Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI shaft seal

[Bill Coleman]

Has anyone ever seen a Silicone bellows, or similar that could be used for
this?

I am a big fan of silicone hose, and have seen short connectors on
powerboats with a pleat in the middle, but not multiple pleats. I have also
seen a picture of a silicone (I think) bellows on European boat.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:24 AM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a
PYI shaft seal

 

The usual method is to use longer bolts in the coupler with a good solid
socket in the middle. As you tighten the coupler on the shaft up to the
other half the socket pushes the shaft out. If that doesn't work, it's
usually cut-off wheel time. 

A better penetrating oil than PB Blaster is a 50/50 mix of ATF (automatic
transmission fluid) and acetone. 

 

On 11 November 2013 07:44, Joel Aronson  wrote:

Eric,

 

IF PB Blaster doesn't work, you might try heat on the coupler.  Get two pipe
wrenches - shaft and coupler.  Heat and twist.  

If that fails, use a gear puller or make one with a small piece of 1/4 inch
thick metal, drill holes to match the coupler and a threaded center hole for
a decent size bolt.  Bolt the plate to the coupler and use the center bolt
to push the shaft out.  

 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Eric Frank  wrote:

Thanks to the list's advice last week about getting the bolts loose on the
universal to shaft coupling, I got them all out with an impact wrench.
Worked beautifully. But now I am stuck again getting the shaft coupling off
the prop shaft.  Removed the bolts that grip the coupling to the shaft and
also a square-headed bolt in the coupling that probably fits into a keyway
in the shaft, but I can't break the shaft loose from the coupling.  I tried
holding the coupling from turning with a pipe wrench and trying to turn the
prop shaft (by gripping the sacrificial zinc on the shaft with a big vice
grips so as not to damage the shaft itself), but it didn't budge.  And of
course I don't want to damage anything.

One possibility would be to slide the shaft as far aft as possible (since it
is disconnected from the universal and the SS PYI piece (that acts as the
bearing up against the bellows) that is on the shaft slides forward on the
shaft) and then get a small wheel puller on the coupling so it would push
the shaft out of the coupling.  I have no experience with wheel pullers but
it seems that it might work.

But I would really value input from the list about how to proceed.
Apparently the salt water leaking around the bellows this summer rusted the
coupler sufficiently that it is really stuck.

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551   


___
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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

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Stus-List winterizing engine

[David Knecht]

I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time with the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose off the seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through until pink came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off and find a place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be pouring while someone else watches the rear.  At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel that hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in without taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don’t think there is room above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to allow pouring.  All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is to find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be pushed into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent seal, then stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I can sit the bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against gravity from the ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just start the engine and run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink stuff and the level in the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler and in theory can be done single handed.  The key would be finding the correct hose size to fit snugly.  Has anyone tried this or have a reason why it should not work?    Thanks- Dave
David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Rich Knowles]

The easiest solution I have installed is to put a barbed tee fitting in the sea 
water intake line with a length of hose with a shut off valve on the empty 
barb. To run antifreeze through, simply close the seawater intake, open the 
valve on the new piece of hose and put the end of the hose in a bucket. Most 
small diesels will swallow up about two gallons. The tee can be installed 
anywhere in the line convenient. 

Rich

> On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:47, David Knecht  wrote:
> 
> I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time 
> with the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose off 
> the seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through until 
> pink came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off and 
> find a place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be 
> pouring while someone else watches the rear.  
> At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel 
> that hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in 
> without taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don’t think 
> there is room above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to 
> allow pouring.  
> All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is 
> to find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be 
> pushed into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent 
> seal, then stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I 
> can sit the bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against 
> gravity from the ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just 
> start the engine and run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink 
> stuff and the level in the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler 
> and in theory can be done single handed.  The key would be finding the 
> correct hose size to fit snugly.  Has anyone tried this or have a reason why 
> it should not work?Thanks- Dave
> 
> 
> David Knecht
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI shaft seal

[Rich Knowles]

PYI must have considered this..?

Rich

> On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:43, "Bill Coleman"  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a Silicone bellows, or similar that could be used for 
> this?
> I am a big fan of silicone hose, and have seen short connectors on powerboats 
> with a pleat in the middle, but not multiple pleats. I have also seen a 
> picture of a silicone (I think) bellows on European boat.
>  
> Bill Coleman
> C&C 39 
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:24 AM
> To: 1 CnC List
> Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI 
> shaft seal
>  
> The usual method is to use longer bolts in the coupler with a good solid 
> socket in the middle. As you tighten the coupler on the shaft up to the other 
> half the socket pushes the shaft out. If that doesn't work, it's usually 
> cut-off wheel time.
> A better penetrating oil than PB Blaster is a 50/50 mix of ATF (automatic 
> transmission fluid) and acetone.
>  
> 
> On 11 November 2013 07:44, Joel Aronson  wrote:
> Eric,
>  
> IF PB Blaster doesn't work, you might try heat on the coupler.  Get two pipe 
> wrenches - shaft and coupler.  Heat and twist.  
> If that fails, use a gear puller or make one with a small piece of 1/4 inch 
> thick metal, drill holes to match the coupler and a threaded center hole for 
> a decent size bolt.  Bolt the plate to the coupler and use the center bolt to 
> push the shaft out.  
>  
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis
>  
> 
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Eric Frank  wrote:
> Thanks to the list's advice last week about getting the bolts loose on the 
> universal to shaft coupling, I got them all out with an impact wrench.  
> Worked beautifully. But now I am stuck again getting the shaft coupling off 
> the prop shaft.  Removed the bolts that grip the coupling to the shaft and 
> also a square-headed bolt in the coupling that probably fits into a keyway in 
> the shaft, but I can't break the shaft loose from the coupling.  I tried 
> holding the coupling from turning with a pipe wrench and trying to turn the 
> prop shaft (by gripping the sacrificial zinc on the shaft with a big vice 
> grips so as not to damage the shaft itself), but it didn't budge.  And of 
> course I don't want to damage anything.
> 
> One possibility would be to slide the shaft as far aft as possible (since it 
> is disconnected from the universal and the SS PYI piece (that acts as the 
> bearing up against the bellows) that is on the shaft slides forward on the 
> shaft) and then get a small wheel puller on the coupling so it would push the 
> shaft out of the coupling.  I have no experience with wheel pullers but it 
> seems that it might work.
> 
> But I would really value input from the list about how to proceed.  
> Apparently the salt water leaking around the bellows this summer rusted the 
> coupler sufficiently that it is really stuck.
> 
> Eric Frank
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Greg Sutherland]

Hey David I cut the raw water hose just after the shut off and installed 
another tee fitting with its own shut off. From that I have another Hose that 
can draw directly from the antifreeze container. Its about 6' long. Now I just 
shut off the raw water at the hull, start the engine with the new hose in the 
antifreeze and open the second valve. Once I see the fluid coming out of the 
exhaust, I shut it down. All done. Took me 5 minutes or so. Because the new 
shut off and hose are installed in line but before the strainer, in an 
emergency it can be used as another bilge pump.

Hope this helps,

Greg
87 - 33-2.
Halifax
From: David Knecht
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:47 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List winterizing engine


I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time with 
the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose off the 
seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through until pink 
came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off and find a 
place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be pouring while 
someone else watches the rear.
At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel that 
hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in without 
taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don’t think there is room 
above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to allow pouring.
All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is to 
find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be pushed 
into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent seal, then 
stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I can sit the 
bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against gravity from the 
ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just start the engine and 
run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink stuff and the level in 
the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler and in theory can be done 
single handed.  The key would be finding the correct hose size to fit snugly.  
Has anyone tried this or have a reason why it should not work?Thanks- Dave


David Knecht
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Bill Coleman]

I have seen that done, so it must work.

Two other suggestions, 

Replace your hose with a Silicone hose, ( I said I was a fan), these come
right off and have no memory, kind of like me.

Or, What I did was buy an extra plastic lid for my Groco Strainer, the put a
hole in the middle and put a hose adapter into it. Screw a short hose on it,
then I poke a funnel into the hose.  I start my engine, go below and pour ¾
of a gallon of antifreeze then turn the engine off.  

5 gallons, are you serial?  I don’t use that much to winterize my whole
boat!

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David
Knecht
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:47 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Subject: Stus-List winterizing engine

 

I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time
with the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose
off the seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through
until pink came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off
and find a place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be
pouring while someone else watches the rear.  

At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel
that hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in
without taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don’t think
there is room above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to
allow pouring.  

All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is
to find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be
pushed into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent
seal, then stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I
can sit the bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against
gravity from the ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just
start the engine and run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink
stuff and the level in the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler
and in theory can be done single handed.  The key would be finding the
correct hose size to fit snugly.  Has anyone tried this or have a reason why
it should not work?Thanks- Dave

 

 

David Knecht

Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

<><>___
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http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI shaft seal

[Bill Coleman]

You would think, but I don't see it on their site, just the rubber one.

Besides, if they did, it would ruin their aftermarket for replacements!

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a
PYI shaft seal

 

PYI must have considered this..?

Rich


On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:43, "Bill Coleman"  wrote:

Has anyone ever seen a Silicone bellows, or similar that could be used for
this?

I am a big fan of silicone hose, and have seen short connectors on
powerboats with a pleat in the middle, but not multiple pleats. I have also
seen a picture of a silicone (I think) bellows on European boat.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:24 AM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a
PYI shaft seal

 

The usual method is to use longer bolts in the coupler with a good solid
socket in the middle. As you tighten the coupler on the shaft up to the
other half the socket pushes the shaft out. If that doesn't work, it's
usually cut-off wheel time. 

A better penetrating oil than PB Blaster is a 50/50 mix of ATF (automatic
transmission fluid) and acetone. 

 

On 11 November 2013 07:44, Joel Aronson  wrote:

Eric,

 

IF PB Blaster doesn't work, you might try heat on the coupler.  Get two pipe
wrenches - shaft and coupler.  Heat and twist.  

If that fails, use a gear puller or make one with a small piece of 1/4 inch
thick metal, drill holes to match the coupler and a threaded center hole for
a decent size bolt.  Bolt the plate to the coupler and use the center bolt
to push the shaft out.  

 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Eric Frank  wrote:

Thanks to the list's advice last week about getting the bolts loose on the
universal to shaft coupling, I got them all out with an impact wrench.
Worked beautifully. But now I am stuck again getting the shaft coupling off
the prop shaft.  Removed the bolts that grip the coupling to the shaft and
also a square-headed bolt in the coupling that probably fits into a keyway
in the shaft, but I can't break the shaft loose from the coupling.  I tried
holding the coupling from turning with a pipe wrench and trying to turn the
prop shaft (by gripping the sacrificial zinc on the shaft with a big vice
grips so as not to damage the shaft itself), but it didn't budge.  And of
course I don't want to damage anything.

One possibility would be to slide the shaft as far aft as possible (since it
is disconnected from the universal and the SS PYI piece (that acts as the
bearing up against the bellows) that is on the shaft slides forward on the
shaft) and then get a small wheel puller on the coupling so it would push
the shaft out of the coupling.  I have no experience with wheel pullers but
it seems that it might work.

But I would really value input from the list about how to proceed.
Apparently the salt water leaking around the bellows this summer rusted the
coupler sufficiently that it is really stuck.

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


___
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com





 

-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551   


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com




-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

___
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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[dwight veinot]

David

Here's what I do with my M4-30.

Take the raw water hose off at the pump end (one clamp).  Install another
section of hose (about 4 feet long) to the pump and run that to a bucket on
the cabin sole.  Fill the bucket with fresh water and start the engine.
Keep the bucket as full as possible while the engine is running by emptying
the contents of your fresh water tanks (they need to be emptied anyway so
why not use the water) into it from your galley faucet(or keep it full from
a garden hose attached to a fresh water supply).  That will flush your
pump, all connecting lines, heat exchanger and muffler with lots of fresh
water. Stop the engine and empty the bucket.  Pour 1 full 4 liter jug of
antifreeze concentrate into bucket. Fill the empty 4 liter jug with more
fresh water and add that fresh water to the concentrate in the bucket and
mix to give you 8 liters of a 50/50 mix.  Fill the empty 4 liter jug with 4
liters of the 50/50 mix and save for other jobs, like the head or bilge or
just save it til next year because you will be able to do your cooling
system quite well with 4 liters in total of 50/50 mix. Put the hose which
is attached to the pump into the bucket and make sure it touches the
bottom.  Start the engine and watch for the color change at the exhaust
outlet, let it run a few seconds and stop the engine.  Most of the 4 liters
that was in the bucket should be gone.  Leave the hose attached to the pump
until next spring and support it's open end above the pump.  That way your
pump will be full of the mix and your pump impellor will spend the winter
surrounded by a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water so the rubber blades will
have a better change of not becoming brittle.

I assume you have a heat exchanger on your engine simialr to mine, but even
if not you could still use this procedure but a raw water cooled engine
will take more antifreeze mixture.  I like the idea of a thorough fresh
water flush before winterizing with antifreeze.  I always change the engine
oil and filter before winterizing so my engine runs for about half an hour
on the fresh oil before the long winter rest.  Our temps can go down to
-20C... I have never had a problem.

Dwight

Dwight Veinot
Alianna
C&C 35 MKII
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:47 AM, David Knecht wrote:

> I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time
> with the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose
> off the seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through
> until pink came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose
> off and find a place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can
> be pouring while someone else watches the rear.
> At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel
> that hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in
> without taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don’t think
> there is room above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to
> allow pouring.
> All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought
> is to find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be
> pushed into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent
> seal, then stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I
> can sit the bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against
> gravity from the ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just
> start the engine and run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for
> pink stuff and the level in the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much
> simpler and in theory can be done single handed.  The key would be finding
> the correct hose size to fit snugly.  Has anyone tried this or have a
> reason why it should not work?Thanks- Dave
>
>
> David Knecht
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI shaft seal

[Della Barba, Joe]

My PYI bellows made it from 1988 to 2012 without issue. The face seal was a bit 
worn after all those hours though. I looked into getting a "normal" stuffing 
box but they did not have my size anymore, so I have a new PYI now. The spring 
in the hose is very important - you can't just use normal hose!

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:15 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI 
shaft seal

You would think, but I don't see it on their site, just the rubber one.
Besides, if they did, it would ruin their aftermarket for replacements!

Bill Coleman
C&C 39

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI 
shaft seal

PYI must have considered this..?

Rich

On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:43, "Bill Coleman" 
mailto:colt...@verizon.net>> wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a Silicone bellows, or similar that could be used for this?
I am a big fan of silicone hose, and have seen short connectors on powerboats 
with a pleat in the middle, but not multiple pleats. I have also seen a picture 
of a silicone (I think) bellows on European boat.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:24 AM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI 
shaft seal

The usual method is to use longer bolts in the coupler with a good solid socket 
in the middle. As you tighten the coupler on the shaft up to the other half the 
socket pushes the shaft out. If that doesn't work, it's usually cut-off wheel 
time.
A better penetrating oil than PB Blaster is a 50/50 mix of ATF (automatic 
transmission fluid) and acetone.

On 11 November 2013 07:44, Joel Aronson 
mailto:joel.aron...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Eric,

IF PB Blaster doesn't work, you might try heat on the coupler.  Get two pipe 
wrenches - shaft and coupler.  Heat and twist.
If that fails, use a gear puller or make one with a small piece of 1/4 inch 
thick metal, drill holes to match the coupler and a threaded center hole for a 
decent size bolt.  Bolt the plate to the coupler and use the center bolt to 
push the shaft out.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Eric Frank 
mailto:efran...@mac.com>> wrote:
Thanks to the list's advice last week about getting the bolts loose on the 
universal to shaft coupling, I got them all out with an impact wrench.  Worked 
beautifully. But now I am stuck again getting the shaft coupling off the prop 
shaft.  Removed the bolts that grip the coupling to the shaft and also a 
square-headed bolt in the coupling that probably fits into a keyway in the 
shaft, but I can't break the shaft loose from the coupling.  I tried holding 
the coupling from turning with a pipe wrench and trying to turn the prop shaft 
(by gripping the sacrificial zinc on the shaft with a big vice grips so as not 
to damage the shaft itself), but it didn't budge.  And of course I don't want 
to damage anything.

One possibility would be to slide the shaft as far aft as possible (since it is 
disconnected from the universal and the SS PYI piece (that acts as the bearing 
up against the bellows) that is on the shaft slides forward on the shaft) and 
then get a small wheel puller on the coupling so it would push the shaft out of 
the coupling.  I have no experience with wheel pullers but it seems that it 
might work.

But I would really value input from the list about how to proceed.  Apparently 
the salt water leaking around the bellows this summer rusted the coupler 
sufficiently that it is really stuck.

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


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301 541 8551

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Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Petar Horvatic]

My waterlift muffler and heat exchanger have drains.  I find that they tend
to seize up and not seal properly  if not opened frequently.  I don't run
antifreeze through the raw water side.  After the usual oil change, fuel
filter change and fresh water flush, I open the drains and let the water
drain out.  

 

Petar Horvatic

Sundowner

76 C&C 38MkII

Newport, RI

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David
Knecht
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:47 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Subject: Stus-List winterizing engine

 

I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time
with the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose
off the seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through
until pink came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off
and find a place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be
pouring while someone else watches the rear.  

At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel
that hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in
without taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don't think
there is room above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to
allow pouring.  

All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is
to find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be
pushed into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent
seal, then stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I
can sit the bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against
gravity from the ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just
start the engine and run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink
stuff and the level in the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler
and in theory can be done single handed.  The key would be finding the
correct hose size to fit snugly.  Has anyone tried this or have a reason why
it should not work?Thanks- Dave

 

 

David Knecht

Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT


 

 

<>___
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Stus-List Rudder bearing

[Alex Giannelia]

lt.  Bolt the plate to the coupler and use the center bolt to 
push the shaft out.



Joel

35/3

Annapolis



On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Eric Frank  wrote:

Thanks to the list's advice last week about getting the bolts loose on the 
universal to shaft coupling, I got them all out with an impact wrench.
Worked beautifully. But now I am stuck again getting the shaft coupling off the 
prop shaft.  Removed the bolts that grip the coupling to the shaft and also a 
square-headed bolt in the coupling that probably fits into a keyway in the 
shaft, but I can't break the shaft loose from the coupling.  I tried holding 
the coupling from turning with a pipe wrench and trying to turn the prop shaft 
(by gripping the sacrificial zinc on the shaft with a big vice grips so as not 
to damage the shaft itself), but it didn't budge.  And of course I don't want 
to damage anything.

One possibility would be to slide the shaft as far aft as possible (since it is 
disconnected from the universal and the SS PYI piece (that acts as the bearing 
up against the bellows) that is on the shaft slides forward on the
shaft) and then get a small wheel puller on the coupling so it would push the 
shaft out of the coupling.  I have no experience with wheel pullers but it 
seems that it might work.

But I would really value input from the list about how to proceed.
Apparently the salt water leaking around the bellows this summer rusted the 
coupler sufficiently that it is really stuck.

Eric Frank
Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


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301 541 8551 


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Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:47:08 -0500
From: David Knecht 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Subject: Stus-List winterizing engine
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time with 
the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose off the 
seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through until pink 
came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off and find a 
place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be pouring while 
someone else watches the rear.
At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel that 
hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in without 
taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don?t think there is room 
above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to allow pouring.
All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is to 
find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be pushed 
into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent seal, then 
stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I can sit the 
bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against gravity from the 
ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just start the engine and 
run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink stuff and the level in 
the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler and in theory can be done 
single handed.  The key would be finding the correct hose size to fit snugly.  
Has anyone tried this or have a reason why it should not work?Thanks- Dave


David Knecht
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:55:34 -0400
From: Rich Knowles 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
Message-ID: <1e5be5e7-3fb2-4803-8f7e-f2f3d8aa1...@sailpower.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; chars

Stus-List winterizing engine

[Marek Dziedzic]

David,

Have you seen this: 
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=136339? I know that 
this is not a C&C, but winterisation is pretty much the same.

It still requires pulling the intake hose off the through-hull, though. But 
mine is reasonably easy to take off.

I used this method (I even used the same Home Depot’s orange bucket (;-)) this 
fall and it worked great. You can warm the engine on the hard without any 
problem using water from a garden hose (it would additionally flush the raw 
water system, as a bonus).

good luck 

Marek (in Ottawa)___
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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Eric Frank]

A possible simplification of Bill's Groco Strainer solution?

For the last couple of years I have just taken the lid off the Groco Strainer 
and poured in antifreeze as the water pump pumped it out.  Needs to stay full 
to avoid running the pump dry, but that is easy to do just by watching the 
level.  In a minute or so an entire gallon has gone through, I kill the engine 
and am done.  Is this procedure not good?

Eric Frank
Cat'sPaw

> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:03:21 -0500
> From: "Bill Coleman" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
> Message-ID: <02ff01cee14a$a98fb4c0$fcaf1e40$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I have seen that done, so it must work.
> 
> Two other suggestions, 
> 
> Replace your hose with a Silicone hose, ( I said I was a fan), these come
> right off and have no memory, kind of like me.
> 
> Or, What I did was buy an extra plastic lid for my Groco Strainer, the put a
> hole in the middle and put a hose adapter into it. Screw a short hose on it,
> then I poke a funnel into the hose.  I start my engine, go below and pour ?
> of a gallon of antifreeze then turn the engine off.  
> 
> 5 gallons, are you serial?  I don?t use that much to winterize my whole
> boat!
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Coleman
> 
> C&C 39 animated_favicon1


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Stus-List winterizing engine

[Marek Dziedzic]

I am surprised how little antifreeze some of you use. I put 18 l (5 US gal - 
two large jugs) through my engine. At about $10 at Home Depot, this is a very 
cheap insurance. Antifreeze mixes up with water in the heat exchanger and the 
muffler, so you want to have quite a bit  to flush this out. Diluted AF very 
quickly loses its anti freezing properties.

Maybe if you live further South, you don’t need to worry. We regularly have 
long stretches of –20C to –30C here. I don’t want to risk a $500 repair for $10 
worth of antifreeze.

just my 2 cents

Marek (in Ottawa)___
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Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI shaft seal

[Jim Watts]

And now...the right way to do it:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal

"Maine Sail" has a whole gallery of how to do things right.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

In my experience, he is dead on with every recommendation. I have found
this to be the best source of accurate information for most projects, and
he has lots of pictures, which helps a lot.


On 14 November 2013 07:23, Della Barba, Joe  wrote:

> My PYI bellows made it from 1988 to 2012 without issue. The face seal was
> a bit worn after all those hours though. I looked into getting a “normal”
> stuffing box but they did not have my size anymore, so I have a new PYI
> now. The spring in the hose is very important – you can’t just use normal
> hose!
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Coleman
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:15 AM
>
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on
> a PYI shaft seal
>
>
>
> You would think, but I don’t see it on their site, just the rubber one.
>
> Besides, if they did, it would ruin their aftermarket for replacements!
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Rich Knowles
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:57 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on
> a PYI shaft seal
>
>
>
> PYI must have considered this..?
>
> Rich
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:43, "Bill Coleman"  wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever seen a Silicone bellows, or similar that could be used for
> this?
>
> I am a big fan of silicone hose, and have seen short connectors on
> powerboats with a pleat in the middle, but not multiple pleats. I have also
> seen a picture of a silicone (I think) bellows on European boat.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39 
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Jim Watts
> *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2013 11:24 AM
> *To:* 1 CnC List
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on
> a PYI shaft seal
>
>
>
> The usual method is to use longer bolts in the coupler with a good solid
> socket in the middle. As you tighten the coupler on the shaft up to the
> other half the socket pushes the shaft out. If that doesn't work, it's
> usually cut-off wheel time.
>
> A better penetrating oil than PB Blaster is a 50/50 mix of ATF (automatic
> transmission fluid) and acetone.
>
>
>
> On 11 November 2013 07:44, Joel Aronson  wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
>
>
> IF PB Blaster doesn't work, you might try heat on the coupler.  Get two
> pipe wrenches - shaft and coupler.  Heat and twist.
>
> If that fails, use a gear puller or make one with a small piece of 1/4
> inch thick metal, drill holes to match the coupler and a threaded center
> hole for a decent size bolt.  Bolt the plate to the coupler and use the
> center bolt to push the shaft out.
>
>
>
> Joel
>
> 35/3
>
> Annapolis
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Eric Frank  wrote:
>
> Thanks to the list's advice last week about getting the bolts loose on the
> universal to shaft coupling, I got them all out with an impact wrench.
>  Worked beautifully. But now I am stuck again getting the shaft coupling
> off the prop shaft.  Removed the bolts that grip the coupling to the shaft
> and also a square-headed bolt in the coupling that probably fits into a
> keyway in the shaft, but I can't break the shaft loose from the coupling.
>  I tried holding the coupling from turning with a pipe wrench and trying to
> turn the prop shaft (by gripping the sacrificial zinc on the shaft with a
> big vice grips so as not to damage the shaft itself), but it didn't budge.
>  And of course I don't want to damage anything.
>
> One possibility would be to slide the shaft as far aft as possible (since
> it is disconnected from the universal and the SS PYI piece (that acts as
> the bearing up against the bellows) that is on the shaft slides forward on
> the shaft) and then get a small wheel puller on the coupling so it would
> push the shaft out of the coupling.  I have no experience with wheel
> pullers but it seems that it might work.
>
> But I would really value input from the list about how to proceed.
>  Apparently the salt water leaking around the bellows this summer rusted
> the coupler sufficiently that it is really stuck.
>
> Eric Frank
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C&C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
>
> __

Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Frederick G Street]

That’s what I do, too.  It seems to work just fine, and I use about 1-1/2 
gallons of pure -50F non-toxic antifreeze in the process.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Nov 14, 2013, at 9:46 AM, Eric Frank  wrote:

> A possible simplification of Bill's Groco Strainer solution?
> 
> For the last couple of years I have just taken the lid off the Groco Strainer 
> and poured in antifreeze as the water pump pumped it out.  Needs to stay full 
> to avoid running the pump dry, but that is easy to do just by watching the 
> level.  In a minute or so an entire gallon has gone through, I kill the 
> engine and am done.  Is this procedure not good?

___
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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[sam . c . salter]

Yeah - I've been Doing the same for about 10 years now! I also pull the raw water impeller.I sail on a lake so no need to flush with fresh water. Boat lives in Alberta, Canada so temp may get down to -30+ (...or should that be -30-) in January or February. Engine still OK after 10 years. SamC&C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta    From: Petar HorvaticSent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:28 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engineMy waterlift muffler and heat exchanger have drains.  I find that they tend to seize up and not seal properly  if not opened frequently.  I don’t run antifreeze through the raw water side.  After the usual oil change, fuel filter change and fresh water flush, I open the drains and let the water drain out.   Petar HorvaticSundowner76 C&C 38MkIINewport, RI   From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David KnechtSent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:47 AMTo: CnC CnC discussion listSubject: Stus-List winterizing engine I am planning to winterize my engine this weekend and it is the first time with the Universal M4-30.  On my older 34, I used to pull the intake hose off the seacock and stick it in a bucket of antifreeze and suck it through until pink came out the exhaust.  That was always a pain to get the hose off and find a place to support the bucket and requires two people so I can be pouring while someone else watches the rear.  At the Newport Boat show, I saw a booth advertising the Seaflush- a funnel that hooks up to the intake strainer and allows you to put antifreeze in without taking the hose off.  A bit of an improvement, but I don’t think there is room above the strainer for the device and a jug of antifreeze to allow pouring.  All that made me think about a way to make  this job easier.  My thought is to find a size of Tygon (clear plastic flexible) tubing that that can be pushed into the intake port of the engine from the outside to make a decent seal, then stick the other end of that hose into a bucket of antifreeze.  I can sit the bucket on the deck, so it does not have to be lifted against gravity from the ground (although I doubt that would matter).  Then I just start the engine and run 5 gallons through watching the outlet port for pink stuff and the level in the bucket.  Then shut off the engine.  Much simpler and in theory can be done single handed.  The key would be finding the correct hose size to fit snugly.  Has anyone tried this or have a reason why it should not work?    Thanks- Dave  David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT ___
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Stus-List winterizing engine

[Robert Abbott]

One of the contractors that does a lot of work around our club uses this 
method (Eric's strainer method).on most boats he does, it's a two 
person jobone to access the strainer and pour, one to start and stop 
the engine. It's pretty simple and we usually open up the strainer to 
clean it in the Fall anyway!



Bob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2013/11/14 11:46 AM, Eric Frank wrote:

A possible simplification of Bill's Groco Strainer solution?

For the last couple of years I have just taken the lid off the Groco Strainer 
and poured in antifreeze as the water pump pumped it out.  Needs to stay full 
to avoid running the pump dry, but that is easy to do just by watching the 
level.  In a minute or so an entire gallon has gone through, I kill the engine 
and am done.  Is this procedure not good?

Eric Frank
Cat'sPaw


Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:03:21 -0500
From: "Bill Coleman" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
Message-ID: <02ff01cee14a$a98fb4c0$fcaf1e40$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have seen that done, so it must work.

Two other suggestions,

Replace your hose with a Silicone hose, ( I said I was a fan), these come
right off and have no memory, kind of like me.

Or, What I did was buy an extra plastic lid for my Groco Strainer, the put a
hole in the middle and put a hose adapter into it. Screw a short hose on it,
then I poke a funnel into the hose.  I start my engine, go below and pour ?
of a gallon of antifreeze then turn the engine off.

5 gallons, are you serial?  I don?t use that much to winterize my whole
boat!



Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1


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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[dwight veinot]

Marek

I live in what some would call up north and it can get pretty darn cold
here in Jan/ Feb and as I said I use 4 liters of 50/50 mix to winterize my
engine heat exchanger system.  The engine block itself always has 50/50 in
it and this year I drained and renewed the coolant for the first time in 10
years.  The heat exchanger system does not have a large volume and after a
thorough fresh water flush you can run the engine dry long enough to clear
some residual water without damage to anything...then submerge the hose in
the 50/50 mix and let her go until you see the antifreeze color in the
exhaust discharge and hold that for a few seconds...10 years with this
boat, same procedure, never a problem and my water pump impellor just
finished year 5, I think...maybe I'll change it next spring just to give
myself an extra project...I always carry spares...I have the Sherwood pump
and aside from difficulty in accessing the screws (nuts) no problems with
it yet.

Dwight

Dwight Veinot
Alianna
C&C 35 MKII
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Marek Dziedzic wrote:

>   I am surprised how little antifreeze some of you use. I put 18 l (5 US
> gal - two large jugs) through my engine. At about $10 at Home Depot, this
> is a very cheap insurance. Antifreeze mixes up with water in the heat
> exchanger and the muffler, so you want to have quite a bit  to flush this
> out. Diluted AF very quickly loses its anti freezing properties.
>
> Maybe if you live further South, you don’t need to worry. We regularly
> have long stretches of –20C to –30C here. I don’t want to risk a $500
> repair for $10 worth of antifreeze.
>
> just my 2 cents
>
> Marek (in Ottawa)
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
___
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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Rich Knowles]

Don't forget to open the sea ok for the cooling water after the antifreeze 
treatment and let the line drain. 

Rich

> On Nov 14, 2013, at 13:32, Robert Abbott  wrote:
> 
> One of the contractors that does a lot of work around our club uses this 
> method (Eric's strainer method).on most boats he does, it's a two person 
> jobone to access the strainer and pour, one to start and stop the engine. 
> It's pretty simple and we usually open up the strainer to clean it in the 
> Fall anyway!
> 
> 
> Bob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
> 
>> On 2013/11/14 11:46 AM, Eric Frank wrote:
>> A possible simplification of Bill's Groco Strainer solution?
>> 
>> For the last couple of years I have just taken the lid off the Groco 
>> Strainer and poured in antifreeze as the water pump pumped it out.  Needs to 
>> stay full to avoid running the pump dry, but that is easy to do just by 
>> watching the level.  In a minute or so an entire gallon has gone through, I 
>> kill the engine and am done.  Is this procedure not good?
>> 
>> Eric Frank
>> Cat'sPaw
>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:03:21 -0500
>>> From: "Bill Coleman" 
>>> To: 
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
>>> Message-ID: <02ff01cee14a$a98fb4c0$fcaf1e40$@net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> 
>>> I have seen that done, so it must work.
>>> 
>>> Two other suggestions,
>>> 
>>> Replace your hose with a Silicone hose, ( I said I was a fan), these come
>>> right off and have no memory, kind of like me.
>>> 
>>> Or, What I did was buy an extra plastic lid for my Groco Strainer, the put a
>>> hole in the middle and put a hose adapter into it. Screw a short hose on it,
>>> then I poke a funnel into the hose.  I start my engine, go below and pour ?
>>> of a gallon of antifreeze then turn the engine off.
>>> 
>>> 5 gallons, are you serial?  I don?t use that much to winterize my whole
>>> boat!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bill Coleman
>>> 
>>> C&C 39 animated_favicon1
>> 
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> 
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Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows

[Eric Frank]

Jim - A great site.  Thanks so much.  He makes a strong case for not re-using 
the old coupling, and mine is certainly rusted. Would your suggestion be to let 
the yard finish the job?

On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

> From: Jim Watts 
> To: 1 CnC List 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows
>   on a PYI shaft seal
> 
> And now...the right way to do it:
> http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal
> 
> "Maine Sail" has a whole gallery of how to do things right.
> http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
> 
> In my experience, he is dead on with every recommendation. I have found
> this to be the best source of accurate information for most projects, and
> he has lots of pictures, which helps a lot.
> 


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Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI shaft seal

[Martin DeYoung]

One of the requirements for the bellows is to resist the twisting force from 
the prop shaft rotation.  I suspect PYI and their suppliers have looked at many 
materials and manufacturing techniques to find the best compromise between 
strength and flexibility with an eye for cost.

IIRC back in the 80's when I put my first PYI Shaft Seal on a boat the bellows 
had an outside texture more like a fabric.  The one on Calypso today seems 
smoother and more like a polymer or silicone based material.

I am careful with both mechanical and chemical exposures around the bellows.  
If the boat has been sitting un-used for more than 6 weeks I will give the 
bellows an inspection and "burp" to be sure no growth has bonded the rotator to 
the carbon bushing at the end of the bellows.  Likely this is overkill but I am 
within a foot of the bellows when opening the raw water through hull valve.

Martin
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:15 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI 
shaft seal

You would think, but I don't see it on their site, just the rubber one.
Besides, if they did, it would ruin their aftermarket for replacements!

Bill Coleman
C&C 39

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows on a PYI 
shaft seal

PYI must have considered this..?

Rich

On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:43, "Bill Coleman" 
mailto:colt...@verizon.net>> wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a Silicone bellows, or similar that could be used for this?
I am a big fan of silicone hose, and have seen short connectors on powerboats 
with a pleat in the middle, but not multiple pleats. I have also seen a picture 
of a silicone (I think) bellows on European boat.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 

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Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows

[Jim Watts]

I got to play this game when I changed from a regular prop to a Max
Prop...it turned out the shaft was slightly warped, radially. The machinist
said it had probably had something like an anchor rode wrap on it, and
there was no way to straighten it. So I got a new shaft, new coupling, new
PSS, and I got to see it all go together.

The thing about a new coupling is that you have to get the shaft out of the
boat so it can be properly mated and faced, and that's a whole new can of
worms because if the shaft is out, you may as well get it checked for
straightness and runout and that is frequently bad news. I got a split
coupling machined from solid stock, which is light-years ahead of the old
one which had a dimpled set screw, and which should be much easier to
remove when the time comes.

So, a conditional "yes" to replacing the coupling, but be aware of what the
job can morph into. I started out just replacing the cutless bearing...


On 14 November 2013 10:02, Eric Frank  wrote:

> Jim - A great site.  Thanks so much.  He makes a strong case for not
> re-using the old coupling, and mine is certainly rusted. Would your
> suggestion be to let the yard finish the job?
>
> On Nov 14, 2013, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> > From: Jim Watts 
> > To: 1 CnC List 
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List further questions about replacing the bellows
> >   on a PYI shaft seal
> >
> > And now...the right way to do it:
> > http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal
> >
> > "Maine Sail" has a whole gallery of how to do things right.
> > http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
> >
> > In my experience, he is dead on with every recommendation. I have found
> > this to be the best source of accurate information for most projects, and
> > he has lots of pictures, which helps a lot.
> >
>
>
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> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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>



-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
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Stus-List winterizing engine

[Robert Abbott]

Marek:

I use basically the same method as Dwightbucket with hose in it in 
the cockpit with a hose running from it to the intake on the water pump 
to fresh water pump.then let the engine pump the fresh water out and 
I put a 50/50 antifreeze in the bucket (2 gallons) but my Yanmar 2GMF 
uses about a gallon when it exits the exhaust.  The rest get used in the 
shower pump and head.


I use about a gallon, maybe a 1.5 gallons of plumber's antifreeze for 
the fresh water system.   6 wintersno problems!


Bob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2013/11/14 1:58 PM, dwight veinot wrote:

Marek

I live in what some would call up north and it can get pretty darn 
cold here in Jan/ Feb and as I said I use 4 liters of 50/50 mix to 
winterize my engine heat exchanger system.  The engine block itself 
always has 50/50 in it and this year I drained and renewed the coolant 
for the first time in 10 years.  The heat exchanger system does not 
have a large volume and after a thorough fresh water flush you can run 
the engine dry long enough to clear some residual water without damage 
to anything...then submerge the hose in the 50/50 mix and let her go 
until you see the antifreeze color in the exhaust discharge and hold 
that for a few seconds...10 years with this boat, same procedure, 
never a problem and my water pump impellor just finished year 5, I 
think...maybe I'll change it next spring just to give myself an extra 
project...I always carry spares...I have the Sherwood pump and aside 
from difficulty in accessing the screws (nuts) no problems with it yet.


Dwight

Dwight Veinot
Alianna
C&C 35 MKII
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Marek Dziedzic 
mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>> wrote:


I am surprised how little antifreeze some of you use. I put 18 l
(5 US gal - two large jugs) through my engine. At about $10 at
Home Depot, this is a very cheap insurance. Antifreeze mixes up
with water in the heat exchanger and the muffler, so you want to
have quite a bit  to flush this out. Diluted AF very quickly loses
its anti freezing properties.
Maybe if you live further South, you don't need to worry. We
regularly have long stretches of --20C to --30C here. I don't want
to risk a $500 repair for $10 worth of antifreeze.
just my 2 cents
Marek (in Ottawa)

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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[Bill Coleman]

That is definitely a better alternative to what I do, it's just that my
strainer is behind the engine, and if I did that I would be disemboweled by
the alternator!

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Frank
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

A possible simplification of Bill's Groco Strainer solution?

For the last couple of years I have just taken the lid off the Groco
Strainer and poured in antifreeze as the water pump pumped it out.  Needs to
stay full to avoid running the pump dry, but that is easy to do just by
watching the level.  In a minute or so an entire gallon has gone through, I
kill the engine and am done.  Is this procedure not good?

Eric Frank
Cat'sPaw

> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:03:21 -0500
> From: "Bill Coleman" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
> Message-ID: <02ff01cee14a$a98fb4c0$fcaf1e40$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I have seen that done, so it must work.
> 
> Two other suggestions, 
> 
> Replace your hose with a Silicone hose, ( I said I was a fan), these come
> right off and have no memory, kind of like me.
> 
> Or, What I did was buy an extra plastic lid for my Groco Strainer, the put
a
> hole in the middle and put a hose adapter into it. Screw a short hose on
it,
> then I poke a funnel into the hose.  I start my engine, go below and pour
?
> of a gallon of antifreeze then turn the engine off.  
> 
> 5 gallons, are you serial?  I don?t use that much to winterize my whole
> boat!
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Coleman
> 
> C&C 39 animated_favicon1


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Re: Stus-List winterizing engine

[dwight veinot]

Bill

You make a good point. Winterizing is differnt for different boats and
different systems and different sailors...it helps when we describe the
systems we are winterizing...I responded with my approach to David who
asked specifically about the Universal M4-30 because I winterize that
engine every year on Alianna.

Dwight

Dwight Veinot
Alianna
C&C 35 MKII
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Bill Coleman  wrote:

> That is definitely a better alternative to what I do, it's just that my
> strainer is behind the engine, and if I did that I would be disemboweled by
> the alternator!
>
> Bill Coleman
> C&C 39
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Frank
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:47 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
>
> A possible simplification of Bill's Groco Strainer solution?
>
> For the last couple of years I have just taken the lid off the Groco
> Strainer and poured in antifreeze as the water pump pumped it out.  Needs
> to
> stay full to avoid running the pump dry, but that is easy to do just by
> watching the level.  In a minute or so an entire gallon has gone through, I
> kill the engine and am done.  Is this procedure not good?
>
> Eric Frank
> Cat'sPaw
>
> > Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:03:21 -0500
> > From: "Bill Coleman" 
> > To: 
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing engine
> > Message-ID: <02ff01cee14a$a98fb4c0$fcaf1e40$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I have seen that done, so it must work.
> >
> > Two other suggestions,
> >
> > Replace your hose with a Silicone hose, ( I said I was a fan), these come
> > right off and have no memory, kind of like me.
> >
> > Or, What I did was buy an extra plastic lid for my Groco Strainer, the
> put
> a
> > hole in the middle and put a hose adapter into it. Screw a short hose on
> it,
> > then I poke a funnel into the hose.  I start my engine, go below and pour
> ?
> > of a gallon of antifreeze then turn the engine off.
> >
> > 5 gallons, are you serial?  I don?t use that much to winterize my whole
> > boat!
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Coleman
> >
> > C&C 39 animated_favicon1
>
>
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Stus-List winterizing engine

[kelly petew]

For a more or less "hands-free" method, I inserted a valve in the side of one 
of those larger, plastic buckets [e.g., a painter's bucket].   The valve was 
purchased at local hardware store, and it goes through the side of the bucket, 
of course, held in place by a threaded fitting.  I sealed it to the side of the 
bucket with either silicone or epoxy.  
 
 I slide a clear, plastic hose over the valve on bucket.  The other end has a 
barbed fitting, which I insert into the raw-water intake after its removal from 
the seacock.  
The clear hose is about 5 to 7 feet long, which enables me to move the bucket 
UP to the cockpit where I can start/stop the engine easily while monitoring the 
exhaust until it's "in the pink" as well as add anti-freeze to the bucket, as 
needed.
It's important to use a bungee cord or two to be sure your plastic hose doesn't 
come in contact with moving engine parts.  
 
Hope this helps.
Fair Winds,
 
Pete W.
 
Siren Song
C&C 30 -2
Deltaville, VA
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