Like --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, May 17, 2022, 2:44 PM Merle Lefkoff <[email protected]> wrote: > Western academics are mired in a culture of critique. It has severe > limitations. > > On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 8:55 AM glen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Right. This is why the wet monkey theory (along with many other false but >> useful for manipulation heuristics) fails to capture anything important >> about "groupthink". We can re-orient Dave's no-largest-model objection >> toward any just-so manipulative rhetoric. Of course the choice of language >> biases the description written in it! Sheesh. And, yes, it's important to >> make that clear to any novice entering whatever domain. Pluralism (or >> parallax) of languages is one mitigation tactic. But another common one is >> basic error-checking, the social process of saying out loud your >> construction and listening as others criticize, deconstruct, or outright >> ridicule it. Spend too much time stewing in your own juices and your >> constructs become private. Spend too much time socializing with those who >> agree and your constructs become groupthink. Nick likes to say he's >> grateful for anyone who reads his writing. But the actual good faith action >> is to criticize it. Reading it is like nodding politely with the occasional >> "ah", "yes", "uh-huh" while someone tells you their boring story. >> Engagement is the real objective. Reading is a mere means to that end. And >> disagreement is demonstrative engagement. >> >> But [dis]agreement isn't well-covered by "contrarian", "oppositional", or >> "adversarial". Dualism is just one form of foundationalism. Monism < >> dualism < trialism < quadrialism < ?. 4 forces? 17 objects? 3 types of >> object? Who cares? Those particular numbers are schematic in the larger >> discipline of disagreement. The foundation is important. But getting hung >> up on the particular number/value misses the forest for the trees. Arguing >> over the number of things in the foundation is akin to arguing about the >> meanings of words. In the spirit of "not even wrong", it's not even >> sophistry. >> >> On 5/16/22 14:41, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> > Glen writes: >> > >> > < Of course, we *could* be working our way into a fictitious corner. >> (E.g. the just-so story of the wet monkey thing < >> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/08/wet-monkey-theory/>, >> where all the kids who believe in the ability of formalism(s) to capture >> the world are simply thinking inside the box.) But what's the likelihood of >> that? I claim vanishingly small. > >> > >> > Using the Standard Model, applied physicists and engineers build >> careers and do useful work. Are they thinking in a box? Perhaps. But >> there are also physicists who are obsessed with poking holes in it and >> generalizing it. >> >> -- >> Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > > -- > Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. > Center for Emergent Diplomacy > emergentdiplomacy.org > Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA > > mobile: (303) 859-5609 > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
