Re: [DNG] netman: Please, do NOT use 17-Dec-2015 commit/merge
On 12/18/2015 08:42 AM, aitor_czr wrote: Hi Edward, Your repository works fine with git-buildpackage: $ git clone https://git.devuan.org/edbarx/netman.git $ rm -rf netman/.git - This is beacause git-import-orig doesn't support git meta-datas (but it supports debian meta-datas). $ mkdir pztrn (aka Stanislav N.) $ cd pztrn $ git-import-orig --pristine-tar ../netman What will be the source package name? [] netman What is the upstream version? [] 0.1.1 gbp:info: Importing '../netman_0.1.1.orig.tar.bz2' to branch 'master'... gbp:info: Source package is netman gbp:info: Upstream version is 0.1.1 pristine-tar: committed netman_0.1.1.orig.tar.bz2.delta to branch pristine-tar gbp:info: Successfully imported version 0.1.1 of ../netman_0.1.1.orig.tar.bz2 $ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area" --git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch And it works. I'm using your latest commit: (Closes: #) Cheers, Aitor. If you create previously the pristine-tar branch, then you can avoid git-import-orig: $ mkdir netman-git $ cd netman-git $ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git Cloning into 'netman'... remote: Counting objects: 80, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (73/73), done. remote: Total 80 (delta 18), reused 0 (delta 0) Unpacking objects: 100% (80/80), done. Checking connectivity... done. $ cd netman $ git checkout pristine-tar Branch pristine-tar set up to track remote branch pristine-tar from origin. Switched to a new branch 'pristine-tar' $ ls -l total 8 -rw-r--r-- 1 aitor aitor 2046 Dec 18 09:21 netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2.delta -rw-r--r-- 1 aitor aitor 41 Dec 18 09:21 netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2.id $ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2 pristine-tar: successfully generated ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2 $ git checkout gbp-master Switched to branch 'master' Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/master'. $ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area" --git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] netman: Please, do NOT use 17-Dec-2015 commit/merge
I rectify: On 12/18/2015 09:28 AM, aitor_czr wrote: $ git checkout gbp-master Switched to branch 'master' Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/master'. $ git checkout gbp-master Switched to branch 'gbp-master' Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/gbp-master'. Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Le 17/12/2015 20:21, Go Linux a écrit : Marco d'Itri's response to that post is illuminating: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00644.html "I strongly recommend that the people who cannot live with libsystemd0 installed on their systems leave Debian, because their life is going to suck more and more as we will integrate it in every important daemon after jessie will have been released." The rest of d'Itri's mail is also pretty demonstrative: he laughs at being accused of conspiracy, showing he doesn't see what he is doing. This a spectacular example of how blind people can be when they belong to a group which is in a position to dictate its choices to the others. They won't realize their fall untill they reach the ground; and, then, they will accuse the others of conspiracy. The list of 4583 packages now depending on libsysemd0 includes a lot of packages which definitely have nothing to do with it. The final lock will happen when the dependency will reach the shells and gcc. Given the fast contamination, we should expect this pretty soon. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:22:33AM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: [cut] > > The list of 4583 packages now depending on libsysemd0 includes a > lot of packages which definitely have nothing to do with it. The > final lock will happen when the dependency will reach the shells and > gcc. Given the fast contamination, we should expect this pretty > soon. > Just a simple question: how are the BSD folks dealing with those dependencies in the ports? I beliebe there will never be a running libsystemd0 under FreeBSD, for instance. It might be a good idea to "re-port" the ports back into devuan, if you see what I mean... My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and, configuring minimalism
Hi Emiliano, On 12/17/2015 02:07 PM, Emiliano Marini wrote: Thanks aitor_czr! remover --> eliminar <= synonyms xinit y iniciar --> xinit*e* iniciar <= ouch! un gestor de login*para* utilizar --> un gestor de login*que poder* utilizar <= it's badly conjugated, better use: "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login para poder utilizar durante el siguiente inicio:" or "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login para utilizar durante el siguiente inicio:" The rest is ok. Thanks again! I desagree :) EMHO (en mi humilde opinión), the right ways are: "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login para poder utilizar*lo* durante el siguiente inicio:" or "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login *que poder* utilizar durante el siguiente inicio:". The last one is well conjugated. This is: *el cual poder* utilizar (*which can be* used, in english). On the other hand, regarding the use of the verb "remover" in spanish, it has another meaning compared to "remove" in english. *To remove* something means *eliminar* algo. *Re* is a superlative in both America and Europe. For example, in Argentina *re*loco means *super*loco (very crazy). So, "remover" means to move continuously. For example: - You *can* "remove" a blod sample avoiding formation of air bubbles. - You *can* "remove" a fish soap in your kitchen. - You *can* "remove" the sugar in the coffie. It is true there is another meaning for the verb *remover*: to move something from one point to another different point. But... - You *cannot* "remove" a folder infected by systemd. - You *cannot* "remove" a user top-leveling our posts. However: - You *can* "remove"a folder infected by systemd *to the trash*. - You *can* "remove" a picture *from* the Uffizi Gallery *to* the Vittorio Emanuele Gallery. EQESDA (espero que esto sirva de ayuda) Cheers, Aitor_CZR && Pablo Neruda :) P.D.- I'm *super*pedantic, i know... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Didier Kryn wrote: >The list of 4583 packages now depending on libsystemd0 includes a >lot of packages which definitely have nothing to do with it. The final >lock will happen when the dependency will reach the shells and gcc. >Given the fast contamination, we should expect this pretty soon. I reckon when we'll have libsystemd0 as a gcc dependency, the game is over. Or either Devuan will need a huge team that will constantly rebuild packages. Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
KatolaZ wrote: >Just a simple question: how are the BSD folks dealing with those>dependencies >in the ports? I beliebe there will never be a running >libsystemd0 under FreeBSD, for instance. It might be a good idea to >"re-port" the ports back into devuan, if you see what I mean... The problem is Debian'ish. Package libsystemd0 exists here only, others have to install full systemd. Or do they have to? Package maintainers made all these dependencies; you can easily (well, not really) compile GNOME3 if you use sort of "no-systemd" flags, I believe they have this option. And also building packages on BSDs is much easier; for example in NetBSD's pkgsrc package there is a small makefile containing URL of the source code and some other small files like licence, pkgsrc deps and devs contact information. Dbus and related packages naturally don't depend on systemd. As well as previously mentioned GNOME3, they have systemd support on Linux systems but no more which basically means that configure will check for it but will not require. Regards, Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and, configuring minimalism
LOL no problem, It must be our (argentinian) dialect. That's why I said I tried to keep it neutral. First, we do use "remover" as "remove" in Argentina. Second, about "...*que poder* utilizar...", we never use that kind of conjugation in Argentina (in Latin America I dare to say), it's really strange to me :S (maybe you are from Spain?) Anyway, your corrections are welcome! Cheers, Emiliano. On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 7:46 AM, aitor_czr wrote: > Hi Emiliano, > > > On 12/17/2015 02:07 PM, Emiliano Marini > wrote: > > Thanks aitor_czr! > > > remover --> eliminar <= synonyms > > xinit y iniciar --> xinit **e** iniciar <= ouch! > > un gestor de login **para** utilizar --> un gestor de login **que poder** > utilizar <= it's badly conjugated, better use: > > "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login para > poder utilizar durante el siguiente inicio:" > > or > > "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login para > utilizar durante el siguiente inicio:" > > > The rest is ok. > > Thanks again! > > > I desagree :) > > EMHO (en mi humilde opinión), the right ways are: > > > "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login > para poder utilizar*lo* durante el siguiente inicio:" > > or > > "Si todo funciona correctamente, es posible agregar un gestor de login > *que poder* utilizar durante el siguiente inicio:". > > > The last one is well conjugated. This is: *el cual poder* utilizar > (*which can be* used, in english). > > > On the other hand, regarding the use of the verb "remover" in spanish, it > has another meaning compared to "remove" in english. *To remove* something > means *eliminar* algo. > > > *Re* is a superlative in both America and Europe. For example, in > Argentina *re*loco means *super*loco (very crazy). > > So, "remover" means to move continuously. > > For example: > > > - You *can* "remove" a blod sample avoiding formation of air bubbles. > > - You *can* "remove" a fish soap in your kitchen. > > - You *can* "remove" the sugar in the coffie. > > > It is true there is another meaning for the verb *remover*: to move > something from one point to another different point. > > > But... > > > - You *cannot* "remove" a folder infected by systemd. > > - You *cannot* "remove" a user top-leveling our posts. > > > However: > > > - You *can* "remove" a folder infected by systemd *to the trash*. > > - You *can* "remove" a picture *from* the Uffizi Gallery *to* the Vittorio > Emanuele Gallery. > > > EQESDA (espero que esto sirva de ayuda) > > Cheers, > > Aitor_CZR && Pablo Neruda :) > > > P.D.- I'm *super*pedantic, i know... > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] netman: Please, do NOT use 17-Dec-2015 commit/merge
Hi Aitor, dpkg-buildpackage succeeds to build two .deb packages but netman/.git is broken. I have a full system backup including /home from the 8th December 2015, but that would mean, losing all changes since that date. Currently, "git status" is saying: edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman-0.1.1$ ls backend.pas debianLICENSE netman.iconetwork-transmit-receive.ico backend_src formeditconnectprops.lfm mainform.lfm netman_icons.lrs network-wired-disconnected.ico backupformeditconnectprops.pas mainform.pas netman.lpiREADME common_functions.pas helpwndu.lfm Makefilenetman.lpr connect_info.lfm helpwndu.pas netman netman.lps connect_info.pas lib netman.desktop netman.res edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman-0.1.1$ git status On branch master Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 2 commits, and can be fast-forwarded. (use "git pull" to update your local branch) Changes not staged for commit: (use "git add ..." to update what will be committed) (use "git checkout -- ..." to discard changes in working directory) modified: netman.desktop modified: netman.lps Untracked files: (use "git add ..." to include in what will be committed) debian/files debian/netman-backend.debhelper.log debian/netman-backend.substvars debian/netman-backend/ debian/netman-gui.debhelper.log debian/netman-gui.substvars debian/netman-gui/ no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a") This is NOT true: those files have been already committed. I am thinking about a complete restore from the 8th December 2015 but I have serious doubts whether this is the way to go. I am too hesitant to use git without the ability to forecast the results. Edward On 18/12/2015, aitor_czr wrote: > I rectify: > > On 12/18/2015 09:28 AM, aitor_czr wrote: >> $ git checkout gbp-master >> Switched to branch 'master' >> Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/master'. > > $ git checkout gbp-master > Switched to branch 'gbp-master' > Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/gbp-master'. > > Aitor. > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Le 18/12/2015 11:55, Mitt Green a écrit : Didier Kryn wrote: The list of 4583 packages now depending on libsystemd0 includes a lot of packages which definitely have nothing to do with it. The final lock will happen when the dependency will reach the shells and gcc. Given the fast contamination, we should expect this pretty soon. I reckon when we'll have libsystemd0 as a gcc dependency, the game is over. Or either Devuan will need a huge team that will constantly rebuild packages. Mitt Sorry for spreading FUD. In fact I don't think the contamination will reach upstream. It might only be added by a zealous Debian maintainer. The best hope is that the GCC package maintainers do not accept to create such a dependency and move to Devuan if forced. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:09:46AM +, Mitt Green wrote: > > > KatolaZ wrote: > > > > >Just a simple question: how are the BSD folks dealing with > >those>dependencies in the ports? I beliebe there will never be a running > >libsystemd0 under FreeBSD, for instance. It might be a good idea to > >"re-port" the ports back into devuan, if you see what I mean... > > > The problem is Debian'ish. Package libsystemd0 exists here only, > others have to install full systemd. Or do they have to? > > Package maintainers made all these dependencies; you can easily > (well, not really) compile GNOME3 if you use sort of "no-systemd" flags, > I believe they have this option. > Sure, but you would agree that rebuilding an increasing number of infected packages in Devuan from upstream would mean a great deal of unnecessary work... HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] netman: Please, do NOT use 17-Dec-2015 commit/merge
Edward Bartolo writes: [...] > Changes not staged for commit: [...] > modified: netman.desktop > modified: netman.lps > > Untracked files: > > debian/files > debian/netman-backend.debhelper.log > debian/netman-backend.substvars > debian/netman-backend/ > debian/netman-gui.debhelper.log > debian/netman-gui.substvars > debian/netman-gui/ > > no changes added to commit (use "git add" and/or "git commit -a") > > This is NOT true: those files have been already committed. The files on the second list shouldn't be committed as they're generated by the build process. As to the first two, if git thinks they were changed and you don't, chances are that you're wrong although to opposite is also possible. Just check for changes via 'git diff' and commit them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
KatolaZ writes: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:22:33AM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > > [cut] > >> The list of 4583 packages now depending on libsysemd0 includes a >> lot of packages which definitely have nothing to do with it. The >> final lock will happen when the dependency will reach the shells and >> gcc. Given the fast contamination, we should expect this pretty >> soon. > > Just a simple question: how are the BSD folks dealing with those > dependencies in the ports? By not letting a bunch of people with some seriously strange axe to grind spuriously add them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
KatolaZ wrote: >Sure, but you would agree that rebuilding an increasing number of >infected packages in Devuan from upstream would mean a great deal of >unnecessary work... It may be unnecessary, that's why I see a couple of ways to solve it: 1) Contacting maintainers directly. This can be unfortunate considering responses from the community but at the end of the day I hope that there are some fellows that are more open to this. 2) If #1 fails, cutting Devuan to stable only, which means much less work, but also admittedly means lowering the potential user base. Many desktop users like myself prefer newer packages and sometimes it is crucial to be cutting edge. For example, if one needs latest GTK but there is only a version that is two versions behind. 3) And probably the least possible variant, rebuilding everything to newer packages and creating the new ecosystem. Thus versions of packages will be similar to Stretch/Sid but without endless revisions, without rolling release model, only kind of bug fixes, crucial bugs I mean. I reckon it would be better to create packages from upstream. The advantage is Devuan will not depend on Debian and their TC and package maintainers. Devuan will only use dpkg as the base but it means much more work though potentially expands that user base I mentioned. Trying to maintain newer package versions means more regular releases, like, let's say, once in two years. In this case I think we'll have compatibility with Testing/Unstable. Sure, these points only if systemd cluttering will reach extraordinary levels. My two pennies worth, Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Rainer Weikusat writes: A somewhat loaded "executive summary" of [Russ Allbery's] statement > could be: > "Considering that systemd was forced into Debian, I really don't see why I would want to bother was all this boring tech stuff any longer". An improbable reading given that Russ voted for systemd in the TC vote. In fact he seems to have resigned because he was pissed off with Ian Jackson's anti-systemd (pro-upstart) agitation. See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708#6729 for the TC vote: 4x D U O V F (bdale, russ, keith, don) F U D O V (steve) U D O F V (colin) F V O U D (ian) U F D O V (andi) (Duh, resend 'cos I got sender address wrong). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Didier Kryn writes:
The list of 4583 packages now depending on libsysemd0 includes a
lot of packages which definitely have nothing to do with it. The final
lock will happen when the dependency will reach the shells and gcc.
Given the fast contamination, we should expect this pretty soon.
The list is, of course, spurious.
$ cat /etc/debian_version
8.2
$ apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l
74
Even worse, this whole thread in d-u/d-d is based on a total misunderstanding by
LKCL of what libsystemd0 *is*.
It's a library whose sole purpose is to make sure that packages *don't* depend
on
systemd.
Every single function in libsystemd0 looks like:
if (init_is_systemd) {
do some systemd stuff;
}
else {
carry on as before;
}
But LKCL decided that the problem was not systemd as init, it was the presence
of packages containing the letters d, e, m, s, t and y in one particular order.
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
>It's a library whose sole purpose is to make sure that >packages *don't* depend on >systemd. So, you are saying that libsystemd0 is harmless and it doesn't mean anything unless you install systemd, systemd-sysv and so on? Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Le 18/12/2015 15:35, John Hughes a écrit :
The list is, of course, spurious.
$ cat /etc/debian_version
8.2
$ apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l
74
Sorry, my primary attitude is to believe what people write. So it's
only 74. Does it include chained dependency?
Every single function in libsystemd0 looks like:
if (init_is_systemd) {
do some systemd stuff;
}
else {
carry on as before;
}
But do they have also a libupstart0, libsysv0, etc, on which all
these 74 package depend?
Didier
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 15:50, Mitt Green wrote: It's a library whose sole purpose is to make sure that packages *don't* depend on systemd. So, you are saying that libsystemd0 is harmless and it doesn't mean anything unless you install systemd, systemd-sysv and so on? Exactly. (aargh. resending 'cos got sender address wrong *again*) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 15:54, Didier Kryn wrote:
Le 18/12/2015 15:35, John Hughes a écrit :
The list is, of course, spurious.
$ cat /etc/debian_version
8.2
$ apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l
74
Sorry, my primary attitude is to believe what people write. So
it's only 74. Does it include chained dependency?
Of course not. Why should it? LKCL's messages were about the enormous
effort needed to fix the 4000 odd packages that "depended" on
libsystemd0, when he only "needed' to modify 74 packages to get rid of
all libsystemd0 dependency.
Every single function in libsystemd0 looks like:
if (init_is_systemd) {
do some systemd stuff;
}
else {
carry on as before;
}
But do they have also a libupstart0, libsysv0, etc, on which all
these 74 package depend?
Nope. upstart and sysv-init don't provide any interesting features
beyond the simple init subset that packages might like to use. The
point of libsystemd0 is to let packages use systemd features without
depending on systemd.
Which makes LKCL's proposal of making libsystemd0 loaded by dlopen even
funnier -- to avoid depending on libsystemd0 packages would have to
include systemd specific code, or depend on a lib-not-systemd0 package.
But that package would also contain the magic word, so we'd need to
dlopen it, so either programs would include systemd specific code or
we'd have to invent a lib-not-not-systemd0 package, but that package
would...
Does the arrow ever hit the target? Does Achilles catch the tortoise?
(I hate Thunderbird -- resending 'cos idiot program chose wrong sender
address *again*)
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Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and, configuring minimalism
Hi LOL, On 18/12/15 12:13, Emiliano Marini wrote: LOL no problem, It must be our (argentinian) dialect. That's why I said I tried to keep it neutral. First, we do use "remover" as "remove" in Argentina. Second, about "...*que poder* utilizar...", we never use that kind of conjugation in Argentina (in Latin America I dare to say), it's really strange to me :S (maybe you are from Spain?) Anyway, your corrections are welcome! Cheers, Emiliano. I'm from the basque country. My deceased mother spoke only basque, but i speak both languages (spanish and basque). I am not sure about this point... *Re* means *continuity*, and also means *repeatability*. Perhaps, the following examples are right: - You *can* "remove"a folder infected by systemd *to the trash*. - You *can* "remove" a picture *from* the Uffizi Gallery *to* the Vittorio Emanuele Gallery. But they are not used in Spain, because the meaning of "remover" in Spain is "eliminar". - A picture of "El Veronés" today is in a concret Gallery, but tomorrow is in another Gallery. - A folder infected by systemd today is in a concret path, but tomorrow is in another path. This is the repetibility of the action "to move" :) NOW: @english_speakers Don't use *re*user root password, instead of *super*user root password :) Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
John Hughes writes: > Rainer Weikusat writes: >> A somewhat loaded "executive summary" of [Russ Allbery's] statement >> could be: "Considering that systemd was forced into Debian, I >> really don't see why I would want to bother was all this boring tech >> stuff any longer". > > An improbable reading given that Russ voted for systemd in the TC > vote. I didn't mean to imply that he was opposed to the descision (which obviously doesn't make any sense since he wasn't). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Mitt Green writes:
>>It's a library whose sole purpose is to make sure that
>>packages *don't* depend on
>>systemd.
>
> So, you are saying that libsystemd0 is harmless and it
> doesn't mean anything unless you install systemd, systemd-sysv and so
> on?
If you look at
,
| if (init_is_systemd) {
|do some systemd stuff;
| }
| else {
|carry on as before;
| }
`
you'll note that the
if (init_is_systemd) {
do some systemd stuff;
} else {
/* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
}
is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Hi John, On 18/12/15 16:18, John Hughes wrote: (I hate Thunderbird -- resending 'cos idiot program chose wrong sender address*again*) I use ManJaro Mail :) Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
John Hughes writes: In fact he seems to have resigned because he was pissed off with Ian Jackson's anti-systemd (pro-upstart) agitation. Rumour had it that he was offgepissed about the manner of discourse, both in Debian generally at the time and in particular in the systemd discussion. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 16:25, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
If you look at
,
| if (init_is_systemd) {
|do some systemd stuff;
| }
| else {
|carry on as before;
| }
`
you'll note that the
if (init_is_systemd) {
do some systemd stuff;
} else {
/* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
}
is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for libsystemd0.
I can understand people not liking systemd, but why criticize it for
things it doesn't do?
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
>is nothing but "systemd support code added to some >package". If it is so, why there is so much hype about it? I previously thought that Devuan aim was to remove *any* of systemd components. Does that mean that we *should* care of this dependency? As far as I see libsystemd0 is only a shared library. Why should it provide features that I don't use? It's like buying a pick-up lorry to drive it in an urban area. Then why pushing it everywhere where it is unnecessary? Let then people decide whether to use it or not. The same thing applies to libpulse and libselinux. May gods bless this packaging system. Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 16:51, Mitt Green wrote: is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package". If it is so, why there is so much hype about it? Hype about what? libsystemd0? The only "hype" about libsystemd0 was from LKCL who came up with a strange plan to remove it by replacing libsystemd0 by a library that would dynamically load libsystemd0, probably called lib-not-quite-libsystemd0. I previously thought that Devuan aim was to remove *any* of systemd components. Funny, I thought Devuan was about choice. As far as I see libsystemd0 is only a shared library. Why should it provide features that I don't use? It's like buying a pick-up lorry to drive it in an urban area. libsystemd0 is a trailer hitch -- it's up to you if you want to hook up the trailer. Then why pushing it everywhere where it is unnecessary? Let then people decide whether to use it or not. If libsystemd0 is not present people don't get a free choice -- they can't use some systemd features. The same thing applies to libpulse and libselinux. Just like libsystemd0 they do nothing if pulseaudio or selinux are not installed. May gods bless this packaging system. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
John Hughes wrote: >The only "hype" about libsystemd0 was >from LKCL who came up with a strange plan to remove it by replacing >libsystemd0 by a library that would dynamically load libsystemd0, >probably called lib-not-quite-libsystemd0. No, the actual work on packages that remove libsystemd0 dependency. I've done quite of it for my machine. Notable examples include angband repositories apart from Devuan's own. Adam made a big base removing the dependency. Systemd dependency itself is not big, only things related to its development, dbus-user-session and init system. >Funny, I thought Devuan was about choice. A choice not to use systemd at all. Cheers, Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Not getting your emails
Go Linux wrote: >Just a heads up. None of your emails are coming through. Not even in spam. I >>only know that you've posted when I see quotes in the responses. I have a >>yahoo address for this list and it has been a problem for me too. The same thing about you: once you wrote to "Our friendly communinty" I didn't get your email. You are not in my spam folder either. Mine is yahoo too as you see. Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
John Hughes writes:
> On 18/12/15 16:25, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> If you look at
>>
>> ,
>> | if (init_is_systemd) {
>> |do some systemd stuff;
>> | }
>> | else {
>> |carry on as before;
>> | }
>> `
>>
>> you'll note that the
>>
>> if (init_is_systemd)F {
>> do some systemd stuff;
>> } else {
>> /* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
>> }
>>
>> is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
>
> Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for
> libsystemd0.
That's not really surprising as there is no source for
'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd,
https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0
and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either.
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 17:18, Mitt Green wrote: No, the actual work on packages that remove libsystemd0 dependency. I've done quite of it for my machine. Notable examples include angband repositories apart from Devuan's own. Adam made a big base removing the dependency. But why? What badness does libsystemd0 do? I can understand working on replacements for libpam-systemd, that is a big problem for people who don't want systemd, but libsystemd0 seems pretty benign. Funny, I thought Devuan was about choice. A choice not to use systemd at all. If I wanted to I could run Debian without systemd. Some things wouldn't work, but as I understand it those things don't work on Devuan either. What more choice does Devuan give me? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 17:27, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
John Hughes writes:
Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for
libsystemd0.
That's not really surprising as there is no source for
'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd,
https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0
and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either.
You were implicitly claiming that libsystemd would produce errors if
systemd was installed. I was, perhaps flippantly, noting that it doesn't.
You are right, libsystemd0 is made from the same source package as
systemd, but so what? The source is available, look in the
src/libsystemd directory.
public_ int sd_listen_fds(int unset_environment) {
const char *e;
unsigned n;
int r, fd;
pid_t pid;
e = getenv("LISTEN_PID");
if (!e) {
r = 0;
goto finish;
}
If "LISTEN_PID" is not set then we're not started by inetd, not systemd,
so the first and only input device is stdin, just like always. (By the
way, I think the interface for this function is pretty shitty, it could
simplify the caller if in the inetd case it dup'ed stdin to
SD_LISTEN_FDS_START and then everyone could pretend they were being
started by systemd, but I expect that would have caused bigger howls of
outrage).
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 17:54, John Hughes wrote: You were implicitly claiming that libsystemd would produce errors if systemd was installed. I was, perhaps flippantly, noting that it doesn't. Duh, systemd *wasn't* installed, I meant. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
John Hughes wrote: >But why? What badness does libsystemd0 do? A simple principle: let the end user decide what he is going to run. Why maintainers push libsystemd0 dependency when they can forget it. Compare: Xfce devs (package maintainers) never required systemd to run, Mate maintainers require it for mate-session-manager and a screensaver. There is no use for it. When you can live without it, why pushing? I clearly understand your point that libsystemd0 is maybe pretty much useless. Let me go for a fallacy: when dbus or selinux or pulseaudio appeared, noone would care if they do be having libpulse, libselinux or dbus on their machine, noone have made a "Debian without pulse" and so on. >If I wanted to I could run Debian without systemd. Some things wouldn't >work, but as I understand it those things don't work on Devuan either. >What more choice does Devuan give me? Devuan works the same way that Debian does. Well, old Debian, like Squeeze. These ~70 packages that depend on *this* are pretty easy to rebuild even GNOME3, I still don't why Devuan is only in its alpha, this work could be done a year ago.Having a working Unstable installation I would say it should be in beta at least. The only thing that remains is vdev. Even though someone wrote on Wikipedia that Devuan provides systemd but as an optional (init?), it's far from true. It is more freedom of systemd as I said, considering devuan-baseconf package. Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
John Hughes writes: > On 18/12/15 17:27, Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> John Hughes writes: >> >>> >>> Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for >>> libsystemd0. >> That's not really surprising as there is no source for >> 'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd, >> >> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0 >> >> and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either. > > You were implicitly claiming that That was just a nonsensical assumption you made. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 05:06:43PM +0100, John Hughes wrote: > On 18/12/15 16:51, Mitt Green wrote: > > > I previously thought that Devuan aim was to remove > >*any* of systemd components. > > Funny, I thought Devuan was about choice. Indeed, both are true. Devuan is about choice. Since Debian is quite clearly providing the allternative of using systemd, the main effort here is to provide tha lternative of not using systemd. The main part of that effort is to remove systemd. I think there are no serious objections to making systemd truly optional, except for the severe limitation of manpower. That trumps everything, and we leave the option of using systemd for Debian to work on. That's how I see it. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On 18/12/15 18:06, Hendrik Boom wrote: Indeed, both are true. Devuan is about choice. Since Debian is quite clearly providing the alternative of using systemd, And the alternative of *not* using systemd. the main effort here is to provide the alternative of not using systemd. The main part of that effort is to remove systemd. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation What more needs to be done? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, 12/18/15, John Hughes wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] Our friendly community To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Friday, December 18, 2015, 11:27 AM On 18/12/15 18:06, Hendrik Boom wrote: > Indeed, both are true. Devuan is about choice. Since Debian is quite > clearly providing the alternative of using systemd, And the alternative of *not* using systemd. > the main effort here is to provide the alternative of not using systemd. > The main part of that effort is to remove systemd. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation What more needs to be done? Why is anyone feeding this troll??? golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:22:33 +0100 Didier Kryn wrote: > > "I strongly recommend that the people who cannot live with > > libsystemd0 installed on their systems leave Debian, because their > > life is going to suck more and more as we will integrate it in > > every important daemon after jessie will have been released." > > The rest of d'Itri's mail is also pretty demonstrative: he > laughs at being accused of conspiracy, showing he doesn't see what he > is doing. This a spectacular example of how blind people can be when > they belong to a group which is in a position to dictate its choices > to the others. They won't realize their fall untill they reach the > ground; and, then, they will accuse the others of conspiracy. Can somebody who still has posting privileges on debian-user please write a friendly email that, for those who are considering leaving Debian, either because they don't want gratuitous libsystemd0 dependencies, or they don't want to deal with cavalier attitudes, Devuan is a great place to continue their computer activities and development? It would be a horrible waste if people exiting Debian slithered into the night instead of coming to Devuan. Unfortunately, I'm unable to post such an email myself (Don Armstrong saw to that.). SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:37:56 +0300 Mitt Green wrote: > KatolaZ wrote: > > >Sure, but you would agree that rebuilding an increasing number of > >infected packages in Devuan from upstream would mean a great deal of > >unnecessary work... > > > It may be unnecessary, that's why I see a couple of ways to solve it: > > 1) Contacting maintainers directly. This can be unfortunate > considering responses from the community but at the end of the day > I hope that there are some fellows that are more open to this. > > 2) If #1 fails, cutting Devuan to stable only, which means much less > work, but also admittedly means lowering the potential user base. Many > desktop users like myself prefer newer packages and sometimes it is > crucial to be cutting edge. For example, if one needs latest GTK but > there is only a version that is two versions behind. I wouldn't worry too much about any of this, because if we don't hurry up and put out a production Devuan, the future will be a moot point. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 04:27:32PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> >> you'll note that the
> >>
> >> if (init_is_systemd)F {
> >>do some systemd stuff;
> >> } else {
> >>/* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
> >> }
> >>
> >> is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
> >
> > Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for
> > libsystemd0.
>
> That's not really surprising as there is no source for
> 'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd,
>
> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0
>
> and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either.
That was pseudo-code. The real function name is sd_booted().
--
Tomasz Torcz Morality must always be based on practicality.
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl-- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen
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[DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:51:02 +0300 Mitt Green wrote: > >is nothing but "systemd support code added to some > >package". > > If it is so, why there is so much hype about it? > I previously thought that Devuan aim was to remove > *any* of systemd components. I think this is settled law, settled on our mailing list many months ago. Here's how I remember the consensus during that discussion... Yeah, in an ideal world, we'd like to remove every rotting vestige of systemd, but in a practical world, where if we don't timely produce something people can actually use, this has all been for naught, removal is a process, where on the first go-around we remove systemd as PID1 and the process supervisor, put it out there, and then, with the influx of devs and testers that are sure to follow, continue removing systemd-isms as fast as we can, hopefully someday getting to the point where we can remove them just weeks after the obfuscationists put them in. Does that sound like the goal the rest of you remember? Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Tomasz Torcz writes:
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 04:27:32PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> >> you'll note that the
>> >>
>> >> if (init_is_systemd)F {
>> >> do some systemd stuff;
>> >> } else {
>> >> /* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
>> >> }
>> >>
>> >> is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
>> >
>> > Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for
>> > libsystemd0.
>>
>> That's not really surprising as there is no source for
>> 'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd,
>>
>> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0
>>
>> and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either.
>
> That was pseudo-code.
"Ach nein".
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:06:43 +0100 John Hughes wrote: > > I previously thought that Devuan aim was to remove > > *any* of systemd components. > > Funny, I thought Devuan was about choice. Yes and no. This was discussed several months ago. A huge priority of Devuan is to allow choice. However, because each systemd-ism tends to restrict choice, Devuan has decided to simply throw away the systemd-ism if a) It requires work to fit in, or b) it hinders any kinds of other choices users might make. Also there's this: Read the front page of devuan.org and read this: "We are working towards a stable, production ready fork of Debian Jessie, free from the entangling web of dependencies imposed by systemd." It's clear that, although choice is a huge priority, systemd is and has always been and will always be a special case. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Rainer Weikusat writes:
> Tomasz Torcz writes:
>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 04:27:32PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>>> >> you'll note that the
>>> >>
>>> >> if (init_is_systemd)F {
>>> >> do some systemd stuff;
>>> >> } else {
>>> >> /* syslog(LOG_EMERG, "ESYADMINDEPRECATED!!!"); */
>>> >> }
>>> >>
>>> >> is nothing but "systemd support code added to some package".
>>> >
>>> > Can't find the string "ESYADMINDEPRECATED" in the source for
>>> > libsystemd0.
>>>
>>> That's not really surprising as there is no source for
>>> 'libsystemd0'. It's a part of systemd,
>>>
>>> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsystemd0
>>>
>>> and the source of that doesn't contain 'if (init_is_systemd)' either.
>>
>> That was pseudo-code.
>
> "Ach nein".
Addition: Google translates this to "Oh no". But it's actually "Really?
Who da thunk!" or something like that.
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Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:39:26 +0100 John Hughes wrote: > On 18/12/15 17:18, Mitt Green wrote: > > > > No, the actual work on packages that remove libsystemd0 dependency. > > I've done quite of it for my machine. Notable examples include > > angband repositories apart from Devuan's own. Adam made a big > > base removing the dependency. > > But why? What badness does libsystemd0 do? I don't know. Here's what I do know. Before 12/18/2015 (today), not one single email from "John Hughes" has been posted to dng@lists.dyne.org. Today (12/18/2015), there have been 10 (and counting) "John Hughes" emails, most of which tended to say "libsystemd0 isn't that bad", and one of which seemed to say that you need remove systemd dependencies only from *direct* systemdlib0 dependencies, and not the sub-dependencies, and that makes no sense to me at all. When Katolaz says something, I listen. He has a > 8 month pattern and practice of saying correct, informative, and constructive stuff. Ditto for GoLinux, Anto, Didier, Hendrik, Jaromil, Joel Roth, Jude, Laurent, Renaud, Svante, and many, many others. But when I hear "John Hughes" post several "libsystemd0 isn't that bad" posts on his very first day, well, Mr. Hughes' credibility descends. And when his credibility descends, one must consider the possibility that he's here only to stir up conflict. It's been tried before, and it works very poorly on this list. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Steve Litt writes: > On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:39:26 +0100 > John Hughes wrote: > >> On 18/12/15 17:18, Mitt Green wrote: >> > >> > No, the actual work on packages that remove libsystemd0 dependency. >> > I've done quite of it for my machine. Notable examples include >> > angband repositories apart from Devuan's own. Adam made a big >> > base removing the dependency. >> >> But why? What badness does libsystemd0 do? > > I don't know. > > Here's what I do know. Before 12/18/2015 (today), not one single email > from "John Hughes" has been posted to dng@lists.dyne.org. Today > (12/18/2015), there have been 10 (and counting) "John Hughes" emails, > most of which tended to say "libsystemd0 isn't that bad", Assuming systemd is regarded as 'bad' (the term all kinds of connotations I'd rather avoid in this context), then, libsystemd0 is the very rotten heart of the badness[*] as it's the glue code enabling applications to be modified such that they depend on systemd APIs despite the implementation which is part of the "process-list visible systemd" can't be used. Instead, an alternate implementation of the systemd facilities more well-hidden in a shared library will be supplanted. [*] Jospeh Conrad allusion entirely intentional. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Not getting your emails
2015-12-18 17:21 GMT+01:00, Mitt Green : > Go Linux wrote: > >>Just a heads up. None of your emails are coming through. Not even in spam. >> I >only know that you've posted when I see quotes in the responses. I >> have a >yahoo address for this list and it has been a problem for me too. > > The same thing about you: once you wrote to "Our friendly communinty" I > didn't > get your email. You are not in my spam folder either. Mine is yahoo too > as you see. > > > Mitt I have got both of you in spam since ages. Gmail filters do nothing to help that. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
Steve Litt wrote on 19/12/15 04:17: On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:22:33 +0100 Didier Kryn wrote: "I strongly recommend that the people who cannot live with libsystemd0 installed on their systems leave Debian, because their life is going to suck more and more as we will integrate it in every important daemon after jessie will have been released." The rest of d'Itri's mail is also pretty demonstrative: he laughs at being accused of conspiracy, showing he doesn't see what he is doing. This a spectacular example of how blind people can be when they belong to a group which is in a position to dictate its choices to the others. They won't realize their fall untill they reach the ground; and, then, they will accuse the others of conspiracy. Can somebody who still has posting privileges on debian-user please write a friendly email that, for those who are considering leaving Debian, either because they don't want gratuitous libsystemd0 dependencies, or they don't want to deal with cavalier attitudes, Devuan is a great place to continue their computer activities and development? It would be a horrible waste if people exiting Debian slithered into the night instead of coming to Devuan. Unfortunately, I'm unable to post such an email myself (Don Armstrong saw to that.). SteveT Hi, I might consider it or could just post with a signature that gave a URL to a systemd-free site. What would be the best URL to use? Arthur. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Our friendly community
On Fri, 12/18/15, Arthur Marsh wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] Our friendly community To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Friday, December 18, 2015, 9:08 PM Steve Litt wrote on 19/12/15 04:17: > On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:22:33 +0100 > Didier Kryn wrote: > >>> "I strongly recommend that the people who cannot live with >>> libsystemd0 installed on their systems leave Debian, because their >>> life is going to suck more and more as we will integrate it in >>> every important daemon after jessie will have been released." >> >> The rest of d'Itri's mail is also pretty demonstrative: he >> laughs at being accused of conspiracy, showing he doesn't see what he >> is doing. This a spectacular example of how blind people can be when >> they belong to a group which is in a position to dictate its choices >> to the others. They won't realize their fall untill they reach the >> ground; and, then, they will accuse the others of conspiracy. > > Can somebody who still has posting privileges on debian-user please > write a friendly email that, for those who are considering leaving > Debian, either because they don't want gratuitous libsystemd0 > dependencies, or they don't want to deal with cavalier attitudes, Devuan > is a great place to continue their computer activities and development? > > It would be a horrible waste if people exiting Debian slithered into > the night instead of coming to Devuan. > > Unfortunately, I'm unable to post such an email myself (Don Armstrong > saw to that.). > > SteveT Hi, I might consider it or could just post with a signature that gave a URL to a systemd-free site. What would be the best URL to use? Arthur. Might be best to wait until the beta is released. Jaromil will likely be posting a press release and email announcement that would be a perfect invitation. golinux. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Local netman sources fully restored.
Hi All, Finally, I fully restored my local netman sources from a full system backup I made on the 8th December 2015. Updating was a matter of only deleting the netman/debian directory and using "git pull". My goal was always to use the least invasive of methods to recover my sources. This was why I was very cautious about using any git command that would impact the uploaded sources. This experience is shouting at me to always keep a backup whenever I git push. The terminal text output of the procedure is shown below. --- edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman_from_backup_08.12.2015$ rm -rf debian edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman_from_backup_08.12.2015$ ls backend.pas helpwndu.lfm netman_icons.lrs backend_src helpwndu.pas netman.lpi backuplib netman.lpr common_functions.pas LICENSE netman.lps connect_info.lfm mainform.lfm netman.res connect_info.pas mainform.pas network-transmit-receive.ico formeditconnectprops.lfm Makefile network-wired-disconnected.ico formeditconnectprops.pas netman.icoREADME edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman_from_backup_08.12.2015$ git status On branch master Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/master'. nothing to commit, working directory clean edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman_from_backup_08.12.2015$ git pull remote: Counting objects: 40, done. remote: Compressing objects: 100% (33/33), done. remote: Total 40 (delta 15), reused 0 (delta 0) Unpacking objects: 100% (40/40), done. From git.devuan.org:edbarx/netman 5f010d7..85ee69e master -> origin/master Updating 5f010d7..85ee69e Fast-forward README | 3 +- debian/README.Debian | 6 +++ debian/README.source | 10 debian/changelog | 5 ++ debian/compat | 1 + debian/control | 25 + debian/copyright | 25 + debian/docs| 1 + debian/netman-backend.install | 1 + debian/netman-backend.postinst | 19 +++ debian/netman-gui.install | 3 ++ debian/netman-gui.postinst | 38 ++ debian/netman.substvars| 1 + debian/rules | 13 + debian/source/format | 1 + debian/source/include-binaries | 2 + netman.desktop | 10 netman.lps | 116 + 18 files changed, 234 insertions(+), 46 deletions(-) create mode 100644 debian/README.Debian create mode 100644 debian/README.source create mode 100644 debian/changelog create mode 100644 debian/compat create mode 100644 debian/control create mode 100644 debian/copyright create mode 100644 debian/docs create mode 100644 debian/netman-backend.install create mode 100644 debian/netman-backend.postinst create mode 100644 debian/netman-gui.install create mode 100644 debian/netman-gui.postinst create mode 100644 debian/netman.substvars create mode 100755 debian/rules create mode 100644 debian/source/format create mode 100644 debian/source/include-binaries create mode 100644 netman.desktop edbarx@edbarx-pc:~/netman_from_backup_08.12.2015$ git status On branch master Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/master'. nothing to commit, working directory clean --- Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
