On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 5:08:57 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > Gravitons do not escape from a BH, any more than can light. However, from > the perspective of an outside observer all matter than went into a BH is on > the surface above the event horizon, called the stretched horizon. > > LC >
Gravitons might not exist (and hence quantum gravity can't exist) But whatever the case, how can BH's interact gravitationally with objects beyond its event horizon? You say this doesn't happen. I don't understand your argument. AG > > > On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:08:11 AM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: > >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 10:59:54 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:45:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 2:25:39 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 9:43:11 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 5:55:52 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:34:00 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 5:19:30 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> About the EP; I merely stated that it demonstrates that >>>>>>>>> acceleration is locally indistinguishable from gravity, and then I >>>>>>>>> stated >>>>>>>>> what "locally" means. This is what Wiki and other sources say. Yet >>>>>>>>> you say >>>>>>>>> I am confused. How so? About masses of BH's, I watch documentaries >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> feature astrophysicists offering their opinions, and they >>>>>>>>> *uniformly* claim that BH's have mass. How could it be otherwise >>>>>>>>> if they're remnants of massive collapsed stars? Not one makes Brent's >>>>>>>>> claim, that they're just geometric manifestations. AG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Black hole mass is a pure spacetime physics. There is no material >>>>>>>> stuff anyone can get their hands on. With the tortoise coordinate the >>>>>>>> distant observer might say the matter-fields that made of a black hole >>>>>>>> exist, but if one tried to reach them they always recede away. Black >>>>>>>> holes >>>>>>>> do not have mass in a standard sense, though they have an ADM mass >>>>>>>> defined >>>>>>>> by the curvature of spacetime. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Generally, what resides inside a BH interacts gravitationally with >>>>>>> what's exterior and is the remnant of a Type 1A supernova. It's >>>>>>> unreachable, but has some correspondence with normal mass, which is why >>>>>>> its >>>>>>> mass can be estimated by its exterior effects, say for the one residing >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> the core of the Milky Way. I don't know how their masses are estimated >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> they are cores of distant galaxies. AG >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The interior does not interact with the exterior. The event horizon >>>>>> prevents that. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then how can a BH interact gravitationally with objects external to >>>>> the event horizon, or do you deny that? AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> The black hole does not interact with material outside, the material >>>> outside interacts with the black hole. A black hole is a causality sink; >>>> causal propagation is into the black hole. Only stochastic quantum events >>>> propagate out. >>>> >>>> LC >>>> >>> >>> I am not sure I understand or agree. Space-time is strongly curved near >>> a BH. Are you claiming this curvature is not caused by the BH? In any >>> event, doesn't this put a nail in the coffin of quantum gravity? IIUC, the >>> force carrying particle in a quantum gravity theory is the graviton. If >>> nothing can get out of a BH, this would apply to the graviton. Seems like a >>> problem for any quantum gravity theory. AG >>> >> >> Let me put the question another way; if gravitons exist, could they >> escape a BH? If not, does this adversely effect the existence of a quantum >> theory of gravity? TIA, AG >> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From the perspective of anyone in the exterior the interior of a >>>>>> black hole is nothing more than a theoretical abstraction. It only >>>>>> exists >>>>>> as a counter factual situation, where instead of remaining outside an >>>>>> observer enters the BH/ >>>>>> >>>>>> LC >>>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c2c84f30-8a84-4903-9172-930c3313474eo%40googlegroups.com.
