On 06-10-2014 14:20, Matti Karnaattu wrote: > I strongly disagree. > > In server side there is vast amount of different software stacks build > top of C library and they are incompatible. Running PHP code top of > Java stack just doesn't work. But none of them *require* javascript to function. > > In client side, there has ongoing for several years a huge shift where > ~all client code runs top of HTML/JS. And this is very remarkable > because client side code doesn't any longer care what is below that > HTML/JS environment. The umbilical cord for C language stack or OS is > cut off, and practically all major players in IT-industry are committed > for that. Of course it's nice to have a standard on the browsers and they, almost, always speak the same language. But there will always be an umbilical cord with C. Even the almighty browser need an OS to run on top of it. I don't see that changing in the near future. > > Imagine that if late ninetees, whole IT industry has decided to cut off > all legacy and start to compile only Java byte code to Java API. All > applications work every computer without recompiling, and Java runtime > removes hardware and OS dependency, isolating all applications to > sandboxes that restrict memory, disk space, filesystem access etc. > > That would have been great, but Sun Microsystem withdraw from > standardization process, Microsoft implementation was totally > incompatible, and while Java was proprietary it was not accepted by open > source communities any more than Sun Microsystem competitors. It would never happen. Java isn't all that great and even if Sun painted it gold, it would never take off. There is a reason why the web is dominated by scripting languages these days. And the reason isn't why sun didn't pushed for standardization, or anythin like that. Is because java sucks. > > But now, it is a totally new game. Javascript is standard, there is open > source implementations and they are compatible. World is changed that > HTML/JS is global standard for application frontends. > > And then there is local 'standards', "ecosystems", if there is need to > make exclusive application for Apple or something. These competing local > standards keep development running. On the web, everybody should speak the same language. And that's a good thing. What is not a good thing is to have just one standard. That's never good. > Maybe one in thousand. These were more popular back then when > computers were slow and browsers immature, something like 7 years ago. > > Past two years, almost no one used these because applications doesn't > work without JS. Well, if you take just the downloads of the tor browser alone, there are a lot of people using noscript. You're speaking bullshit. Things are turning in the oposite direction. Sites that enhance the privacy of their users, will get competitive advantage. > You can't create applications without JS. Example, think about how > mapping software are done with realtime pathfinding. Cosmetic things that aren't needed unless you're using a mobile browser, even then, you would probably be using an app. > Disabling Javascript is like disabling ability to run modern application > software. It is same if I just turn off computer. It is then secured. A great deal in which javascript is used is to make cosmetic things pop in your browser that you really doesn't need for getting what you need: information. There are good uses of it of course, but it's not needed for making a great application. > So it is better to download unknown application binary from when you > like to see map? And think about effort to make that application to > Android API, Cocoa, GTK+ 2, Qt and WinRT. Yes. It is better. It's made for that. The problem with javascript, that we are pointing and you're not listening, is that you don't control what is run. If I download a binary application, even if it's not ideal, I can inspect what it's doing with debuggers, network capture, etc. It's not the best thing, but you can, if you want to. With JS when I go to a site, they starting pulling third parties scripts, that pull others, and others. And it's a nightmare to see what's happening. > > Or, just make application to HTML/JS and that run everywhere in > sandbox without hassle. Portability matters. That's the job of the browser, and things are headed that way. But until we get there, I'll keep using noscript.
Cheers, [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
