El 18/9/25 a las 7:13, Alexis escribió:
i've given evidence to support my claims, which others can test for themselves. The only 'evidence' you've provided is the Xwayland man page, which does not say what you think it's saying; and even if it was, again, what you think it's saying can be tested by others. Whereas you seem to have it as an act of faith that you're the only one who _really_ understands how Wayland works, and anyone disagreeing with you - even the Wayland project itself - is wrong.
Evidences?? which evidences have you given can you point at least one?Wayland proyects developers will talk always that their software is great, since they are their developers, third party recognize one software as good or bad, not the developer, and by this reason they HAD to develope one Xorg server to use legacy software. I have never read one software developer claiming that their software is horrible.
Linus Torvalds is god, has him to be always correct by this reason??. Do you know what "ad hominem fallacy" is?Yes; my definition is basically the definition provided by the Oxford dictionary:(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
So, your claim is that as Eli Schwartz is one gentoo developer, he always is right and I'm always be wrong, is it?
Eli, one question, have you ever done RAM forensics?If not, does it mean that if I've done it (as I did) in a discussion I will always be right and you will always be wrong????
i believe that my chain of posts demonstrate that my arguments have primarily involved technically-based rebuttals, either providing technical evidence or asking technical questions, at least one of which you've not addressed: How Wayfire can start _before_ Xwayland gets started.
You did not demonstrate nothing, the only thing you demonstrate is that you think you are not using Xorg while you are using it since you are using his protocol because you need it as for gimp.
It's not 'ad hominem' to say that "On the basis of my interactions with you, I don't believe you're having this discussion in good faith". By saying that, i'm not making any claims about the correctness or otherwise of your claims.Nor does 'ad hominem' mean the same as 'argument from authority', which _seems_ to be what you actually mean here? But in referring to what Eli has said, i wasn't doing so because i believe him to be omniscient, but because he's a well-respected distro dev - he's previously been an Arch dev, cf. e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24587561 - with extensive knowledge in various areas based on many years of experience.
You point that as Eli is a gentoo developer AND I'm not... Are two fallacies in one, the first one authority one because Eli is a developer so he is always right, the other one is one Ad hominem, since I'm not a gentoo developer, I'm wrong for sure.
He knows how many things work. And _my_ years of experience of Eli - including my time on the Void team - have found his analysis of things is usually correct; i actually can't think of any instances otherwise. i've learned a lot, over the years, in reading Eli's input on various topics. He's earned my respect.
You could perfectly be a wayland mantainer, this is not a warranty that you know a lot of things. Does Xorg mantainer know how internally KMS works? Has him read linux sources to know how KMS does his job?? Or is mostly one packager that pays a lot of attention in bugs and dependencies to allow other persons use this package???. Does package maintainer do source code auditories????
Do you think Eli has read all source code of every piece of software that falls in gentoo? ¿How can he get free time to trolling in this mailing list for example if so?
You seem to be claiming that it's inappropriate to defer to people with relevant knowledge and/or expertise, as though i said "Linux is written entirely in Rust", and Linus himself said, "Um, no", and i said "Wow, ad hominem much?"
Linus revised and supervice almost all sources that falls in his hands, Eli surely no because it's impossible. Eli could control the pieces of software that falls in his hands, but surely he don't read every source code that falls in his hands, and specially pays attention in announced bugs, dependencys that the package owner says etc. And that does not mean that Eli has to now how every damned software piece works and how it does what it does.
And I have never told you that you like or not Xorg. Can you please point me when I told you this???
i literally quoted you saying in an email addressed to me, "You don't like Xorg"!You told that you were one wayland user and it's not truth you are one Xorg and wayland user. That's all, you were talking about that wayland give you whatever you need and it's not truth, since you were also using Xorg protocol, so you also need Xorg....
Yeah, time for me to bow out, although i'm sure you'll have further things to say in response to what i've written above.But i want to say something to others reading this subthread:Please keep in mind how much volunteer time is wasted by people "not in possession of any of the facts" making claims that have to be corrected by volunteers in order to minimise the amount of problems faced by people working on the basis of those claims. And it becomes increasingly frustrating to have do this again and again and again, particularly for devs who are already doing so much.Alexis.
It's worse one person that claims that it's a wayland user while is using Xorg protocol with one Xserver as Xwayland is at the same time. It's something like I'm vegan, but I eat fish 3 times per week.
--"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.' "'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' "'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. "'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."— Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
The only fact is that you claimed that wayland gave you everything you need.... while using Xorg protocol as well....
It's something like saying gnu/linux gives me everything but I use Adobe Photoshop under wine. It's called incoherency.
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