Hi Tim,
Tomorrow I can try turning VoiceOver on before I open Safari. My
head hurts too much tonight. Yes, I tried the training thin g three times,
and couldn't even get it to work in the training module. I've printed a
ten page list of commands, a 30 page list of commands, and a whole bunch of
other stuff to no avail. I'm old. Very old.
Even as a former web designer, I have no idea what a web rotor, web spot,
or half of those other terms are. I used to write CSS and HTML. I don't
recognize the visible page as HTML, rather as text, so some terms are
likely flipping.
I need a step by step guide. I'll create one myself, if I have to.
Somehow, no matter what key combination I try, and the VO arrow, or VO
shift arrow mostly beeps at me. There must be a setting wrong somewhere.
It shouldn't be that hard to figure out. How did anyone ever figure it out
with a rocket science degree?
Your notes should help me a lot.
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 4:43:39 PM UTC-5, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>
> Hi April,
>
> As others have mentioned, I believe that you're approaching this from a
> more difficult prospective than necessary. When you turn off VoiceOver
> (VO) before starting Safari, you're causing VO to behave different than
> most people on this list would experience. That is, if you start Safari
> while VO is already on, then VO usually will automatically be focused in
> the HTML area. When you turn VO on after the fact, VO focus is at the most
> upper level it can be. By the way, have you used the VoiceOver QuickStart
> guide r looked through the VoiceOver commands? While VO is on, press the
> VO keys (ctrl and option) along with the letter h and there's some very
> helpful material there for you.
>
> But, I believe that some explaining would benefit you here as well, so,
> we'll start with some VO Safari basics:
>
> 1. When VoiceOver (VO) is turned on and you wish to navigate within
> Safari, you essentially have layers of items that you can deal with. As
> you use VO-right/left or VO-up/down around the Safari screen, VO will
> announce things like "Toolbar", Web-page name followed by HTML Content,
> various Sidebars and Close, Minimize, Zoom buttons. Things like Toolbars
> and Sidebars require you to dig a level down to know what's there. In VO
> language, that is "Interacting With" and item. So, pressing VO-shift-down
> arrow Interacts with the item and drills you down into that level of items.
> You can then navigate with VO-left/right/up/down to determine the
> available items at that level. Once you are at a lower level of items, for
> example within the Toolbar, you only here about that level unless you press
> VO-shift-up arrow to Stop Interacting with the Toolbar or that specific
> level of items.
>
> When you hear VO announce "Web-page name HTML Content", that is the area
> where all the web content resides. Interact with that area then use
> VO-left/right/up/down to navigate around and VO-space or your return key to
> activate a given link. You can also use the tabkey to move between links
> but remember that when using the tabkey, you will likely miss any textual
> or other content.
>
> Another thing that you may find beneficial is the cmd-l command. This
> command moves focus to the Address/Search field. So, pressing cmd-l, then
> typing "www.google.com" followed by the return key will send you to
> Google's home page. And, pressing cmd-l and entering "VoiceOver commands"
> followed by return will do a Google search for this phrase and give the
> results within the HTML Content area.
>
> This is a start for you, and remember that VO is designed to be able to
> use the same command structure no matter what application you're using.
> So, learning basic VoiceOver navigation is essential and will actually
> make your experience much less frustrating.
>
> HTH.
>
> Later...
>
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Donna Goodin <donia...@me.com <javascript:>>
> wrote:
>
> April,
>
> I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why
> you're taking it.
>
> In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever
> turned Voiceover off. You don't need to "clear" anything.
> Best,
> Donna
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown <aprilbr...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
> wrote:
>
> The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it
> back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure
> out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's
> incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple
> lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant
> jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest.
>
> Thanks,
>
> April
> .
>
> On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>
>> April,
>>
>> First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for
>> nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get
>> out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure
>> you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect.
>>
>> First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off.
>>
>> Here’s how to get in to book marks.
>>
>> 1. Open Safari.
>>
>> 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure.
>>
>> 3. Now, press b for book marks.
>>
>> 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark
>> folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it.
>>
>> Want to edit your book Marks?
>>
>> Do this.
>>
>> 1. Open safari.
>>
>> 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window.
>>
>> You should know enough by now to take it from there.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind
>> built-in!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user!
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown <aprilbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I opened Safari.
>> I turned VoiceOver on.
>> After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks.
>> Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed,
>> and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking.
>>
>> I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again.
>>
>> Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to
>> an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it
>> highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh?
>>
>> So, I closed and turned it all off again.
>>
>> Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned
>> VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to
>> content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need
>> read to me, and it will then work.
>>
>> That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today.
>>
>> Back to writing.
>>
>> And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random
>> list.
>>
>> So far, to get it on Safari, I have:
>> Step 1: Open Safari
>> Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver
>> Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And
>> yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did
>> once.
>>
>> And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting?
>> I can't comprehend low tones.
>>
>>
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