On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 5:34:17 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 4:48:51 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 5:01:41 AM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 7:50:07 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 5:08:57 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Gravitons do not escape from a BH, any more than can light. However, >>>>> from the perspective of an outside observer all matter than went into a >>>>> BH >>>>> is on the surface above the event horizon, called the stretched horizon. >>>>> >>>>> LC >>>>> >>>> >>>> Gravitons might not exist (and hence quantum gravity can't exist) But >>>> whatever the case, how can BH's interact gravitationally with objects >>>> beyond its event horizon? You say this doesn't happen. I don't understand >>>> your argument. AG >>>> >>> >> That you are saying this illustrates you do not understand general >> relativity. >> >> >>> >>> I may have identified the thousand pound gorilla in the room; the >>> hypothetical force carrying particle of the quantum gravitating field, the >>> graviton, which for BH's doesn't exert any force! AG >>> >> >> I have no idea why you are saying this. Gravitation is not a force in the >> usual sense and so the graviton does not produce a force in the standard >> meaning. For the weak field limit the nonlinear terms are negligable and a >> gravitational wave is linear. This is easily quantized. In fact it is >> similar to the Hanbury-Brown and Twiss theory of the diphoton. It is when >> the field becomes strong that general relativity becomes nonlinear and runs >> into trouble with quantum mechanics. >> >> LC >> > > I assumed a quantum field theory of gravity must have a particle > associated with it, and that this particle is called the graviton. Gravity > is a fictitious force. So what would the role of the graviton be, if not to > produce some force? If you detect gravitational waves, don't they consist > of gravitons if a quantum theory of gravity exists, analogous to photons in > EM waves? AG >
Before you can present yourself as deeply knowledgeable of GR, you should be able to give a coherent account how presumably *isolated* bodies such as BH's, can gravitationally interact with what's exterior to them. If gravitons can't do that in the context of a quantum theory of gravity, what can? AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/929d2ebf-088f-41ee-a202-a98485ecab24o%40googlegroups.com.
