You are going to publish that first two paragraphs somewhere, right? I would not have guessed such a large fraction of people could be taken out with so few words.
I am now going to go place an order here, https://themalamarket.com/ <https://themalamarket.com/> for stuff I have had no access too, and am badly hoping their sources are good. Eric > On Oct 12, 2021, at 4:53 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I feel that way about anyone who "stands in awe" of anything, actually. We're > consistently bombarded with phrases like "the majesty of" this or that ... or > this or that "takes my breath away" and whatnot. Maybe we could call such > nonsense the Idioms of Awe. Religious belief is the favorite bogey of > atheists. But we find it everywhere. Back in Portland, I abutted so many > "foodies", it literally dis-gusted me. Food is fuel. That's it. No matter how > much the True Believers proselytize the latest fad, that Awesome New > Breakfast Place or whatever. It's just food. Please eat so we don't have to > hear you talk anymore. > > We see it a lot in our obComplexity crowd. We see it in the Singularians. We > see it in the formalists and even the Dionysians. Runners are especially bad, > coonnssttantly yapping about their religion. But weightlifters are no better. > Even the mobility bros seem to have drunk the Kool-Aid. Pretty much anywhere > anyone can "get carried away" with something, you'll find the True Believers > waiting in the wings to swoop in and brainwash you. > > At least the Rationalists have a method for mind-changing, unlike most True > Believers. But rationality isn't *fascinating*. People need to be fascinated. > My own pet theory is that our anatomy has been pressured toward fascination, > a desire to concentrate, to focus for an extended time. The trick is to ask, > given the target domain/problem/issue, how long do we need to focus on it? > Perhaps some domains really do need multiple generations of concentrating > individuals. Perhaps some domains only need a few people to focus on it for a > year or so. > > In that context, those who are seemingly stuck in some gravity well of True > Belief are more pitiful than repulsive. (Or maybe they're repulsive *because* > they're so pitiable?) What we need is an education program that gives the > pathetic True Believers some tools that help them climb out of their hole. > But like the cops responding to a call from a homeless camp littered with > human feces and used needles, educating the True Believers can be dangerous. > The abyss stares back into you. > > On 10/11/21 12:38 PM, David Eric Smith wrote: >> Yeah I don’t know. >> >> For some years I was working in ocean-floor engineering, and got a feel for >> seawater. For all the devices you design, it is all-surrounding and >> omnipresent. It relentlessly intrudes through any crack, seam, or pore, and >> it corrodes whatever it touches. For whatever reason, this describes the >> affect of my response to people’s religiosity. The more genuine and sincere >> they are, the stronger my aversion to that in them. It’s not even the same >> as being averse to the whole person. There are people of whom I think the >> world, and to whom I am very attached, in whom I just have to work around >> this one radioactive thing. n.b., however, that all such people are related >> to me by birth. There don’t seem to be any ones I have sought out as >> friends of whom that happens to be the case. Maybe, borderline, one or two >> Jews, who seem to have a decorum and sense of proper privacy (those >> particular people, I mean) for themselves and for others. >> >> There is another metaphor that also serves. I have a friend with fairly bad >> arachnophobia. I was commenting that I didn’t know what that would feel >> like, as spiders don’t particularly bother me, was for example ticks do. >> She commented that it was funny, because her brother had said the same >> thing, using the same examples. The reason, of course, is that most spiders >> prefer to mind their own business. (Some Australian mouse spiders, perhaps >> less so.) For ticks, their business is _you_. Likewise, there is no box >> within which religiosity is content to stay. It’s business is always _you_, >> so you can never turn your back on it in rest. >> >> In trying to form a clear view, for my own purposes, of why I respond this >> way, in a quite different context earlier this week, I was thinking of >> trying to explain to someone that I grew up with religious people on me >> trying to force some kind of “religious conversion” and, in looking for a >> metaphor, the one that came to me was “like cops on a black man”. And no >> matter how submissive I am and how much I would like to be cooperative, I so >> far have not found it in myself to want to go back into that. >> >> It surprises me that these studies don’t seem to address questions of >> domination and constriction, and the degree to which being able to breathe >> matters to one or another person. >> >> Eric >> >> >> >>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 2:07 PM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: >>> >>> Doesn't work for me. My parents are in a very liberal church and (I >>> think) like it because it gives some structure and support in their >>> community. My dad's (I think formative) education at a strong liberal >>> arts college probably contributed to my tendency to deconstruct things. >>> I'm not particularly annoyed with their semi-religious activities, but >>> there were plenty of people in my high school that I found to be religious >>> crazies who I almost felt obligated to abuse. That hardened my atheism, >>> but really it was hard right away in my early teenage years. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 9:43 AM >>> To: FriAM <friam@redfish.com> >>> Subject: [FRIAM] [dis]integrated >>> >>> Study: Atheists are Made By Their Parents >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fskepchick.org%2f2021%2f10%2fstudy-atheists-are-made-by-their-parents%2f&c=E,1,2G1IsnysW37qkXOrMoyLXGgacehySvzlBBD0wGXgUiHZFPFiq8oRkLu4J8VyPqz0vteY4F9ijy0I1jQMz57JJIg1WkOeQPeOqYDV9WgSFj4,&typo=1 >>> >>> Much of the argument is about credible displays of faith and hypocrisy. I >>> thought this might be interesting following on the epically bent thread on >>> [in]consistency, as well as some old conversations about how well one can >>> describe/explain some historical decision/branch-point in their own life. >>> >>> I land about where Rebecca does, I think. > > -- > "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie." > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_Fg5-wDYvKPoR8LggF6nutj5FbPI40UKJZSaJWWGjDQ7kqCvVJrCanNkmecmpCDWl720BmkkKxMOtfTV0WzDU_C5c1w1-awri55oQbp9tW1p92g,&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,aruHTGwS8G5AYuP9W9bLLBuZCl7B0_oOhfetE9LolL8wg9AleJLut2_9HnDQ10TUxnokO11Nfs7F6IiFHLeJdUcQrXXbQ6a7Ez1XAVbRc3wc5s9tmPNsWEKvVK8,&typo=1 > archives: > 5/2017 thru present > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,HCtP8WGnxKJW2cWTlTCBJbrm3wIeQ46-2JQRD7mBU81JDjqYcjaApR443VU3yNotsjAu7UJANu98Jv-TVZRA4z53lZ0-a2NMeDaTqhRffG08jQ,,&typo=1 > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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