Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): > Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you didn't read or > recall the incident I remember. And you have nothing helpful to add? No, I really do not. And I'm not up for groping around in archives for an unspecified and apparently rather bizarre incident. One more time: Are you talking about a Devuan-provided kernel? If so, what 'kernel calls to get outside http' are you talking about it making? Please detail what you're talking about. If you're not talking about a Devuan-provided kernel, what is your point in vaguely handwaving about it here? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] There is no madness to begin with (was: Re: Stop the madness!)
Steve Litt - 20.10.18, 03:55: > Some folks are asking for automatic sysvinit init script generation, > or else unit file to sysvinit init script converters. Some are asking > Devuan's developers to prioritize their scarce programmer resources > to modifying sysvinit, which is over 30 years old. Yet others think > we should reimplement all the systemd functions in the Unix paradigm. > > Stop the madness! At this stage I believe this discussion, seeing the huge thread, does not add anything to the progress of Devuan. Why? 1) In Debian sysvinit is basically unmaintained. To prevent that Debian removes sysvinit and maintainers of individual daemon packages probably remove init scripts then, it is important to have sysvinit maintained again, including updating it to the latest upstream version – yes, someone still works on it. That is what Devuan developers intend to help with as far as I got as it helps Devuan, too. If it works out, wonderful. If not, Devuan developers can still maintain it on their own. This does not mean to rewrite it or implement fancy new features in it, just to keep it well maintained and of a good quality. 2) Secondly as far as I got none of the core Devuan developers is at all interested to work on implementing a systemd unit script parser. There is someone who is interested to write something that converts systemd units to init scripts as a one-time process, but as far as I am aware none of the core Devuan developers see this as a priority. Also there is a difference between parsing systemd units every time or have a tool that helps to create init scripts once and update them if necessary for software that may not ship one. I do not think that such a tool is needed, but everyone is totally free to use his or her time as he or she likes. Can it be helpful at times to have such a tool? Sure. So, as to what I see there is really nothing to see here. None of the Devuan developers would let go of the important stuff in order to write an systemd unit parser… so… of course you can insist on discussing it endlessly. I just ask: Is this what you would really like to do? If someone likes to work on packaging runit and the runit scripts… wonderful. I'd say just go ahead and let others look at and review your work. I reviewed some of the runit scripts briefly: Some are really dated and probably need to be updated, such as the postfix one. I really like runit from what I read so far and like to see it supported. For now I think it is important to have sysvinit be maintained in Debian again and enjoy the first signs of cooperation between Devuan and Debian. On sysvinit, but also in elogind package. Maybe the start of a long-overdue healing process. How would it be to let the past be in the past… how would it to be let go of all the hurting each other and the blaming each other? The past is gone. Now both sysvinit and Systemd are there. That is just how it is. So instead of convincing those who use Systemd that it is bad, evil, and what else not, how about spending time to work on the alternatives like having sysvinit maintained again *and* supporting runit in Devuan? How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong. As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian I see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly offered to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already offered to upload changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a debian-init-diversity mailing list, focusing on discussing this work. And while there are some people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem to enjoy recreating the past with all the suffering again, there are also people who just go for: What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we do if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*? The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does not exist. Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent to fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit both Devuan and Debian. What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again? Wonderful times, if you ask me. And nothing, at all, to be worried about. I fully get it, the drama has been exciting and interesting. A star performance so to say. The rebels against the empire or vice versa – without it even being clear on who played which role. But it never wrote a single line of code or helped even a tiny bit with maintaining a package. So are you ready to just let go of it… and move on with whatever is really important to you? Are you ready to focus on what you self can do, instead of in
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 12:06 AM, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you didn't read or recall the incident I remember. And you have nothing helpful to add? No, I really do not. And I'm not up for groping around in archives for an unspecified and apparently rather bizarre incident. One more time: Are you talking about a Devuan-provided kernel? If so, what 'kernel calls to get outside http' are you talking about it making? Please detail what you're talking about. If you're not talking about a Devuan-provided kernel, what is your point in vaguely handwaving about it here? Who says you have to read my post, what service do you provide to Devuan or Linux, you just here to make noise, you bigger and smarter than me? You mess with me and I'll put you in your place and I don't care who the F*** you think you are or how much money you make or how big your gun is or any other such crap. Does that help? Just encase, what service do you provide and I will apologize if I have miss judged you. :) -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): > Who says you have to read my post You know, never mind. Much is now clearer. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 12:35 AM, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): Who says you have to read my post You know, never mind. Much is now clearer. What's clearer Rick, how you can save Linux or you've found someone you can't F*** with? Are you a good guy or a bad guy? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
Why do you think people will help you if you can't give any specifics and keep shouting expletives at people? On October 21, 2018 10:55:18 AM GMT+03:00, Jimmy Johnson wrote: >On 10/21/18 12:35 AM, Rick Moen wrote: >> Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): >> >>> Who says you have to read my post >> >> You know, never mind. Much is now clearer. > >What's clearer Rick, how you can save Linux or you've found someone you > >can't F*** with? Are you a good guy or a bad guy? >-- >Jimmy Johnson > >Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 >Registered Linux User #380263 > >___ >Dng mailing list >Dng@lists.dyne.org >https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng m712 -- https://nextchan.org -- https://gitgud.io/blazechan/blazechan I am awake between 3AM-8PM UTC, HMU if the site's broken ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi Rick, On 21/10/18 14:42, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): > >> Who remembers when rootkit hunter started showing problems and >> Debian said they where false positive problems? I think it was >> sometime during the development of Stretch. Well they fixed >> rootkit hunter to not show those problems any longer and so goes >> systemd, one BIG FAT security problem and has made security >> software pretty much useless. At lest with a firewall and no >> systemd you can stop kernel calls to get outside http or at lest >> I can. I think it's to bad we have to live with a kernel that's >> passing our activity to outside sources. I have this stuff >> logged, it can't be denied. I think he means the callout by some systemd setup that does a http or some other test for "connenctivity" ... perhaps it is more than that, but that alone is a concern. It was suggested in /that/ thread to which I think he is talking about, that the test should be to the router or the first outside gateway from your local network. Anyways, I'm not too sure. Cheers A. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCW8w2nAAKCRCoFmvLt+/i ++iFAQC82Ew5AvLbmau+s0hMBK7CwZKTu2UMDWvr6e6EIYbZ1gD/f8PxCIXBNCq5 fRJIig7kLjUFY/RxwN/qACxg0dy6JBU= =A6fC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with
On 10/21/18 12:25 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: 1) In Debian sysvinit is basically unmaintained. To prevent that Debian removes sysvinit and maintainers of individual daemon packages probably remove init scripts then, it is important to have sysvinit maintained again, including updating it to the latest upstream version – yes, someone still works on it. That is what Devuan developers intend to help with as far as I got as it helps Devuan, too. If it works out, wonderful. If not, Devuan developers can still maintain it on their own. This does not mean to rewrite it or implement fancy new features in it, just to keep it well maintained and of a good quality. Martin, how do you think any init can circumvent anything systemd wants to do? There's a 7 going on 8 year old bug filed against systemd that says it's going to do what ever the F*** it wants to do. 2) Secondly as far as I got none of the core Devuan developers is at all interested to work on implementing a systemd unit script parser. There is someone who is interested to write something that converts systemd units to init scripts as a one-time process, but as far as I am aware none of the core Devuan developers see this as a priority. Also there is a difference between parsing systemd units every time or have a tool that helps to create init scripts once and update them if necessary for software that may not ship one. I do not think that such a tool is needed, but everyone is totally free to use his or her time as he or she likes. Can it be helpful at times to have such a tool? Sure. So, as to what I see there is really nothing to see here. No, well lucky for us the heart of Devuan is not in this news group. None of the Devuan developers would let go of the important stuff in order to write an systemd unit parser… so… of course you can insist on discussing it endlessly. I just ask: Is this what you would really like to do? What's your interest? Do you want to help rid systemd? If someone likes to work on packaging runit and the runit scripts… wonderful. I'd say just go ahead and let others look at and review your work. I reviewed some of the runit scripts briefly: Some are really dated and probably need to be updated, such as the postfix one. I really like runit from what I read so far and like to see it supported. For now I think it is important to have sysvinit be maintained in Debian again and enjoy the first signs of cooperation between Devuan and Debian. On sysvinit, but also in elogind package. Maybe the start of a long-overdue healing process. Wow! Your wanting secrets, is that what Debian is after, I don't think Debian want's a fork and while they don't have as many friendly developers as they used to and I think for good reasons, they still have access a whole bunch of git-hub development. Are you trying to say that Debian don't want systemd, but they're stuck with it? What's your interest? How would it be to let the past be in the past… how would it to be let go of all the hurting each other and the blaming each other? The past is gone. Now both sysvinit and Systemd are there. That is just how it is. So instead of convincing those who use Systemd that it is bad, evil, and what else not, how about spending time to work on the alternatives like having sysvinit maintained again *and* supporting runit in Devuan? I would like to see more concentration on getting Devuan back to the way Debian was and then move on. How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong. For one thing if you like systemd then you are in the wrong group period. As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian I see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly offered to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already offered to upload changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a debian-init-diversity mailing list, focusing on discussing this work. And while there are some people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem to enjoy recreating the past with all the suffering again, there are also people who just go for: What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we do if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*? The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does not exist. Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent to fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit both Devuan and Debian. What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again? Wonderful times, if you ask me. And nothing, at all, to be worried about. I fully get it, the drama has been exciting and interesting. A star performance
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 1:00 AM, m712 wrote: Why do you think people will help you if you can't give any specifics and keep shouting expletives at people? Let me know when someone is trying to help? :) -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
Nobody can help you if you don't explain your point. The only thing we got so far is your conspiracy theory of rkhunter masking "false"-false-positives for systemd and an incoherent claim of the Linux kernel doing HTTP requests to somewhere. On October 21, 2018 11:46:07 AM GMT+03:00, Jimmy Johnson wrote: >On 10/21/18 1:00 AM, m712 wrote: >> Why do you think people will help you if you can't give any specifics >and keep shouting expletives at people? > >Let me know when someone is trying to help? :) >-- >Jimmy Johnson > >Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 >Registered Linux User #380263 > >___ >Dng mailing list >Dng@lists.dyne.org >https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng m712 -- https://nextchan.org -- https://gitgud.io/blazechan/blazechan I am awake between 3AM-8PM UTC, HMU if the site's broken ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 01:43:42AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: [cut] > > > > So are you ready to just let go of it… and move on with whatever is > > really important to you? Are you ready to focus on what you self can do, > > instead of insisting to control how other people spend their time? > > > What do you care? Really what are you doing here? You use Debian upstream. > How can you possibly help support a systemd free OS? > > How can I give you a break Martin? How can you help me think you're one of > the good guys? > -- Dear Jimmy, unfortunately the world is not divided into "good" vs "bad" at all times. It's a fact that sysvinit is currently unmaintained in Debian. It's a fact that this can lead to sysvinit being removed from Debian, if not addressed. This is not due to "Debian hates sysvinit", rather to the policy of periodically removing orphaned packages. It's a fact that some Devuan developers have offered to help with the maintenance of sysvinit *in Debian*, since we would have to maintain it nevertheless if it gets removed from Debian. It's a fact that this proposal has found the favour of many Debian developers, who publicly offered to sponsor our uploads. It's a fact that there has been a proposal to modify the Debian policy to remove the requirement of shipping sysvinit scripts in Debian packages. It's a fact that the latter proposal is not seen as a universally good one in Debian, so at the moment such a change in policy seems unlikely to happen. It's a fact that several people, in Debian and outside, are working to ensure that sysvinit does not get stripped off from Debian. Those are the facts so far. The rest is chit-chat, and does not help releasing packages. The hate and the rants against systemd do not help either. I personally value every contribution towards guaranteeing that alternatives to systemd can survive and flourish. Martin has made an effort to mediate the discussion with other Debian developers, and I thank him a lot for that. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 2:16 AM, m712 wrote: Nobody can help you if you don't explain your point. The only thing we got so far is your conspiracy theory of rkhunter masking "false"-false-positives for systemd and an incoherent claim of the Linux kernel doing HTTP requests to somewhere. What makes your post helpful? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:33:33 -0700, Jimmy wrote in message : > On 10/21/18 2:16 AM, m712 wrote: > > Nobody can help you if you don't explain your point. The only thing > > we got so far is your conspiracy theory of rkhunter masking > > "false"-false-positives for systemd and an incoherent claim of the > > Linux kernel doing HTTP requests to somewhere. > > What makes your post helpful? ..to me, it helps ID you as a wannabe black flag systemd shill fishing with Fox "News" type "news" bait. Bye, felicia. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 1:19 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi Rick, On 21/10/18 14:42, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): Who remembers when rootkit hunter started showing problems and Debian said they where false positive problems? I think it was sometime during the development of Stretch. Well they fixed rootkit hunter to not show those problems any longer and so goes systemd, one BIG FAT security problem and has made security software pretty much useless. At lest with a firewall and no systemd you can stop kernel calls to get outside http or at lest I can. I think it's to bad we have to live with a kernel that's passing our activity to outside sources. I have this stuff logged, it can't be denied. I think he means the callout by some systemd setup that does a http or some other test for "connenctivity" ... perhaps it is more than that, but that alone is a concern. It was suggested in /that/ thread to which I think he is talking about, that the test should be to the router or the first outside gateway from your local network. Anyways, I'm not too sure. Cheers Thanks for the post. I first noticed it while testing Stretch, I run a multimedia setup no problem with Jessie without systemd or wheezy, I was running a intel laptop HDMI to a big screen smart tv, the screen would go black and the audio would stop, I'm not the only on who has seen the problem as it's been mentioned on the Debian mailing list. Since then I have ran it on other systems, like Devuan, PCLinuxOS and Slackware too and have seen the the problem in real time while looking at the system log and I would see the kernel making calls to get a outside HTTP, I bring down my net connection and the kernel calls avahi daemon to bring it back up and make a HTTP connection, I stop avahi daemon and the kernel binds with the NIC and tries to get outside HTTP, that's where my firewall stops it. But the kernel keeps trying over and over and over endlessly to get outside HTTP and all this makes it imposable to watch my movie. Using the Intel laptop was convenient, but I got the idea to try my AMD nvidia desktop, I got the same kernel activity but no interference with audio/video, I'm now using ATI Radeon laptop, works the same as nvidia or maybe it's because their both AMD as I don't have nvidia or ATI running on a intel system that I can test. Questions? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 21-10-18 12:10, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > > Thanks for the post. > > I first noticed it while testing Stretch, I run a multimedia setup no > problem with Jessie without systemd or wheezy, I was running a intel > laptop HDMI to a big screen smart tv, the screen would go black and > the audio would stop, I'm not the only on who has seen the problem as > it's been mentioned on the Debian mailing list. Since then I have ran > it on other systems, like Devuan, PCLinuxOS and Slackware too and have > seen the the problem in real time while looking at the system log and > I would see the kernel making calls to get a outside HTTP, I bring > down my net connection and the kernel calls avahi daemon to bring it > back up and make a HTTP connection, I stop avahi daemon and the kernel > binds with the NIC and tries to get outside HTTP, that's where my > firewall stops it. But the kernel keeps trying over and over and over > endlessly to get outside HTTP and all this makes it imposable to watch > my movie. Using the Intel laptop was convenient, but I got the idea > to try my AMD nvidia desktop, I got the same kernel activity but no > interference with audio/video, I'm now using ATI Radeon laptop, works > the same as nvidia or maybe it's because their both AMD as I don't > have nvidia or ATI running on a intel system that I can test. > > Questions? Sounds like you have DRM enabled in your system which phones home for a authorization check. You may be should avoid the non-free repos. Or compile your own kernel. Grtz. Nick signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 2:50 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:33:33 -0700, Jimmy wrote in message : On 10/21/18 2:16 AM, m712 wrote: Nobody can help you if you don't explain your point. The only thing we got so far is your conspiracy theory of rkhunter masking "false"-false-positives for systemd and an incoherent claim of the Linux kernel doing HTTP requests to somewhere. What makes your post helpful? ..to me, it helps ID you as a wannabe black flag systemd shill fishing with Fox "News" type "news" bait. Bye, felicia. Thanks, never thought of using Fox News, here where I live Fox and CBS are both the same station and location and I have them on twitter. But I'm not a shill and I don't lie. By the way, I know what MS Troll is but what's systemd shill? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with
Jimmy. I don't know where you have that anger and hatred towards me from, but I answer nonetheless: Jimmy Johnson - 21.10.18, 10:43: > On 10/21/18 12:25 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: [… most outrage and hatred towards me skipped …] > > None of the Devuan developers would let go of the important stuff in > > order to write an systemd unit parser… so… of course you can insist > > on discussing it endlessly. I just ask: Is this what you would > > really like to do? > > What's your interest? Do you want to help rid systemd? No. I am interested in helping Devuan and Debian cooperate in keeping sysvinit maintained and I am interested in runit. I do not care about Systemd, other than what is necessary to provide slides for my Linux trainings. Which are distro agnostic. I also mention alternatives to Systemd like runit as well as the discussion around introducing Systemd in Debian, I mention Devuan and I mention eudev, I mention elogind. As RHEL, SLES and Debian/Ubuntu have Systemd, RHEL and SLES only, Debian/Ubuntu as default, I provide slides for Systemd. Cause that is what most admins in my trainings use or have to use, even tough some of them do not agree with it. I still keep the slides about Sysvinit around. Any energy I put into resisting Systemd I rather put into helping to keep the alternatives alive and mediating between Debian and Devuan to help to facilitate a long overdue healing process. > > How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use > > Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for > > their > > own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong. > > For one thing if you like systemd then you are in the wrong group > period. While I do like some aspects and functionality of Systemd, I do not agree with the all-in-one, non-portable, only Linux approach and with the strong dependencies it encourages to create, for example between desktop and Systemd. And I see that runit has most of the functionality I like about Systemd, but in a way more flexible and modular way. I am not into the all-or-nothing approach I see with Systemd quite often. > > So are you ready to just let go of it… and move on with whatever is > > really important to you? Are you ready to focus on what you self can > > do, instead of insisting to control how other people spend their > > time? > What do you care? Really what are you doing here? You use Debian > upstream. How can you possibly help support a systemd free OS? Two of my server VMs run Devuan Ascii. Since months. The other one I currently migrate off from, the 32-bit Debian Stretch server VM which started as Debian 5 or 6 and that is going to send this mail, is running sysvinit since quite some time again. This laptop is still running Systemd but I ponder to migrate it do Devuan as well. But of course you can believe what you like. No matter, what the facts actually are. Also you are completely free not to believe any word I say. I see no reason to prove to you what my systems are running. It is entirely your choice whether you'd like to engage in anger and hatred towards me or do *yourself* a favor and let go of it. It is entirely your choice whether you'd like to continue to suffer or to let go of it. The same as it is my choice to let go of being the target for your anger. The same as it is my choice, to opt out of the hurting cycle. It is entirely my choice to focus on helping to bring the healing process along. And I will mediate and let go to also facilitate the healing process between us as well. Cause believe it, or not: I love you too. Thank you. -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with
KatolaZ - 21.10.18, 11:21: > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 01:43:42AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: […] > Dear Jimmy, > > unfortunately the world is not divided into "good" vs "bad" at all > times. A world divided into "good" versus "bad" would be like "black" and "white" to me. I am happy to be able to experience all the other colors as well. > It's a fact that some Devuan developers have offered to help with the > maintenance of sysvinit *in Debian*, since we would have to maintain > it nevertheless if it gets removed from Debian. > > It's a fact that this proposal has found the favour of many Debian > developers, who publicly offered to sponsor our uploads. I'd make that "some" instead of "many" Debian developers, but anyway, it is a good start. Change always starts with a few people. > I personally value every contribution towards guaranteeing that > alternatives to systemd can survive and flourish. Martin has made an > effort to mediate the discussion with other Debian developers, and I > thank him a lot for that. You are welcome. Thank you putting development work into this. As soon as sysvinit is up on salsa.debian.org… I may apply for access as well to help to fix bugs. There are 49 tagged patch in the BTS, some of those may be low-hanging fruits to work on¹. [1] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/sysvinit Thanks, -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with
Martin Steigerwald - 21.10.18, 12:20: > It is entirely my choice to focus on helping to bring the healing > process along. And I will mediate and let go to also facilitate the meditate I meant here. Did not catch this while proof-reading my mail. > healing process between us as well. Cause believe it, or not: > > I love you too. -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with (was: Re: Stop the madness!)
Am Sonntag, 21. Oktober 2018 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > Steve Litt - 20.10.18, 03:55: > > Some folks are asking for automatic sysvinit init script generation, > > or else unit file to sysvinit init script converters. Some are asking > > Devuan's developers to prioritize their scarce programmer resources > > to modifying sysvinit, which is over 30 years old. Yet others think > > we should reimplement all the systemd functions in the Unix paradigm. > > > > Stop the madness! […] > How would it be to let the past be in the past… how would it to be let > go of all the hurting each other and the blaming each other? The past is > gone. Now both sysvinit and Systemd are there. That is just how it is. > So instead of convincing those who use Systemd that it is bad, evil, and > what else not, how about spending time to work on the alternatives like > having sysvinit maintained again *and* supporting runit in Devuan? > > How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use > Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their > own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong. > > As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian I > see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly offered > to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already offered to upload > changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a debian-init-diversity > mailing list, focusing on discussing this work. And while there are some > people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem to enjoy recreating the past > with all the suffering again, there are also people who just go for: > > What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we do > if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*? > > The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does not > exist. > > Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation > between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each > other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent to > fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit both > Devuan and Debian. > > What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again? > > Wonderful times, if you ask me. And nothing, at all, to be worried > about. > > I fully get it, the drama has been exciting and interesting. A star > performance so to say. The rebels against the empire or vice versa – > without it even being clear on who played which role. But it never wrote > a single line of code or helped even a tiny bit with maintaining a > package. > > So are you ready to just let go of it… and move on with whatever is > really important to you? Are you ready to focus on what you self can do, > instead of insisting to control how other people spend their time? > > Thanks for listening. > > Best, Well said, Martin, that's quite close to the name of your domain! :-) Kind regards, Stefan ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
This is not related to systemd. It sounds more like Xrandr and pulseaudio/alsa favoring your HDMI more than your laptop. The Linux kernel doesn't "know" about avahi daemon in the sense that there is no code for it in the Linux source tree. Did you ever log those HTTP requests by chance? On October 21, 2018 1:10:27 PM GMT+03:00, Jimmy Johnson wrote: >On 10/21/18 1:19 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> Hi Rick, >> >> On 21/10/18 14:42, Rick Moen wrote: >>> Quoting Jimmy Johnson (field.engin...@gmail.com): >>> Who remembers when rootkit hunter started showing problems and Debian said they where false positive problems? I think it was sometime during the development of Stretch. Well they fixed rootkit hunter to not show those problems any longer and so goes systemd, one BIG FAT security problem and has made security software pretty much useless. At lest with a firewall and no systemd you can stop kernel calls to get outside http or at lest I can. I think it's to bad we have to live with a kernel that's passing our activity to outside sources. I have this stuff logged, it can't be denied. >> >> I think he means the callout by some systemd setup that does a http >or >> some other test for "connenctivity" ... perhaps it is more than that, >> but that alone is a concern. It was suggested in /that/ thread to >> which I think he is talking about, that the test should be to the >> router or the first outside gateway from your local network. >> >> Anyways, I'm not too sure. >> >> Cheers > >Thanks for the post. > >I first noticed it while testing Stretch, I run a multimedia setup no >problem with Jessie without systemd or wheezy, I was running a intel >laptop HDMI to a big screen smart tv, the screen would go black and the > >audio would stop, I'm not the only on who has seen the problem as it's >been mentioned on the Debian mailing list. Since then I have ran it on >other systems, like Devuan, PCLinuxOS and Slackware too and have seen >the the problem in real time while looking at the system log and I >would >see the kernel making calls to get a outside HTTP, I bring down my net >connection and the kernel calls avahi daemon to bring it back up and >make a HTTP connection, I stop avahi daemon and the kernel binds with >the NIC and tries to get outside HTTP, that's where my firewall stops >it. But the kernel keeps trying over and over and over endlessly to >get >outside HTTP and all this makes it imposable to watch my movie. Using >the Intel laptop was convenient, but I got the idea to try my AMD >nvidia >desktop, I got the same kernel activity but no interference with >audio/video, I'm now using ATI Radeon laptop, works the same as nvidia >or maybe it's because their both AMD as I don't have nvidia or ATI >running on a intel system that I can test. > >Questions? >-- >Jimmy Johnson > >Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 >Registered Linux User #380263 > >___ >Dng mailing list >Dng@lists.dyne.org >https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng m712 -- https://nextchan.org -- https://gitgud.io/blazechan/blazechan I am awake between 3AM-8PM UTC, HMU if the site's broken ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with
On 10/21/18 3:33 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: KatolaZ - 21.10.18, 11:21: On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 01:43:42AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: […] Dear Jimmy, unfortunately the world is not divided into "good" vs "bad" at all times. A world divided into "good" versus "bad" would be like "black" and "white" to me. That says a lot. Good vs bad to me is more like 1 vs 0 or on vs off, going to hell vs not going to hell. To me black and white is photography, like B&W vs Color Photograph. But as Red Fox said, Yes, there are nigger's and they come in all kinds of colors. Red Fox was a smart man. -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Adam Borowski - 20.10.18, 22:54: > * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip. It is also used by LibreOffice (or under-maintained OpenOffice). […] > * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather than a > pure compressor. There can be benefits of container compressors like zip and 7z: Tar comes from Tape Archiver. It works sequential. So to dig out just one file it has to read over all the archive until that file comes. Zip instead has the contents directory at a central place, as far as I vaguely remember at the end of the file. That is one of the reasons OpenOffice developers back then chose it. Well of course there are other containers as well like dar for disk archiver. There is a crazy amount of tools in that area. I benchmarked some of them quite some time ago¹. [1] outdated, I wrote a Linux User article about those quite some time ago, the packbench program may still work tough and could be enhanced, adapted to support newer stuff: https://martin-steigerwald.de/computer/programme/packbench/index.html And yeah, I know Gitorius is gone and I intend to upload everything to Gitlab at some time. -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Daemon names for runit
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 01:52:23 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > Please view > http://troubleshooters.com/linux/init/runit_daemon_list.htm and if > you use any daemons not on that list, please email me with the daemon > name(s) so I can get run scripts for them. > > Thanks, > > SteveT Hallo Steve, not sure if this is of relevance for your list: I am running rtorrent on my router, somewhat "daemonized" with dtach from '/etc/rc.local': su - $RUNASUSER -c '/usr/bin/dtach -n /tmp/rtorrent.dtach /usr/bin/rtorrent' & Libre Grüße, Florian -- \ \\ \ \ | | / \ | ILS SONT FOUS| |CES ROMAINS!| \__/ pgpezD8PkWAdo.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 4:15 AM, m712 wrote: This is not related to systemd. It sounds more like Xrandr and pulseaudio/alsa favoring your HDMI more than your laptop. The Linux kernel doesn't "know" about avahi daemon in the sense that there is no code for it in the Linux source tree. Did you ever log those HTTP requests by chance? Thanks for top posting. Yes they are logged and just as I wrote. What part is it that you don't believe? -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] There is no madness to begin with (was: Re: Stop the madness!)
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:25:39 +0200, Martin wrote in message <17528997.NVoXsIU3kD@merkaba>: > How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use > Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their > own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong. ..there is a new Debian policy on init systems brewing? Good news. > As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian > I see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly > offered to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already > offered to upload changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a > debian-init-diversity mailing list, focusing on discussing this work. ..yay!!! Any chance there will be an official Debian list? http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/debian-init-diversity http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-init-diversity/2018-October/thread.html ..seeing [ Debian's ] "d-i always starts with systemd so every new install will need to switch from systemd!)" in: ... http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-init-diversity/2018-October/22.html ...have any of you Debian guys tried to install or rescue a Debian box from a Devuan d-i installer? AFAIUI, that would mean switching TO systemd, FROM s6, runit, sysv-init or whatever we run in Devuan's d-i. Which might help in those odd cases where Debian's d-i fails. > And while there are some people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem > to enjoy recreating the past with all the suffering again, there are > also people who just go for: ..aye, we have those haters here too. Over at Groklaw.net a lot of us came in "al Qaida is fake, who else is out there?"-style and wound up enjoying teasing new litigation test balloon stunts out of our beloved 11 year US$ 4Bill Oshkoshy litigants, if you can imagine a lawsuit feel like an 11 year US$ 4Bill air show. Quite an healing process. :o) > What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we > do if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*? ..you Debian guys will do the from-systemd parts since you know them better? ..starting with a way to read the binary systemd log files on machines not running systemd, will help convince people like myself you mean business on Debian people wanting init system diversity. > The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does > not exist. ..for some of us, this past(?) Debian systemd etc policy from the banana republic coup style policy change, had expensive consequences, which remain as a rather useless daily reminder. > Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation > between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each > other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent > to fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit > both Devuan and Debian. > > What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again? ..we will find out, one way or another. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:52:53PM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > On 10/20/18 11:18 PM, J. Fahrner wrote: > > Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: > > > In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit from > > > starting a daemon. > > > > man update-rc.d > > > > You can remove or disable a service. > > > > Jochen > > Can a person simple remove the 'exe' properties from the rc-* script or just > rename it? I don't remember the symlink maintenance scripts, so I usually do this: chmod a-x /etc/init.d/exim4 > -- > Jimmy Johnson > > Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 > Registered Linux User #380263 > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
Le 20/10/2018 à 22:54, Adam Borowski a écrit : bzip2 is drastically slower (esp. at decompression) than xz and zstd; it needs to die. There's a version of bzip2 which can parallellize the compression while producing a compatible format. When compression has been parallellized, decompression can be as well. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Daemon names for runit
Hi Steve. Steve Litt - 21.10.18, 07:52: > Please view > http://troubleshooters.com/linux/init/runit_daemon_list.htm and if > you use any daemons not on that list, please email me with the daemon > name(s) so I can get run scripts for them. - quasselcore - rsyslog - syslog-ng Whoa, there even is a syslogd still: inetutils-syslogd I did not think it is still packaged. - if you care tinysshd, which has only a systemd unit according to someone posting on debian-devel ml (I don't use it) Also I'd like to know step by step how to switch a service from sysvinit to runit, without replacing PID 1 at this time. I'd specially like to have runit supervise OpenSSH daemon for example and restart it, in case it is stopped for some reason. I bet I could look all of these up quite easily, but maybe you like to do a little how-to. Thanks, -- Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:17:24AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 07:19:49 +0200 > KatolaZ wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, pointing to a bunch of scripts is not enough: > > It's a starting point. Power-user individuals can start using runit > today, with no action by any developers. But wait, there's more... > > > you need > > somebody who has experience of using runit who is willing to package > > the whole stuff in a coherent way, IMHO. > > Do you mean by "the whole stuff", and what do you mean by "a coherent > way"? Do you mean packaging each daemon's runit directory with the > daemon? That can't happen in the near future: Big job. Do you mean > having a package for all the runit daemons, and that package will > create all runit directories so all someone has to do after installing > the daemon is make the symlink? Or make one package for each daemon's runit directory and make that package depend on the daemon's own package. If several daemons are together in one package one could combine their runit directories in on package too, but that's probably not necessary. This way runit packages could be gradually, incrementally added to the system. There may still be a problem with conflict with sysvinit scripts which presumaby will still be hanging around. Can sysvinit usefully be complicated so as to check if there is a runit script before it calls the usual init.d script? -- hendrik > That can be done in the near future. I > can make a shellscript that: > > 1) Disables daemon startup from /etc/rc.d/rc5.d and rc0.d > > 2) Enables daemon startup from runit. I can package that along with the >bunch of daemon runit directories. > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business > http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 13:25:24 +0200, Martin wrote in message <14421440.MIaJRJDx6e@merkaba>: > Adam Borowski - 20.10.18, 22:54: > > * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip. > > It is also used by LibreOffice (or under-maintained OpenOffice). > > […] > > * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather > > than a pure compressor. > > There can be benefits of container compressors like zip and 7z: > > Tar comes from Tape Archiver. It works sequential. So to dig out just > one file it has to read over all the archive until that file comes. > > Zip instead has the contents directory at a central place, as far as > I vaguely remember at the end of the file. That is one of the reasons > OpenOffice developers back then chose it. > > Well of course there are other containers as well like dar for disk > archiver. > > There is a crazy amount of tools in that area. I benchmarked some of > them quite some time ago¹. > > [1] outdated, I wrote a Linux User article about those quite some > time ago, the packbench program may still work tough and could be > enhanced, adapted to support newer stuff: > https://martin-steigerwald.de/computer/programme/packbench/index.html ..these tests packed/zipped coreutils-8.5.tar from here?: https://savannah.gnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=6301 > And yeah, I know Gitorius is gone and I intend to upload everything > to Gitlab at some time. > -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:25:04 -1000 Joel Roth wrote: > On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:52:53PM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > > On 10/20/18 11:18 PM, J. Fahrner wrote: > > > Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: > > > > In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit > > > > from starting a daemon. > > > > > > man update-rc.d > > > > > > You can remove or disable a service. > > > > > > Jochen > > > > Can a person simple remove the 'exe' properties from the rc-* > > script or just rename it? > > I don't remember the symlink maintenance scripts, so I > usually do this: > > chmod a-x /etc/init.d/exim4 Does your next update undo that? SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 08:48:14 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > Or make one package for each daemon's runit directory and make that > package depend on the daemon's own package. That's a lot of work. I'd need considerable help. > > If several daemons are together in one package one could combine > their runit directories in on package too, but that's probably not > necessary. Just have all three of them active and have their run scripts do the proper dependencies. If they need to be shut down in a certain order, that would involve an additional shellscript. > > This way runit packages could be gradually, incrementally added to > the system. Yes! Incremental is good. There may be other ways to go incremental besides a runit package for every daemon. > > There may still be a problem with conflict with sysvinit scripts > which presumaby will still be hanging around. No doubt about it. > Can sysvinit usefully > be complicated so as to check if there is a runit script before it > calls the usual init.d script? This is why I asked the question about permanently shutting down a sysvinit /etc/init.d/rc5.d script. If, at the same time you or a package fired up a runit supervisor for the daemon, the sysvinit daemon starter for that daemon would be shut down, it would take care of the problem except when somebody or something makes an error. I would caution against adding features to sysvinit at this time, in my opinion. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 21/10/18 21:10, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > I first noticed it while testing Stretch, I run a multimedia setup > no problem with Jessie without systemd or wheezy, I was running a > intel laptop HDMI to a big screen smart tv, the screen would go > black and the audio would stop, I'm not the only on who has seen > the problem as it's been mentioned on the Debian mailing list. > Since then I have ran it on other systems, like Devuan, PCLinuxOS > and Slackware too and have seen the the problem in real time while > looking at the system log and I would see the kernel making calls > to get a outside HTTP, I bring down my net connection and the > kernel calls avahi daemon to bring it back up and make a HTTP > connection, I stop avahi daemon and the kernel binds with the NIC > and tries to get outside HTTP, that's where my firewall stops it. > But the kernel keeps trying over and over and over endlessly to > get outside HTTP and all this makes it imposable to watch my movie. > Using the Intel laptop was convenient, but I got the idea to try my > AMD nvidia desktop, I got the same kernel activity but no > interference with audio/video, I'm now using ATI Radeon laptop, > works the same as nvidia or maybe it's because their both AMD as I > don't have nvidia or ATI running on a intel system that I can > test. > > Questions? Is the cable perhaps 1.4 type with built-in Ethernet? Wonder if that might have something to do with it too. The SmartTV might be doing the communication attempts. Maybe it is trying to tattle on you for using video that it /thinks/ is breaking digital rights.. maybe something else entirely. If the kernel is making the HTTP calls, it might be under direction of the video driver that is able to network with the screen via the HDMI cable. Cheers A. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCW8x+CQAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +w1SAQDK1eXGm8fdtu7vmydvNeJzrLB3UCK/CKAX24xGGSX35QD9GLIqVQCJaoUw GsPPNGOYwpz0fw/tj6IZj576OYlTZ7I= =S3xz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On 21.10.18 08:18, J. Fahrner wrote: > Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: > > In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit from > > starting a daemon. > > man update-rc.d > > You can remove or disable a service. And e.g. "view /etc/rc2.d/README" recites chapter and verse, without the need to read more bumpf than is needed. Erik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 08:50:40AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:25:04 -1000 > Joel Roth wrote: > > > On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:52:53PM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > > > On 10/20/18 11:18 PM, J. Fahrner wrote: > > > > Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: > > > > > In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit > > > > > from starting a daemon. > > > > > > > > man update-rc.d > > > > > > > > You can remove or disable a service. > > > > > > > > Jochen > > > > > > Can a person simple remove the 'exe' properties from the rc-* > > > script or just rename it? > > > > I don't remember the symlink maintenance scripts, so I > > usually do this: > > > > chmod a-x /etc/init.d/exim4 > > Does your next update undo that? Not tested, but AFAIK during an upgrade Debian does not clobber any config files that have been altered or had permissions changed without prompting. -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 08:59:12AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 08:48:14 -0400 > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > Or make one package for each daemon's runit directory and make that > > package depend on the daemon's own package. > > That's a lot of work. I'd need considerable help. I wish I knew more about how to do this. Is it significantly more work than just writing the runit scripts/directories (which is the right word to use here; I've alredy been called out for talking about systemd scripts instead of systemd units)? Presumably all these packages are very similar, and the process of wrapping a packaage around a script/directory could even be automated. > > > > > If several daemons are together in one package one could combine > > their runit directories in on package too, but that's probably not > > necessary. > > Just have all three of them active and have their run scripts do the > proper dependencies. If they need to be shut down in a certain order, > that would involve an additional shellscript. > > > > > This way runit packages could be gradually, incrementally added to > > the system. > > Yes! Incremental is good. There may be other ways to go incremental > besides a runit package for every daemon. This is just the one that occurred to me. But it seems better than translating systemd unit files into runit. :-) > > > > > There may still be a problem with conflict with sysvinit scripts > > which presumaby will still be hanging around. > > No doubt about it. > > > Can sysvinit usefully > > be complicated so as to check if there is a runit script before it > > calls the usual init.d script? > > This is why I asked the question about permanently shutting down a > sysvinit /etc/init.d/rc5.d script. If, at the same time you or a > package fired up a runit supervisor for the daemon, the sysvinit daemon > starter for that daemon would be shut down, it would take care of the > problem except when somebody or something makes an error. Sounds good. So the runit package would wrap the directory with boilerplate packageing info, including an installation-time shutdown of the sysvinit script. > > I would caution against adding features to sysvinit at this time, in my > opinion. > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business > http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:04:22 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > Sounds good. So the runit package would wrap the directory with > boilerplate packageing info, including an installation-time shutdown > of the sysvinit script. I don't understand a word of the preceding paragraph, which is part of the problem. I've used Yast, yum, apt-get and xbps, and never understood what goes into a package in any of them. Looks like I'm going to have to learn. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 08:59:12 -0400, Steve wrote in message
<20181021085912.69aef...@mydesk.domain.cxm>:
> This is why I asked the question about permanently shutting down a
> sysvinit /etc/init.d/rc5.d script. If, at the same time you or a
> package fired up a runit supervisor for the daemon, the sysvinit
> daemon starter for that daemon would be shut down, it would take care
> of the problem except when somebody or something makes an error.
..'mv -vf /etc/rc5.d/S$i$p /etc/rc5.d/K$(100-$i)$p ' style?
Read 'man update-rc.d ' like Jochen said, or the output of:
'for i in $(ls /etc/{i,r}*.d/README ) ;do less $i ;done '
if you wanna do it die hard way on init=/bin/sh boot ups.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
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Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 10:14:56AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:04:22 -0400 > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > Sounds good. So the runit package would wrap the directory with > > boilerplate packageing info, including an installation-time shutdown > > of the sysvinit script. > > I don't understand a word of the preceding paragraph, which is part of > the problem. I've used Yast, yum, apt-get and xbps, and never > understood what goes into a package in any of them. Looks like I'm > going to have to learn. I don't understand packaging either -- except that a package has to contian information that allows the ackaging system to function. Beyond that it's a mystery. I gather that packaging systems have grown over a long time by accretion of features. Both tags and such that haave to be present in the package and an ever-changing plethora of tools to assist one in building them. It's complicated. Packaging is probably the main reason I've never coded for android. Writing code that runs on Linux (and isn't packaged) is comparatively easy. -- hendrik > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business > http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Service directory location
Hi all, The runit (or daemontools or s6) service directory is the directory which is scanned for symlinks of runit directories. The Debian runit package sets it to /etc/service, the Void package sets it to /var/service, and both djb and runit author G. Pape recommend setting it to /service, which of course would be rejected by most admins. Debian's /etc/service is a perfectly good choice as long as: 1) /etc isn't read only 2) You're not using runit along with daemontools or s6 or anything else which might claim the name "service". In the short run we can just use the Debian default. Most people have read/write /etc, and most people don't simultaneously install runit along with either s6 or daemontools/daemontools-encore. In the longer run I'd recommend /var/rsvc because /var is always read-write, and the r in rsvc indicates "runit", where for s6 it would be /var/ssvc and daemontools would be /var/dsvc. For the time being I'll proceed on the assumption that it will be /etc/service for the foreseeable future. Just a heads-up. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
> selling point was th[at] systemd is faster, SystemD has certainly been touted that way, I personally have not found it so in practice across a variety of hardware. There is a catch, one that *any* init system needs to take into consideration. Whilst a modern CPU can cope with multi-tasking most disk systems cannot. I have observed the highest occurrences of disk thrashing during system boot. Starting disk hungry processes in parallel just slows down the whole system as the cumulative disk head seek times go through the roof. You can often get better performance using the old style sequential sysvinit scripts under these conditions. Once every system runs from flash disk this should not be a problem, until then, parallelism is not necessarily the best way. The init system should be devised to proactively measure and handle this. I used to use 'make' to launch parallel processes on a cluster dependant upon CPU load, what would be the best way to take CPU and IO (disk, network) into account. Suggestions anyone ? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Service directory location
On 21/10/2018 16:19, Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > The runit (or daemontools or s6) service directory is the directory > which is scanned for symlinks of runit directories. The Debian runit > package sets it to /etc/service, the Void package sets it > to /var/service, and both djb and runit author G. Pape recommend > setting it to /service, which of course would be rejected by most > admins. > > Debian's /etc/service is a perfectly good choice as long as: > > 1) /etc isn't read only It is actually quite difficult to make '/etc' truly read only on anything but a host for a dedicated use (you can use a ramdisk or overlayfs to good effect though) as there are files that you cannot easily redirect. > 2) You're not using runit along with daemontools or s6 or anything else > which might claim the name "service". > > In the short run we can just use the Debian default. Most people have > read/write /etc, and most people don't simultaneously install runit > along with either s6 or daemontools/daemontools-encore. > > In the longer run I'd recommend /var/rsvc because /var is always > read-write, and the r in rsvc indicates "runit", where for s6 it would > be /var/ssvc and daemontools would be /var/dsvc. I advise against this, in all systems, '/var' *should* (not is) be a separate file system from '/'. A system should be bootable (errors permitted, logging straight to the console, but must be capable to at least reach single-user mode) without '/var' present Traditionally '/var' could even be an NFS mount during boot from a remote machine (the same as '/usr'). > For the time being I'll proceed on the assumption that it will > be /etc/service for the foreseeable future. I approve of '/etc' but don't like 'service', my gut says this is wrong and will come back and bit us (there is already /etc/services). I will sleep on it and try to think of a better alternative, I apologise for not being more helpful in this regard. > > Just a heads-up. > > SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Service directory location
Le 21/10/2018 à 17:19, Steve Litt a écrit : 1) /etc isn't read only /etc has to be r/w for root if package management is to function! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
Le 21/10/2018 à 14:50, Steve Litt a écrit : On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:25:04 -1000 Joel Roth wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:52:53PM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: On 10/20/18 11:18 PM, J. Fahrner wrote: Am 2018-10-21 08:10, schrieb Steve Litt: In Devuan, what's the command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting a daemon. man update-rc.d You can remove or disable a service. Jochen Can a person simple remove the 'exe' properties from the rc-* script or just rename it? I don't remember the symlink maintenance scripts, so I usually do this: chmod a-x /etc/init.d/exim4 Does your next update undo that? I'm not an expert, but it seems to me the answer is in inittab; the following line invokes the daemon which launches all the scripts: si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS Considering that, it might suffice to have two versions of inittab. It could be done by splitting in two the sysvinit package. I imagine this package could be forked from Debian since it's not going to change for several decades. Let's consider the following plot, for example: package sysvinit: contains only the pid1 part, but depends on either rcS or runit package rcS: contains rcS and the associated inittab,excludes package runit. package runit: contains runit and the associated inittab, excludes package rcS. Now consider the runit script. I see two solutions: 1) provide in the runit package the scripts for everypossible daemon, but containing the necessary logic to determine if it is installed and must be started. 2) provide the runit script for every installed daemon, and only for those installed. The second option is more attractive, but it means either fork the package for every daemon (not doable), or convince upstream to maintain such script, or trigger at install time some word processor able to generate it, and some action to remove it when uninstalling. Every daemon would then come with a systemd config file, an rcS script and a runit script. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
Le 21/10/2018 à 19:01, Didier Kryn a écrit : I'm not an expert, but it seems to me the answer is in inittab; the following line invokes the daemon which launches all the scripts: si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS Well, there is also the following lines: l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 So, well the inittab for runit might differ a lot from the inittab of rcS. Not a big deal, that's a small file. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Everyone OK for using the logger program for runit logging?
Hi all, With runit, you can either use the "runit way" of recording log files, in which one looks in the daemon's run directory for something called .main, or you can use one of several logging programs. I'm using logger, and a Devuan ASCII VM guest I downloaded has the logger program and I didn't install it. The logger program appears to put messages with the correct timestamp, correct tag, and message, in the proper log file. This log file was /var/log/messages for logins to ssh. I have to choose one method of doing logs for Devuan's daemon log run scripts. Is doing it with the logger program OK with you? SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On 21/10/18 at 15:32, Joel Roth wrote: > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 08:50:40AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: >> On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:25:04 -1000 >> Joel Roth wrote: >> >> I don't remember the symlink maintenance scripts, so I >> usually do this: >> >> chmod a-x /etc/init.d/exim4 >> Does your next update undo that? > > Not tested, but AFAIK during an upgrade Debian does not > clobber any config files that have been altered or had > permissions changed without prompting. I don't think init scripts are considered configuration files, as in fact the are not. For instance, /etc/init.d/apache2 is a logically different component of the apache2 package compared to /etc/apache2/apache2.conf as it serves a different purpose: that is, not telling the server what sites it should manage each running with what specific settings, rather controlling and managing the processes that serve the configured sites. What does this change in practice? That regardless that you remove or purge the apache2 packages, the /etc/init.d/apache2 script is gone, but the /etc/apache2/apache2.conf is kept in case you erased the packed without a purge. So, I expect an update to overwrite the init script with the update's version regardless, and to reset the permissions to those set in the package. -- Alessandro Selli VOIP SIP: dhatarat...@ekiga.net Chiave firma e cifratura PGP/GPG signing and encoding key: BA651E4050DDFC31E17384BABCE7BD1A1B0DF2AE signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
Steve Litt wrote: > What I said was that if you like sysvinit, use it, but for gosh sakes > don't take the time and energy to modify it or update it or give it > systemd features. +1 Old does not equal broken. Perhaps the reason sysvinit hasn't seen much maintenance for a while is that it just hasn't needed it - if it ain't broke, don't fix it ! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 6:24 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 21/10/18 21:10, Jimmy Johnson wrote: I first noticed it while testing Stretch, I run a multimedia setup no problem with Jessie without systemd or wheezy, I was running a intel laptop HDMI to a big screen smart tv, the screen would go black and the audio would stop, I'm not the only on who has seen the problem as it's been mentioned on the Debian mailing list. Since then I have ran it on other systems, like Devuan, PCLinuxOS and Slackware too and have seen the the problem in real time while looking at the system log and I would see the kernel making calls to get a outside HTTP, I bring down my net connection and the kernel calls avahi daemon to bring it back up and make a HTTP connection, I stop avahi daemon and the kernel binds with the NIC and tries to get outside HTTP, that's where my firewall stops it. But the kernel keeps trying over and over and over endlessly to get outside HTTP and all this makes it imposable to watch my movie. Using the Intel laptop was convenient, but I got the idea to try my AMD nvidia desktop, I got the same kernel activity but no interference with audio/video, I'm now using ATI Radeon laptop, works the same as nvidia or maybe it's because their both AMD as I don't have nvidia or ATI running on a intel system that I can test. Questions? Is the cable perhaps 1.4 type with built-in Ethernet? Wonder if that might have something to do with it too. The SmartTV might be doing the communication attempts. Maybe it is trying to tattle on you for using video that it /thinks/ is breaking digital rights.. maybe something else entirely. If the kernel is making the HTTP calls, it might be under direction of the video driver that is able to network with the screen via the HDMI cable. Cheers The smart tv has wifi, like all this smart stuff we have today, if the HDMI cable has internet, I doubt it, just audio and video. Just so everybody knows the laptop for multimedia, amd radeon has a new from scratch install of ASCII, I've let it set overnight with a movie on pause and the log is open and running live and while I've had the net down the log says:eth0 link down, receive packet failed, dhclent failed to send 300 byte long packet over fallback interface(what fallback interface?), and last is send_packet: please consult README file regarding broadcast address. That was the last log, since I brought the net down and it's much, much quieter and seems to be behaving its self and my audio/video seem to be perfect. I have a computer to repair, a laptop with no power, as I suffer spine & nerve damage & constant pain it maybe a all day job. So I will be checking comments when I can. But for ASCII and it seems to be behaving its self, that is great, with the intel its behavior was crazy. Thanks, -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Stop the madness!
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:34:35 +0100 Simon Hobson wrote: > Steve Litt wrote: > > > What I said was that if you like sysvinit, use it, but for gosh > > sakes don't take the time and energy to modify it or update it or > > give it systemd features. > > +1 > Old does not equal broken. Perhaps the reason sysvinit hasn't seen > much maintenance for a while is that it just hasn't needed it - if it > ain't broke, don't fix it ! Yes. Fetchmail hasn't changed in centuries, but I use it about 480 times a day to do the vital task of grabbing all my email from remote pop and imap servers. Every day it acts exactly the same way, and if something goes wrong I can pretty much rule out fetchmail from the start. SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Who remembers rootkit..
On 10/21/18 11:54 AM, Jimmy Johnson wrote: On 10/21/18 6:24 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 The smart tv has wifi, like all this smart stuff we have today, if the HDMI cable has internet, I doubt it, just audio and video. Just so everybody knows the laptop for multimedia, amd radeon has a new from scratch install of ASCII, I've let it set overnight with a movie on pause and the log is open and running live and while I've had the net down the log says:eth0 link down, receive packet failed, dhclent failed to send 300 byte long packet over fallback interface(what fallback interface?), and last is send_packet: please consult README file regarding broadcast address. That was the last log, since I brought the net down and it's much, much quieter and seems to be behaving its self and my audio/video seem to be perfect. I have a computer to repair, a laptop with no power, as I suffer spine & nerve damage & constant pain it maybe a all day job. So I will be checking comments when I can. But for ASCII and it seems to be behaving its self, that is great, with the intel its behavior was crazy. Thanks, Hello Mr. Jimmy Johnson, I am just a casual GNU/Linux user who is very much interested in the Devuan project and I know next to nothing about networking and firewalls. I just use what the default is on installation. I just wanted to ask what log you are viewing and the method you are using to view the log file. I would like to check what kind of messages are being generated on my system. Thank you, Eric ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Debian (and therefore Devuan) runit package needs a little help
Hi all, Install the runit package like any other package. Then put the following in /etc/inittab, probably at or near the bottom: sv:123456:respawn:/usr/bin/runsvdir /etc/service "___" Except the string of underscores contains 85 underscores: I couldn't put all 85 in email. When making run scripts, any daemon that requires a special directory, such as /run/sshd, must make that directory with: mkdir -p /run/sshd before exec'ing the daemon. Doing so requires only a couple milliseconds and a tiny amount of CPU and RAM, but it relieves the package from creating the directory before first use. So far the only run script I have checked and running on my Devuan VM is ssh(d). SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Command to permanently prevent sysvinit from starting daemon
On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:07:36 +0200, Didier wrote in message <826ba68a-6289-d047-7e74-d970996d2...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 21/10/2018 à 19:01, Didier Kryn a écrit : > > I'm not an expert, but it seems to me the answer is in inittab; > > the following line invokes the daemon which launches all the > > scripts: > > > > si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS > > > Well, there is also the following lines: > > l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 > l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 > l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 > l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 > l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 > l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 > l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 ..how many "runlevels" _can_ we add here? Can we name them freely? ..I'm not saying we should beat a stuffed "sysctl isolate $service" systemd pig, just noting we have numbers and letters and lower and upper cases etc and I've never seen anyone try "telinit 666" nor 'init Tor' nor 'init FlightGear' etc to swap box configs to do specific things like surf porn, investigate corruption or race quad copters in FlightGear online, and to "kill off everything else" using cpu, gpu or ram etc, automagically. > So, well the inittab for runit might differ a lot from the > inittab of rcS. Not a big deal, that's a small file. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Keep em coming
Hi all, Several of you emailed me with package name to add to the list I've curated and the list G. Pape has curated. Here are the recent additions from this mailing list: acpid apcupsd apt-cacher-ng bind9 clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam clamav-milter courier-authdaemon courier-imap courier-imap-ssl courier-pop courier-pop-ssl cpufrequtils dansguardian denyhosts dnsmasq espeakup exim4 fakehwclock flashybrid freeradius fwknop haveged i2p ifplugd ifrename inetutils-syslogd ircd-hybrid knockd lighttpd loadcpufreq mailman mldonkey-server nfs opendkim openvpn postgrey proftpd quasselcore radvd rpcbind rsyslog rtorrent saslauthd sendmail spamassassin sqwebmail syslog-ng tftp tinysshd uml-utilities wicd xinetd Keep em coming! Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt September 2018 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan + remote desktop of Ubuntu = how?
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 13:07:19 +0200 Miroslav Skoric wrote: > On 10/17/2018 03:18 PM, terryc wrote: I'm going to start off by saying I'm unable to help you with your quest. In fact, my answers are basically like the local who is asked by a tourist "How do you get to blah-blah from here" and receives the reply "If i was yuou, I wouldn't get to there from here". However, I realise my comments are based on my experiences in two PC clubs and two LUGs over a few decades when the interest was fresh and new and the environment is different now. However, than you for your interest in promoting Devuan. > > It's a seniors club, 70-75 at average. Err, how old do you think the people who developed the "Internet" are? Don't assume they don't have capable minds. We live in a world they built. The follow up I didn't send is to suggest using one or two "Live-CDs", which would allow them to dabble with minimum risk. As far as I know, just about most Linux distros allow you to choose your desktop and many off Live-CDs with various look and feel. I don't think I can help you with the rest of your questions as I learnt long ago to keep it simple and easy, but wish you good luck. > As I said I have two machines there, one > is wired to a big TV so they who sit in a last row can listen & > watch. Any chance of a second screen in mirror mode so you can sit and face the audience while you talk? It will flow smoother? >That one machine is Devuan Jessie 64-bit for now, Oh, it is modern. > I installed > it just for test as I never used Devuan distro before. However, I am > more experienced in Ubuntu, so I want to show them its desktop too. As I said, which desktop? I trained my user-in-chief to right click the blue screen, choose applications and so on. As far as I know, all desktops will allow you to set up icons. I just have better things to do than spend my time fixing muck ups from upgrades and dealing with "the internet is down" when firefox has just shat itself again and just needs a restart. And if they refuse to learn to walk the tree, then they can wait while i have a second cuppa to find their lost file. Just do a simple light show (KISS) and work with the more capable/interested and enable them to be teach the rest. >Btw, those comps are dual-boot with Window$ > because they are also used for other things besides Linux promotion. It seriously sounds as if your club should do some skip diving/recycling/repurposing. > There is no Internet in the club so I need exactly what software > packages need to be downloaded elsewhere and brought to the site. Do your resources extend to downloading/obtaining distribution CDs/DVDs isos and burning a copy or 2, 3, ? . That was basically how I did it in the past(when the alternative was dial-up modem downloads). The alternative is to download the needed packages onto usb stick and carry out a foreign media install. My whole approach would be to just to boot off a live-cd, say this is "Linux" and under that I can do this "(show)]repeat n and try include stuff they are interested/need in and pump; minimal virus/worm/etc chance, "free", "better", choice and so on. Questions, Questions, Question. If they get hung up on look and feel, boot on another live-cd. Good luck. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Keep em coming
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 06:54:25PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > Several of you emailed me with package name to add to the list I've > curated and the list G. Pape has curated. Here are the recent additions > from this mailing list: > > > acpid > apcupsd > apt-cacher-ng There is also apt-cacher. Mark ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
