On Saturday 25 Jul 2015 17:35:51 Stroller wrote: > On Fri, 24 July 2015, at 3:35 pm, J.Rutkowski <j...@pancakebungalow.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015, at 07:56 AM, James wrote: > >> Rich, I'll be practical. Gentoo needs an installer program, like most > >> other distros if you want your rank_n_file users to entice new users. > >> … > > > > I absolutely think that an installer is necessary to attract > > newcomers and keep them. > > I recall similar discussions back around 2004. > > Gentoo was fashionable for a while then, and we had plenty of new users. > > It wasn't for the lack of installer that they went away - fashions change, > but at the end of the day it's only a certain kind of niche user who finds > Gentoo suits them long term. > > If you create a slick GUI installer, then users will only be disappointed > with they finish installing their KDE-Gentoo desktop and are told "oh, > package installs and system upgrades must be done in a terminal, and > sometimes you have to do stuff to work around these Portage blocks". > > "Why doesn't Gentoo have a nice graphical package manager?" the n00bs will > cry, "just like all the other distros!" > > What will happen when you meet that request? Complaints that, after > clicking the button in the GUI package manager, Gentoo takes much longer > to install Firefox that Ubuntu does. > > If you want to attract to Gentoo the kind of people for whom a graphical > installer is important, then IMO these are the first things you need to > address. > > Stroller.
Others mentioned it and Stroller finessed it: There are different use cases and Gentoo does not fit nicely in all of them. A GUI installer, or automated install script will suit noobs for some of whom Gentoo is not an appropriate distro, leading to disappointment and potentially bad press. In any case, I think that Sabayon would probably suit them nicely if they want to quickly dip their toes into a Gentoo-based distro. A GUI installer, or automated but configurable install script, will also suit people who need a quick VM, or cloud set up. Arguably, they should already know how to create their own VM image to suit their requirements - it's the first off that will take some time to think through, thereafter they will have their own stage-4 VM image. Nevertheless, I accept that it will offer some convenience in terms of speed. Then it is all other Gentoo users for whom the current handbook is what they learn or expect as the norm. If they are new to Gentoo, the handbook acts both as a filter for users to whom Gentoo is unsuitable and as an educational experience for those that stick with it. I am not entirely sure that people who click on three buttons to get a RHL cluster going would be flocking to Gentoo. I mean, fine they got their Gentoo cluster up & running. What then? Will they be compiling software on the cluster for each and every update? Or will they be running the updates on a test/pre-prod server and then update the cluster using the precompiled binaries? Ultimately, as Rich suggested, whoever has an itch will scratch it and scratch it in a way to provide the tools they need for their specific use case(s). As long as Gentoo does not try to imitate and duplicate the *buntu & RHL's of this world I would have nothing to complain about. Personally I am rather happy for Gentoo being as it is and this the reason I've been using it for 12 happy years. :-) -- Regards, Mick
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