No. But people who are under light anesthesia such as during a colonoscopy sometimes talk. I don't think they remember that.
----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:32 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Oh, yes. We agree that I was unconscious. And if you had been there, you > would have experienced my unconsciousness. But did I? I think a person > who adopts your position has to say, “No.” > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank > Wimberly > *Sent:* Saturday, April 27, 2019 12:16 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow > > > > Yes, you were unconscious. As you know, I had that experience a few days > ago. > > > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:13 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > > > The problem is that one has immediately to ask, what is the contrast class > of experiencing consciousness? Experiencing non-consciousness? I think > for your line of thinking, where consciousness is direct, that’s an > oxymoron. For my line of thinking, when I woke up from my surgery and 24 > hours had passed, I had a powerful experience of my non-consciousness. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank > Wimberly > *Sent:* Saturday, April 27, 2019 11:33 AM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A Question For Tomorrow > > > > Jon, > > > > How about "experiences consciousness" in place of has consciousness. > > > > Frsnk > > > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 11:03 AM Jon Zingale <jonzing...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Nick, > > > > I love that the title of this thread is 'A question for tomorrow'. > > My position continues to be that the label `conscious` is meaningful, > > though along with you, I am not sure what language to use around it. > > For instance, can something *have* consciousness? That said, a > > conservative scoping of the phenomena I would wish to describe > > with *consciousness language* begins with granting consciousness > > to more than 7 billion things on this planet alone. Presently, for those > > that agree thus far, it appears that the only way to synthesize new things > > with consciousness is to have sex (up to some crude equivalence). > > This constraint seems an unreasonable limitation and so the problem > > of synthesizing consciousness strikes me as reasonably near, ie. > > `a question for tomorrow` and not some distant future. > > > > You begin by asking about the Turing machine, an abstraction which > > summarizes what we can say about processing information. Here, > > I am going to extend Lee's comment and ask that we consider > > particular implementations or better particular embodiments. > > > > Hopefully said without too much hubris, given enough time and > > memory, I can compute anything that a Turing machine can compute. > > The games `Magic the Gathering` and `Mine Craft` are Turing > > complete. I would suspect that under some characterization, the > > Mississippi river is Turing complete. It would be a real challenge > > for me state what abstractions like `Mine Craft` experience, but > > sometimes I can speak to my own experience. Oscar Hammerstein > > mused about what Old Man River knows. > > > > Naively, it seems to me that some kind of information processing, > > though not sufficient, is necessary for experience and for a foundations > > for consciousness. Whether the information processor needs to be > > Turing complete is not immediately obvious to me, perhaps a finite- > > state machine will do. Still, I do not think that a complete description of > > consciousness (or whatever it means to experience) can exist without > > speaking to how it is that a thing comes to sense its world. > > > > For instance, in the heyday of analogue synthesizers, musicians > > would slog these machines from city to city, altitude to altitude, > > desert to rain-forested coast and these machines would notoriously > > respond in kind. Their finicky capacitors would experience the > > change and changes in micro-farads would ensue. What does an > > analogue synthesizer know? > > > > Cheers, > > Jonathan Zingale > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
