I still don't know how you bring "basis spaces" into the discussion. It seems a
bit math-istic ("mathy")? However, if we argue directly about Hume's Law, that
does seem a bit mathy. The essence is that, in axiomatic deduction, you can't
validly derive sentences about values from sentences about the world. In
rejecting Hume's Law, we could simply reject the idea that axiomatic deduction
is faithful to real-world reasoning. (Perhaps part of why we need "natural
deduction" with introduction and elimination rules?)
But I wouldn't even go that mathy. We can allow Hume's Law to stand (and
require values introduction) but still talk about the mechanisms by which
values are lined up outside of inference. In other words, regardless of the
logic, the way values are aligned is with shared behavior ... mimicry. The
child learns to fear snakes because the mother fears snakes ⇒ shared value "you
ought to be afraid of snakes". And that's regardless of whether snakes are
dangerous or not, in keeping with Hume.
The "antifa affiliated" person who shot Tiny and Reinoehl are/were (slightly?)
misaligned with Antifa values. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if
other "antifa affiliated" actually turned him in. Such actions produce an
alignment of values. But the Proud Boys who assaulted Alissa were expressing
values very well aligned with the rest of the Proud Boys. You can hear it in
the clip: https://twitter.com/mxtaliajane/status/1434307985359114245 with "get
her", "fucking bitch", maniacal laughter, and "fuck antifa".
I could easily be wrong, of course. There's a strain of antifa who do intend to
commit violence. But they aren't as prominent in the ranks of Antifa as those
Proud Boys (like Tiny) who take pride in their commission of violence.
On 9/25/21 11:10 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> I maybe understand Glen's use of several terms more better now.
>
> I heard "value alignment" to refer to the general alignment between
> basis spaces of roughly self-aligned groups and other similar (but
> different) groups. I think I hear now that Glen was giving the PB
> crowd credit for having a coherent presentation with others while acting
> in public. I don't know what their private discussions/meetings look
> like, they may be near anarchy, but by the time they are on the street
> the present as a coherent, disciplined group.
>
>
>> Yes, this seems really important to me:
>>
>>> That "antifa affiliated" guy who shot Tiny is probably susceptible to peer
>>> pressure to *stop* carrying his gun to town, much like the Proud Boys coach
>>> their participants not to start fights and always cooperate with the cops.
>>> The more organized Antifa groups, like Rose City *do* coach their
>>> participants more than the less organized groups do. But the difference in
>>> both value alignment and tactics is obvious. If you're like my colleague,
>>> you'll claim this is a "distinction without a difference". But the
>>> difference is palpable if you're actually present.
>> Living sometimes in Atlanta, where the past of a civil rights movement that
>> was purpose-driven, sophisticated, strategic, and disciplined has been kept
>> alive a bit more than other places, I watch historical footage from the 60s,
>> of strings of people singing quietly and clapping in time various religious
>> songs while being herded into police vans, and I am awestruck at the dignity
>> and the self-control. If the current movements could get to that, at the
>> scale of the many-more people that they include today, we could solve a lot
>> of these problems.
>>
--
"Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
☤>$ uǝlƃ
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