Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

[Josh Muckley]

Sorry folks, I forgot to include the link to the pictures.  Rookie mistake.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Maryland
On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 PM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> Hey everyone just wanted to share some pictures of the rudder rebuild on
> my 1989 C&C 37+.  Steve Uhthoff at Annapolis Gelcoat and Fiberglass did a
> fantastic job and gave fantastic support.
>
> As a bit of a background on the boat and the rudder.  I bought it May
> 2012.  At the time of the survey it was noted that the rudder had high
> moisture though no movement over the shaft was noted.  The exact extent of
> condition could not be determined.  I decided that the rudder was
> absolutely going to be the first repair project during the winter haul out.
>
> Steve identified a specific design deficiency in that the stainless steel
> arms were not bonded to either of the skins.  Little or no stiffness was
> being provided by the arms.  He did on the other hand find that all of the
> welds and the shaft were completely encapsulated and that no oxidation had
> occurred.  He removed all of the old foam core.  Bonded the arms to one of
> the skins.  Re-foamed the core with 4lbs foam.  Created bonding pads in the
> core so that the arms could be bonded to the new top skin.  He fiberglassed
> the foam in place with 7 layers and vinylester teeing.  Finished it off
> with 3 coats of barrier coat and faring compound on both sides.  I probably
> mis-stated some part of the job being that I am not an fiberglass expert
> but the long story made short is that I am exceedingly happy with the
> outcome as well as the knowledge, expertise, and professionalism
> demonstrated by Steve and his staff.
>
> Regardless of where you get your rudder rebuilt I hope the pictures help
> some of you to at least pre-plan by seeing what you are getting into.  Good
> Luck.
>
> Annapolis Gelcoat & Fiberglass Repairs
> P.O. Box 3438 Annapolis, MD 21403
> Office: 410-263-8980
> Fax: 410-280-2639
> http://www.annapolisgelcoat.com
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Maryland
>
> --
> Want to email me privately?
> Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Privacy_Guard
> Then get my public key at:
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Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

[Chuck S]

Great pictures of the rudder rebuild. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Josh Muckley"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:44:43 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild 



Sorry folks, I forgot to include the link to the pictures. Rookie mistake. 

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C&C 37+ 
Maryland 
On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 PM, "Josh Muckley" < muckl...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Hey everyone just wanted to share some pictures of the rudder rebuild on my 
1989 C&C 37+. Steve Uhthoff at Annapolis Gelcoat and Fiberglass did a fantastic 
job and gave fantastic support. 

As a bit of a background on the boat and the rudder. I bought it May 2012. At 
the time of the survey it was noted that the rudder had high moisture though no 
movement over the shaft was noted. The exact extent of condition could not be 
determined. I decided that the rudder was absolutely going to be the first 
repair project during the winter haul out. 

Steve identified a specific design deficiency in that the stainless steel arms 
were not bonded to either of the skins. Little or no stiffness was being 
provided by the arms. He did on the other hand find that all of the welds and 
the shaft were completely encapsulated and that no oxidation had occurred. He 
removed all of the old foam core. Bonded the arms to one of the skins. 
Re-foamed the core with 4lbs foam. Created bonding pads in the core so that the 
arms could be bonded to the new top skin. He fiberglassed the foam in place 
with 7 layers and vinylester teeing. Finished it off with 3 coats of barrier 
coat and faring compound on both sides. I probably mis-stated some part of the 
job being that I am not an fiberglass expert but the long story made short is 
that I am exceedingly happy with the outcome as well as the knowledge, 
expertise, and professionalism demonstrated by Steve and his staff. 

Regardless of where you get your rudder rebuilt I hope the pictures help some 
of you to at least pre-plan by seeing what you are getting into. Good Luck. 

Annapolis Gelcoat & Fiberglass Repairs 
P.O. Box 3438 Annapolis, MD 21403 
Office: 410-263-8980 
Fax: 410-280-2639 
http://www.annapolisgelcoat.com 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C&C 37+ 
Maryland 

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Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

[Graham Collins]

Cool, thanks Josh!

Question, wouldn't this make it slightly non-symmetrical?   Or did he 
add fairing compound to the opposite side to bulk it out the same amount?


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2013-02-14 5:44 AM, Josh Muckley wrote:


Sorry folks, I forgot to include the link to the pictures. Rookie mistake.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Maryland

On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 PM, "Josh Muckley" > wrote:


Hey everyone just wanted to share some pictures of the rudder
rebuild on my 1989 C&C 37+.  Steve Uhthoff at Annapolis Gelcoat
and Fiberglass did a fantastic job and gave fantastic support.

As a bit of a background on the boat and the rudder.  I bought it
May 2012.  At the time of the survey it was noted that the rudder
had high moisture though no movement over the shaft was noted. 
The exact extent of condition could not be determined.  I decided

that the rudder was absolutely going to be the first repair
project during the winter haul out.

Steve identified a specific design deficiency in that the
stainless steel arms were not bonded to either of the skins. 
Little or no stiffness was being provided by the arms.  He did on

the other hand find that all of the welds and the shaft were
completely encapsulated and that no oxidation had occurred.  He
removed all of the old foam core.  Bonded the arms to one of the
skins.  Re-foamed the core with 4lbs foam.  Created bonding pads
in the core so that the arms could be bonded to the new top skin. 
He fiberglassed the foam in place with 7 layers and vinylester

teeing.  Finished it off with 3 coats of barrier coat and faring
compound on both sides.  I probably mis-stated some part of the
job being that I am not an fiberglass expert but the long story
made short is that I am exceedingly happy with the outcome as well
as the knowledge, expertise, and professionalism demonstrated by
Steve and his staff.

Regardless of where you get your rudder rebuilt I hope the
pictures help some of you to at least pre-plan by seeing what you
are getting into.  Good Luck.

Annapolis Gelcoat & Fiberglass Repairs
P.O. Box 3438 Annapolis, MD 21403
Office: 410-263-8980 
Fax: 410-280-2639 
http://www.annapolisgelcoat.com

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Maryland

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Re: Stus-List Attn: Harry-Miracle

[Tim Goodyear]

Wal, I like it.  Now, how to keep the swim ladder too...

Tim


On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Wally Bryant  wrote:

> you wrote:
>
>> Tim, this might be an opportunity to get creative; 
>>
> Yup, check out the options.  I can honestly say that redesigning the stern
> rails and adding seats was one of the most wonderful improvements to my
> cockpit.  It doubled the effective space.  The trick, of course, is to make
> it fit the lines of the boat. Anyway, perhaps the insurance plus a bit
> extra could make it better than it was before.
>
> Here's what I did:  sternrail/index.htm>
> Your boat is different, of course.
>
> Wal
>
>
>
> __**_
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Dennis C.]

Proposed and approved at last handicap committee meeting, GYA (Gulf Yachting 
Association) PHRF rules allow a non-sprit boat to add a sprit up to 2.5 feet 
and an asymmetrical chute up to 123% of a standard symmetrical chute for a -3 
second adjustment.  Sprits longer than 2.5 feet will get case by case review.

Dennis C.





>
> From: Rick Brass 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:50 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review
> 
>
>Tom;
> 
>I thought that one of the Chessie sailors had indicated that the penalty for a 
>long pole in Chessie Phrf was -3 for a pole longer than J but less than 110% 
>of J, and -6 for a pole longer than 110% or more of J.
> 
>I’ve spent the last half hour reading the documents on the Chessie PHRF site, 
>and cannot find this in the rules. But the rules do say you can tack your 
>asymmetric to the stem, a pole, or a bowsprit. If a pole, the max unpenalized 
>SPL = J. If a Bowsprit, the max unpenalized BS = J. So you will take a hit if 
>you use a bowsprit. The upside may be that the max unpenalized foot for an 
>asymmetrical AF on a pole  = 180% of J, but the max unpenalized AF for an 
>asymmetrical on a bowsprit is 180% of BS. So if you use a bowsprit longer than 
>J, you can also use an oversized asymmetrical spin with no further penalty.
> 
>That may not be a lot of consolation unless you have enough cash on hand for 
>another spinnaker.
> 
>Jake is correct. The best thing for you to do is to give your local PHRF rep a 
>call and ask him. You’ll find a list of all the PHRF reps at 
>http://www.phrfchesbay.com/hdp12399.htm .
> 
>I was thinking about updating mu old Chessie PHRF rating to use in Joe Della 
>Barbra’s race in July. But as I look at all the requirements on the form, I 
>may pass and just go with my NCPHRF plus 6 seconds.
> 
>Rick Brass
>Washington, NC
> 
>From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TOM VINCENT
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:32 PM
>To: C&C Forum
>Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review
> 
>Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
>responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
>penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
>asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
>show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River 
>which is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the 
>Chesapeake Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been 
>racing the C&C 36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst 
>finish overall was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and 
>have an average of 10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a 
>rating of 147 non spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock 
>for two years and then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We 
>have learned how to gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
 practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I can 
do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area 
of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the boat takes 
off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a 
few members.
>
>Tom Vincent
>Frolic II
>Chesapeake City, MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Gary Nylander]

Tom, the reason that you didn't get a definitive answer for your question is 
that the various PHRF regions around the country treat asyms and poles and such 
differently. PHRF of the Chesapeake will penalize you three seconds if you have 
a 'regular' pole and add an asym to your sail inventory (in addition to your 
sym). I have no clue what they would do in your situation, but I did stay at a 
Holiday Inn.no, that's wrong, I do have a friend who is a PHRF rating 
person and I can ask... OK?

Gary Nylander
St. Michaels
  - Original Message - 
  From: TOM VINCENT 
  To: C&C Forum 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:32 PM
  Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review


  Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with practice. The sprit should make it 
much easier to gybe, as I understand I can do an inside gybe with the sprit. 
The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. 
When we are on a broad reach the boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 
degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a few members.

  Tom Vincent
  Frolic II
  Chesapeake City, MD



--


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Re: Stus-List Attn: Harry-Miracle

[Joel Aronson]

I'm making stern seats from Starboard after I finish the cabin work. I'll
get photos when done.

Joel Aronson


On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:

Wal, I like it.  Now, how to keep the swim ladder too...

Tim


On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Wally Bryant  wrote:

> you wrote:
>
>> Tim, this might be an opportunity to get creative; 
>>
> Yup, check out the options.  I can honestly say that redesigning the stern
> rails and adding seats was one of the most wonderful improvements to my
> cockpit.  It doubled the effective space.  The trick, of course, is to make
> it fit the lines of the boat. Anyway, perhaps the insurance plus a bit
> extra could make it better than it was before.
>
> Here's what I did:  sternrail/index.htm>
> Your boat is different, of course.
>
> Wal
>
>
>
> __**_
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>

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Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

[Josh Muckley]

Graham,

I haven't sighted the rudder specifically yet nor do I have even mildly
calibrated tools with which to make measurements, so the answer to your
question is "maybe".  There was some deformation from years of freeze/thaw
on the remaining original skin.  Steve did sand and fair those deformations
as best he could.  He also made sure to create the proper shape out of the
foam prior to laminating it.  The fiberglass matte was also wrapped around
the edges about 4 inches the whole way around.  So truely the rudder would
probably not fit in the original mold (on either side).  However, given
Steve's expertise, I believe that whatever inconsistencies may exsist will
be negligible and irrelevant to the performance of the boat.  Not only that
but the rudder will certainly be 100x better than the way it was.  I can
only hope at this point.  :)

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:58:16 -0400
> From: Graham Collins 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Cool, thanks Josh!
>
> Question, wouldn't this make it slightly non-symmetrical?   Or did he
> add fairing compound to the opposite side to bulk it out the same amount?
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
> On 2013-02-14 5:44 AM, Josh Muckley wrote:
> >
> > Sorry folks, I forgot to include the link to the pictures. Rookie
mistake.
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit
> >
> > Josh Muckley
> > S/V Sea Hawk
> > 1989 C&C 37+
> > Maryland
> >
> > On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 PM, "Josh Muckley"  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone just wanted to share some pictures of the rudder
> > rebuild on my 1989 C&C 37+.  Steve Uhthoff at Annapolis Gelcoat
> > and Fiberglass did a fantastic job and gave fantastic support.
> >
> > As a bit of a background on the boat and the rudder.  I bought it
> > May 2012.  At the time of the survey it was noted that the rudder
> > had high moisture though no movement over the shaft was noted.
> > The exact extent of condition could not be determined.  I decided
> > that the rudder was absolutely going to be the firs
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Re: Stus-List Stern Seats

[Edd Schillay]

Has anyone tried making (or buying) stern seats for a 37+? Any leads, photos, 
etc. would be great. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37/40+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

I'm making stern seats from Starboard after I finish the cabin work. I'll get 
photos when done. 

Joel Aronson


On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:

> Wal, I like it.  Now, how to keep the swim ladder too...
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Wally Bryant  wrote:
> you wrote:
> Tim, this might be an opportunity to get creative; 
> Yup, check out the options.  I can honestly say that redesigning the stern 
> rails and adding seats was one of the most wonderful improvements to my 
> cockpit.  It doubled the effective space.  The trick, of course, is to make 
> it fit the lines of the boat. Anyway, perhaps the insurance plus a bit extra 
> could make it better than it was before.
> 
> Here's what I did: 
>  Your 
> boat is different, of course.
> 
> Wal
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

[Tim Goodyear]

Josh, can I ask how much that set you back?  I think I have a rudder
rebuild in my future (why not - we've done everything else...).

Thanks,

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:

> Graham,
>
> I haven't sighted the rudder specifically yet nor do I have even mildly
> calibrated tools with which to make measurements, so the answer to your
> question is "maybe".  There was some deformation from years of freeze/thaw
> on the remaining original skin.  Steve did sand and fair those deformations
> as best he could.  He also made sure to create the proper shape out of the
> foam prior to laminating it.  The fiberglass matte was also wrapped around
> the edges about 4 inches the whole way around.  So truely the rudder would
> probably not fit in the original mold (on either side).  However, given
> Steve's expertise, I believe that whatever inconsistencies may exsist will
> be negligible and irrelevant to the performance of the boat.  Not only that
> but the rudder will certainly be 100x better than the way it was.  I can
> only hope at this point.  :)
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> > --
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:58:16 -0400
> > From: Graham Collins 
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> >
> > Cool, thanks Josh!
> >
> > Question, wouldn't this make it slightly non-symmetrical?   Or did he
> > add fairing compound to the opposite side to bulk it out the same amount?
> >
> > Graham Collins
> > Secret Plans
> > C&C 35-III #11
> >
> > On 2013-02-14 5:44 AM, Josh Muckley wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry folks, I forgot to include the link to the pictures. Rookie
> mistake.
> > >
> > > https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit
> > >
> > > Josh Muckley
> > > S/V Sea Hawk
> > > 1989 C&C 37+
> > > Maryland
> > >
> > > On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 PM, "Josh Muckley"  > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey everyone just wanted to share some pictures of the rudder
> > > rebuild on my 1989 C&C 37+.  Steve Uhthoff at Annapolis Gelcoat
> > > and Fiberglass did a fantastic job and gave fantastic support.
> > >
> > > As a bit of a background on the boat and the rudder.  I bought it
> > > May 2012.  At the time of the survey it was noted that the rudder
> > > had high moisture though no movement over the shaft was noted.
> > > The exact extent of condition could not be determined.  I decided
> > > that the rudder was absolutely going to be the firs
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Ronald B. Frerker]

In our area, we have a 3sec/mi penalty for each 10% a sprit end point would be 
over the J.  That's the basic recommendation from PHRF.  Since stations are 
independent, there are variations.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL


--- On Wed, 2/13/13, TOM VINCENT  wrote:


From: TOM VINCENT 
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review
To: "C&C Forum" 
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 8:32 PM






Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
 practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I can 
do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area 
of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the boat takes 
off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a 
few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD

-Inline Attachment Follows-


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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Hoyt, Mike]

6 sec / mile per 10% of J here. mess with the rig too much and you get
penalized seems to be the rule



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Ronald B. Frerker
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review


In our area, we have a 3sec/mi penalty for each 10% a sprit end point
would be over the J.  That's the basic recommendation from PHRF.  Since
stations are independent, there are variations.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL


--- On Wed, 2/13/13, TOM VINCENT  wrote:



From: TOM VINCENT 
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review
To: "C&C Forum" 
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 8:32 PM


Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were
several responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question
was, what penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for
flying the asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at
the Annapolis Boat show with plans on installing it this spring. I race
on the Bohemia River which is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We
use the PHRF of the Chesapeake Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday
night races. I have been racing the C&C 36' cb for 5 years and have won
the series 2 times and my worst finish overall was a 3rd for the season.
We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 10 boats racing. I
am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non spinnaker and 127
with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and then
purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with practice. The sprit should
make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I can do an inside gybe
with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area of 1090,
it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the boat takes off,
down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps
a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD


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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Ronald B. Frerker]

Not sure if that's true everywhere about the increased chute size not being 
penalized.
I think most places would adjust 6sec/mi for each 10% of chute increase.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL


--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Rick Brass  wrote:


From: Rick Brass 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 9:50 PM







Tom;
 
I thought that one of the Chessie sailors had indicated that the penalty for a 
long pole in Chessie Phrf was -3 for a pole longer than J but less than 110% of 
J, and -6 for a pole longer than 110% or more of J.
 
I’ve spent the last half hour reading the documents on the Chessie PHRF site, 
and cannot find this in the rules. But the rules do say you can tack your 
asymmetric to the stem, a pole, or a bowsprit. If a pole, the max unpenalized 
SPL = J. If a Bowsprit, the max unpenalized BS = J. So you will take a hit if 
you use a bowsprit. The upside may be that the max unpenalized foot for an 
asymmetrical AF on a pole  = 180% of J, but the max unpenalized AF for an 
asymmetrical on a bowsprit is 180% of BS. So if you use a bowsprit longer than 
J, you can also use an oversized asymmetrical spin with no further penalty.
 
That may not be a lot of consolation unless you have enough cash on hand for 
another spinnaker.
 
Jake is correct. The best thing for you to do is to give your local PHRF rep a 
call and ask him. You’ll find a list of all the PHRF reps at 
http://www.phrfchesbay.com/hdp12399.htm .
 
I was thinking about updating mu old Chessie PHRF rating to use in Joe Della 
Barbra’s race in July. But as I look at all the requirements on the form, I may 
pass and just go with my NCPHRF plus 6 seconds.
 
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
 


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TOM VINCENT
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:32 PM
To: C&C Forum
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review
 

Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
 practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I can 
do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area 
of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the boat takes 
off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a 
few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Ronald B. Frerker]

That rather generous.  After all, just getting the sail out front more is 
faster alone; to get the added sail area is a gift.
Of course, you'd better pay close attention to polars if you're racing W/Ls.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL


--- On Thu, 2/14/13, Dennis C.  wrote:


From: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2013, 8:29 AM




Proposed and approved at last handicap committee meeting, GYA (Gulf Yachting 
Association) PHRF rules allow a non-sprit boat to add a sprit up to 2.5 feet 
and an asymmetrical chute up to 123% of a standard symmetrical chute for a -3 
second adjustment.  Sprits longer than 2.5 feet will get case by case review.

Dennis C.










From: Rick Brass 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review







Tom;
 
I thought that one of the Chessie sailors had indicated that the penalty for a 
long pole in Chessie Phrf was -3 for a pole longer than J but less than 110% of 
J, and -6 for a pole longer than 110% or more of J.
 
I’ve spent the last half hour reading the documents on the Chessie PHRF site, 
and cannot find this in the rules. But the rules do say you can tack your 
asymmetric to the stem, a pole, or a bowsprit. If a pole, the max unpenalized 
SPL = J. If a Bowsprit, the max unpenalized BS = J. So you will take a hit if 
you use a bowsprit. The upside may be that the max unpenalized foot for an 
asymmetrical AF on a pole  = 180% of J, but the max unpenalized AF for an 
asymmetrical on a bowsprit is 180% of BS. So if you use a bowsprit longer than 
J, you can also use an oversized asymmetrical spin with no further penalty.
 
That may not be a lot of consolation unless you have enough cash on hand for 
another spinnaker.
 
Jake is correct. The best thing for you to do is to give your local PHRF rep a 
call and ask him. You’ll find a list of all the PHRF reps at 
http://www.phrfchesbay.com/hdp12399.htm .
 
I was thinking about updating mu old Chessie PHRF rating to use in Joe Della 
Barbra’s race in July. But as I look at all the requirements on the form, I may 
pass and just go with my NCPHRF plus 6 seconds.
 
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
 


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TOM VINCENT
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:32 PM
To: C&C Forum
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review
 

Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
 practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I can 
do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area 
of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the boat takes 
off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a 
few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Ronald B. Frerker]

The term blooper can be confusing.  Originally it was a sail set opposite the 
chute when going DDW.  It balanced the IOR boats which might be prone to "rock 
& roll" downwind.
Then either Hood or North, came out with a cruising chute they called a 
blooper; tacked at the stem with an adjustable pennant, but flown free.  Not 
anywhere near the same animal.
My experience with the cruising blooper is that it's best used dragged behind a 
car at 70mph.  Seriously, I think a winged out genny would be more effective.
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30
STL
 

--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Martin DeYoung  wrote:


From: Martin DeYoung 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 7:17 PM









IIRC correctly bloopers prefer better than light air to be effective. I would 
guess 10 TWS and up may be successful.  While I was involved in many odd 
blooper configurations I do not recall sheeting it like a headsail.
 
There is an oft repeated line regarding bloopers (and staysails): They are ½ 
knot sails, you gain ½ knot when you put it up and you gain ½ knot when you 
take it down.
 
In the 70’s and early 80’s the bloopers were popular in longer down wind legs 
and offshore work.  On Transpac and Vic-Maui races we carried a hand crank 
sewing machine to fix the light weight bloopers as they often got wet then torn 
by a deep roll into a wave crest.  One G. Frers 49 footed I sailed to Hawaii 
had a large rudder that allowed us to set up DDW with a smallish 1.5 oz blooper 
and put on a contest to see who could dip the pole tip and boom end more times 
consecutively.  The off watch complained about something regarding spaghetti on 
the sole.
 
In very light DDW conditions give a poled out headsail on one side and a light 
staysail on the other a try.  The non collapsing projected area of the poled 
out headsail can be effective against an “elephant ass” shaped spinnaker that 
collapses every few minutes.
 

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:18 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
 
Neil
 
Did you ever use your blooper or staysail?  I was wondering if either of these 
would have a use in light air, either used as the only headsail off the wind.  
I am planning to try that next summer.
 

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller
Sent: February 13, 2013 8:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
 
We have a 1/2 oz Drifter on Corsair that was made in 1971 that is always on the 
boat.  I can make a knot of boat speed with a knot of wind with it.  It has a 
wire luff that we can fly with the 150 rolled up.  This sail needs to be on the 
deck if the wind makes 8 knots true, but between 3 and 6 knots it is a great 
adder.  Corsair came with this Drifter, a Blooper, and three spinnakers (1/2 
oz, 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz).  Corsair was purchased for the 71 Chi-Mac and the 
previous owners never got rid of anything (including the old EPIRB and Loran).  
We have 20 some odd sails hanging in the Pole barn (3 #1's, 2 #2's, 1 #3, 
Blooper, Drifter, Staysail, 3 Spins, Banana Staysail, etc).  Anybody need any 
hanked on sails?

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair" (originally christened as "Red Pepper")

On 2/13/2013 5:50 PM, Gary Nylander wrote:


Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late '60's 
(friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and made it with 
a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an asym.

 

Gary


- Original Message - 

From: Martin DeYoung 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 
Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.
 
I know when I stretch back Calypso’s 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight reach 
the clew is back where a 160 – 170% headsails would be.
 

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle





From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
 

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  The 
penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.  

 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:


I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs running, 
but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a rating 
hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym 
with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further

Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[Eric Frank]

I am looking for electronic charts for the BVI.  Most useful would be ones that 
work for the Mac programs MacENC or GPSNavX, but I could entertain other 
possibilities if that is not available.  Navionics seems to cover the BVI only 
as part of an entire array of charts for South America (pricey) and I don't 
find any raster charts available.  Any suggestions? or would be happy to 
purchase these second hand if anyone has them and they could be installed by a 
second user.

Thanks,
Eric

Cat's Paw
C&C 35 Mk II
Mattapoisett, MA


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Stus-List Carnival Triumph - What's that smell?

[Dennis C.]

Guess a smelly bilge in a sailboat pales in comparison to the "poop" on the 
Carnival Triumph.  :)

Tried to see if the ship was showing on marinetraffic.com but neither the 
Triumph, its USCG escort or the tugs show.

They're going to dock it after dark tonight.  I don't envy them towing it up 
the 33 mile long Mobile Ship Channel.  It's only 400 feet wide with 9-10 feet 
of water immediately outside the channel.  No thrusters, no winches for the 
dock lines.  If they ground it, I think that would be classified a bit more 
than an "Oops".

Fortunately, wind forecast is only about 5 knots and will be pretty much on the 
nose.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Stus-List Stern Seats

[Bob Hickson]

Try this web site. They will supply / make "stern perch seats".

C&C 37 is on their list of standard seats

 

http://zarcor.com/

 

 

Best regards,

Bob Hickson, P. Eng, RHI, CEA

C&C 29-2 Flying Colours

Frenchman's Bay Yacht Club

Pickering, ON

(416) 919-2297

  bobhick...@rogers.com

 

 __/) 

 

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Stus-List Stern Seats

[Tom Buscaglia]

Yes sir...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8473468815/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8473469441/in/photostream

We got a sheet of Starboard, 4 hinged rail mounts (Edson I think), 2 
round post mounts, velcro pins,  and some 1" SS tubing.  The vertical 
pipe is set in the post mount with the velcro wrap pins through the 
usual allen hole and I drilled a corresponding hole in the 
post.  This allows the post to be easily removed and stowed and the 
seat then folds down, allowing easy access to the fuel filler.


We used them a lot and find them to be a great addition while cruising.

I can dig out the specific parts from my Fisheries account if you're 
interested...


Tom B

At 11:38 AM 2/14/2013, you wrote:

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:22:12 -0500
From: Edd Schillay 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stern Seats
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Has anyone tried making (or buying) stern seats for a 37+? Any 
leads, photos, etc. would be great.


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37/40+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website


Tom Buscaglia
SV Alera
C&C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
(206) 463-9200
www.sv-alera.com
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Re: Stus-List Stern Seats

[Joel Aronson]

Zarcor sells them for 5x the cost of materials.

Joel Aronson


On Feb 14, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Tom Buscaglia  wrote:

Yes sir...

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8473468815/in/photostream

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8473469441/in/photostream

We got a sheet of Starboard, 4 hinged rail mounts (Edson I think), 2 round
post mounts, velcro pins,  and some 1" SS tubing.  The vertical pipe is set
in the post mount with the velcro wrap pins through the usual allen hole
and I drilled a corresponding hole in the post.  This allows the post to be
easily removed and stowed and the seat then folds down, allowing easy
access to the fuel filler.

We used them a lot and find them to be a great addition while cruising.

I can dig out the specific parts from my Fisheries account if you're
interested...

Tom B

At 11:38 AM 2/14/2013, you wrote:

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:22:12 -0500
From: Edd Schillay 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stern Seats
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Has anyone tried making (or buying) stern seats for a 37+? Any leads,
photos, etc. would be great.

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37/40+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

 Tom Buscaglia
SV Alera
C&C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
(206) 463-9200
www.sv-alera.com

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Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

[dwight veinot]

It will be better if he made it deeper

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley
Sent: February 14, 2013 2:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild

 

Graham,

I haven't sighted the rudder specifically yet nor do I have even mildly
calibrated tools with which to make measurements, so the answer to your
question is "maybe".  There was some deformation from years of freeze/thaw
on the remaining original skin.  Steve did sand and fair those deformations
as best he could.  He also made sure to create the proper shape out of the
foam prior to laminating it.  The fiberglass matte was also wrapped around
the edges about 4 inches the whole way around.  So truely the rudder would
probably not fit in the original mold (on either side).  However, given
Steve's expertise, I believe that whatever inconsistencies may exsist will
be negligible and irrelevant to the performance of the boat.  Not only that
but the rudder will certainly be 100x better than the way it was.  I can
only hope at this point.  :)

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD 

> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:58:16 -0400
> From: Graham Collins 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1989 C&C 37+ rudder rebuild
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Cool, thanks Josh!
>
> Question, wouldn't this make it slightly non-symmetrical?   Or did he
> add fairing compound to the opposite side to bulk it out the same amount?
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
> On 2013-02-14 5:44 AM, Josh Muckley wrote:
> >
> > Sorry folks, I forgot to include the link to the pictures. Rookie
mistake.
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yVUdWUDNxVGFUcDA/edit
> >
> > Josh Muckley
> > S/V Sea Hawk
> > 1989 C&C 37+
> > Maryland
> >
> > On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 PM, "Josh Muckley"  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone just wanted to share some pictures of the rudder
> > rebuild on my 1989 C&C 37+.  Steve Uhthoff at Annapolis Gelcoat
> > and Fiberglass did a fantastic job and gave fantastic support.
> >
> > As a bit of a background on the boat and the rudder.  I bought it
> > May 2012.  At the time of the survey it was noted that the rudder
> > had high moisture though no movement over the shaft was noted.
> > The exact extent of condition could not be determined.  I decided
> > that the rudder was absolutely going to be the firs

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5603 - Release Date: 02/14/13

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Re: Stus-List Stern Seats

[Edd Schillay]

Tom,

That is amazing! I'd love to have a pair. 

I don't have a garage to make them though (co-op living….) I'd love the 
parts/instructions, but would you have any interest in making a set of two for 
me, where I would your costs, labor and shipping?


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website







On Feb 14, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Tom Buscaglia  wrote:

> Yes sir...
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8473468815/in/photostream
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8473469441/in/photostream
> 
> We got a sheet of Starboard, 4 hinged rail mounts (Edson I think), 2 round 
> post mounts, velcro pins,  and some 1" SS tubing.  The vertical pipe is set 
> in the post mount with the velcro wrap pins through the usual allen hole and 
> I drilled a corresponding hole in the post.  This allows the post to be 
> easily removed and stowed and the seat then folds down, allowing easy access 
> to the fuel filler.
> 
> We used them a lot and find them to be a great addition while cruising.
> 
> I can dig out the specific parts from my Fisheries account if you're 
> interested...
> 
> Tom B 
> 
> At 11:38 AM 2/14/2013, you wrote:
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:22:12 -0500
>> From: Edd Schillay 
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stern Seats
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> Has anyone tried making (or buying) stern seats for a 37+? Any leads, 
>> photos, etc. would be great. 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Edd
>> 
>> 
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C&C 37/40+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY 
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website
> 
> Tom Buscaglia
> SV Alera
> C&C 37+/40
> Vashon Island WA
> (206) 463-9200
> www.sv-alera.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List Carnival Triumph - What's that smell?

[Colin Kilgour]

Why wouldn't they just drop a hook and take people off in tenders?  I
imagine by the time the ship gets to the channel entrance, the passengers
will be ready to jump overboard, especially if they're in a 400 foot
channel and can see the shore on both sides.

I guess it might be difficult to handle luggage on the tenders, but you'd
think Carnival could figure out a way to handle that.

(Actually. Check that.  Those clowns can't even drive a boat.  I wouldn't
trust them to take my RIB ashore.)

Cheers,
Colin



On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:

> Guess a smelly bilge in a sailboat pales in comparison to the "poop" on
> the Carnival Triumph.  :)
>
> Tried to see if the ship was showing on marinetraffic.com but neither the
> Triumph, its USCG escort or the tugs show.
>
> They're going to dock it after dark tonight.  I don't envy them towing it
> up the 33 mile long Mobile Ship Channel.  It's only 400 feet wide with 9-10
> feet of water immediately outside the channel.  No thrusters, no winches
> for the dock lines.  If they ground it, I think that would be classified a
> bit more than an "Oops".
>
> Fortunately, wind forecast is only about 5 knots and will be pretty much
> on the nose.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
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Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[Tim Goodyear]

iNavX uses Navionics, and the South America and Caribbean coverage is
*not*pricey - I used it successfully last time I was there with my
iPad. NOAA
25641_1 Virgin Islands Virgin Gorda to St Thomas and St Croix is not that
detailed, and doesn't include Anegada.

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Eric Frank  wrote:

> I am looking for electronic charts for the BVI.  Most useful would be ones
> that work for the Mac programs MacENC or GPSNavX, but I could entertain
> other possibilities if that is not available.  Navionics seems to cover the
> BVI only as part of an entire array of charts for South America (pricey)
> and I don't find any raster charts available.  Any suggestions? or would be
> happy to purchase these second hand if anyone has them and they could be
> installed by a second user.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Carnival Triumph - What's that smell?

[Frederick G Street]

I'd REALLY hate to be downwind...

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Feb 14, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:

> Fortunately, wind forecast is only about 5 knots and will be pretty much on 
> the nose.

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Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[Colin Kilgour]

Done for CF.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f19/c-and-c-and-related-rendezvous-being-planned-for-long-island-sound-98146.html#post1158375
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Stus-List wireless access to instrument data.

[Pete Shelquist]

I'm thinking about getting all fancy with wifi.  Anyone have any experience
with this?  

http://dmkyacht.com/ 

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Stus-List Holding tank on CBC 35 mk I

[Glen Eddie]

Hello everyone I've just ripped out the original bladder holding tank from the 
head on my cnc 35 mk I.

I want to put a rigid tank where the bladder was (ie under the counter).

If anyone can tell me what size tank they put I'm it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Pete Shelquist" 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List wireless access to instrument data.
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 6:16 pm



I’m thinking about getting all fancy with wifi.  Anyone have any experience 
with this?
http://dmkyacht.com/___
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Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[Sam Salter]

I've been using iNavX and the "Caribbean & Ct and S. America" chart on my iPad 
for the last 3 years. Was there 3 weeks ago - BVI's.
I think the chart was $30 and of course the app was $50. Once you download it, 
it's in memory, so your not dependent on Wi-Fi. And with the GPS in the iPad, 
your self sufficient.
I've also got iSailor and eSeaChart. iNavX is easily the better and more 
comprehensive both for detail and stuff you can do in the program. I've used 
iNavX all over in the last 3 years. BVi's, Mexico, Chesapeake, San Juans, 
Canadian W. Coast, san Francisco, Catalina. I've not found an error yet.

Sail in the white / anchor in the blue/ drink in the green!

sam
C&C 26  Liquorice
Ghost Lake  Alberta
 

On 2013-02-14, at 1:13 PM, Eric Frank  wrote:

> I am looking for electronic charts for the BVI.  Most useful would be ones 
> that work for the Mac programs MacENC or GPSNavX, but I could entertain other 
> possibilities if that is not available.  Navionics seems to cover the BVI 
> only as part of an entire array of charts for South America (pricey) and I 
> don't find any raster charts available.  Any suggestions? or would be happy 
> to purchase these second hand if anyone has them and they could be installed 
> by a second user.
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric
> 
> Cat's Paw
> C&C 35 Mk II
> Mattapoisett, MA
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List wireless access to instrument data.

[Frederick G Street]

Ben Ellison did a piece a while back on Panbo:

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/12/open_n2k_to_wifi_chetco_seasmart_dmk_yacht_instruments.html

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:16 PM, Pete Shelquist  wrote:

> I’m thinking about getting all fancy with wifi.  Anyone have any experience 
> with this? 
> 
> http://dmkyacht.com/
> 

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Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[Frederick G Street]

Sam -- which company's charts for that area did you get for $30?  The Navionics 
is $59, and good for only a year, according to the iNavX website.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Sam Salter  wrote:

> I've been using iNavX and the "Caribbean & Ct and S. America" chart on my 
> iPad for the last 3 years. Was there 3 weeks ago - BVI's.
> I think the chart was $30 and of course the app was $50.

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Stus-List DMK WiFi

[r...@fvprovidian.net]

I installed the DMK system on my boat last year and love it.  The advantages of 
it over other systems are 1. 3 wifi outputs (Simultaneously) 2. Very good tech 
support (the owner) 3. It just works 4. very mac friendly.  The first thing to 
do is get iRegatta and NavX. They work well with this system.  I have pics of 
it installed on Flicker "scapa c&c 34r". 


Ryan Raber
Falmouth, Maine
Scapa 
C&C 34r #9
1990
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Bill Coleman]

Yes, my favorites were, Under the Boardwalk, and Up on the Roof.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 animated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Nylander
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:51 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 

Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late
'60's (friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and
made it with a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an
asym.

 

Gary

- Original Message - 

From: Martin DeYoung   

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 

Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

 

I know when I stretch back Calypso’s 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight
reach the clew is back where a 160 – 170% headsails would be.

 

Martin

Calypso

1970 C&C 43

Seattle

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.
The penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.


 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs
running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see
getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see
why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting
the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ


  _  


From: "Gary Nylander" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM


Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both
from the pole.

 

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is
worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for
reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the
bomb' last time").

 

Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

 

And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And,
a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one
may.

 

He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

 

Gary Nylander

St. Michaels MD 

  _  

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Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[Sam Salter]

Fred,

It's the Navionics map.
I've just looked at the X-Traverse website and your right it's now selling for 
$55.
But when I bought mine I bought 3 charts: Canada, US and Bahamas, Caribbean Ct 
&S. America. I seem to remember 2 were $30 and Canada was $50. But it was a 
while ago.
I'm not sure what the 1 year subscription is all about (unless it's for 
updates). I've been using mine for 3 years and I just checked it, it's still 
working. And it was working last month in the BVI's.

sam :-)


On 2013-02-14, at 4:46 PM, Frederick G Street  wrote:

> Sam -- which company's charts for that area did you get for $30?  The 
> Navionics is $59, and good for only a year, according to the iNavX website.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
> On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Sam Salter  wrote:
> 
>> I've been using iNavX and the "Caribbean & Ct and S. America" chart on my 
>> iPad for the last 3 years. Was there 3 weeks ago - BVI's.
>> I think the chart was $30 and of course the app was $50.
> 
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review - spin sock

[Martin DeYoung]

> Why was the sock ineffective? <

I use an ATN sock much of the time on Calypso.  I sometimes single-hand, often 
race doublehanded, and my idea of fully crewed is 4 to 5 POB.  Often the crew 
is inexperienced as Calypso's co-owner and I will invite almost anybody out 
sailing if they say "I've always wanted to go sailing". (I typically respond by 
looking at my watch and saying: What are you doing Saturday at 8am?)

Calypso's spinnaker is around 1800 sq ft.  When short handed the ATN sock 
allows a margin of safety and ability to recover from sail handling SNAFUs.  
The safety bit has also to do with the ability to recover a MOB or similar 
issue with the spinnaker up.  We also use a Harken roller furler for the 
headsail.

When racing I am referring to "club" level (AKA slow pitch, old fart class, 
Cruiser/Racer etc.).  We avoid sausage type buoy courses preferring to sail 
longer legs with a mix of upwind, downwind and reaches.

The ATN sock and Harken roller furler combo requires a modification of the 
normal set and douse process at each mark rounding.  On Calypso, the spinny 
hal'yd will wrap in the Harken furler swivel if it is not well clear.  At the 
windward mark the cockpit crew will roll up the headsail as we round.  The pole 
and spinny are rigged but still on deck. I position the pole as soon as the 
headsail is clear then hoist the spinny (in the sock).  Once I secure the 
hal'yd I double check that the sock is not twisted (ATN puts a dark color over 
the control line sleeve to make it easy to check).  When all is clear I signal 
to the cockpit to begin tensioning the sheet and afterguy while I pull the 
control line to raise the sock.

We dip pole gybe.  I move the sock control lines forward to keep them clear.  I 
bring them aft once it is clear how the leeward rounding will evolve.

At the leeward mark the sock often allows us to carry the spinny closer to the 
mark than other short handed boats.  The spinny will douse quickly under most 
conditions but avoid reaching unless the wind is very light.  About 2 boat 
lengths out I will call for the sheet/guy to be eased/released, I pull down the 
sock, and drop the sock/sail on deck being careful to avoid trapping the 
headsail sheet.  Once I clear the spinny hal'yd the headsail is rolled out even 
if the pole is still up (on the weather side).

So, ineffective compared to a non-sock set/douse with a competent crew? You 
bet.  Work great for short handed racing and cruising of a 43' boat? Yup.  
Great for deliveries, singlehanded sailing, and cruising with the family? Yes 
sir. Would I use it if I was serious about racing/winning in a competitive 
fully crewed fleet? Nope.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

Tom,

WHy was the sock ineffective?  I'm thinking of getting one, mostly for cruising.
You are right.  There will likely be a penalty, but no one knows what it will 
be.  I suspect the longer the pole the greater the penalty.  I've done inside 
and outside gybes  without a pole.  The outside is easier unless you have  good 
crew.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 13, 2013, at 9:32 PM, TOM VINCENT 
mailto:tvince...@msn.com>> wrote:
Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with practice. The sprit should make it 
much easier to gybe, as I understand I can do an inside gybe with the sprit. 
The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. 
When we are on a broad reach the boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 
degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review + Drifters

[Martin DeYoung]

Did the Drifter's sing "Down in the Jib slot"?  How about "By the lee" (i.e. 
You got me broach'n and a gybe'n, rock'n and a roll'n .. by the lee, by by .. 
by by  the lee)?

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Yes, my favorites were, Under the Boardwalk, and Up on the Roof.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 [animated_favicon1]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Nylander
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:51 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late '60's 
(friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and made it with 
a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an asym.

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Stus-List DMK WiFi

[r...@fvprovidian.net]

Flicker "Scapa 34r" sorry


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Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[Colin Kilgour]

If you want cheap charts, I hear the USS Guardian has some available.

:-)



On 2/14/13, Sam Salter  wrote:
> Fred,
>
> It's the Navionics map.
> I've just looked at the X-Traverse website and your right it's now selling
> for $55.
> But when I bought mine I bought 3 charts: Canada, US and Bahamas, Caribbean
> Ct &S. America. I seem to remember 2 were $30 and Canada was $50. But it was
> a while ago.
> I'm not sure what the 1 year subscription is all about (unless it's for
> updates). I've been using mine for 3 years and I just checked it, it's still
> working. And it was working last month in the BVI's.
>
> sam :-)
>
>
> On 2013-02-14, at 4:46 PM, Frederick G Street  wrote:
>
>> Sam -- which company's charts for that area did you get for $30?  The
>> Navionics is $59, and good for only a year, according to the iNavX
>> website.
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Sam Salter  wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using iNavX and the "Caribbean & Ct and S. America" chart on my
>>> iPad for the last 3 years. Was there 3 weeks ago - BVI's.
>>> I think the chart was $30 and of course the app was $50.
>>
>> ___
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>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Rick Brass]

As I said in the post, I was quoting the Chesapeake Bay PHRF rules for a boat 
with a bowsprit, rather than a pole.  It goes without saying that your local 
PHRF rules may be different.

 

Rick Brass

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:50 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

 

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Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVI

[sam . c . salter]

Yeah, but I'm sure they've not been getting the updates!Sam :-) From: Colin KilgourSent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:49 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List electronic charts for the BVIIf you want cheap charts, I hear the USS Guardian has some available.:-)On 2/14/13, Sam Salter  wrote:> Fred,>> It's the Navionics map.> I've just looked at the X-Traverse website and your right it's now selling> for $55.> But when I bought mine I bought 3 charts: Canada, US and Bahamas, Caribbean> Ct &S. America. I seem to remember 2 were $30 and Canada was $50. But it was> a while ago.> I'm not sure what the 1 year subscription is all about (unless it's for> updates). I've been using mine for 3 years and I just checked it, it's still> working. And it was working last month in the BVI's.>> sam :-)>>> On 2013-02-14, at 4:46 PM, Frederick G Street  wrote:>>> Sam -- which company's charts for that area did you get for $30?  The>> Navionics is $59, and good for only a year, according to the iNavX>> website. Fred Street -- Minneapolis>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^( On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Sam Salter  wrote:> I've been using iNavX and the "Caribbean & Ct and S. America" chart on my>>> iPad for the last 3 years. Was there 3 weeks ago - BVI's.>>> I think the chart was $30 and of course the app was $50. ___>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com>-- Sent from my mobile device___This List is provided by the C&C Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com

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