I'd like to also add that until we create a much larger demand for renewable and green products we will only continue the unsustainable current trends. Therefore buy the current products while demanding improvements in technologies to recycle, reduce, and reuse in general.
Respectfully, Bradley W. Miller PhD Candidate Dept. of Forestry Virginia Tech <http://www.filebox.vt.edu/users/bmiller1/Bmiller.htm> Personal Webpage <http://www.filebox.vt.edu/users/bmiller1/Bmiller_files/Page423.htm> Research Webpage Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. Mark Twain -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Amartya Saha Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] McDonough - I don't think so Hi Jane, Robert's point was about the resources taken to manufacture a new car, hybrid or whatever.. all the metal, glass, plastics, chemicals etc, mining those, energy costs to manufacture them, pollution costs to the environment and so on, When one discards an old car and goes for a hybrid, one has to add all the above costs to the benefits of lower emissions per mile. Its not just C emissions that accompany the manufacture of a car, there is a bunch of other externalities if one were to track. Of course, given the necessity of driving for most (In the US), one can't run an old car forever, unless one is a mechanic, understanding and taking care of every strut, wire and screw. Maybe the breakeven in terms of environmental costs of continuing with the old car vs. a hybrid may happen in 10 years, I do not know, and its very difficult to put $ costs anyway to damage to habitat done by resource extraction (mining,drilling etc) and pollution. Thats the emerging field of natural resource economics ( thats been emerging for at least trhe past 10 years as i'm aware of).. cheers amartya Jane Shevtsov wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Can you please cite some numbers to back up your claim? 30 MPG is > pretty good (although old cars tend to be worse from the point of view > of toxic emissions), but every examination I've seen of the question > of whether the improved efficiency of a hybrid offsets the C emissions > due to its manufacture has concluded that the hybrid is better than > keeping the old car. (I guess that might not be true if you do very > little driving.) > > Jane > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Robert Fireovid > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >> McDonough is like the Toyota ads that would seduce me into trading in >> my 1994, 30 mpg Prism for a brand new Prius. Considering the >> quantities of non-renewable natural resources that are extracted, >> transported and transformed into a new car (and the amount of Nature >> that is destroyed in its wake), I would have to own the Prius for >> over 50 years to "pay back" that resource debt and generate any net >> improvement in my environmental footprint. >> >> Young people love (and have taught me the power of) You-Tube. Have >> them watch this short spot, "The Story of Stuff," to see what I >> mean... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqZMTY4V7Ts >> >> - Bob Fireovid >> >> >> >>> W. McDonough and M. Braungart's Cradle to Cradle: Remaking the way >>> we >>> >> make >> >>> things (2002) might be interesting for your summer reading list. >>> They suggest a proactive approach to environmental issues that is >>> refreshing, maybe even hopeful. >>> > > > >
