The voice of reason has mostly prevailed in my opinion, which is the sentiment that the right approach is not to worry.
Trying to be as objective as possible, AJ has contributed to the Puppet community. He has submitted patches, triaged bugs and been helpful in both IRC and email. He is still quite helpful in #puppet, and though sometimes a tad snarky, he's not overtly subversive. He made a comment when chef was only about a week old that he was surprised that more people weren't changing or interested in chef from Puppet (I believe this was in #chef, which I usually join and occasionally participate in). There is a psychlogy to constantly convincing others of things in order to convince ourselves. *shrug* The bottom line is chef exists for a complicated set of social, economic and technical reasons. I won't pretend to understand them all or that some of the circumstances are not personally emotive. That's all spilt milk under the bridge, as it were... While some of the motivation for chef is clearly economic, I think 'sleazy' is a bit harsh. Both of these frameworks are released as free and open source. What long term business models evolve from that remain to be seen. Is Ruby stealing people from Python or C++? The long term value of Reductive Labs and Opscode are going to be determined by execution and intangibles, not subtle differences in how to solve a technology problem. And to be clear, that's really what we are talking about. I have read enough chef code, cookbooks and discussion, in addition to having the context of discussions in this mailing list, to know chef admittedly learned a lot of lessons from Puppet. In my opinion, there were also some lessons that were ignored. The fact is this is 2009. Information flows at the speed of light. With just a tiny bit of effort, people can find whatever they want, plus everything related to that in seconds. I can't fully explain what I mean by this now, but Puppet has and will derived benefit from chef and Opscode, directly and indirectly. If nothing else, chef helped us to focus. There is plenty of stuff going on behind the scenes and there is no point trying to police the flow of information on public lists and channels. Puppet is awesome, except when it isn't, and the best way to move things forward is to address those and get back to making more awesome. That's what we need to be worried about. Just more awesome, this is not a zero sum game. 0.02 Andrew On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Luke Kanies <l...@madstop.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > The underlying assumption of membership in any community is that your > participation is at worst neutral, and if possible positive. > Communities, online or off, generally do what they can to protect > themselves from detrimental influences, which is where policies, > politeness, moderators, and all that come into play. > > Puppet's community has been both fortunate and awesome, in that it > requires almost no moderation or control; we've only had to kick a > couple of people out of our IRC channel and they were clearly just > insane or spammers, and we've never had to remove anyone from our > mailing list other than spammers. > > We've recently had some problems where one or two people are > maintaining their presence in the Puppet community solely as a way to > recruit people out of Puppet and into their community, at the expense > of ours, and I think we need a straightforward community policy on this. > > Overlapping communities are awesome, and I'm all for your encouraging > Puppet community members to join other communities *in addition to > ours*, but it seems a bit insane for us to support people coming into > our community just to evangelize competing products and communities. > > My take is that if your participation in our community is *solely* for > purposes of shrinking it by drawing people into your community at the > expense of ours, then you should be kicked from our community. > > What do others think? Should it be acceptable to privately contact > members of our community, encouraging them to leave? > > -- > Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. > -- H. L. Mencken > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
