----- Original Message -----
From: "Susannah D. Rosenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [issues] Standards?? PHOOEY!!!
> JoAnne Abbott wrote:
> >
> > On Thus June 29 kelly replied;
> >
> > >Standards are the straitjacket of innovation!!!!!
> >
> > The problem isn't standards per se but rather a combination of
> > unthinking adherence to past standards and excessively slow
> > standards-making bodies.
> >
> > I disagree that standards are not at fault.
> >
> > I agree that Standards bodys are unthinking and excessively slow.
> > They are Commitees.
>
> you've never been to an IETF meeting, have you?
>
> they aren't commitees. they're roving flamewars. :)
> > Well-documented industry standards increase
> > competition, lower consumer costs, increase quality, and accelerate
> > innovation.
> >
> > I agree with everything but the last two words.
> >
> > I am not concerned with "me too-ism" it does all the stated points
> > except innovation.
> >
> > The clarity button on my word processor seems broken but I'll try.
> >
> > The web and internet is composed of a bunch of protocols.
> > These are not standards but the agreement that if I send this
> > I mean xyz and I expect abc back.
>
> um.
>
> they /ARE/ standards.
>
> IETF /RFCs/. hello? anyone? bueller?
>
> no offense, but you obviously know jack shit about how the net actually
> works.
>
> ipv4 is a protocol, but it is also a standard. tcp works by /standards/,
> including which-port-does-what. it's not always a stringently enforced
> standard -- which is why the internet is so damn insecure. if you /had/
> stringent enforcement of the tcp port standards (among other things), so
> that, for example, smtp packets /ONLY/ were sent to port 25, things
> would be much harder to crack. (actually, this is part of ipsec. which
> is a standard). frame-relay encapsulation, which i know for a fact is
> used on /at least/ half of the dedicated lines on the net, is a
> /STANDARD/. bgp is a standard.
>
> IETF creates /standards/. ARIN (when it isn't busy being the IP SS),
> creates /standards/.
>
> look at the OSI seven-layer network model sometime. if you absolutely
> refuse to aknowledge that most common internet protocols are in fact
> standards, take a look somewhere lower down on the seven layer burrito.
>
> frame-relay, sonet, ATM, etc, etc, are standards, maintained by various
> bodies.
>
> MAC addresses on network equipment, types of cable and how they are
> terminated, the type of copper wire that carry data lines -- it's all
> based on standards. E1 vs T1, anyone?
>
> i know that "RTFM" is apparently the TLA O' Doom around here (TOD!), but
> sheesh. this whole
> internet-as-a-free-wheeling-bastion-of-chaos-that-just-magically-works
> bullshit has /GOT/ to /GO/.
>
> and if you don't believe me, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask. :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
Since Ms Rosenberg did indeed offend me with the language I will
attempt to reply civilly.
Point A. No I don't know all about the inner workings of the present day
internet. All I remember about using it in 1959 to download Diracs theorem
from MIT to Berkeley for my masters. It took two hours to setup the protocol
for
a 3 min transfer.
Point B. I did not say that protocols could not become defacto standards and
be
maintained by self appointed committees.
Point C. The Biggie. ALL those standards prevent innovation. Problem? Naw
just add another layer or reset the standards to hide it.
JoAnne Abbott C.E.T. MSEE, DSM
To meditate on;
We have met the enemy
and they is us.
from POGO by Al Capp
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