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I've also wanted to use emacs with emacspeak for a while now.
> Sent from my braille plus 18
> 
> Kjsc Radio  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi all, just a simple question, do you know how I could compile
>> emacs
>> to
>> work in the terminal? And how would i get it working? Thanks all.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver

2014-01-13 Thread Tim Kilburn

Hi April,

It seems to me that you might be pressing incorrect key combinations when 
trying to use VoiceOver.  Either that, or you have a physical problem with your 
keyboard that is affecting the activation of the Control and/or Option keys.  
There’s not really much that should have happened software-wise that would 
explain your issues.

Two things to try, if your keyboard is an Apple keyboard, and you have four 
keys to the left of the space bar, then the furthest left key is the FN key, 
and moving right will be the ctrl key, then the Option key and finally the cmd 
(Command) key.  If your keyboard has only three keys to the left of the 
spacebar, then the FN key is elsewhere on the keyboard and those three keys are 
the ctrl key at the far left, then the Option key followed by the cmd (Command) 
key.  When we mention pressing VO or the VO keys, then you need to press the 
ctrl and option simultaneously and whatever other keys are needed.  If you are 
using a non-Apple keyboard, then things could be a little different.

Another thing to do would be to use VoiceOver in Keyboard Help mode.  Press 
your VO keys along with the “k” key and VO will announce “Starting Keyboard 
Help”.  Now, when you press the various keys on the keyboard, VoiceOver will 
announce what the key is and if you press ctrl-option along with a specific 
key, then VO will announce the function of that combination.  Press the Escape 
key to exit Keyboard Help mode.

Lastly, the Web-Router is like a web related Item Chooser.  That is, pressing 
VO-u, brings up the Web-Router, then you can navigate left or right to get 
lists of Links, Visited Links, Fields and so on all related to the web page you 
are on.

HTH.

Later…

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jan 13, 2014, at 4:17 AM, April Brown  wrote:

> Hi Shawn,
> 
>  Thanks.  I do have Skype.   I am going to try a couple of different 
> things over this week, and thankfully a few people have offered to help.  If 
> this doesn't work, maybe I need the program checked.
> 
> On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:46:44 PM UTC-5, Shawn AKA BBS wrote:
> Hi April. I may be of some help. I have two options for you because you 
> say you want one-on-one training. If you have Skype, you can add me to 
> Skype and I'll be happy to teach you the basics to Voiceover. I have a 
> friend on here that I've taught how to use the Mac and it helped her 
> greatly. The other option is a website but it's not the cheapest 
> option. You can go to www.blindaccesstraining.com and request for 
> one-on-one training there. I hope you'll take into consideration all 
> the options I've told you. 
> 
> -- 
> Shawn 
> Sent From My White MacBook 
> 
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Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver

2014-01-13 Thread Phil Halton

That only means that you're pressing a wrong key combination.  You have to 
listen, learn (trial and error sometimes), and think about what you're doing. 
And, stay calm and focused at the same time - the tutorial is as simple as it 
gets, so if you quit that your chances for success are going to be hampered 
quite a bit.
So, when VO beeps at you, ask yourself what you're trying to do and what you 
might be doing wrong, Remember and use your basic VO navigation keystrokes   to 
get around the screen, and get ready to  have a success or two - building 
confidence in your ability to work this thing. Everyone else here has done it 
and we're not geniuses, believe me!
. 
On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:15 AM, April Brown  wrote:

> Hi Phil,
>   Yes I have attempted to complete the tutorial three times.  I can't get 
> VoiceOver to work in it either.  It beeps at me.
> 
> On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:21:55 PM UTC-5, phil halton wrote:
> have you tried to learn VoiceOver basics by opening the VoiceOver help menu 
> and selecting the quick start tutorial? Once you've worked through that 
> tutorial you can read through the  getting started  guide? 
> Me thinks you're making it far more complicated than it is. Honestly, start 
> at the beginning, learn VO basics by taking the quick start tutorial, then 
> move on to reading systematically through the getting started guide which is 
> essentially a webpage in Safari that covers every aspect of VoiceOver - it's 
> really quite thorough and easy to read.
> 
> The best advice I ever got when I first started learning to use a mac was to 
> forget everything I thought I knew and just start at the beginning. Also, 
> take a deep breathe and keep things simple - it's not so hard if people like 
> me and others here can master it, then so can you.
> 
> 
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 3:58 PM, April Brown  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Regina,
>> 
>>   I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail.  However, when 
>> I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, the 
>> screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a good 
>> way to relax for twenty minutes.  While learning something new I will need 
>> full time before long.
>> 
>>   I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all the 
>> corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to guess 
>> how the rest goes together
>> 
>> I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands.  And they 
>> are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably 
>> useless to me without a definition  sheet.  How can I guess what the command 
>> is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to me?
>> 
>> I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye.
>> 
>> Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow.  Another way, perhaps.
>> 
>> On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote:
>> April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to 
>> close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe 
>> Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the 
>> layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time 
>> Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. 
>> I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should 
>> focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email 
>> until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the 
>> machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't 
>> try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable 
>> with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the 
>> same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have 
>> had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have 
>> a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until 
>> cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from 
>> iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do 
>> this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows 
>> so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this!
>> 
>> 
>> reggie and Allegra
>> 
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully.   I still have 
>> some vision, some days.  I now have a headache.  Thanks to Ray Foret, I can 
>> now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it 
>> without clicking where I need it to go.  I have to learn to learn this 
>> before I am completely blind.  Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, 
>> and use a Braille display instead.  However, I will likely retain some 
>> hearing at least another five to ten years.  I still don't under stand half 
>>

Re: How to use emacs on mac

The biggest snag with vi is realizing if you are in 'edit' or 'command' 
mode. By default you are in command mode until you hit an I for Insert. 
Then it works like any other editor. I've ruined many documents when I 
thought I was typing in text only to realize I'd just executed a couple 
dozen commands. Nice thing is I could always hit escape to go back into 
command mode and then :q! (colon Q bang) to quit without saving. Once 
you do :wq (colon write quit) your changes are committed.


CB

On 1/12/14 9:02 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse wrote:

the last time i needed VI was when i installed boom on the mac mini
and had too manually delete all of its files, i found out at that time
that vi was not too be had from my recovery disk, so rm too the rescue
;d
That, is a another story intirely though:)



Sandi


On 1/11/14, Teresa Cochran  wrote:

Oh, my, I had a horrible time with VI, because I didn’t RTFM, of course, and
I couldn’t get out of it. More and more control characters kept appearing
from my attempts to press escape and control-q, and then when I found that
exiting was an obscure command like ZZ or something really disjointed, I
complained to a programmer friend of mine. He said it was all completely
logical. Now I know how some people feel when they learn Braille! :) anyway,
Emacs is only slightly less intuitive to my way of thinking, but I took the
time to RTFM before I used it. :)

Ok, I’ll bite, RTFM is Read the Frigging Manual. :)

Teresa

Slow down; you'll get there faster.

On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
wrote:


hi Teresa, no problem, usually when i need that kinda editor, i would
use a proper one, "vi" but that is just me , hides under a very solid
table, that is all religion though.
Best


Sandi


On 1/11/14, Devin Prater  wrote:

Going to the terminal and typing "emacs" should be sufficient.
Sent from my braille plus 18

Teresa Cochran  wrote:


hi, Sandi,

There might be some confusion here. Emacs is a desktop that you start
from
Terminal. Do you have this? i haven’t found it natively or on Macports
or
Homebrew, which you have to install. Can you tell me the steps you use
to
run it?

Thanks,
Teresa

"Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard
P.
Feynman

On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
wrote:


am not sure how one would install emacsspeak, but emacs seems too be
installed on my version of ml,

On 1/11/14, Teresa Cochran  wrote:

I may google this today. I so don’t want to install from source, as I
don’t
have enough knowledge of command line to do this yet. I also don’t
want
to
use VO with emacs, because VO is a bit unpredictable when you get
outside of
the shell.

Teresa

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
it's
too
dark to read."--Groucho Marx

On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:


Yes, I've also wanted to use emacs with emacspeak for a while now.
Sent from my braille plus 18

Kjsc Radio  wrote:



Hi all, just a simple question, do you know how I could compile
emacs
to
work in the terminal? And how would i get it working? Thanks all.
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Moving through tabs and Closing them in Mavericks Safari

Command-W closes the tab you are currently interacting with. If it is 
the last tab then it closes the window. Never had command-W bring up 
mission control. I don't use that so maybe I haven't turned on something 
that is triggered by command-w, but that key combo has been around for 
years on multiple platforms (control-W on Windows) so I doubt they would 
mess with reassigning it to do something else.


CB

On 1/12/14 8:59 PM, Daniel Hawkins wrote:

I am not sure what is the best method. But here is what I do.

Assuming you are in the HTML area. Now deinteract that, which I use 
Quicknav, by pressing left and down arrow at the same time. Now hit 
left arrow untill you get to the disired tab. Select it. now cmd w to 
close. or if you select it just go right and reinteract the HTML area

Daniel Hawkins
- Posted from my Macbook Pro

2012 15in. Macbook Pro
2.3 Quad-core i7
4GB DDR3
500GB HDD

Dual Boot:
Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit

On Jan 12, 2014, at 7:47 PM, Lee Jones > wrote:


Dear List, how do you cycle through tabs in mavericks safari and 
close them.  In the menus it says command w same as closing a window, 
but how does it know whether you want the windows closing or the tab 
within the window closing? Command W always brings up mission control 
for me.

Many Thanks, Lee

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Re: Moving through tabs and Closing them in Mavericks Safari

This is a link on a page you are auctioning or a link you are typing 
into the URL bar? If you always want to open a link in a new tab that 
can be set in preferences under Tabs and set "Open pages in tabs instead 
of windows" to Always. If you are in the URL bar you can type in or 
paste the URL you want to load and hit command-enter instead of just 
Enter to load that URL into a new tab. Likewise, if you are actioning a 
link in a page, hit command-enter instead of just enter to open it in a 
new tab.


CB

On 1/13/14 7:15 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera wrote:

i just want to add in here, how to open a link in a new tab?
On 13 Jan 2014, at 02:59 am, Daniel Hawkins 
mailto:computersassocia...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:



I am not sure what is the best method. But here is what I do.

Assuming you are in the HTML area. Now deinteract that, which I use 
Quicknav, by pressing left and down arrow at the same time. Now hit 
left arrow untill you get to the disired tab. Select it. now cmd w to 
close. or if you select it just go right and reinteract the HTML area

Daniel Hawkins
- Posted from my Macbook Pro

2012 15in. Macbook Pro
2.3 Quad-core i7
4GB DDR3
500GB HDD

Dual Boot:
Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit

On Jan 12, 2014, at 7:47 PM, Lee Jones > wrote:


Dear List, how do you cycle through tabs in mavericks safari and 
close them.  In the menus it says command w same as closing a 
window, but how does it know whether you want the windows closing or 
the tab within the window closing?  Command W always brings up 
mission control for me.

Many Thanks, Lee

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Re: Repairing Macbook AIr or recovering its data

Sounds like it is possible to remove the SSD. iFixit has instructions
for both the 11" and 13" models:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+11-Inch+Mid+2012+Solid-State+Drive+Replacement/12351

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Mid+2012+Solid-State+Drive+Replacement/10961

Those guides are under the assumption you want to pull out the old SSD
to upgrade it. In this case you want to pull it out to try and recover
the contents. If you're daring enough to go this far then you'll need to
mount the drive in an enclosure to hook it back up to another machine
and find out what's on there still. OWC sells an external MacBook SSD
drive enclosure for about $50:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MAU3ENVOY/

So you could get one of those, install the questionable SSD drive in
there and then connect it via USB to another Mac and hope for the best.

On 1/13/14 3:12 AM, Vic wrote:

This is a mid-2012 model.

On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:45:30 PM UTC-8, Vic wrote:

Hello all.
One of the most ordinary situations but the one I need your help
with (especially if you live in California).
My wife spilled some coffee on her Macbook Air and, naturally, the
machine stopped working.
At first, the machine wouldn't boot up, but after a day or so it
eventually did. However, now we are getting three long
(repetitive) beeps, blank screen and no further activity. In
reading various forums (those on ifix.com as
well), we discovered that the hardware problem could be anything
from a thermal paste that needs to be reapplied to possible
problems with RAM module. In any case, it's a hardware issue, most
likely.
unfortunately, her machine was not hooked to a Time Capsule, a
mistake we now realized, but it's too late to worry about it now.
We went to a local Apple store but they told us that the national
repair store will be replacing the whole board, most likely, and
will not be taking care of our data.

So, questions:
- does anybody know a place where I could send the machine to be
inspected first? Perhaps there is an easy fix and no need for the
board replacement.
- If we do have to go the data recovery route, has anyone done
that and how reliable such a process is? Will they actually
recover your whole OS or just certain files?

Thanks for any ideas, pointers and suggestions.
Best,
Vic

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Re: FAntastical on the mac

I didn't have much luck with Fantastical for Mac either. It seemed to work okay 
for adding events, but not for reading them back.
Cheers,
Nic

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Re: PDF Pen

Hi Eugenia,

This is great news. Do you know in what version of PDFPen these improvements 
have been added? Have you tried it out yourself yet? And do they offer a trial 
version do you know?

Cheers,
Nic
On 9 Jan 2014, at 12:56 pm, Eugenia Firth  wrote:

> Hi guys 
> Below is information I received from the developers of PDF Pen. It's very 
> good. We can't use the program for everything that it will do, but it's a 
> definite improvement from before. 
> 
> Greg Scown
> JAN 08, 2014  |  01:45PM PST
> Hi Eugenia,
> 
> We did do past work to make fields accessible. I'm sure that works better 
> with forms designed for accessibility in the sense that such forms have 
> sensible field names rather than "field_00835" or something helpful like 
> that. I do not know if the work we did will be sufficient to meet all of your 
> needs, and we do welcome any feedback on that.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Resetting Prams

I have issues with Mavericks, but sluggishness isn't one of them. Launching 
apps, switching apps, opening emails and playing audio and video files all work 
very snappily for me. I'm using a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB RAM and a 1.7GHz i5 
processor.

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Re: Useing The Calendar With Mavericks

Just to summarise, as it seems many people get needlessly confused by Apple's 
Calendar, there is more than one way to add an event in Calendar. The easiest 
by far, I believe, is the quick add feature that Anne mentioned.
Just press Command-N to add a new event. You can do this from anywhere within 
the app. This brings up a dialog with a message saying "Create quick event" and 
a text edit area. The text edit area will contain the example, "Movie at 7pm on 
Friday", or something like that. Just navigate to this and then you can type, 
and what you type will replace this example sentence. Calendar creates an event 
with all the necessary details which it interprets from your text. So for 
example if you write, "Lunch with Tim Cook Thursday 30 Jan 2–4", Calendar will 
create an event with the title "Lunch with Tim Cook", scheduled for Thursday 
January 30th, starting at 14:00 and ending at 16:00. You don't need to stick to 
any particular formula when you write the event, just write it in natural 
language and it's pretty clever about working out what you mean. It's really 
very quick and simple.
All the best,
Nic

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Re: Today's Plan

Hi Donna,

   I'm going to do my best to politely disagree with you.  The training 
program is fine for a review for people who have used VoiceOver, and 
perhaps other screen readers successfully.. 

However, for someone who never has been successful at using a 
screen reader, it is totally unclear.  The only clear step - is how to turn 
it on and off.  

Most people trying to learn it would have far less computer knowledge than 
either me or my husband, are not young, can't read the developer's mind, 
and are still partially sighted, or only recently lost their vision.  The 
training program is not geared for those people - exactly the people trying 
to use it.

I have asked specifically to a link to a specific web site with step by 
step directions.  Although, others responded offering to help off list, the 
first person reminded me that I am too stupid to live, and no one has the 
time to write a step by step guide.

I should say thank you to that person for reminding me what I heard many 
times a day for the first twenty years of my life. 

I am too stupid to live if I can't read the developer's mind, and need a 
actual training manual to learn something new.

I have asked, at least three times what three specific terms meant, hoping 
I could figure it out if I cold figure out those terms.  One person defined 
one of them today.  And a search on the Internet does not reveal 
definitions related to computers, or VoiceOver.

I think I'm wasting my time trying to learn a program without a training 
manual.  

How many thousands of people have given up before this point, because there 
is no manual?  

How many people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs because they are 
not a mind reader?

I need to be spending the last few weeks with my remaining vision writing 
and learning Braille.

This will be my last computer.  I'm too old too keep up with the lingo.

Since I am just a pest trying to ask questions to learn how to use this, I 
won't ask anymore.

On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:05:57 AM UTC-5, Donna wrote:
>
> April,
>
> Just a few comments that I hope will be helpful.
>
> First, it seems like you've turned this thing into a dragon.  It really 
> isn't it's just a piece of software.  Treat it that way.  You're not 
> climbing a mountain.  Many of us, myself included found the Mac very 
> frustrating at the beginning.  for me, that lasted about three months, and 
> then suddenly everything just clicked..  I don't think this is due to any 
> inherent problems on the Mac, but rather that it was a new system and new 
> screen-reader.  I'm pretty sure I was equally frustrated with JAWS and 
> Windows, but that was so long ago now that I've forgotten how frustrated I 
> was.  So take it easy, and take it in very small chunks.
>
> Second, don't rely too much on your husband.  I'm not sure it's always 
> intuitive to sighted person how someone who is blind or low-vision uses a 
> computer, so his take/experience with Voiceover may not be the best 
> measuring stick.  this may apply to you as well.  You've mentioned that 
> you're losing both your hearing and your vision.  That is going to require 
> that you figure out new ways of interacting with things, which is 
> inevitably going to be quite frustrating at times.  So while you may have a 
> lot of computer knowledge, I suspect that you are doing more than just 
> learning to use a Mac, you're relearning how to use a computer.
>
> Regarding the terms you say overwhelm you, if you can figure out physics 
> terms, then you know that every discipline, and even subdisciplines, have 
> their specific terminology.  If you don't know what a hot-spot is, either 
> google it, or ask one of us.  We'd be happy to tell you.  Asking questions 
> and then getting answers is a much better use of this list then just 
> venting your frustrations, though of course many of us have had occasion to 
> do that as well. :)
>
> As for dictation, I hate to shoot down your husband's theory, but it isn't 
> context-based.  So it works the same way, whether your using Facebook or 
> Pages.  It cares less about the inflection in your voice than it does the 
> clarity of your speech.  One key difference that I can see between social 
> media and a pages document is that the latter is usually much longer.  So 
> I'm wondering if the chunks you are dictating in your social media posts 
> are simply shorter, and thus you're having better luck.
>
> Just some thoughts, hope they're helpful.
> Good luck today,
> Donna
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:47 AM, April Brown > 
> wrote:
>
> I get to spend the afternoon doing one of my favorite things (and yes, 
> this is honest, not sarcastic): Re-formatting a computer for one of hubby's 
> co-workers.
>
> While in that room - Hubby and I will try the VoiceOver trainer on his 
> Mac, and see if he has any luck figuring it out.
>
> Most people say that if between his computer knowledge, and mine, it cant 
> be figured out, it either can't

Re: How to use emacs on mac

2014-01-13 Thread Teresa Cochran

I haven’t been able to use Emacspeak, but Emacs by itself and Voiceover work 
reasonably well together, at least as far as I’ve been able to tell using basic 
functions.

Teresa

On the other hand, there are different fingers.

On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:41 AM, Sean Murphy  wrote:

> Hi all.
> 
> How do you get Emacspeak to work on Emacs for the Mac?
> On 13/01/2014, at 1:02 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse  wrote:
> 
>> the last time i needed VI was when i installed boom on the mac mini
>> and had too manually delete all of its files, i found out at that time
>> that vi was not too be had from my recovery disk, so rm too the rescue
>> ;d
>> That, is a another story intirely though:)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sandi
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/11/14, Teresa Cochran  wrote:
>>> Oh, my, I had a horrible time with VI, because I didn’t RTFM, of course, and
>>> I couldn’t get out of it. More and more control characters kept appearing
>>> from my attempts to press escape and control-q, and then when I found that
>>> exiting was an obscure command like ZZ or something really disjointed, I
>>> complained to a programmer friend of mine. He said it was all completely
>>> logical. Now I know how some people feel when they learn Braille! :) anyway,
>>> Emacs is only slightly less intuitive to my way of thinking, but I took the
>>> time to RTFM before I used it. :)
>>> 
>>> Ok, I’ll bite, RTFM is Read the Frigging Manual. :)
>>> 
>>> Teresa
>>> 
>>> Slow down; you'll get there faster.
>>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 hi Teresa, no problem, usually when i need that kinda editor, i would
 use a proper one, "vi" but that is just me , hides under a very solid
 table, that is all religion though.
 Best
 
 
 Sandi
 
 
 On 1/11/14, Devin Prater  wrote:
> Going to the terminal and typing "emacs" should be sufficient.
> Sent from my braille plus 18
> 
> Teresa Cochran  wrote:
> 
>> hi, Sandi,
>> 
>> There might be some confusion here. Emacs is a desktop that you start
>> from
>> Terminal. Do you have this? i haven’t found it natively or on Macports
>> or
>> Homebrew, which you have to install. Can you tell me the steps you use
>> to
>> run it?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Teresa
>> 
>> "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard
>> P.
>> Feynman
>> 
>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> am not sure how one would install emacsspeak, but emacs seems too be
>>> installed on my version of ml,
>>> 
>>> On 1/11/14, Teresa Cochran  wrote:
 I may google this today. I so don’t want to install from source, as I
 don’t
 have enough knowledge of command line to do this yet. I also don’t
 want
 to
 use VO with emacs, because VO is a bit unpredictable when you get
 outside of
 the shell.
 
 Teresa
 
 "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
 it's
 too
 dark to read."--Groucho Marx
 
 On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
 
> Yes, I've also wanted to use emacs with emacspeak for a while now.
> Sent from my braille plus 18
> 
> Kjsc Radio  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi all, just a simple question, do you know how I could compile
>> emacs
>> to
>> work in the terminal? And how would i get it working? Thanks all.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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>> send
>> an
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Re: Today's Plan

2014-01-13 Thread Anne Robertson

Hello April,

Looking back over your posts, I see that you said you had to relabel your 
bumblebee keyboard. What kind of keyboard is this? It could well be that all 
your confusion stems from not having an Apple keyboard.

VoiceOver is not really a program as such, it’s a method of interacting with 
the Operating System, so turning it off is like turning the screen off.

When using VoiceOver, you need to treat the Control and Option keys as though 
they were pedals on a piano. You hold them down before pressing other keys.

If you have problems holding down so many keys at once, there is a setting in 
System Preferences where you can turn on Sticky Keys which allows you to press 
one key at a time.

Cheers,

Anne


On 13 Jan 2014, at 18:06, April Brown  wrote:

> Hi Donna,
>  
>I'm going to do my best to politely disagree with you.  The training 
> program is fine for a review for people who have used VoiceOver, and perhaps 
> other screen readers successfully.. 
> 
> However, for someone who never has been successful at using a screen 
> reader, it is totally unclear.  The only clear step - is how to turn it on 
> and off.  
> 
> Most people trying to learn it would have far less computer knowledge than 
> either me or my husband, are not young, can't read the developer's mind, and 
> are still partially sighted, or only recently lost their vision.  The 
> training program is not geared for those people - exactly the people trying 
> to use it.
> 
> I have asked specifically to a link to a specific web site with step by step 
> directions.  Although, others responded offering to help off list, the first 
> person reminded me that I am too stupid to live, and no one has the time to 
> write a step by step guide.
> 
> I should say thank you to that person for reminding me what I heard many 
> times a day for the first twenty years of my life. 
> 
> I am too stupid to live if I can't read the developer's mind, and need a 
> actual training manual to learn something new.
> 
> I have asked, at least three times what three specific terms meant, hoping I 
> could figure it out if I cold figure out those terms.  One person defined one 
> of them today.  And a search on the Internet does not reveal definitions 
> related to computers, or VoiceOver.
> 
> I think I'm wasting my time trying to learn a program without a training 
> manual.  
> 
> How many thousands of people have given up before this point, because there 
> is no manual?  
> 
> How many people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs because they are 
> not a mind reader?
> 
> I need to be spending the last few weeks with my remaining vision writing and 
> learning Braille.
> 
> This will be my last computer.  I'm too old too keep up with the lingo.
> 
> Since I am just a pest trying to ask questions to learn how to use this, I 
> won't ask anymore.
> 
> On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:05:57 AM UTC-5, Donna wrote:
> April,
> 
> Just a few comments that I hope will be helpful.
> 
> First, it seems like you've turned this thing into a dragon.  It really isn't 
> it's just a piece of software.  Treat it that way.  You're not climbing a 
> mountain.  Many of us, myself included found the Mac very frustrating at the 
> beginning.  for me, that lasted about three months, and then suddenly 
> everything just clicked..  I don't think this is due to any inherent problems 
> on the Mac, but rather that it was a new system and new screen-reader.  I'm 
> pretty sure I was equally frustrated with JAWS and Windows, but that was so 
> long ago now that I've forgotten how frustrated I was.  So take it easy, and 
> take it in very small chunks.
> 
> Second, don't rely too much on your husband.  I'm not sure it's always 
> intuitive to sighted person how someone who is blind or low-vision uses a 
> computer, so his take/experience with Voiceover may not be the best measuring 
> stick.  this may apply to you as well.  You've mentioned that you're losing 
> both your hearing and your vision.  That is going to require that you figure 
> out new ways of interacting with things, which is inevitably going to be 
> quite frustrating at times.  So while you may have a lot of computer 
> knowledge, I suspect that you are doing more than just learning to use a Mac, 
> you're relearning how to use a computer.
> 
> Regarding the terms you say overwhelm you, if you can figure out physics 
> terms, then you know that every discipline, and even subdisciplines, have 
> their specific terminology.  If you don't know what a hot-spot is, either 
> google it, or ask one of us.  We'd be happy to tell you.  Asking questions 
> and then getting answers is a much better use of this list then just venting 
> your frustrations, though of course many of us have had occasion to do that 
> as well. :)
> 
> As for dictation, I hate to shoot down your husband's theory, but it isn't 
> context-based.  So it works the same way, whether your using Facebook or 
> Pages.  It cares less a

Time Machine and Clean Install (was Resetting Prams)

2014-01-13 Thread Alex Hall

I really hoped you wouldn't say that, as it points to my install being bad. 
I've reset the SMC and PRAM, repaired permissions in Mavericks and in Recover 
Mode, and have 8gb of ram which used to work more than fine. Is there anything 
else at all i can try that isn't a clean install? Related: if I do a clean 
install, and I have a Time Machine backup made just before that install, can I 
restore all my apps, including settings, through Time Machine? I know some 
preferences will be lost, and I know I can get my documents and other files 
back easily enough, but what about things like mail accounts, Twitter logins, 
or my Mac's Keychain? Can any of that be recovered?
On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:14 AM, Nicholas Parsons  
wrote:

> I have issues with Mavericks, but sluggishness isn't one of them. Launching 
> apps, switching apps, opening emails and playing audio and video files all 
> work very snappily for me. I'm using a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB RAM and a 
> 1.7GHz i5 processor.
> 
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Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
mehg...@gmail.com

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Re: Time Machine and Clean Install (was Resetting Prams)

2014-01-13 Thread David Taylor

If you do a time machine restore, you are likely to also restore whatever is 
causing your problems. If you possible can, do a clean install and take the 
time it take to set things back up again from scratch, provided you know how to 
get your data from Time Machine without doing a restore. I think our issues 
might be similar. Apparently all my hardware is fine and my SSD is fine, but 
the system won’t boot from that drive. This started happening from time to time 
when I upgraded to Mavericks.

Cheers
Dave

On 13 Jan 2014, at 06:31 pm, Alex Hall  wrote:

> I really hoped you wouldn't say that, as it points to my install being bad. 
> I've reset the SMC and PRAM, repaired permissions in Mavericks and in Recover 
> Mode, and have 8gb of ram which used to work more than fine. Is there 
> anything else at all i can try that isn't a clean install? Related: if I do a 
> clean install, and I have a Time Machine backup made just before that 
> install, can I restore all my apps, including settings, through Time Machine? 
> I know some preferences will be lost, and I know I can get my documents and 
> other files back easily enough, but what about things like mail accounts, 
> Twitter logins, or my Mac's Keychain? Can any of that be recovered?
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:14 AM, Nicholas Parsons  
> wrote:
> 
>> I have issues with Mavericks, but sluggishness isn't one of them. Launching 
>> apps, switching apps, opening emails and playing audio and video files all 
>> work very snappily for me. I'm using a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB RAM and a 
>> 1.7GHz i5 processor.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> 
> 
> Have a great day,
> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
> mehg...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Today's Plan

2014-01-13 Thread Phil Halton

If I may say, the Quickstart tutorial is for people who have never even touched 
a Mac
Before. It's not a review for experts.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello April,
> 
> Looking back over your posts, I see that you said you had to relabel your 
> bumblebee keyboard. What kind of keyboard is this? It could well be that all 
> your confusion stems from not having an Apple keyboard.
> 
> VoiceOver is not really a program as such, it’s a method of interacting with 
> the Operating System, so turning it off is like turning the screen off.
> 
> When using VoiceOver, you need to treat the Control and Option keys as though 
> they were pedals on a piano. You hold them down before pressing other keys.
> 
> If you have problems holding down so many keys at once, there is a setting in 
> System Preferences where you can turn on Sticky Keys which allows you to 
> press one key at a time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 18:06, April Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>>  
>>I'm going to do my best to politely disagree with you.  The training 
>> program is fine for a review for people who have used VoiceOver, and perhaps 
>> other screen readers successfully.. 
>> 
>> However, for someone who never has been successful at using a screen 
>> reader, it is totally unclear.  The only clear step - is how to turn it on 
>> and off.  
>> 
>> Most people trying to learn it would have far less computer knowledge than 
>> either me or my husband, are not young, can't read the developer's mind, and 
>> are still partially sighted, or only recently lost their vision.  The 
>> training program is not geared for those people - exactly the people trying 
>> to use it.
>> 
>> I have asked specifically to a link to a specific web site with step by step 
>> directions.  Although, others responded offering to help off list, the first 
>> person reminded me that I am too stupid to live, and no one has the time to 
>> write a step by step guide.
>> 
>> I should say thank you to that person for reminding me what I heard many 
>> times a day for the first twenty years of my life. 
>> 
>> I am too stupid to live if I can't read the developer's mind, and need a 
>> actual training manual to learn something new.
>> 
>> I have asked, at least three times what three specific terms meant, hoping I 
>> could figure it out if I cold figure out those terms.  One person defined 
>> one of them today.  And a search on the Internet does not reveal definitions 
>> related to computers, or VoiceOver.
>> 
>> I think I'm wasting my time trying to learn a program without a training 
>> manual.  
>> 
>> How many thousands of people have given up before this point, because there 
>> is no manual?  
>> 
>> How many people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs because they are 
>> not a mind reader?
>> 
>> I need to be spending the last few weeks with my remaining vision writing 
>> and learning Braille.
>> 
>> This will be my last computer.  I'm too old too keep up with the lingo.
>> 
>> Since I am just a pest trying to ask questions to learn how to use this, I 
>> won't ask anymore.
>> 
>>> On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:05:57 AM UTC-5, Donna wrote:
>>> April,
>>> 
>>> Just a few comments that I hope will be helpful.
>>> 
>>> First, it seems like you've turned this thing into a dragon.  It really 
>>> isn't it's just a piece of software.  Treat it that way.  You're not 
>>> climbing a mountain.  Many of us, myself included found the Mac very 
>>> frustrating at the beginning.  for me, that lasted about three months, and 
>>> then suddenly everything just clicked..  I don't think this is due to any 
>>> inherent problems on the Mac, but rather that it was a new system and new 
>>> screen-reader.  I'm pretty sure I was equally frustrated with JAWS and 
>>> Windows, but that was so long ago now that I've forgotten how frustrated I 
>>> was.  So take it easy, and take it in very small chunks.
>>> 
>>> Second, don't rely too much on your husband.  I'm not sure it's always 
>>> intuitive to sighted person how someone who is blind or low-vision uses a 
>>> computer, so his take/experience with Voiceover may not be the best 
>>> measuring stick.  this may apply to you as well.  You've mentioned that 
>>> you're losing both your hearing and your vision.  That is going to require 
>>> that you figure out new ways of interacting with things, which is 
>>> inevitably going to be quite frustrating at times.  So while you may have a 
>>> lot of computer knowledge, I suspect that you are doing more than just 
>>> learning to use a Mac, you're relearning how to use a computer.
>>> 
>>> Regarding the terms you say overwhelm you, if you can figure out physics 
>>> terms, then you know that every discipline, and even subdisciplines, have 
>>> their specific terminology.  If you don't know what a hot-spot is, either 
>>> google it, or ask one of us.  We'd be happy to tell you.  Asking quest

Re: Today's Plan

2014-01-13 Thread Gary

I’m not sure if you have gone through the VoiceOver Tutorial on the Mac?  This 
helped me get started the first time I got on a Mac,.  With VoiceOver on, while 
holding down  Ctrl+Opt+Cmd, press F8 to start the tutorial.  Then just listen 
and do what the voice tell you to do.  Press Esc to leave the tutorial.
Hope this helps.
Gary

On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:47 AM, April Brown  wrote:

> I get to spend the afternoon doing one of my favorite things (and yes, this 
> is honest, not sarcastic): Re-formatting a computer for one of hubby's 
> co-workers.
> 
> While in that room - Hubby and I will try the VoiceOver trainer on his Mac, 
> and see if he has any luck figuring it out.
> 
> Most people say that if between his computer knowledge, and mine, it cant be 
> figured out, it either can't be important, or it isn't easy.
> 
> I can figure out earthquake, volcano, and even some physics terms relatively 
> easy.  And yet, these term that I cannot find defined anywhere on the net 
> that are used in the VoiceOver training are OverWhelming.
> 
> Regina, I did see that link to Sarai's post, and have read all the pages on 
> that site, even before my first post on here.
> 
> Oh, and hubby thinks he knows why I can use Dictation in social media, and 
> not Pages to tell a story.  In social media, I rarely use inflection.  
> However, I am a storyteller, so in novel writing, I have all kinds of 
> inflection and excitement.  I don't talk in a monotone while recording a 
> story.  Makes sense.
> 
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Re: Moving through tabs and Closing them in Mavericks Safari

2014-01-13 Thread Dionipher Presas Herrera

i already do that, the only thing i can do is pressing the ctrl option cmd and 
press space bar then going to menu then pressing open in link in a new tab. is 
there a any shortcut for this?
On 13 Jan 2014, at 04:43 pm, Chris Blouch  wrote:

> This is a link on a page you are auctioning or a link you are typing into the 
> URL bar? If you always want to open a link in a new tab that can be set in 
> preferences under Tabs and set "Open pages in tabs instead of windows" to 
> Always. If you are in the URL bar you can type in or paste the URL you want 
> to load and hit command-enter instead of just Enter to load that URL into a 
> new tab. Likewise, if you are actioning a link in a page, hit command-enter 
> instead of just enter to open it in a new tab.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 1/13/14 7:15 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera wrote:
>> i just want to add in here, how to open a link in a new tab?
>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 02:59 am, Daniel Hawkins  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am not sure what is the best method. But here is what I do.
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are in the HTML area. Now deinteract that, which I use 
>>> Quicknav, by pressing left and down arrow at the same time. Now hit left 
>>> arrow untill you get to the disired tab. Select it. now cmd w to close. or 
>>> if you select it just go right and reinteract the HTML area
>>> Daniel Hawkins
>>> - Posted from my Macbook Pro
>>> 
>>> 2012 15in. Macbook Pro
>>> 2.3 Quad-core i7
>>> 4GB DDR3
>>> 500GB HDD
>>> 
>>> Dual Boot:
>>> Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit
>>> 
>>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 7:47 PM, Lee Jones  wrote:
>>> 
 Dear List, how do you cycle through tabs in mavericks safari and close 
 them.  In the menus it says command w same as closing a window, but how 
 does it know whether you want the windows closing or the tab within the 
 window closing?  Command W always brings up mission control for me.
  
 Many Thanks, Lee   
 
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Re: Today's Plan

April, if you're still with us, I think I know why your computer beeps 
or bonks whenever you try to do a Voiceover command. There's a setting 
in the system preferences under the keyboard section that you should 
check out. In that keyboard section, you should see something that says 
use all F1, F2, etc. as function keys. If you check that box, Voiceover 
should behave like normal.


--
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Sent From My White MacBook

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Re: Today's Plan

2014-01-13 Thread Teresa Cochran

Yes, I remember using the quick-start tutorial about twenty minutes after 
taking my Mac Mini out of the box. Once I went through it, the registration 
form for my Mac was a breeze. As I recall, I then panicked because I couldn’t 
remember the keystroke to get into menus, and my husband had to look it up for 
me. LOL I think the tutorial doesn’t cover menus, which is VO-m or control-f2.

Teresa

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too 
dark to read."--Groucho Marx

On Jan 13, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:

> If I may say, the Quickstart tutorial is for people who have never even 
> touched a Mac
> Before. It's not a review for experts.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
>> Hello April,
>> 
>> Looking back over your posts, I see that you said you had to relabel your 
>> bumblebee keyboard. What kind of keyboard is this? It could well be that all 
>> your confusion stems from not having an Apple keyboard.
>> 
>> VoiceOver is not really a program as such, it’s a method of interacting with 
>> the Operating System, so turning it off is like turning the screen off.
>> 
>> When using VoiceOver, you need to treat the Control and Option keys as 
>> though they were pedals on a piano. You hold them down before pressing other 
>> keys.
>> 
>> If you have problems holding down so many keys at once, there is a setting 
>> in System Preferences where you can turn on Sticky Keys which allows you to 
>> press one key at a time.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 18:06, April Brown  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>>  
>>>I'm going to do my best to politely disagree with you.  The training 
>>> program is fine for a review for people who have used VoiceOver, and 
>>> perhaps other screen readers successfully.. 
>>> 
>>> However, for someone who never has been successful at using a 
>>> screen reader, it is totally unclear.  The only clear step - is how to turn 
>>> it on and off.  
>>> 
>>> Most people trying to learn it would have far less computer knowledge than 
>>> either me or my husband, are not young, can't read the developer's mind, 
>>> and are still partially sighted, or only recently lost their vision.  The 
>>> training program is not geared for those people - exactly the people trying 
>>> to use it.
>>> 
>>> I have asked specifically to a link to a specific web site with step by 
>>> step directions.  Although, others responded offering to help off list, the 
>>> first person reminded me that I am too stupid to live, and no one has the 
>>> time to write a step by step guide.
>>> 
>>> I should say thank you to that person for reminding me what I heard many 
>>> times a day for the first twenty years of my life. 
>>> 
>>> I am too stupid to live if I can't read the developer's mind, and need a 
>>> actual training manual to learn something new.
>>> 
>>> I have asked, at least three times what three specific terms meant, hoping 
>>> I could figure it out if I cold figure out those terms.  One person defined 
>>> one of them today.  And a search on the Internet does not reveal 
>>> definitions related to computers, or VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> I think I'm wasting my time trying to learn a program without a training 
>>> manual.  
>>> 
>>> How many thousands of people have given up before this point, because there 
>>> is no manual?  
>>> 
>>> How many people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs because they are 
>>> not a mind reader?
>>> 
>>> I need to be spending the last few weeks with my remaining vision writing 
>>> and learning Braille.
>>> 
>>> This will be my last computer.  I'm too old too keep up with the lingo.
>>> 
>>> Since I am just a pest trying to ask questions to learn how to use this, I 
>>> won't ask anymore.
>>> 
>>> On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:05:57 AM UTC-5, Donna wrote:
>>> April,
>>> 
>>> Just a few comments that I hope will be helpful.
>>> 
>>> First, it seems like you've turned this thing into a dragon.  It really 
>>> isn't it's just a piece of software.  Treat it that way.  You're not 
>>> climbing a mountain.  Many of us, myself included found the Mac very 
>>> frustrating at the beginning.  for me, that lasted about three months, and 
>>> then suddenly everything just clicked..  I don't think this is due to any 
>>> inherent problems on the Mac, but rather that it was a new system and new 
>>> screen-reader.  I'm pretty sure I was equally frustrated with JAWS and 
>>> Windows, but that was so long ago now that I've forgotten how frustrated I 
>>> was.  So take it easy, and take it in very small chunks.
>>> 
>>> Second, don't rely too much on your husband.  I'm not sure it's always 
>>> intuitive to sighted person how someone who is blind or low-vision uses a 
>>> computer, so his take/experience with Voiceover may not be the best 
>>> measuring stick.  this may apply to you as well.  You've mentioned that 
>>> you're losing both your hearing and your v

Removing the topsites menu bar

2014-01-13 Thread Graham

Hi, 

 

Can anyone advise me on how to perminently get rid of the topsites bar from
Safari? 

 

I'm using Mountain Lion on a Macbook Pro 2010 vintage. 

 

Kind regards

 

Graham

 

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Re: Today's Plan

2014-01-13 Thread Tim Kilburn

Hi,

Actually, the tutorial does cover menus, and does do a reasonable job of 
explaining some basic functions of VO on the Mac.

Later…

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Teresa Cochran  wrote:

> Yes, I remember using the quick-start tutorial about twenty minutes after 
> taking my Mac Mini out of the box. Once I went through it, the registration 
> form for my Mac was a breeze. As I recall, I then panicked because I couldn’t 
> remember the keystroke to get into menus, and my husband had to look it up 
> for me. LOL I think the tutorial doesn’t cover menus, which is VO-m or 
> control-f2.
> 
> Teresa
> 
> "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too 
> dark to read."--Groucho Marx
> 
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
>> If I may say, the Quickstart tutorial is for people who have never even 
>> touched a Mac
>> Before. It's not a review for experts.
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello April,
>>> 
>>> Looking back over your posts, I see that you said you had to relabel your 
>>> bumblebee keyboard. What kind of keyboard is this? It could well be that 
>>> all your confusion stems from not having an Apple keyboard.
>>> 
>>> VoiceOver is not really a program as such, it’s a method of interacting 
>>> with the Operating System, so turning it off is like turning the screen off.
>>> 
>>> When using VoiceOver, you need to treat the Control and Option keys as 
>>> though they were pedals on a piano. You hold them down before pressing 
>>> other keys.
>>> 
>>> If you have problems holding down so many keys at once, there is a setting 
>>> in System Preferences where you can turn on Sticky Keys which allows you to 
>>> press one key at a time.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 18:06, April Brown  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Donna,

   I'm going to do my best to politely disagree with you.  The training 
 program is fine for a review for people who have used VoiceOver, and 
 perhaps other screen readers successfully.. 

However, for someone who never has been successful at using a 
 screen reader, it is totally unclear.  The only clear step - is how to 
 turn it on and off.  

 Most people trying to learn it would have far less computer knowledge than 
 either me or my husband, are not young, can't read the developer's mind, 
 and are still partially sighted, or only recently lost their vision.  The 
 training program is not geared for those people - exactly the people 
 trying to use it.

 I have asked specifically to a link to a specific web site with step by 
 step directions.  Although, others responded offering to help off list, 
 the first person reminded me that I am too stupid to live, and no one has 
 the time to write a step by step guide.

 I should say thank you to that person for reminding me what I heard many 
 times a day for the first twenty years of my life. 

 I am too stupid to live if I can't read the developer's mind, and need a 
 actual training manual to learn something new.

 I have asked, at least three times what three specific terms meant, hoping 
 I could figure it out if I cold figure out those terms.  One person 
 defined one of them today.  And a search on the Internet does not reveal 
 definitions related to computers, or VoiceOver.

 I think I'm wasting my time trying to learn a program without a training 
 manual.  

 How many thousands of people have given up before this point, because 
 there is no manual?  

 How many people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs because they 
 are not a mind reader?

 I need to be spending the last few weeks with my remaining vision writing 
 and learning Braille.

 This will be my last computer.  I'm too old too keep up with the lingo.

 Since I am just a pest trying to ask questions to learn how to use this, I 
 won't ask anymore.

 On Monday, January 13, 2014 8:05:57 AM UTC-5, Donna wrote:
 April,

 Just a few comments that I hope will be helpful.

 First, it seems like you've turned this thing into a dragon.  It really 
 isn't it's just a piece of software.  Treat it that way.  You're not 
 climbing a mountain.  Many of us, myself included found the Mac very 
 frustrating at the beginning.  for me, that lasted about three months, and 
 then suddenly everything just clicked..  I don't think this is due to any 
 inherent problems on the Mac, but rather that it was a new system and new 
 screen-reader.  I'm pretty sure I was equally frustrated with JAWS and 
 Windows, but that was so long ago now that I've forgotten how frustrated I 
 was.  So take it easy, and take it in very small chunks.

Re: Removing the topsites menu bar

2014-01-13 Thread Teresa Cochran

Hi, Graham,

Go to Safari Menu General Preferences and have new tabs and new windows open 
with either homepage or empty.

HtH,
Teresa

Slow down; you'll get there faster.

On Jan 13, 2014, at 12:28 PM, Graham  wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> Can anyone advise me on how to perminently get rid of the topsites bar from 
> Safari?
>  
> I'm using Mountain Lion on a Macbook Pro 2010 vintage.
>  
> Kind regards
>  
> Graham
>  
> 
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Re: Time Machine and Clean Install (was Resetting Prams)

2014-01-13 Thread Alex Hall

No, I don't want to restore everything. I just wondered if I could restore 
certain parts of the system, such as mail accounts or YoruFukurou preferences 
and logins. I can redo everything if I have to, but the more I can simply copy 
back in the better. Thanks.
On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:43 PM, David Taylor  wrote:

> If you do a time machine restore, you are likely to also restore whatever is 
> causing your problems. If you possible can, do a clean install and take the 
> time it take to set things back up again from scratch, provided you know how 
> to get your data from Time Machine without doing a restore. I think our 
> issues might be similar. Apparently all my hardware is fine and my SSD is 
> fine, but the system won’t boot from that drive. This started happening from 
> time to time when I upgraded to Mavericks.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> On 13 Jan 2014, at 06:31 pm, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
>> I really hoped you wouldn't say that, as it points to my install being bad. 
>> I've reset the SMC and PRAM, repaired permissions in Mavericks and in 
>> Recover Mode, and have 8gb of ram which used to work more than fine. Is 
>> there anything else at all i can try that isn't a clean install? Related: if 
>> I do a clean install, and I have a Time Machine backup made just before that 
>> install, can I restore all my apps, including settings, through Time 
>> Machine? I know some preferences will be lost, and I know I can get my 
>> documents and other files back easily enough, but what about things like 
>> mail accounts, Twitter logins, or my Mac's Keychain? Can any of that be 
>> recovered?
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:14 AM, Nicholas Parsons 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> I have issues with Mavericks, but sluggishness isn't one of them. Launching 
>>> apps, switching apps, opening emails and playing audio and video files all 
>>> work very snappily for me. I'm using a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB RAM and a 
>>> 1.7GHz i5 processor.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
>> mehg...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
mehg...@gmail.com



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Re: Time Machine and Clean Install (was Resetting Prams)

2014-01-13 Thread David Taylor

You are supposed to be able to copy things back in like that, but I can’t get 
it to work for me, so will be interested in what others say.

Cheers
Dave

On 13 Jan 2014, at 09:11 pm, Alex Hall  wrote:

> No, I don't want to restore everything. I just wondered if I could restore 
> certain parts of the system, such as mail accounts or YoruFukurou preferences 
> and logins. I can redo everything if I have to, but the more I can simply 
> copy back in the better. Thanks.
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 1:43 PM, David Taylor  wrote:
> 
>> If you do a time machine restore, you are likely to also restore whatever is 
>> causing your problems. If you possible can, do a clean install and take the 
>> time it take to set things back up again from scratch, provided you know how 
>> to get your data from Time Machine without doing a restore. I think our 
>> issues might be similar. Apparently all my hardware is fine and my SSD is 
>> fine, but the system won’t boot from that drive. This started happening from 
>> time to time when I upgraded to Mavericks.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>> 
>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 06:31 pm, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>>> I really hoped you wouldn't say that, as it points to my install being bad. 
>>> I've reset the SMC and PRAM, repaired permissions in Mavericks and in 
>>> Recover Mode, and have 8gb of ram which used to work more than fine. Is 
>>> there anything else at all i can try that isn't a clean install? Related: 
>>> if I do a clean install, and I have a Time Machine backup made just before 
>>> that install, can I restore all my apps, including settings, through Time 
>>> Machine? I know some preferences will be lost, and I know I can get my 
>>> documents and other files back easily enough, but what about things like 
>>> mail accounts, Twitter logins, or my Mac's Keychain? Can any of that be 
>>> recovered?
>>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:14 AM, Nicholas Parsons 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 I have issues with Mavericks, but sluggishness isn't one of them. 
 Launching apps, switching apps, opening emails and playing audio and video 
 files all work very snappily for me. I'm using a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB 
 RAM and a 1.7GHz i5 processor.
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
>>> mehg...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Have a great day,
> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
> mehg...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
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Voices, setting them?

2014-01-13 Thread regina alvarado

Help! I wish to change my voices on my Mini to Karen or Samantha. No matter how 
I check and then go through the steppers to set rate, etc. the voices will  not 
show up when I exit the VO menu. I set all  there steppers and looked for an 
OK, but none could be found. I thought just by checking the voice I wanted it 
would stop talking. Do I need to reboot? Can someone give me a quick tutorial 
about which voices do what? I think I am hearing the names correctly, but I am 
not sure what they all do. Thanks in advance for the help! Appreciate the help.
Reggie and Allegra

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Re: PDF Pen

2014-01-13 Thread Eugenia Firth

Hi there. 
I don't know about the version. I have the latest one, and I have it out on 
forms like the IRS form 1040 that has been altered to work with screen readers. 
It worked great when I did it. It does not work on forms that have not been 
altered to work with screen readers. I have not checked this out, but I wonder 
if a sighted person could use PDF Pen to alter a pdf form to be accessible. I'd 
love to test that theory out, but I'll a tester first. 

Yes, you can get a trial version if you go to the web site. The address is 
smilesoftware.com. I think there are a lot of things on there we can't do, but 
it's a definite improvement over what we have had before with pdf files. 

Regards, 
Gigi 

On Jan 11, 2014, at 11:49 PM, Nicholas Parsons  
wrote:

> Hi Eugenia,
> 
> This is great news. Do you know in what version of PDFPen these improvements 
> have been added? Have you tried it out yourself yet? And do they offer a 
> trial version do you know?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nic
> On 9 Jan 2014, at 12:56 pm, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
> 
>> Hi guys 
>> Below is information I received from the developers of PDF Pen. It's very 
>> good. We can't use the program for everything that it will do, but it's a 
>> definite improvement from before. 
>> 
>> Greg Scown
>> JAN 08, 2014  |  01:45PM PST
>> Hi Eugenia,
>> 
>> We did do past work to make fields accessible. I'm sure that works better 
>> with forms designed for accessibility in the sense that such forms have 
>> sensible field names rather than "field_00835" or something helpful like 
>> that. I do not know if the work we did will be sufficient to meet all of 
>> your needs, and we do welcome any feedback on that.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Voices, setting them?

2014-01-13 Thread Daniel Hawkins

Hmm. I have never gone thru the preference part. But there is a quick way to 
change voices or speed pitch and volume.

Find spacebar. Now press all three keys at the left of the spacebar which is, 
cmd, options, ctrl. Now with all three keys pressed, use your right or left 
arrow to cycle thru the options, when you get to the voices part, use the up or 
down to selecct a voice. Once done release all keys.
Daniel Hawkins
- Posted from my Macbook Pro

2012 15in. Macbook Pro
2.3 Quad-core i7
4GB DDR3
500GB HDD

Dual Boot:
Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit

On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:58 PM, regina alvarado  wrote:

> Help! I wish to change my voices on my Mini to Karen or Samantha. No matter 
> how I check and then go through the steppers to set rate, etc. the voices 
> will  not show up when I exit the VO menu. I set all  there steppers and 
> looked for an OK, but none could be found. I thought just by checking the 
> voice I wanted it would stop talking. Do I need to reboot? Can someone give 
> me a quick tutorial about which voices do what? I think I am hearing the 
> names correctly, but I am not sure what they all do. Thanks in advance for 
> the help! Appreciate the help.
> Reggie and Allegra
> 
> -- 
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Re: Resetting Prams

2014-01-13 Thread Sandi Jazmin Kruse

ah just one more reason for not upgrading. Alex i come too think about
something.
When i got my very first mba, it would get slow sometimes, and run
like really really hot, i found out that it had a bunch of processes
going that took all its power, of course the rest was easy from there.
And whats best, i got a faster mac! :)
my advice is, go through the processes logged in as root in bash with
ps, and see if it got anything weird going on.



Sandi


On 1/11/14, Nicholas Parsons  wrote:
> I have issues with Mavericks, but sluggishness isn't one of them. Launching
> apps, switching apps, opening emails and playing audio and video files all
> work very snappily for me. I'm using a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB RAM and a
> 1.7GHz i5 processor.
>
> --
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Re: Voices, setting them?

2014-01-13 Thread Traci Duncan

Are you wanting to change VoiceOver’s voice or the main computer voice?

There is the method on the fly that was described, otherwise….

VO-f8 for VoiceOver utility
command3 for speech category.
VO right-arrow 4 times, till you hear category.
VO down-arrow as you read the category list.  VO right-arrow to change the 
voices for each category. 
Default, is the voiceOver default voice.

I’m afraid I’m not very helpful for each category.  I have the default voice 
for everything except status.  I chose a different voice for status so it would 
stand out.

HTH,
Traci


On Jan 13, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Daniel Hawkins  
wrote:

> Hmm. I have never gone thru the preference part. But there is a quick way to 
> change voices or speed pitch and volume.
> 
> Find spacebar. Now press all three keys at the left of the spacebar which is, 
> cmd, options, ctrl. Now with all three keys pressed, use your right or left 
> arrow to cycle thru the options, when you get to the voices part, use the up 
> or down to selecct a voice. Once done release all keys.
> Daniel Hawkins
> - Posted from my Macbook Pro
> 
> 2012 15in. Macbook Pro
> 2.3 Quad-core i7
> 4GB DDR3
> 500GB HDD
> 
> Dual Boot:
> Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit
> 
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:58 PM, regina alvarado  
> wrote:
> 
>> Help! I wish to change my voices on my Mini to Karen or Samantha. No matter 
>> how I check and then go through the steppers to set rate, etc. the voices 
>> will  not show up when I exit the VO menu. I set all  there steppers and 
>> looked for an OK, but none could be found. I thought just by checking the 
>> voice I wanted it would stop talking. Do I need to reboot? Can someone give 
>> me a quick tutorial about which voices do what? I think I am hearing the 
>> names correctly, but I am not sure what they all do. Thanks in advance for 
>> the help! Appreciate the help.
>> Reggie and Allegra
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> 
> 
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Re: Voices, setting them?

2014-01-13 Thread regina alvarado

Thanks so much Daniel. Much easier than going into the F8 table. Now, how do I 
get VO to read numbers as full numbers and not one at a time. Also in Safari, 
is there a way to go back to the top of a web page to go through the links 
again without going back through the links back to the top? OAlso, can I VO 
spacebar on a link in an email and go into Safari? I tried it and also tried 
enter. It would not go to the page. Thanks again.
Reggie and Allegra







hI enter on a link in an email and go to Safari? I tried it,, so many 
questions, and I have
On Jan 13, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Daniel Hawkins  
wrote:

Hmm. I have never gone  left of the spacebar which is, cmd, options, ctrl. Now 
with all three keys pressed, use your right or left arrow to cycle thru the 
options, when you get to the voices part, use the up or down to selecct a 
voice. Once done release all keys.
Daniel Hawkins
- Posted from my Macbook Pro

2012 15in. Macbook Pro
2.3 Quad-core i7
4GB DDR3
500GB HDD

Dual Boot:
Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit

On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:58 PM, regina alvarado  wrote:

> Help! I wish to change my voices on my Mini to Karen or Samantha. No matter 
> how I check and then go through the steppers to set rate, etc. the voices 
> will  not show up when I exit the VO menu. I set all  there steppers and 
> looked for an OK, but none could be found. I thought just by checking the 
> voice I wanted it would stop talking. Do I need to reboot? Can someone give 
> me a quick tutorial about which voices do what? I think I am hearing the 
> names correctly, but I am not sure what they all do. Thanks in advance for 
> the help! Appreciate the help.
> Reggie and Allegra
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
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Re: Voices, setting them?

Hi Regina. If your wanting Voiceover to read numbers at full words, in 
the Voiceover utility, interact with the list of VO utilities and go 
down to verbosity. Stop interacting with the utility categories and 
select the text tab. I can't remember where in the text tab it is, but 
I know it's there. HTH.


--
Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook

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How to use find/replace in iText Express?

2014-01-13 Thread Eileen Misrahi

Hello Folks, 

I have been able to set up some work folders/files from the PC onto my Mac. 
They have been saved and copied as DOC files, so I can open them in iText 
Express or TextEdit. Here is my question: I have a symbol that I want to find 
within a template and replace it with a client's name. There are several 
throughout the document, so can someone explain how this is accomplished? 

thanks in advance. 

Cheers, 
Eileen   

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Re: Voices, setting them?

2014-01-13 Thread Daniel Hawkins

Ok the numbers part answered. Now when you are in Safari, or reading a message, 
or going thru a list or table, to to to the very top do this.

Press all these keys at the sametime, it is Fm, ctrl, options and shift, with 
all four keys pressed, now hit the left arrow. That will put you at the top. If 
you want to be at the very bottom, press the four keys and press the right 
arrow.

Some people enable cursor wraping. Which means when you reach at the end, it 
will go back to the beginning. I for one don’t like that so for me it is not 
enabled.

Now, for the clicking on the link in the Mail app. I think my method is not the 
best but here is what I do. 

I interact with the text feild, then I do rotor to Lines, or Link, and then 
scroll down untill I see the link. Then hit VO space.

I’m sure there is a better method but I have not figured that.
Daniel Hawkins
- Posted from my Macbook Pro

2012 15in. Macbook Pro
2.3 Quad-core i7
4GB DDR3
500GB HDD

Dual Boot:
Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit

On Jan 13, 2014, at 7:54 PM, regina alvarado  wrote:

> Thanks so much Daniel. Much easier than going into the F8 table. Now, how do 
> I get VO to read numbers as full numbers and not one at a time. Also in 
> Safari, is there a way to go back to the top of a web page to go through the 
> links again without going back through the links back to the top? OAlso, can 
> I VO spacebar on a link in an email and go into Safari? I tried it and also 
> tried enter. It would not go to the page. Thanks again.
> Reggie and Allegra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hI enter on a link in an email and go to Safari? I tried it,, so many 
> questions, and I have
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Daniel Hawkins  
> wrote:
> 
> Hmm. I have never gone  left of the spacebar which is, cmd, options, ctrl. 
> Now with all three keys pressed, use your right or left arrow to cycle thru 
> the options, when you get to the voices part, use the up or down to selecct a 
> voice. Once done release all keys.
> Daniel Hawkins
> - Posted from my Macbook Pro
> 
> 2012 15in. Macbook Pro
> 2.3 Quad-core i7
> 4GB DDR3
> 500GB HDD
> 
> Dual Boot:
> Windows 7 Ultimate Edition 64-bit
> 
> On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:58 PM, regina alvarado  
> wrote:
> 
>> Help! I wish to change my voices on my Mini to Karen or Samantha. No matter 
>> how I check and then go through the steppers to set rate, etc. the voices 
>> will  not show up when I exit the VO menu. I set all  there steppers and 
>> looked for an OK, but none could be found. I thought just by checking the 
>> voice I wanted it would stop talking. Do I need to reboot? Can someone give 
>> me a quick tutorial about which voices do what? I think I am hearing the 
>> names correctly, but I am not sure what they all do. Thanks in advance for 
>> the help! Appreciate the help.
>> Reggie and Allegra
>> 
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Re: Creating an alios mail account in iCloud