On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:44PM, Pierre Smits wrote: > A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there > seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We > now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are > mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).
I fail to see how CoC has to do with the numbers you just quoted, so let's not sway the conversation that way. That said - can you quote any empirical evidences (or any evidences at all) on why %63 seems low? I have asked you this very question in a different message and would appreciate if the person who started this discussion can add some factual information to support the claim. Thank you. Cos > Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The > diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of > balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late. > > Best regards, > > > Pierre Smits > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > Based Manufacturing, Professional > Services and Retail & Trade > http://www.orrtiz.com > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> > wrote: > > > Please re-read the quote from Roy: > > > > "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior > > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs. > > We must not confuse the two." > > > > and later > > > > "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ... > > and I have no cycles to spare." > > > > Thanks, > > Roman. > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <j...@apache.org> wrote: > > > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote: > > >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation. > > >> > > >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A > > >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse > > >> meritocratic community."? > > >> > > >> I think not. > > >> > > > > > > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references: > > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > > > > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons: > > > > > > - > > > > > > it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with > > > all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of > > seeing all > > > of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater > > than > > > with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities. > > > - > > > > > > it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that > > > guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a > > > higher change of finding real-life use of the software. > > > > > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting > > > > > > - > > > > > > PMC and committer diversity > > > > > > A healthy project should survive the departure of any single > > contributor > > > or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many > > > parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and > > > committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem > > > with the diversity, then the report should include information on the > > > number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and > > > committership. > > > > > > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and > > guidelines > > > are false > > > > > > > > > I think not. > > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > > > jan I. > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project > > >> > understand how to make releases and are building community. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com > > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to > > >> >> nowhere. > > >> >> > > >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman > > >> and > > >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of > > >> intended > > >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number > > grows > > >> to > > >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither > > >> >> regarding healthiness. > > >> >> > > >> >> Best regards, > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Pierre Smits > > >> >> > > >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional > > >> >> Services and Retail & Trade > > >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com > > >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <c...@apache.org> > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list > > >> for a > > >> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project > > (back > > >> in > > >> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who > > >> want > > >> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is > > >> >>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com): > > >> >>> > > >> >>> [quote] > > >> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior > > >> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs. > > >> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a > > >> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure > > >> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that). > > >> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ... > > >> >>> and I have no cycles to spare. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment > > >> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would > > >> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed. > > >> >>> [/quote] > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Regards, > > >> >>> Cos > > >> >>> > > >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote: > > >> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 > > organisation > > >> >>>> (Gridgrain). > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and > > >> >> independece? > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Best regards, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Pierre Smits > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan < > > >> >>> dsetrak...@apache.org> > > >> >>>> wrote: > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . < > > >> >>> amareshw...@gmail.com> > > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the > > >> >>> automated > > >> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems." > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website - > > >> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/ > > >> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion - > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>> > > >> >> > > >> > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E > > >> >>>>>> . > > >> >>>>>> You might want to correct it. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding > > >> >> the > > >> >>>>>> description > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> Thanks > > >> >>>>>> Amareshwari > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan < > > >> >>>>> dsetrak...@apache.org> > > >> >>>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator, > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community > > established > > >> >>>>>> consensus > > >> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of > > proposing > > >> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Vote thread: > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>> > > >> >> > > >> > > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results: > > >> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14 > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC) > > >> >>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer) > > >> >>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer) > > >> >>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a > > >> >>> consensus > > >> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution: > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Thank you > > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC) > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best > > >> >>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the > > >> >>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management > > >> >>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of > > >> >>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to > > >> >>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of > > >> >>>>>>> information between systems. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Should be: > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> --------- > > >> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a > > high-performance, > > >> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and > > >> >>> transacting > > >> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time" > > >> >>>>> -------- > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management > > >> >>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project", > > >> >>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the > > >> >>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is > > >> >>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software > > >> >>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information > > >> >>>>>>> between systems and be it further > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" > > >> >> be > > >> >>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to > > >> >>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the > > chair > > >> >>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary > > >> >>> responsibility > > >> >>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of > > >> >>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it > > >> >> further > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and > > >> >>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the > > >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project: > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboi...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (c...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Branko Čibej (br...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (mak...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdoki...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncha...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivano...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (s...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkuliche...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznet...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (mura...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovi...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (voze...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrak...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (r...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (iste...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikho...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilin...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (a...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svlady...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Evans Ye (evan...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhda...@apache.org) > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that > > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice > > >> >> President, > > >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to > > the > > >> >>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the > > >> >>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or > > >> >>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; > > >> >>>>>>> and be it further > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby > > is > > >> >>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to > > >> >>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in > > the > > >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby > > >> >>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the > > >> >> Apache > > >> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache > > >> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache > > Incubator > > >> >>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
