Excellent info thanks. There is actually quite a move in the UK for people to use styled Word documents as a means of delivering accessible information. These do have some very good features. I was entirely happy with them in Word 2003, which is a brilliant word processor, but I really can't work out how to edit them into something I want to use in Word 2007. I have looked and looked all round the thing, and cannot work it out at all. Office 2003 was a great, great suite, and I know that Mac apps look and feel more like that than Office 2007. I pity anybody who has to learn menus and ribbons from scratch now!
Cheers Dave -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rose Morales Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:08 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver I had to laugh while reading that message, Isaac. Ironically, I wrote that while dealing with a migraine I already had for four or five hours. Yes, I did go to business school and was given the opportunity to study Office XP very extensively. For those of you who have never seen Office XP (Also known as Office 2002), it looks very similar to Office 2003. The extra features in 03 seem to mainly deal with XML support. I played with Measure Up at school and was given a copy to take home. I was surprised to see how accessible it actually is. It's a great tool for testing out your skills in Office. I have the Microsoft Specialist Study GUide here for Office 03. That thing fills in the gaps of what I don't know about Office after that program. Before taking that program, I honestly didn't have as much of an appreciation for Office as I do now. I thought, what could a program like this teach me that I don't already know? I was pleasantly surprised to learn so much from the classes I took. These are the reasons why I can appreciation the beauty of having an equivalent for Office that we as Voiceover users can make use of on the mac. You may be pleased to know that Text Edit creates, opens, and edits a variety of formats: .txt, .rtf, .doc, .docx, .rtfd, .odt, .webarchive, .html and .xml. However, you should also be aware that Text Edit does not support all of Word's features. According to the reviews from the page I previously posted a link to, the same goes for Pages. If you're only doing basic word processing, this shouldn't be an issue. The worst thing which could happen might be that you have to reformat your document by picking new fonts and changing how your paragraphs are formatted. I could see this being a pain if you're using styles, but your average user generally doesn't. On Sep 27, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Isaac Obie wrote: > Hi Rose, > do you have any tylenol or Leave? I got a headache readin' your dissertation on MS Word! I don't really need a spellchecker! I honestly don't! If I have any typos it's because my fingers didn't press hard enough! > I have Word97 on all my windows machines. I use it mostly to convert .doc files to text files for my notetakers. > all I ever write mostly is grocery lists and letters and they're not fancy letters either! Plain text and straight to the point! I'll be doing the same with the mac! > Rose, do you have stock in Microsoft? How many shares? how much are they going for today? About sixty bucks a share? I am guessing.... > You sound like you went to business management school. I've never seen such a dissertation on an office suite before! I had to read it to the end. Not even Ester and Anne robbinson talk in such depth! Whew! I think I'll take four more tylenols! :) :) > I am going to save this one! this is a keeper! > Isaac > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rose Morales" <nothingbutl...@gmail.com> > To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 8:15 AM > Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver > > > The problem with something like Notepad is that notepad can only write text files. This is fine if you're just looking to jot down a note or ten. Hence the name notepad, :). MS Word is designed to let you format your text. Now, one could use Wordpad, but that doesn't have a spellchecker. Furthermore, MS Word is able to handle some pretty advanced word processing features: indices, table of contents, table of figures, table of authorities, outlines, bulleted lists, subdocuments, styles, track changes, tables, charts, simple excel calculations and formulas, mail merge, envelope labeling, and probably more I'm not thinking of. WHile your average MS Word user might not even know half of these features exist, there are others who simply cannot live without them. Personally, having taken a course in Office, I can certainly appreciate the idea of MS Word for mac. An awesome word processor on an even more awesome OS? That sounds lovely. Too bad that won't happen for awhile. With that being said, let's look at some of Pages notable features: numerous preloaded templates, the ability to create custom templates, easy insertion of headers and footers, styles, track changes, mail merge, footnotes, endnotes, bookmarks, tables, charts, and formulas. And Pages has the ability to export not only to word documents but epub, rtf, PDF, and html. You can't save as .docx yet, which is a pity, but you can open .docx files just fine. > > I'm not saying all this to suggest that everyone immediately love Pages. We can all agree it lacks some features which word has. Honestly, my first instinct is to fire up Word when I'm doing some intense document writing and editing. And I'm a hard core Mac girl. For my every day writing, I use Text Edit, and I love it. I call it WOrdpad on steroids because Wordpad doesn't have a spellchecker, the ability to save to PDF, or the ability to implement basic styles. At any rate, what I am suggesting is that we as Mac users (those of us with Pages at least) step back and say, okay, Pages isn't word. But what can it offer me? Is there some word processing I could be doing in Pages which I previously only did in Word? And if we don't know the answer, why not try creating that document in Pages when we're not on a time crunch? We might just surprise ourselves. In an effort to remain objective, I will also take the opportunity to include this link in my post. It is to Pages reviews on macupdate.com. > > http://www.macupdate.com/reviews.php?id=17494 > On Sep 27, 2010, at 5:51 AM, ISAAC OBIE wrote: > >> Hi Kawal, >> Frankly, I don't like programs like MS Word because it's too big for what I want to do. It's huge, clumsy and plain a pain in the posterior. I love notepad! I think Notepad can do all I want including cleaning up a file. >> Now when I really get in to the Mac I think Text edit might do the trick. I honestly don't know yet. Maybe Esther's "Simplenote" might do it. I'll have to explore that at some point. >> Isaac >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kawal Gucukoglu" <kawal_gucuko...@sent.com> >> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 4:27 AM >> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver >> >> >>> I too will be switching to I works rather than working with Microsoft Products in the future. >>> >>> >>> Kawal Gucukoglu >>> >>> On 27 Sep 2010, at 12:53 AM, gkearney <gkear...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> It is interesting to note that the ribbons were accessible, much of >>>> the user interface is as well. It is the main content areas that are >>>> not accessible. >>>> >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> On Sep 27, 6:16 am, "Dave Taylor" <davetay...@tafn.org.uk> wrote: >>>>> I bet that if they tried, they would soon realise that the ribbons would be >>>>> difficult if not impossible to implement with VO anyway. As it is, their >>>>> insistence on these awful things is one of my key drivers for making the >>>>> switch, though there are many others too. Mike, the podcast where you >>>>> install Snow Leopard is as good a demonstration as anything of how far >>>>> things have come on the Mac side, I'm afraid it is the opposite story, >>>>> almost the reverse story, on the windows side! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:03 PM >>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver >>>>> >>>>> I don't think he said it was a beta. It is very disappointing indeed, >>>>> really, Microsoft has no excuse for this one, it's not like they were not >>>>> aware of accessibility and voice over, they just chose not to do anything >>>>> with it. Apple has created a built in screen reader and provided the APIs to >>>>> make programs accessible, Microsoft has definitely shown their interest in >>>>> this. At least on the mac, there are alternatives that will handle Microsoft >>>>> Office files, namely iwork and open office. >>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:18 PM, M. Taylor wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Greg, >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you so much for providing this info. >>>>> >>>>>> I cannot begin to relay how sad and disappointed I am at the news of >>>>>> Microsoft's Office 2011 VoiceOver inaccessibility. >>>>> >>>>>> Wow! >>>>> >>>>>> You know, when I installed the very first beta of Windows 7, it was >>>>>> completely accessible. That is to say, as soon as one launched the >>>>>> installation program for Windows 7, a very clear voice prompt asked if >>>>> audio >>>>>> assistance was required. This came as a total surprise to me, to say the >>>>>> least. I answered in the affirmative and was able to install Windows 7 >>>>>> without any sighted assistance, whatsoever. I installed that first beta >>>>> on >>>>>> three of my computers. By the way, the voice that was used to guide me >>>>>> through the setup was not that of Narrator--it was much clearer. >>>>> >>>>>> Astonishingly, with the release of the next beta of Windows 7, this >>>>> feature >>>>>> was removed. I was shocked, disappointed, and angry, to say the least. >>>>> >>>>>> It was then that I began considering purchasing a Macintosh. >>>>> >>>>>> It's been much too long to recall how I came to learn Microsoft's reason >>>>> for >>>>>> removing this feature but they said they removed it for security concerns; >>>>>> to which I exclaim, "TommyRot!!!!!" Or, to put it in the vernacular, >>>>>> "That's a load of crap!!!!" >>>>> >>>>>> Greg, is it possible that the final release of Office 2011 will be >>>>> VoiceOver >>>>>> accessible? I mean, you reviewed a beta, did you not? Perhaps I'm just >>>>>> grasping at straws, eh? (Smile) >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks again for giving us a proverbial "heads-up" on this one. >>>>> >>>>>> Most Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>>> mark >>>>>> - >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:22 AM >>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; macvoiceo...@freelists.org; Mary Beth >>>>>> Janes; Mike Shebanek >>>>>> Subject: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver >>>>> >>>>>> It is my sad duty to report that after getting a chance to test Microsoft >>>>>> Office 2011 for Mac that it is no more accessible in this version than in >>>>>> any of the previous versions. As in the past it is impossible to interact >>>>>> with any of the content areas of the program. You are not able to review, >>>>>> read or edit the text area in Word or Excel. >>>>> >>>>>> It should not be clear to all that Microsoft has no intention of ever >>>>> fixing >>>>>> these issues. I communicated directly with Microsoft over the same failing >>>>>> in Office 2008. The fact that after a complete rewire of the programs they >>>>>> remain inaccessible to the built in screen reader of the OS to me speak >>>>>> volumes about Microsoft's total lack of commitment to accessibility on the >>>>>> Macintosh platform and may well speak to Microsoft's general commitment to >>>>>> the platform as well. >>>>> >>>>>> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media >>>>>> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA >>>>>> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA >>>>> 6100 >>>>>> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 |www.guidedogswa.com.au >>>>>> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America) >>>>>> Email: greg.kear...@guidedogswa.com.au >>>>>> Email: gkear...@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
