Hi Dave, I started the thread, and I agree it has run its course. Respectfully, I feel many of the suggestions had merit. I learned a lot and would like to thank everyone who added to it. I'd also like to congratulate those who have successfully convinced others to join our ranks, regardless of method.
Of all the ideas, the one that appeals to me the most is Going Forth into the world, publicly, where passersby can ask what's going on, maybe tune a radio around and listen to a DX station, or just have a donut and shoot the breeze with our friendly comrades. I've done this many times at parks and campgrounds. Technical demos, premeditated or not, tend to attract technically inclined people who inevitably ask questions. I've had another idea which is to cross-pollinate non-ham groups that nonetheless share some of our values. Example: give a talk on ham radio at a hiking/backpacking club meeting. I'd encourage everyone to take whatever positive they gleaned from this discussion and maybe, in the future, report back. 73, Wayne N6KR On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 7:15 PM David Gilbert via Elecraft < [email protected]> wrote: > > You almost exactly verified the conclusions for you I previously > listed. You said they didn't but then without realizing it you > literally reiterated them ... just with more words to disguise them. > I.e., ham radio already covers all the bases that any prospective ham > might be interested in, people that aren't interested in what ham radio > might offer can't be persuaded that it does, and the only way to retain > folks that profess an interest is to nurture them. > > Nothing different there. > > I'm sure most list subscribers are bored to tears by this discussion by > now, but I should point out that Wayne (or Eric, I don't remember which > for certain) was the one who started the topic ... and nobody has > actually come up with any suggestions that make a difference or are any > different than what has already been tried without significant success > in the past. Nobody has ideas for actual change that would have a > significant impact, nor any desire to implement them. > > I'm just tilting at windmills here. > > Dave AB7E > > > > On 9/3/2025 5:39 PM, Rick NK7I wrote: > > No those are not my conclusions. And it’s because I CHOOSE to use a > > positive viewpoint. I’m not sucking on unripe grapes, wailing and > > gnashing teeth. > > > > To your questions: > > 1). There is not much to add, since ham radio tends to cover most > > sciences; physics, atmospherics, solar, geography and social studies > > (what we called it last century) and languages (and these days, add > > environmental awareness and ecology). Focus on specific topics > > changes over the years, some growth, some decline; but with a broader > > understanding over time. All inclusive means ALL inclusive; ham radio > > is already there at some level. > > > > 2). Those who are not interested in garnering new information; new > > friends (some I’ve known for decades and NEVER met elsewhere but > > radio); not interested in learning, growing and becoming more; won’t. > > You can’t reach those who won’t be reachable. But you TRY. > > > > The rest are potential hams. Find out what motivates them (talk WITH > > them, not to) and show them that ham radio can be part of that topic > > and how. INSPIRE them! Make it exciting and fun. > > > > 3). People tend to gather in groups, it is their nature (there are > > exceptions) because they want to be part of something and seek > > commonality. That gives us all social activities, like clubs. > > > > If a club does not seek AND MENTOR prospective new hams; continually > > then they are a club that is dying. That mentoring should never end > > (I still have some from 50 years ago and sometimes I mentor them right > > back; because our rabbit trails are different but intertwine, all > > still ham radio). > > > > Invitations to meetings and newsletters offered to all. (The local > > club here, doesn’t do any of that; wasn’t interested in learning; so I > > left. The DAY I left, my email access was pulled, because I was no > > longer a member. How welcoming/inviting is that? It’s no wonder > > they’re a dying club.) > > > > That is most often called, a relationship. One of the core tenets of > > ham radio; to promote good will, which infers a relationship; parties > > exchanging interests and viewpoints; pulling together, not pushing (or > > scaring) away. > > > > As people move (and my old groups have scattered across the > > continent); ham radio (and sometimes a cell phone) being one of the > > common threads of the relationship; helps to keep in contact, able to > > share, mentor and compare what the current interest (rabbit trail) is. > > Some of those relationships span decades (some 5 decades, so far). > > > > In that simple maintenance and sharing, one could find an interest > > they never saw or thought of; still via ham radio. > > > > Rabbit trails: Over the years mine have included repeater operations > > (because I first heard hams chatting on 2M, which made me want to be a > > part of it); remote linking, then HF (which showed me just how wide > > the world is), then DXing on one branch, while another was packet > > radio, which lead to networking (AX.25 appeared), which got me going > > eventually into IRLP, DMR as well; and even more topics. > > > > When I took up traveling, ham radio was with me the entire time, > > because I would seek places that no cell phone would tread (like much > > of Western Canada, into YT, NWT and the greater portion of Alaska; > > twice). I did not want to be on a roadside broken down or with a > > medical emergency in those places, so ham radio (besides allowing > > folks at home to know where I was) was the lifeline. > > > > Ham radio (relationships) was the trigger to spark an interest in > > computers, which later helped in my career and schooling. Which got > > me interested in different data formats (all of which, went on the air). > > > > There are enough aspects (rabbit trails) that even a schizophrenic > > with multiple personalities could not ever find them all. Ham radio > > is already there. > > > > Back to the original point: Being out in _public_ demonstrating what > > is possible (Field Day, Charity events, fires and other emergency > > events come to mind); being AVAILABLE if someone has a question (and > > reaching out to those who look curious) will draw some folks in. Make > > SURE that you connect the event over social media and the news media > > when something significant happens. Just don’t geek out! > > > > Then once they show interest, MENTOR them (GENTLY at first, they’re > > tender), through the testing process (not memorized answers, but WHY > > the answer is correct, give them a foundation). As you do that, you > > learn about that person, what makes them tick, then you show them that > > ham radio is already there. They will learn about you as well and > > then it is a friendship (who CAN’T use another friend?). > > > > Then they will USE that license to explore that interest. Go with > > them as much as you can. > > > > Or you can congratulate them for passing and walk away; killing any > > chance of a new friendship and mentorship. In weeks or months, > > they’ll have moved on to another hobby. And some will anyway, > > thinking that the time invested, was a waste. Attrition. > > > > Friendships are NOT passive, they take care and feeding over time. > > They are ACTIVE (and the great ones, can pick up right where they > > left off, months or years later). > > > > Your call, because each one of us has to make the same choice; which > > determines the growth or failure of the hobby. > > > > Participate publicly (be available) to share and expand the hobby or > > sit in the shack and whine on the 75M old folks net about your > > ailments and never leave the shack. > > > > EACH of us, has to make the same choice (every day). > > > > 73, > > Rick nk7i > > > >> On Sep 3, 2025, at 4:02 PM, David Gilbert <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> So your conclusions are: > >> > >> 1. There isn't any opportunity to change the hobby ... it already > >> covers everything that you think fits under the appropriate umbrella > >> of "radio". > >> > >> 2. Non-hams are either going to decide they are interested or they > >> aren't, and the great majority won't be. What they see is what they > get. > >> > >> 3. The only way to grow activity is to convince the folks who > >> initially cared enough to get licensed that they should stay active. > >> > >> Did I get that right? I'm not seeing the upside in that perspective. > >> > >> Dave AB7E > >> > >> > >> > >> On 9/3/2025 1:46 PM, Rick NK7I wrote: > >>> Within. > >>> > >>> 73, > >>> Rick nk7i > >>> > >>>> On Sep 3, 2025, at 12:54 PM, David Gilbert via Elecraft > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Two questions and a comment: > >>>> > >>>> 1. "Don't ignore the shut in or (very) tiny budget crowds ... etc" > >>>> Which of those things you mention aren't more easily possible via > >>>> voice, texting, or forum participation on their cellphones? > >>> How much does a cell phone cost, compared to a (used) HT? Cell > >>> fails here at least annually (the fiber line gets cut, no feed). > >>> How many times can you talk with a group at the same moment, on a > >>> cell phone? These days, you can message on either HT or cell. > >>> > >>>> 2. "I've tried to generate interest ... etc" Did you ever > >>>> actually ask anyone what changes/additions would make ham radio > >>>> more interesting to them? > >>> Of course. Other than checking into the weekly net on the local > >>> repeater, they knew that they knew nothing and didn’t care to learn > >>> (even basic simple antennas that would improve their stations to get > >>> into the repeater). It took MONTHS of effort, all to zero avail. I > >>> also raised simple dipoles and help sets up stations; which simply > >>> got ignored when the shine wore off. > >>> > >>>> 3. NOBODY ever wants to discuss what might be added to ham radio > >>>> to make it more appealing to outsiders. Not a single suggestion > >>>> from anybody here has popped up in this lengthy thread ... which > >>>> likely hardly anyone even wants to follow anymore. The few > >>>> comments that have been posted mostly say that everything is just > >>>> fine the way it is. > >>> It is NOT fine, the numbers don’t tell the entire story since most > >>> licensees, don’t operate or stop after a few months or years. > >>> Mostly because there is no follow through after the test; > >>> individuals and clubs just walk away (HUGE mistake). Without > >>> watering, the root dies. > >>> > >>> Followthrough (I am a VE, I offer myself there) is critical. > >>> > >>> I tell them that I started out with borrowed receivers and a 5th > >>> hand transmitter on HF, with mostly useless wire antennas (I was > >>> ignorant too) then worked my way up. It does NOT have to cost the > >>> tens of thousands of my present station; I kept interest and built > >>> it up over decades. Ease THAT fear ASAP with a noob; money is TIGHT > >>> for most. > >>> > >>> Adding features? What does NOT appear under the umbrella of ham > >>> radio? Music, games and broadcast; EVERY other means of > >>> communication are already being used, in ham radio. > >>> > >>> While it CAN be as mostly technical as the noob can manage (and > >>> rabbit holes to fall into); there are plenty of ‘appliance > >>> operators’ too (just listen to the bands, to spend 20 minutes and a > >>> LOT of words, to say nothing; then it’s the other folks turns). Ask > >>> them about technical details of their station; brand and model is > >>> about all they know (can we say ‘stagnation’?). > >>> > >>> Growth can occur, IF they find the right niche and want to keep > >>> learning (THAT is an ugly word to some when simplistic ignorance is > >>> so appealing). > >>> > >>> The only two topics to not discuss (by agreement, not law): > >>> Politics and religion (both can be easily devisive in moments; not > >>> helpful in building new bonds of friendship). That leaves BROAD > >>> range of topics, technical or not; dog raising, baking or > >>> multi-element arrays. > >>> > >>> And THAT means, being an Elmer (mentor) to the noob and meeting them > >>> at their level while sharing the excitement of where you are in > >>> radio. I’ve turned no one away and try to meet their level of > >>> understanding. Give them the answers they seek, with a little more > >>> to spark interest; let them into what you’re doing too. > >>> > >>> It is about relationships, nothing more. > >>> > >>> That mirror looks good here. > >>> > >>>> We don't have to look far to find the source of the problem. A > >>>> mirror would do the job. > >>>> > >>>> Dave AB7E > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[email protected] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [email protected] -- Elecraft, Inc. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [email protected]
