Yes, me too. OSProcess/SubProcess should be included in the default image.
2016-10-28 10:29 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <s...@stfx.eu>: > For what it is worth, I am with Dimitris on this: sub shell execution is > so fundamental that it should be a standard part of the image. I always > thought that that was the goal of the new OSSubProcess. > > > On 28 Oct 2016, at 15:25, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > For those not experienced with other language let me offer here an > explanation why having something like OSProcess is vastly important. > > > > Coding even before the time of Smalltalk has been tied to the command > line, even in this day all languages come with the ability of the command > line to use them and them to use the command line. > > > > Since increasing the size of our community is paramount to the > acceleration of the growth and evolution of pharo , it is also paramount to > smooth out the learning curve of Smalltalk. In order to do that we must > offer a familiar environment to these coders , especially in the case where > Pharo offers no real alternative. > > > > Arguing that just because Smalltalk offers a different way of doing > things ok to ignore what others are been doing, is an excuse destined to > collapse on itself when Smalltalk for decades and still even Pharo fails to > offer , not only good alternatives but even bad ones , in case of command > line. > > > > Which means that currently Pharo offers no real alternative for > functionality that is offered via the command line, that means: > > 1) No library to deal with Git directly , Gitfiletree does this through > the command line > > 2) No command line alternative for interaction with a vast array of > software like VLC, ImageMagick, video converters, audio converters , > programming languages etc etc > > 3) Even when we take a look at pharo ecosystem the command like reigns > supreme, for example a trip to the pharo website success stories make its > clear that by far the most popular platform for commercial pharo apps is > the web . Guess what tool the web developers use the most ? Yeap the > command line. We make the life of those people that want to use pharo > professionally really really hard. > > > > Programming and coding is about covering a vast array of scenarios and > maybe in a small community of a few hundred like pharo maybe its ok to > ignore the command line but I can assure you in a community like Python > that is more than 2 million , it is not. > > > > We already got command line integration for pharo outside the image , > lets make the logical next step and offer also command line support from > inside the image as well. Let's not justify the stereotype that "Smalltalk > is a distant lone island, just because" or that is outdated. > > > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:25 PM Thierry Goubier < > thierry.goub...@gmail.com> wrote: > > 2016-10-28 14:12 GMT+02:00 Guille Polito <guillermopol...@gmail.com>: > > But the functionality is there, it's just that it is not loaded by > default. > > > > Loading it by default implies wedding Pharo's life cycle with > OS(Sub)Process' one, and having to maintain the possibility of dependencies > to OS(Sub)Process spreading in the entire environment. > > > > Like many of the other projects loaded by default in a Pharo image. What > is wrong with OSSubprocess or OSProcess so that they can't be treated the > same? > > > > > > What is wrong in executing a simple Metacello command to load it? > > > > The fact the image doesn't come as a one download / ready to use for an > average user? > > > > Thierry > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > >> I have a love and hate relationship with Pharo > >> this one I will put in the hate category > >> > >> You expect people to use pharo when you do not offer functionality they > come to expect from the language they already use and not even offer an > altervative, say a library with similar command line functionality (See > Scale). > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:59 PM Norbert Hartl <norb...@hartl.name> > wrote: > >> > >> > Am 28.10.2016 um 13:17 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis < > kilon.al...@gmail.com>: > >> > > >> > I just noticed that OSProcess misses from Pharo 6 image, it was > supposed to be replaced by OSSubProcess but this not in the image either ? > What we suppose to use to execute bash from inside pharo ? > >> > >> It was never in the image. You need to install it in order to use it. > >> > >> Norbert > >> > >> > > > > >
