On 12/22/11 3:59 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: > On 22.12.2011 04:24, Richard Damon wrote: >> I also have one web hosting provider that basically does NOT provide >> outgoing SMTP service, they specifically state that they expect you to >> be using your ISPs SMTP server to be sending out your email. (They do >> provide a very throttled outgoing SMTP server if you really need it). > no it is not this way > > for such cases we use sender dependent-relayhosts with authentication > in our admin-backend, so WE NEVER directly submit mail with foreign > senders, the customer can use our server and we do not break SPF So where should I have submitted the email I described? Remember, I was describing a case where example.org was on a low cost hosting plan with very limited outbound SMTP availability. Are you going to require that ALL host providers MUST provide unlimited sender dependent-relayhosts with authentication for every domain that is hosted on their machine? (Who are you expecting to pay for this service), or are you going to say that small non-profits like this are going to be required to pay significantly more to get hosting plans that support this? Note that currently it is quite possible that the non-profit to be using 0 cost hosting that is being donated by someone on their hosting plan (I know I donate space to several non-profits on my personal web site), so raising the requirements may have a large impact on availability to these small organizations. >> In this environment, for an ISP to say that your outgoing emails must be >> from "their" domain, would be unacceptable, and cause a loss of business. > and that is way ISPs often blacklisted and in some baclklists > even CUSTOMERS of this ISP which does not show any reaction > to complaints because they could chosse one who does > > "ISP" and "would be unacceptable" is somehow dumb because you > are not realizing that this is a no-go - why? because if ONE > customer is infected by malware this starts to send with > spoofed senders and burn down the reputation of this poorly > setup host - so who wil send about servers the half world > throws away mails from them? Yes, the ISP needs to be responsive. Just blocking emails not from the ISP's domain is NOT enough to keep them from being a spam source, after all, the spam bot could always NOT fake the sender and still send out all the spam, it just make it easier for people to know who to complain to, but if they won't respond that doesn't matter. If they are responsive, it doesn't really matter if they allow responsible "fake" sender emails. They can do a few basic checks like check the SPF record of the domain in the From field to make sure they are allowed to send such an email. It also may make sense to apply a rate limit to foreign senders that haven't been pre-registered (and maybe even to drop that rate under suspicious activity like sending with a sender that violates SPF).
> if i have a domain i have a mailserver respsonsible for this domain > if i want to send mails with f...@mydomain.tld i have to use this server > there is no "if" and "but", accept it or live with the problems > Until EVERY domain supports this, it is NOT a case of being "poorly setup" for an ISP to support its customers. -- Richard Damon
