Tomorow On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 2:53 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote:
> Like > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Tue, May 17, 2022, 2:44 PM Merle Lefkoff <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Western academics are mired in a culture of critique. It has severe >> limitations. >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 8:55 AM glen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Right. This is why the wet monkey theory (along with many other false >>> but useful for manipulation heuristics) fails to capture anything important >>> about "groupthink". We can re-orient Dave's no-largest-model objection >>> toward any just-so manipulative rhetoric. Of course the choice of language >>> biases the description written in it! Sheesh. And, yes, it's important to >>> make that clear to any novice entering whatever domain. Pluralism (or >>> parallax) of languages is one mitigation tactic. But another common one is >>> basic error-checking, the social process of saying out loud your >>> construction and listening as others criticize, deconstruct, or outright >>> ridicule it. Spend too much time stewing in your own juices and your >>> constructs become private. Spend too much time socializing with those who >>> agree and your constructs become groupthink. Nick likes to say he's >>> grateful for anyone who reads his writing. But the actual good faith action >>> is to criticize it. Reading it is like nodding politely with the occasional >>> "ah", "yes", "uh-huh" while someone tells you their boring story. >>> Engagement is the real objective. Reading is a mere means to that end. And >>> disagreement is demonstrative engagement. >>> >>> But [dis]agreement isn't well-covered by "contrarian", "oppositional", >>> or "adversarial". Dualism is just one form of foundationalism. Monism < >>> dualism < trialism < quadrialism < ?. 4 forces? 17 objects? 3 types of >>> object? Who cares? Those particular numbers are schematic in the larger >>> discipline of disagreement. The foundation is important. But getting hung >>> up on the particular number/value misses the forest for the trees. Arguing >>> over the number of things in the foundation is akin to arguing about the >>> meanings of words. In the spirit of "not even wrong", it's not even >>> sophistry. >>> >>> On 5/16/22 14:41, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> > Glen writes: >>> > >>> > < Of course, we *could* be working our way into a fictitious corner. >>> (E.g. the just-so story of the wet monkey thing < >>> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/08/wet-monkey-theory/>, >>> where all the kids who believe in the ability of formalism(s) to capture >>> the world are simply thinking inside the box.) But what's the likelihood of >>> that? I claim vanishingly small. > >>> > >>> > Using the Standard Model, applied physicists and engineers build >>> careers and do useful work. Are they thinking in a box? Perhaps. But >>> there are also physicists who are obsessed with poking holes in it and >>> generalizing it. >>> >>> -- >>> Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>> bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. >> Center for Emergent Diplomacy >> emergentdiplomacy.org >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA >> >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA mobile: (303) 859-5609
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