Ha! No. But if I were to try to publish something showing that religiosity is Yet Another True Believer syndrome, similar to all the others, I would use the pseudonym Captain Obvious. 8^D What's more interesting are the techniques by which we can manipulate our beliefs.
The latest entry from the downward causation team is: The Scout Mindset https://bookshop.org/books/the-scout-mindset-why-some-people-see-things-clearly-and-others-don-t/9780735217553 I'm tempted, but have too much other stuff to read. It wouldn't work as well as an rigorous regimen of capsaicin, though. So your plan is better. On 10/14/21 10:09 AM, David Eric Smith wrote: > You are going to publish that first two paragraphs somewhere, right? > > I would not have guessed such a large fraction of people could be taken out > with so few words. > > I am now going to go place an order here, > https://themalamarket.com/ <https://themalamarket.com/> > for stuff I have had no access too, and am badly hoping their sources are > good. > > Eric > > >> On Oct 12, 2021, at 4:53 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com >> <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I feel that way about anyone who "stands in awe" of anything, actually. >> We're consistently bombarded with phrases like "the majesty of" this or that >> ... or this or that "takes my breath away" and whatnot. Maybe we could call >> such nonsense the Idioms of Awe. Religious belief is the favorite bogey of >> atheists. But we find it everywhere. Back in Portland, I abutted so many >> "foodies", it literally dis-gusted me. Food is fuel. That's it. No matter >> how much the True Believers proselytize the latest fad, that Awesome New >> Breakfast Place or whatever. It's just food. Please eat so we don't have to >> hear you talk anymore. >> >> We see it a lot in our obComplexity crowd. We see it in the Singularians. We >> see it in the formalists and even the Dionysians. Runners are especially >> bad, coonnssttantly yapping about their religion. But weightlifters are no >> better. Even the mobility bros seem to have drunk the Kool-Aid. Pretty much >> anywhere anyone can "get carried away" with something, you'll find the True >> Believers waiting in the wings to swoop in and brainwash you. >> >> At least the Rationalists have a method for mind-changing, unlike most True >> Believers. But rationality isn't *fascinating*. People need to be >> fascinated. My own pet theory is that our anatomy has been pressured toward >> fascination, a desire to concentrate, to focus for an extended time. The >> trick is to ask, given the target domain/problem/issue, how long do we need >> to focus on it? Perhaps some domains really do need multiple generations of >> concentrating individuals. Perhaps some domains only need a few people to >> focus on it for a year or so. >> >> In that context, those who are seemingly stuck in some gravity well of True >> Belief are more pitiful than repulsive. (Or maybe they're repulsive >> *because* they're so pitiable?) What we need is an education program that >> gives the pathetic True Believers some tools that help them climb out of >> their hole. But like the cops responding to a call from a homeless camp >> littered with human feces and used needles, educating the True Believers can >> be dangerous. The abyss stares back into you. >> >> On 10/11/21 12:38 PM, David Eric Smith wrote: >>> Yeah I don’t know. >>> >>> For some years I was working in ocean-floor engineering, and got a feel for >>> seawater. For all the devices you design, it is all-surrounding and >>> omnipresent. It relentlessly intrudes through any crack, seam, or pore, >>> and it corrodes whatever it touches. For whatever reason, this describes >>> the affect of my response to people’s religiosity. The more genuine and >>> sincere they are, the stronger my aversion to that in them. It’s not even >>> the same as being averse to the whole person. There are people of whom I >>> think the world, and to whom I am very attached, in whom I just have to >>> work around this one radioactive thing. n.b., however, that all such >>> people are related to me by birth. There don’t seem to be any ones I have >>> sought out as friends of whom that happens to be the case. Maybe, >>> borderline, one or two Jews, who seem to have a decorum and sense of proper >>> privacy (those particular people, I mean) for themselves and for others. >>> >>> There is another metaphor that also serves. I have a friend with fairly >>> bad arachnophobia. I was commenting that I didn’t know what that would >>> feel like, as spiders don’t particularly bother me, was for example ticks >>> do. She commented that it was funny, because her brother had said the same >>> thing, using the same examples. The reason, of course, is that most >>> spiders prefer to mind their own business. (Some Australian mouse spiders, >>> perhaps less so.) For ticks, their business is _you_. Likewise, there is >>> no box within which religiosity is content to stay. It’s business is >>> always _you_, so you can never turn your back on it in rest. >>> >>> In trying to form a clear view, for my own purposes, of why I respond this >>> way, in a quite different context earlier this week, I was thinking of >>> trying to explain to someone that I grew up with religious people on me >>> trying to force some kind of “religious conversion” and, in looking for a >>> metaphor, the one that came to me was “like cops on a black man”. And no >>> matter how submissive I am and how much I would like to be cooperative, I >>> so far have not found it in myself to want to go back into that. >>> >>> It surprises me that these studies don’t seem to address questions of >>> domination and constriction, and the degree to which being able to breathe >>> matters to one or another person. >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 2:07 PM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >>>> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Doesn't work for me. My parents are in a very liberal church and (I >>>> think) like it because it gives some structure and support in their >>>> community. My dad's (I think formative) education at a strong liberal >>>> arts college probably contributed to my tendency to deconstruct things. >>>> I'm not particularly annoyed with their semi-religious activities, but >>>> there were plenty of people in my high school that I found to be religious >>>> crazies who I almost felt obligated to abuse. That hardened my atheism, >>>> but really it was hard right away in my early teenage years. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> >>>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 9:43 AM >>>> To: FriAM <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> >>>> Subject: [FRIAM] [dis]integrated >>>> >>>> Study: Atheists are Made By Their Parents >>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fskepchick.org%2f2021%2f10%2fstudy-atheists-are-made-by-their-parents%2f&c=E,1,2G1IsnysW37qkXOrMoyLXGgacehySvzlBBD0wGXgUiHZFPFiq8oRkLu4J8VyPqz0vteY4F9ijy0I1jQMz57JJIg1WkOeQPeOqYDV9WgSFj4,&typo=1 >>>> >>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fskepchick.org%2f2021%2f10%2fstudy-atheists-are-made-by-their-parents%2f&c=E,1,2G1IsnysW37qkXOrMoyLXGgacehySvzlBBD0wGXgUiHZFPFiq8oRkLu4J8VyPqz0vteY4F9ijy0I1jQMz57JJIg1WkOeQPeOqYDV9WgSFj4,&typo=1> >>>> >>>> Much of the argument is about credible displays of faith and hypocrisy. I >>>> thought this might be interesting following on the epically bent thread on >>>> [in]consistency, as well as some old conversations about how well one can >>>> describe/explain some historical decision/branch-point in their own life. >>>> >>>> I land about where Rebecca does, I think. -- "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." ☤>$ uǝlƃ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
