Well said Patrick and may I add-every person reading this is a good corporate citizen.
Sent from my iPad On Dec 24, 2010, at 12:43 AM, JimD <rasterd...@comcast.net> wrote: > Well, once you get your mind right zip ties just might be the preferred > solution in many > applications. Nuts, screws, and washers are so yesterday. > ...as you can see, I'm converted. > -JimD > > On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:15 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > >> I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties >> if you can find something that works and looks better without (third >> condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop >> rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly >> sturdier and, IME, look better in most places. >> >> Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill >> (What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to >> the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that >> and dress them up accordingly. >> >> OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene >> Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course >> -- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better >> off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively >> good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits. >> >> There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now >> I feel better. >> >> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:36 PM, erik jensen <bicyclen...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> robert, >>> >>> for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the >>> need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting >>> zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this >>> list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of >>> the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring. >>> >>> erik >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler <zeidler.rob...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are >>>> pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some >>>> elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's >>>> experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up >>>> with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare >>>> thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD <rasterd...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do >>>>> so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. >>>>> They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. >>>>> Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing >>>>> wire. >>>>> -JimD >>>>> On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler <zeidler.rob...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic >>>>> >>>>> ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few >>>>> basic >>>>> >>>>> tools and use the correct fasteners. For a "get-you-home" or temp >>>>> repair, >>>>> >>>>> OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's "hack". >>>>> >>>>> I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with "a >>>>> job and bicycle prorities", the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell >>>>> bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of "hack". For evidence, >>>>> I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed >>>>> a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all >>>>> manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also >>>>> look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on "Beausage" (a word I >>>>> still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because >>>>> it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is >>>>> well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint >>>>> worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. >>>>> >>>>> While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or >>>>> fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply >>>>> because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for >>>>> those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. >>>>> >>>>> I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. >>>>> >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> oakland, ca >>> bikenoir.blogspot.com >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick Moore >> Albuquerque, NM >> For professional resumes, contact >> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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