Last colonoscopy I was thoroughly anesthetized but totally conscious. In recovery room, doctor explaining he had removed three minor polyps and I interrupted to say I thought I counted four. Shocked look on his part then told me the fourth was more like a skin tag. The anesthesia did prevent feeling, just not consciousness.
Dave west On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, at 8:35 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > No. But people who are under light anesthesia such as during a colonoscopy > sometimes talk. I don't think they remember that. > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:32 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: >> Oh, yes. We agree that I was unconscious. And if you had been there, you >> would have experienced my unconsciousness. But did I? I think a person who >> adopts your position has to say, “No.”____ >> __ __ >> Nicholas S. Thompson____ >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology____ >> Clark University____ >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/____ >> __ __ >> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank >> Wimberly >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 27, 2019 12:16 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow____ >> __ __ >> Yes, you were unconscious. As you know, I had that experience a few days >> ago.____ >> __ __ >> Frank____ >> ----------------------------------- >> Frank Wimberly >> >> My memoir: >> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly >> >> My scientific publications: >> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 >> >> Phone (505) 670-9918____ >> __ __ >> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:13 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> >> wrote:____ >>> Hi Frank, ____ >>> ____ >>> The problem is that one has immediately to ask, what is the contrast class >>> of experiencing consciousness? Experiencing non-consciousness? I think for >>> your line of thinking, where consciousness is direct, that’s an oxymoron. >>> For my line of thinking, when I woke up from my surgery and 24 hours had >>> passed, I had a powerful experience of my non-consciousness. ____ >>> ____ >>> Nick ____ >>> ____ >>> Nicholas S. Thompson____ >>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology____ >>> Clark University____ >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/____ >>> ____ >>> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank >>> Wimberly >>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 27, 2019 11:33 AM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow____ >>> ____ >>> Jon,____ >>> ____ >>> How about "experiences consciousness" in place of has consciousness.____ >>> ____ >>> Frsnk____ >>> ____ >>> ----------------------------------- >>> Frank Wimberly >>> >>> My memoir: >>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly >>> >>> My scientific publications: >>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 >>> >>> Phone (505) 670-9918____ >>> ____ >>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 11:03 AM Jon Zingale <jonzing...@gmail.com> wrote:____ >>>> Nick,____ >>>> ____ >>>> I love that the title of this thread is 'A question for tomorrow'.____ >>>> My position continues to be that the label `conscious` is meaningful,____ >>>> though along with you, I am not sure what language to use around it.____ >>>> For instance, can something *have* consciousness? That said, a____ >>>> conservative scoping of the phenomena I would wish to describe____ >>>> with *consciousness language* begins with granting consciousness____ >>>> to more than 7 billion things on this planet alone. Presently, for >>>> those____ >>>> that agree thus far, it appears that the only way to synthesize new >>>> things____ >>>> with consciousness is to have sex (up to some crude equivalence).____ >>>> This constraint seems an unreasonable limitation and so the problem____ >>>> of synthesizing consciousness strikes me as reasonably near, ie.____ >>>> `a question for tomorrow` and not some distant future.____ >>>> ____ >>>> You begin by asking about the Turing machine, an abstraction which____ >>>> summarizes what we can say about processing information. Here,____ >>>> I am going to extend Lee's comment and ask that we consider____ >>>> particular implementations or better particular embodiments.____ >>>> ____ >>>> Hopefully said without too much hubris, given enough time and____ >>>> memory, I can compute anything that a Turing machine can compute.____ >>>> The games `Magic the Gathering` and `Mine Craft` are Turing____ >>>> complete. I would suspect that under some characterization, the____ >>>> Mississippi river is Turing complete. It would be a real challenge____ >>>> for me state what abstractions like `Mine Craft` experience, but____ >>>> sometimes I can speak to my own experience. Oscar Hammerstein____ >>>> mused about what Old Man River knows.____ >>>> ____ >>>> Naively, it seems to me that some kind of information processing,____ >>>> though not sufficient, is necessary for experience and for a >>>> foundations____ >>>> for consciousness. Whether the information processor needs to be____ >>>> Turing complete is not immediately obvious to me, perhaps a finite-____ >>>> state machine will do. Still, I do not think that a complete description >>>> of____ >>>> consciousness (or whatever it means to experience) can exist without____ >>>> speaking to how it is that a thing comes to sense its world.____ >>>> ____ >>>> For instance, in the heyday of analogue synthesizers, musicians____ >>>> would slog these machines from city to city, altitude to altitude,____ >>>> desert to rain-forested coast and these machines would notoriously____ >>>> respond in kind. Their finicky capacitors would experience the____ >>>> change and changes in micro-farads would ensue. What does an____ >>>> analogue synthesizer know?____ >>>> ____ >>>> Cheers,____ >>>> Jonathan Zingale____ >>>> ____ >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove____ >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove____ >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
