On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:45:25 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 2:25:39 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 9:43:11 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 5:55:52 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 4:34:00 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 6:30:46 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 5:19:30 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> About the EP; I merely stated that it demonstrates that acceleration >>>>>> is locally indistinguishable from gravity, and then I stated what >>>>>> "locally" >>>>>> means. This is what Wiki and other sources say. Yet you say I am >>>>>> confused. >>>>>> How so? About masses of BH's, I watch documentaries which feature >>>>>> astrophysicists offering their opinions, and they *uniformly* claim >>>>>> that BH's have mass. How could it be otherwise if they're remnants of >>>>>> massive collapsed stars? Not one makes Brent's claim, that they're just >>>>>> geometric manifestations. AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Black hole mass is a pure spacetime physics. There is no material >>>>> stuff anyone can get their hands on. With the tortoise coordinate the >>>>> distant observer might say the matter-fields that made of a black hole >>>>> exist, but if one tried to reach them they always recede away. Black >>>>> holes >>>>> do not have mass in a standard sense, though they have an ADM mass >>>>> defined >>>>> by the curvature of spacetime. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Generally, what resides inside a BH interacts gravitationally with >>>> what's exterior and is the remnant of a Type 1A supernova. It's >>>> unreachable, but has some correspondence with normal mass, which is why >>>> its >>>> mass can be estimated by its exterior effects, say for the one residing at >>>> the core of the Milky Way. I don't know how their masses are estimated >>>> when >>>> they are cores of distant galaxies. AG >>>> >>> >>> The interior does not interact with the exterior. The event horizon >>> prevents that. >>> >> >> Then how can a BH interact gravitationally with objects external to the >> event horizon, or do you deny that? AG >> > > The black hole does not interact with material outside, the material > outside interacts with the black hole. A black hole is a causality sink; > causal propagation is into the black hole. Only stochastic quantum events > propagate out. > > LC >
I am not sure I understand or agree. Space-time is strongly curved near a BH. Are you claiming this curvature is not caused by the BH? In any event, doesn't this put a nail in the coffin of quantum gravity? IIUC, the force carrying particle in a quantum gravity theory is the graviton. If nothing can get out of a BH, this would apply to the graviton. Seems like a problem for any quantum gravity theory. AG > > >> >> >>> From the perspective of anyone in the exterior the interior of a black >>> hole is nothing more than a theoretical abstraction. It only exists as a >>> counter factual situation, where instead of remaining outside an observer >>> enters the BH/ >>> >>> LC >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/16e2d1fb-6cb0-4b6e-a24b-8de6580dd183o%40googlegroups.com.
