Only by a select few and I don’t understand it either
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On Tuesday, May 16, 2023, 1:41 PM, Willie via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
On 5/16/23 12:53, Josh Landess wrote:
> It looks like you have quite a bit of first-hand knowledge in this
> area. What speeds do you get on your older free supercharging (the
> older models that have the free supercharging for the life of the
> vehicle).
My 13S85 now does not charge above about 85kw. That came about after
Tesla "repaired" the original battery which had resulted in a
stranding. Though I've complained several times, I've received no
explanation. I suspect that they are limiting liability for future
battery replacements.
Even with about the same mileage, my 18M3 still hits 250kw on those
250kw chargers. That vintage car probably has batteries that will take
the higher charge rate. AND they pre-heat when they know they are
heading to SuperCharger. That pre-heat thing is surprisingly effective
in maximizing charge rates. The 18M3 can hit 1000mph because they get
more miles per kwh.
Older free SuperCharging cars are less desirable because newer hardware
has quite a few advantages. I have had the 13S85 for sale for a long
while at a premium price; it has not sold for my asking price (I value
the SuperCharging). The 13S85 does not even have navigation. Of
course, no AP/FSD. No pre-heating. Now, only the very newest cars with
"hardware 4" are likely to make good FSD cars. Though my 18M3
("hardware 3") is doing VERY well with FSD software.
>
> With respect to the $2k offer that you mention, that is interesting,
> that they had that. My questions include
> - how much would a 10 or 20 year old model s be worth in the
> marketplace, if it is well-maintained (such as with updated upholstery
> when needed), if it has free transferable supercharging for the life
> of the vehicle, and if the supercharger speeds and batteries are
> updated and legit? $30k? $60k? More? Or perhaps not much more
> than a comparable vehicle lacking the free transferable
> life-of-vehicle supercharging. (keeping in mind that what we are
> talking about here is road-tripping as much as one wishes for one's
> entire life, in a sports sort-of-luxury vehicle without paying a dime
> for electricity other than non-road-trips, or elected L2 charging such
> as at hotels).
I don't think it is cost effective to replace a battery when it starts
losing significant range. It is not clear to me what a new battery
might do in an older car. Or, if newer batteries can even be installed
in older cars. I've seen customer paid battery replacements priced
about $15k. Long ago, in order to alleviate fear of reduced capacity,
Tesla offered to sell cars with an extra battery for additional cost of
$10k. The customer was to decide when (or if) the replacement battery
was to be installed. I do not know anyone who took advantage of that
offer.
> - if the vehicle at some point in the future starts to reflect a
> higher marketplace valuation, how does one reasonably insure it? i.e.:
> at present, if one just buys normal insurance, I'm not sure a value is
> put on the presence of free transferable life-of-vehicle supercharging.
I think transferable free SuperCharging clearly has SOME premium value.
I am unable to quantify that premium. I nearly sold 13S85 a couple of
times to people who clearly placed some value on it. At least one of
those sales was lost to someone else who offered similar car at a lower
price.
> - how much is this valuation impaired if we know that the average
> speeds over the course of a 20% to 80% charge are held to x (such as
> 45 kW)? (and side-question, at what point would enough lawyers and
> drivers sue Tesla and possibly win for failure to deliver
> "supercharging" as it is commonly understood? 40 kW? 30 kW? Less?)
I don't personally drive the 13S85 but feel like I could live with
reduced SuperCharging power rather than attempt to sue Tesla over the
issue. If the limit were down to 40kw, I would be far more
assertive/aggressive. That car's maximum observed charge power was not
much over 100kw, certainly below 120kw. Early in it's life,
SuperChargers were 90kw. After a few years, 120kw came along. Then,
150kw. Now, 250kw. Think all SuperChargers are now either 150
or250kw. Disregarding "Urban SuperChargers".
In Texas, I've seen SuperChargers going from none to five. At five, we
were an island; we could easily travel to all the more highly populated
parts of the state. Now, we have hundreds of SuperChargers and all
parts of the state are reachable. Though some places are a minor
challenge. I have been able to easily get to Big Bend even though the
nearest SuperCharger is in Ft Stockton which is perhaps 75 miles out
side the park boundaries.
Right now, I'm planning a trip to Alaska via the Alcan Highway. I was in
the area before Covid but turned around 150-200 miles north of the
northern most SuperCharger in Edmonton. Most RV parks in Yukon do not
have "50 amp" service and charging on "30 amp" outlets is limited to
about 10-15 mph. Now, there are some CCS/J1772 opportunities up there.
I don't know that you have noticed, but there is quite a bit of Tesla
negativism" here on EVDL. I fail to understand it.
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