To sum it all up, Seems to me that too many of us blind people want everything for nothing and we think the world should pay attention only to us and cater to only our needs because it's all about us 24/7. Got news for y'all. It isn't. Just deal with it. IF you want to operate in the sighted (normal) world, you've got to understand that that world isn't going to give you anything for nothing. You can't have it both ways. Now, with respect to Mac OS10.10. Some of us see issues that others of us do not. Some, like me, choose to wait a little before upgrading, and others don't. Sometimes, a difference in behavior that we think is a bug is actually nothing more than a different way of doing things that we just haven't figured out yet: and, because of that, we complain it's a bug. Frankly, this tends to speak more to our true proficiency as Voice OVer users than it does the proper functioning of the OS. In other words, to speak quite candidly, a more proficient Voice over user will find the new way of doing things and post it here to the list or to another. The less proficient will whine it's a bug and holler at Apple for not making it wash the dishes for them.
Sincerely, the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user! Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus! On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:10 PM, The Believer <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: > That is a first. The general public now dictates what the disabled public > gets? Apple develops products for the mainstream market...and they also have > enabled these same products to be usable by the disabled. Can amy other > comppany claim that? > > We all can walk into any Apple store along with the sighted general public > and buy the same products they do and use the same products alongside them. > > And if we have an issue with our product, we can walk into any Apple store > or cal their toll free number and get the same assistance. > > Why should we expect any different treatment? Because we are blind? That, > IMO, is shortsightedness and perhaps even pompous. It certainly will not get > one very far. > > No one is glossing over anything. On the other hand, some are over the top > downright unreasonable. > > From The Believer. . . > . . . what if it were true? > ancient.ali...@icloud.com > > On 10/19/2014 2:02 PM, Pamela Francis wrote: >> Hi, >> I'm normally not one to complain for the sake of complaining. I am a >> realist. I know that we as a market are a minority within Apple's customer >> base. I will give them credit where it's due. They did take the lead in >> accessibility. However, mainstream society has caught on to the fact that >> Apple products are accessible to blind people. That in itself is a double >> edge sword. None of us want to be put into a corner and told what is good >> for us by our cited peers. we want general society to except what we can >> use on its own merit showing them we can use products that they can use. >> there are still those who think that Apple products are simply all we can >> use. It's an all or nothing statement within the cited community as much as >> it is within our community. If that same statement is made with an aside a >> community, no one gripes. However if we say anything, we're complaining. >> Apple has become aware of what the cited community believes it's capable of >> doing for us, therefore they have > become lackadaisical forcing us to settle for whatever they throw at us, as > it has been within Windows another third-party screen readers. If I go in to > the grocery store and purchase what is supposed to be a complete packaged > product, get it home find out it isn't, take it back to the store; am I > complaining because I can't see? I don't think so. >> What I'm getting at by this rant is if there is a given feature supported by >> a given manufacturer that is designed for us or any other accessibility >> community, it should be fully featured and attended to with the same fervor >> as is done for the majority of its customer base. The fact that they >> maintain an accessibility line within itself on its face is a good thing. >> However, if those people truly have no say as to how things are done, are >> they there only for lipservice? I'm not willing to walk into a store, pay >> the same price for a product that my cited peers do and not have a right to >> complain about its functionality whether it's for me or for my cited peers. >> We as a blind community for too many years have been told we had to settle >> for second place. In many cases prior to the Internet we didn't have a means >> to communicate with people are issues, therefore we were forced to settle. >> That is no longer the case. To those who choose to regale the things that >> Apple does without being w > illing to admit apples faults, you are hurting all of us. Take that for what > it's worth. >> >> Pam Francis >> >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, The Believer <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >> >> I did not have a disastrous experience. I had just gotten a new Macbook >> with Mountain Lion and Mavericks came out shortly after that. And history >> repeats itself today with Yosemite. >> >> There were many complaints about Mavericks. Meanwhile, I worked with ML, >> trying to forget Windows. Finally I upgraded to Mavericks about a month ago! >> (smiles) >> >> I am still learning to use the Mac but it may not take me as long to move >> to Yosemite. Maybe a month? I will install iOS 8 at the same time but not >> intil both are better behaved. >> >> From The Believer. . . >> . . . what if it were true? >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >> >>> On 10/19/2014 12:15 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>> I agree. While I would stop short of placing Apple on a pedestal, as no >>> one or company is worthy of that level of responsibility, I am realistic >>> about the varying preferences and needs of a customer base consisting of >>> millions of people, and I am steadfastly grateful for Apple and its >>> integral part in allowing me to complete the essential tasks of my job and >>> to enjoy much of what my sighted peers enjoy on a reasonably equitable >>> playing field out of the box. >>> I intend to write to Apple as someone who continues to appreciate its >>> devices and software a great deal, and urge it not to forget little me and >>> those like me. >>> I think any "absolutist" or all-or-nothing statements do no good. >>> I decided after a disastrous experience with Mavericks when it was first >>> released that I would never again update immediately after a first release. >>> I am anxious to avail myself of continuity, hand off, iBooks, and answering >>> calls on my MacBook, but I can wait. I know for a fact that a VoiceOver >>> lag will bother me in the extreme, and the very first thing I did was read >>> Applevis's article on the bugs, even though I had no intention of updating >>> right away. I am currently content, and I await Yosemite's evolution. >>> Christine >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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