This is why I work on KiCad, I figure if I spend enough time on this I'll never make it to old age >:)
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 06:45:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: > It's hell getting old! :) > > On 2/21/2017 6:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote: > > haha your advanced life experience must be getting to you.... you even > > commented on it when it was last bought up on the list > > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg23387.html > > > > On 22 February 2017 at 12:39, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Why don't I remember that? It must not have been that way for very > >> long. In any event, I'm actually fine with changing it to a single left > >> click. We could always undo it if user's absolutely hate it. > >> > >> On 2/21/2017 1:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote: > >>> there was a time where it was single click changes colour and there > >>> were no complaints that i saw. JP changed it without consultation or > >>> comment on the list > >>> > >>> On 22 February 2017 at 07:30, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.ch...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote: > >>>>> Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where > >>>>> KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it > >>>>> that > >>>>> way forever. No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new > >>>>> users. Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc) > >>>> > >>>> A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL > >>>> these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a > >>>> new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be > >>>> different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa* > >>>> $3.24 that users would flock to it. > >>>> > >>>> Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours > >>>> and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt. > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change > >>>>> layer > >>>>> using the layer picker, and always have it hidden. Based on the > >>>>> behavior > >>>>> of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly > >>>>> reduce > >>>>> the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the > >>>>> mouse > >>>>> rather than a hotkey. > >>>>> > >>>>> -Jon > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color > >>>>>> swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to > >>>>>> dismiss the color select dialog to continue working. If we cannot come > >>>>>> up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie. > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to > >>>>>> having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they > >>>>>> inadvertently left clicked the color button? This may be a case of > >>>>>> ignorance being bliss. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote: > >>>>>>> FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started > >>>>>>> with > >>>>>>> KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how > >>>>>>> things work in other applications with layer managers I have used > >>>>>>> (ECAD, > >>>>>>> graphics, etc): > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Jon > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina > >>>>>>> <pavlina.ch...@gmail.com > >>>>>>> <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> By the way. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer- > >>>>>> manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer- > >>>>>> manager/5421> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty > >>>>>> conclusive > >>>>>>> right now ;) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote: > >>>>>>> > Sent to wrong recipient. > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote: > >>>>>>> > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote: > >>>>>>> > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit : > >>>>>>> > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip > >>>>>>> letting > >>>>>>> the user know > >>>>>>> > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click > >>>>>>> would allow > >>>>>>> > > > >> them to change the color is gone. Other than that, it > >>>>>>> looks great. I > >>>>>>> > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect. Bind has a much > >>>>>>> cleaner > >>>>>>> > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> proper way > >>>>>>> > > > >> to handle events. > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them > >>>>>>> for long > >>>>>>> > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this > >>>>>>> morning > >>>>>>> who never > >>>>>>> > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the > >>>>>>> buttons to > >>>>>>> > > > > make them work. > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens > >>>>>>> its > >>>>>>> selection > >>>>>>> > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours? > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> active layer or to change the color layer. > >>>>>>> > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours". > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is: > >>>>>>> > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the > >>>>>>> working layer. > >>>>>>> > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer, > >>>>>>> whatever you are clicking. > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the > >>>>>>> color, then a single left click should > >>>>>>> > > > open the color dialog. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer > >>>>>>> manager. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many > >>>>>>> times, > >>>>>>> when clicking inside the layer > >>>>>>> > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the > >>>>>>> active layer, especially if you are too > >>>>>>> > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of > >>>>>>> the mouse. > >>>>>>> > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was > >>>>>>> opening the dialog) > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > A wise decision is never obvious. > >>>>>>> > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not > >>>>>>> necessary a > >>>>>>> good reason. > >>>>>>> > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises) > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to > >>>>>>> make > >>>>>> an > >>>>>>> > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color > >>>>>>> well, and > >>>>>>> > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't > >>>>>>> kicad. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other > >>>>>>> applications is > >>>>>>> > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in > >>>>>> KiCad". > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > >> > >>>>>>> > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote: > >>>>>>> > > > >>> Hi, > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in > >>>>>>> Linux under new > >>>>>>> > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for: > >>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411 > >>>>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches, > >>>>>>> since they > >>>>>>> > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the > >>>>>>> button > >>>>>>> affordance > >>>>>>> > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was > >>>>>>> invisible, so it > >>>>>>> > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway. > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> * Linux as it was: > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> * OSX as it was: > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot% > >>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png > >>>>>>> <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot% > >>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic > >>>>>>> out of the > >>>>>>> > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other > >>>>>>> clients, for > >>>>>>> > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted. > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with > >>>>>>> Bind for > >>>>>>> > > > >>> consistency in that file. > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> John > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> > > > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>>> > > > >> > >>>>>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> > > > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>>>> > > > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>>>> > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > -- > >>>>>>> > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>>>> > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
