There is no such thing as race.
(At least anymore, not since the Neanderthals died out, and maybe not even then, if they could beget fertile offspring from matings with modern man, something we do not know.) There are ethnicities. Some ethnic markers are physiological (result of population inbreeding - originally enforced by geography, later by culture) but that fact does not establish "race" as a legitimate categorization criteria for humans. At most it would justify something analogous to breed. "Racism" is either an extreme form of ethnocentrism or a disguised form of specie-ism. Ethnocentrism is not unique - pretty much every ethnic group believes themselves to be "special," "better," "right," etc. vis-a-vis every other ethnic group. And xenophobia seems to have very deep genetic roots. Extreme forms of ethnocentrism can express themselves by advocating genocide (which despite the root, is not always based on physiological or genetic markers, e.g. Semite versus Semite). Specie-ism arises when you deny that some ethnicity (and historically women) are human - they are not of our species. Long before the US was founded, European conquerors denied human status to various conquered peoples - they were literally considered to nothing more than a human-like specie of animal. Pre-Linnean taxonomies are pretty informative on this point. Europeans, interestingly enough, redefined the concept of slavery by making it a relationship between "man and animal" instead of "man and man" as most other cultures thought of it. Slavery could be justified if sub-Saharan Africans were not people, but not otherwise. Virulent ethnocentrism seems to arise mostly as a function of numbers. When an ethnic group becomes sufficiently large in relationship to the dominant ethnic group, the latter gets hostile. In France ethnic tensions are focused on Arabs and not Blacks because the former constitute a large percentage of the population in France while blacks are still a significant minority. In England, south Asians are targets of ethnocentrists far more than Blacks - again because of the relative numbers. In Germany it is the "Turks." European disgruntlement with Obama - to the extent that it may exist - is grounded far more in a fear of cultural change (he is a Democrat and a Liberal after all) and is articulated by reference to skin color only because he exhibits no other obvious ethnic markers. davew On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:20:53 -0700, "Owen Densmore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Aren't these a bit different than conversations about race? > > In all the cases below, there were wars involved, and the conquerers > did not trouble themselves about conversations about race. > > -- Owen > > > On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote: > > > And the Moors. Don't forget the Moors. > > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Robert Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >wrote: > > > >> And the Vikings. Mustn't forget the Vikings -- Robert > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Robert Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >wrote: > >> > >>> IMHO, the notion that europeans are "relative newcomers to the > >>> conversation about race" is just plain silly. The UK has been > >>> colonized by > >>> the Romans, the Jutes, the Angles, the Saxons and the French. > >>> We've been > >>> having conversations about race for a *very* long time. > >>> > >>> Robert > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Owen Densmore > >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >>> > >>>> Just to let Doug know the US is not the only bastion of idiots: > >>>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96949439 > >>>> Bigotry, apparently, is not uncommon in Europe. > >>>> > >>>> I was surprised by Julian Bond's statement. He's both insightful > >>>> and > >>>> knowledgeable. > >>>> "The big difference here is that the United States has been > >>>> thinking > >>>> about and dealing with race since we were founded. These > >>>> countries in Europe > >>>> are relative newcomers to the conversation about race. They are > >>>> much less > >>>> familiar with confronting their own bigotry." Bond adds, "I have > >>>> always > >>>> thought that European countries are more bigoted than the U.S." > >>>> > >>>> I recall considering leaving the US after Bush was elected. I > >>>> thought > >>>> about the problems I'd seen in Italy and elsewhere, and decided > >>>> that there > >>>> just might be as many problems outside the Bubba infested US as in. > >>>> > >>>> I think of Europe as being more sophisticated, certainly in > >>>> lifestyle. > >>>> But then my sampling is biased. But if I think of my friends > >>>> here, I see > >>>> the same sophistication. Hard for me to say if Bond has it right. > >>>> > >>>> I'd be interested in our European Friamers observations. > >>>> > >>>> -- Owen > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ============================================================ > >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > >>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ============================================================ > >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Doug Roberts, RTI International > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 505-455-7333 - Office > > 505-670-8195 - Cell > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
