We will just have to wait and see, but if they are not, at least we can get the Accapella voices. Although I wonder if we will be able to switch between voices in a single user session. Will we need to create two separate accounts? One for French and one for English?
James ----- Original Message ----- From: "william lomas" <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard > > we don't even know if they are to be included. if and i mean if they > were, they will be i assume the ones that are on the ipod shuffle and > the i phone > > On 7 Jul 2009, at 22:09, James & Nash wrote: > >> >> Hi Justin, >> >> Is there anywhere that I can hear a sample of these synthesizers >> please? >> >> Take care >> >> James >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Justin Harford" <blindst...@gmail.com> >> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:42 PM >> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >> >> >>> >>> Hmm, I just went over the snow leopard description and it is true >>> that >>> it makes no mention of other synthesizers, though it does mention >>> that >>> the quick-start tutorial is localized in a number of languages. >>> Nevertheless, I hardly think supposing that it will have other >>> language synthesizers is a terribly outrageous postulation. I mean >>> just look at the technology we have in the iPhone. It is now >>> possible >>> to go through the languages menu, and hear a number of languages >>> including french, portuguese both brazilian and portugal, Spanish, >>> Chinese, italian etc all spoken. We know that the iPod shuffle also >>> has the ability to pronounce the names of songs in other languages. >>> >>> Yes I feel safe, without having tried it for myself, in asserting >>> that >>> the next version of Mac OS X will not only have language >>> localization, >>> but the synthesizers to hear that language spoken. Granted it won't >>> be as nice as Alex. It certainly would be crazy to think that Alex >>> is >>> going to be speaking anything more than English. The synthesizers >>> will be like those on the iPhone. >>> >>> Regards >>> Justin Harford >>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 11:24 AM, James & Nash wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> If that does happen, that's fantastic news. Accapella are fantastic >>>> voices >>>> but it would be cool to have French and other European and Slavic >>>> languages >>>> etc included by default. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "william lomas" <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> >>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:15 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> fair enough though we are all blind and have a right to know what >>>>> will >>>>> be included in my view >>>>> >>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 19:11, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Red flag, >>>>>> >>>>>> We are moving into grey ares. Please keep the posts NDA compliant. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7-Jul-09, at 10:46 AM, Justin Harford wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It will. >>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:13 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what I meant to say was I am not sure if voice over itself will >>>>>>>> ship >>>>>>>> with voices in italian, greek, arabic, russian polish, etc. or >>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>> we are still locked down to using acapella >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 18:07, Koumanova Rostislava wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> i did not understand this post. >>>>>>>>> i know that you have to buy the foreign languages. >>>>>>>>> rk >>>>>>>>> Il giorno 07/lug/09, alle ore 18:06, william lomas ha scritto: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it says on the site the quickstart is localised in eighteen >>>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>>> with nine new ones and with the voices you can hear it in your >>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>>> but i hope that the eighteen or so work with pre-defined >>>>>>>>>> foreign >>>>>>>>>> voices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 16:51, Simon Cavendish wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> O yes, I entirely agree. They have always acknowledged my >>>>>>>>>>> posts, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure they are trying to do their best in Braille >>>>>>>>>>> support. I >>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't be without my Mac now. No regrets switching on my >>>>>>>>>>> part! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> With best wishes, Simon >>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 16:44, James & Nash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I hear what you're saying Simon. To Apple's credit, they >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledged my messages and have offered support where they >>>>>>>>>>>> can. I >>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>> like and would continue to use Windows for things but I do >>>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>>> Mac. >>>>>>>>>>>> That's >>>>>>>>>>>> why I'm going to purchase a new one. >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Simon Cavendish" <simon.cavend...@googlemail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:34 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been e-mailing Apple accessibility regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>> providing a >>>>>>>>>>>>> broader support in refreshable Braille for other >>>>>>>>>>>>> languages. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>> Snow Leopard is going to bring this aspect to those of us >>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> benefit from it. It would certainly accelerate my leaving >>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>> behind altogether. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With best wishes >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 11:50, James & Nash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well on the Snow Leopard page there is a host of different >>>>>>>>>>>>>> features. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I remember reading that something - it may have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over - was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> localized in about 40 different languages. But I'm not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. However, if you can some way implement BRLTTY or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may get native foreign language Braille support. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux >>>>>>>>>>>>>> based, so this should not be too difficult. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "william lomas" <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:39 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there a complete list of new features? i.e. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> .do we get new language voices i wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . new braille support in other alnguages? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>> i guess we will not know these details really until the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 11:29, James & Nash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It sounds like Snow Leopard is an upgrade. Is this the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a copy of 10.5 which I bought last year so if so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be any problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Scott Howell" <s.how...@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:25 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe so, but it will be worth upgrading and the cost is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unreal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't make much since to skip this upgrade. There are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beyond accessibility to upgrade. I can guarantee you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very small price to pay for the improvements and many of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have considered or realized. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:47 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i doubt we get new voices except maybe the ones found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going to wait to upgrade i think, what I have now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UPgrading won't give us for example, access to flash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point in me upgrading since a lot of sites I use, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation which adobe have not yet incorporated into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> safari or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other web browsers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 02:53, Jenny Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yay! I'm very very glad to hear this wonderful news. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bummed I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't have a fancy trackpad. I have heard some of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gestures just sound so cool and fun. I guess I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old tech. LOL I hope to get an iPhone in the future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to wait 'til then to try gestures. Unless my getting a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens first. But as this one is still fairly newish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know by the time it comes time for me to get a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they'll of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come up with many more new and cool things. : smiley : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can't wait 'til SL comes out. I know it's not too far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds so awesome. Am keen to hear any new voices. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the UK voices. The best thing would be a UK version of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breths and all. I still think that's uber cool how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenny, first only the Aluminum MacBooks contain the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multi- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trackpad unless Apple upgrades the MacBook line- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aluminum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models are now referred to as the MacBook Pro line. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine on your model. The most significant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel processor since the Power PC chips, such as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G4/G5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines will not be supported by SL. I'd recommend >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2Gb ram, but 1Gb will get the job done. The commands, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the trackpad are the same commands you can issue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VO. It is another means to interact with the os using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to say what the future holds for such a trackpad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VO. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point is that if you have heard the iPhone demos, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how the trackpad could behave and a little >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to speculate what Apple could possibly do in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, have no fear and prepare to upgrade, it will be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Jenny Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay. So am I to understand that the macbook pro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that has this fancy mousepad thing? I got my macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> April >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 08 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it is the little white one. I adore it and have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SL to come out. Will SL even work at all on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sort >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the os will work but will VO function if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fancy mousepad thing? Are there keyboard shortcuts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doable with the mousepad? Sorry to be so abrupt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gotta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any answers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best wishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/09, Claude Renaud <cldren...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sunday, July 5, 2009, 12:31:19 PM, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JN> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JN> I've been reading the new VO features in Snow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leopard. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where di you read this please ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Claude Renaud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
