This is also part of the vision document. Now first SubOSProcess should
work on windows.
Then Guillermo is RIGHT.
We will continue to work on
- creating a pharo minimal image
- producing configurations
- creating one image with default loaded configurations.
You see the two objectives are not antagonists.
Now you should all stop to think about Pharo a being one image. Pharo
should be
- a minimal core
- a nicely tested distribution
- potentially one validated configuration we all like.
But it cannot be a monolithic system where people create dependency hell
without even noticing it.
Stef
Le 28/10/16 à 15:29, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit :
For what it is worth, I am with Dimitris on this: sub shell execution is so
fundamental that it should be a standard part of the image. I always thought
that that was the goal of the new OSSubProcess.
On 28 Oct 2016, at 15:25, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
For those not experienced with other language let me offer here an explanation
why having something like OSProcess is vastly important.
Coding even before the time of Smalltalk has been tied to the command line,
even in this day all languages come with the ability of the command line to use
them and them to use the command line.
Since increasing the size of our community is paramount to the acceleration of
the growth and evolution of pharo , it is also paramount to smooth out the
learning curve of Smalltalk. In order to do that we must offer a familiar
environment to these coders , especially in the case where Pharo offers no real
alternative.
Arguing that just because Smalltalk offers a different way of doing things ok
to ignore what others are been doing, is an excuse destined to collapse on
itself when Smalltalk for decades and still even Pharo fails to offer , not
only good alternatives but even bad ones , in case of command line.
Which means that currently Pharo offers no real alternative for functionality
that is offered via the command line, that means:
1) No library to deal with Git directly , Gitfiletree does this through the
command line
2) No command line alternative for interaction with a vast array of software
like VLC, ImageMagick, video converters, audio converters , programming
languages etc etc
3) Even when we take a look at pharo ecosystem the command like reigns supreme,
for example a trip to the pharo website success stories make its clear that by
far the most popular platform for commercial pharo apps is the web . Guess what
tool the web developers use the most ? Yeap the command line. We make the life
of those people that want to use pharo professionally really really hard.
Programming and coding is about covering a vast array of scenarios and maybe in
a small community of a few hundred like pharo maybe its ok to ignore the
command line but I can assure you in a community like Python that is more than
2 million , it is not.
We already got command line integration for pharo outside the image , lets make the
logical next step and offer also command line support from inside the image as well.
Let's not justify the stereotype that "Smalltalk is a distant lone island, just
because" or that is outdated.
On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:25 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goub...@gmail.com>
wrote:
2016-10-28 14:12 GMT+02:00 Guille Polito <guillermopol...@gmail.com>:
But the functionality is there, it's just that it is not loaded by default.
Loading it by default implies wedding Pharo's life cycle with OS(Sub)Process'
one, and having to maintain the possibility of dependencies to OS(Sub)Process
spreading in the entire environment.
Like many of the other projects loaded by default in a Pharo image. What is
wrong with OSSubprocess or OSProcess so that they can't be treated the same?
What is wrong in executing a simple Metacello command to load it?
The fact the image doesn't come as a one download / ready to use for an average
user?
Thierry
-------- Original Message --------
I have a love and hate relationship with Pharo
this one I will put in the hate category
You expect people to use pharo when you do not offer functionality they come to
expect from the language they already use and not even offer an altervative,
say a library with similar command line functionality (See Scale).
On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:59 PM Norbert Hartl <norb...@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 28.10.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com>:
I just noticed that OSProcess misses from Pharo 6 image, it was supposed to be
replaced by OSSubProcess but this not in the image either ? What we suppose to
use to execute bash from inside pharo ?
It was never in the image. You need to install it in order to use it.
Norbert
