Just an FYI to those of you who feel that complaining to Apple will ruin accessibility which is a very laughable premise. I just read an article on a main stream tech site where many in the sighted world have lit up the Apple forums complaining about the loss of the side bar in iTunes. I wonder if those people on that list are wondering if Apple will just cease to exist because people are complaining. Ridiculous concept. If you don't like changes to a product you have purchase it shouldn't matter if you are sighted or blind, say something. I personally don't mind losing the side bar, but would like to have it as an option and who knows maybe like the camera roll Apple will realize it made a mistake and bring it back. I am just hoping we get a couple of VoiceOver fixes in IOS 8.1 as it would actually be nice to dial a phone number on my iPhone. On Oct 19, 2014, at 7:33 PM, Buddy Brannan <bu...@brannan.name> wrote:
> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone else. Now that we > have mainstream access to mainstream products, that also means that our bugs > get stuck in the queue with everyone else's bugs. They get prioritized along > with everybody else's bugs. And they get fixed in the schedule with everybody > else's bugs. The tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility from a > mainstream manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or fixes > specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone else's > bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests get, but it's the > price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked for for years. > > Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of the change > either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if I like it less. My > like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not > it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in general; it's changed. I haven't > really had any real problems with it, generally speaking. I mostly like the > changes, apart of course for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing > significant accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day. > > Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were also horribly > broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told people who have asked me > whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told them that I have a pretty skewed view > on that, since by comparison to the early betas, it's really good, so I have > no significant complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had occasion > to look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it doesn't really read the way > they're supposed to. I expect it will get fixed in due course, but, again, on > Apple's schedule, along with everybody else's bugs, in the queue, in its > order, in priority with everybody else's bugs. Because seriously, if you > think that we're the only ones dealing with bugs, sometimes really > inconvenient bugs, you're at best naive, at worst delusional. > > Anyway, yes. We have gotten exactly what we've been asking for. That > sometimes means unpleasant side effects. Myself, I'm happy to take the > unpleasant side effects as a part of the whole package. Does this make me an > Apple apologist? Does this mean that I'm willing to settle for the crumbs > from the table, as it were, and am content with my lot as a second-class > citizen? far from it. It means I recognize that my problems are a subset of > all the problems that Apple is dealing with to make things work, sometimes in > the face of pretty significant change. > > Absolutely send notes to the accessibility team. But if you do, be specific. > If you can't be specific, don't bother, because no one can fix bugs without > specific ways to reproduce them. > > -- > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA > Phone: 814-860-3194 > Mobile: 814-431-0962 > Email: bu...@brannan.name > > > >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Pamela Francis <gypsykitt...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> In the answer to a couple of your questions, ask for a company making their >> products usable by the disabled, do you or do you not remember what sharp >> did for us with talking clocks and calculators? Do you also know that >> Panasonic makes optional talking caller ID in its cordless phones? For >> years swans foods offered all of their catalogs in braille along with their >> cooking directions as one could also read on their boxes. It is not >> unreasonable or pompous to expect to be treated the same as anyone else in >> the same store paying the same money for the same product. If you consider >> that pompous, you must be living with your parents who do everything for >> you. I do not. I've lived away from my family since 1974, then married, >> raise two children and have four grandchildren. I've been through the times >> where we didn't as much as have digital readings on elevators or braille on >> hotel room doors. I travel anywhere I want to go, do anything I want to do. >> I do not expect special treatment. I ask for what I need. >> >> Pam Francis >> >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:10 PM, The Believer <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >> >> That is a first. The general public now dictates what the disabled public >> gets? Apple develops products for the mainstream market...and they also have >> enabled these same products to be usable by the disabled. Can amy other >> comppany claim that? >> >> We all can walk into any Apple store along with the sighted general public >> and buy the same products they do and use the same products alongside them. >> >> And if we have an issue with our product, we can walk into any Apple store >> or cal their toll free number and get the same assistance. >> >> Why should we expect any different treatment? Because we are blind? That, >> IMO, is shortsightedness and perhaps even pompous. It certainly will not get >> one very far. >> >> No one is glossing over anything. On the other hand, some are over the top >> downright unreasonable. >> >> From The Believer. . . >> . . . what if it were true? >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >> >>> On 10/19/2014 2:02 PM, Pamela Francis wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I'm normally not one to complain for the sake of complaining. I am a >>> realist. I know that we as a market are a minority within Apple's customer >>> base. I will give them credit where it's due. They did take the lead in >>> accessibility. However, mainstream society has caught on to the fact that >>> Apple products are accessible to blind people. That in itself is a double >>> edge sword. None of us want to be put into a corner and told what is good >>> for us by our cited peers. we want general society to except what we can >>> use on its own merit showing them we can use products that they can use. >>> there are still those who think that Apple products are simply all we can >>> use. It's an all or nothing statement within the cited community as much as >>> it is within our community. If that same statement is made with an aside a >>> community, no one gripes. However if we say anything, we're complaining. >>> Apple has become aware of what the cited community believes it's capable of >>> doing for us, therefore they have >> become lackadaisical forcing us to settle for whatever they throw at us, as >> it has been within Windows another third-party screen readers. If I go in to >> the grocery store and purchase what is supposed to be a complete packaged >> product, get it home find out it isn't, take it back to the store; am I >> complaining because I can't see? I don't think so. >>> What I'm getting at by this rant is if there is a given feature supported >>> by a given manufacturer that is designed for us or any other accessibility >>> community, it should be fully featured and attended to with the same fervor >>> as is done for the majority of its customer base. The fact that they >>> maintain an accessibility line within itself on its face is a good thing. >>> However, if those people truly have no say as to how things are done, are >>> they there only for lipservice? I'm not willing to walk into a store, pay >>> the same price for a product that my cited peers do and not have a right to >>> complain about its functionality whether it's for me or for my cited peers. >>> We as a blind community for too many years have been told we had to settle >>> for second place. In many cases prior to the Internet we didn't have a >>> means to communicate with people are issues, therefore we were forced to >>> settle. That is no longer the case. To those who choose to regale the >>> things that Apple does without being w >> illing to admit apples faults, you are hurting all of us. Take that for what >> it's worth. >>> >>> Pam Francis >>> >>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, The Believer <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >>> >>> I did not have a disastrous experience. I had just gotten a new Macbook >>> with Mountain Lion and Mavericks came out shortly after that. And history >>> repeats itself today with Yosemite. >>> >>> There were many complaints about Mavericks. Meanwhile, I worked with ML, >>> trying to forget Windows. Finally I upgraded to Mavericks about a month >>> ago! (smiles) >>> >>> I am still learning to use the Mac but it may not take me as long to move >>> to Yosemite. Maybe a month? I will install iOS 8 at the same time but not >>> intil both are better behaved. >>> >>> From The Believer. . . >>> . . . what if it were true? >>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>> >>>> On 10/19/2014 12:15 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>> I agree. While I would stop short of placing Apple on a pedestal, as no >>>> one or company is worthy of that level of responsibility, I am realistic >>>> about the varying preferences and needs of a customer base consisting of >>>> millions of people, and I am steadfastly grateful for Apple and its >>>> integral part in allowing me to complete the essential tasks of my job and >>>> to enjoy much of what my sighted peers enjoy on a reasonably equitable >>>> playing field out of the box. >>>> I intend to write to Apple as someone who continues to appreciate its >>>> devices and software a great deal, and urge it not to forget little me and >>>> those like me. >>>> I think any "absolutist" or all-or-nothing statements do no good. >>>> I decided after a disastrous experience with Mavericks when it was first >>>> released that I would never again update immediately after a first >>>> release. I am anxious to avail myself of continuity, hand off, iBooks, and >>>> answering calls on my MacBook, but I can wait. I know for a fact that a >>>> VoiceOver lag will bother me in the extreme, and the very first thing I >>>> did was read Applevis's article on the bugs, even though I had no >>>> intention of updating right away. I am currently content, and I await >>>> Yosemite's evolution. >>>> Christine >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
