Good points John. On Mon, Mar 6, 2023, 7:58 AM John Woodgate <[email protected]> wrote:
> * This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: [email protected] > <[email protected]> * > ------------------------------ > > There are two good points about 610000-4-2:the test results are repeatable > and products that pass the tests rarely suffer from ESD failures in the > field. But there are, even so, unresolved issues and doubts about the > relations between the tests and actual ESD events. Because the present > standard 'works', strong evidence would be required to support a proposal > for change, and that is not forthcoming. > > ====================================================================================== > Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only > www.woodjohn.uk > <http://www.woodjohn.uk> > Rayleigh, Essex UK > > I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. Xunzi > (340 - 245 BC) > > > On 2023-03-06 14:48, Chas Grasso wrote: > > Don't forget the seminal research done by WMKing on this topic. He was I > believe the first to measure the fast response of an ESD event through a > metal intervening object. Also, it is understood that the ESD test was a > consensus output in an attempt to provide repeatability within test houses. > King and Hish also produced an ESD generator that accurately replicated the > research. > > The current ESD test is a committee consensus output which tried very hard > to produce a test that could be consistent and repeatable, while at > the same time be as close as possible to the actual event. > > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2023, 1:42 AM John Woodgate <[email protected]> wrote: > >> * This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: >> [email protected] <[email protected]> * >> ------------------------------ >> >> Yes, 61000-4-2- is not very good, but while you are reluctant to share >> your knowledge with the committee, it is unlikely that anything will happen. >> >> ====================================================================================== >> Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only >> www.woodjohn.uk >> <http://www.woodjohn.uk> >> Rayleigh, Essex UK >> >> I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. >> Xunzi (340 - 245 BC) >> >> >> On 2023-03-06 04:14, doug emcesd.com >> <http://emcesd.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have a few thoughts I would like to share with you on ESD that have >> comes out of my private research into the field in recent years. >> >> 1. A 2kV air discharge can be much more likely to cause equipment >> malfunction than any other discharge of any voltage. >> 2. There is no natural ESD event comparable to a 15-20+ kV contact >> discharge so why test for it? That is designing for something that is >> extremely unlikely at best. >> 3. The IEC61000-4-2 does not very well model real ESD events at all. >> One example, my hand metal discharge at 4 kV results a current spike at >> the >> start of the discharge that is more than twice as high as the standard >> specifies! This is very repeatable. >> >> >> The above is just a sample of the research I have generated over the >> years. Seems like IEC 61000-4-2 needs an urgent overhaul as I believe >> engineers get a false sense of security that passing the test means >> reliable field performance, not even close! >> >> >> >> >> Doug Smith >> Sent from my iPhone >> IPhone: 408-858-4528 >> Office: 702-570-6108 >> Email: [email protected] >> Website: http://dsmith.org >> <http://dsmith.org> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >> [email protected]> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <[email protected]> >> David Heald <[email protected]> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >> <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> >> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >> [email protected]> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <[email protected]> >> David Heald <[email protected]> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >> <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> >> > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 > <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]> _________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
