I respectfully disagree on the need to split two sets of people. We need to exercise patience regardless of our backgrounds (I am personally very empathetic of everyone who has fought this battle and has lost or has been hurt), I understand is not easy, but we are also not alone.
Teaching by preaching is what will earn us respect, credibility and authority to speak of this topic. So, I would like to invite us to consider creating a safe welcoming space for all, even those who seek to trouble us. This means keep our convos in just one list for now and focus on publishing the wiki page. In any case, my preference is not to split but will support Patricia et Al in what they decide. P.s. I also wanna say that I recognize that in the future we might need to open diff comm channels, to deal with other sorts of matters, I just don't want to do this for a reason that might go against what we want to defend. *From: *Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> *Date: *Mon, May 13, 2019, 2:45 PM *To: * <diversity@apache.org> I think there is already evidence that we need separate lists. We have > two populations that need to be kept apart: > > 1. People who are so sick of answering the same questions time after > time that they are unlikely to exercise patience, tact, and diplomacy > when faced with them yet again on their working mailing list. > > 2. People who think their questions about D&I are new and would like > them answered. > > We really need to get Group 2 into a mailing list that Group 1 can > ignore. People like me who are relatively new to this can handle Group 2 > more gently, which may help the politics in the long term. > > Here are a couple of alternative names: > > diversity-doing (we are supposed to be a do-ocracy, so doing something > about diversity should be OK) > > diversity-working-group (specifically for the committee and those of us > who are trying to help them by doing some of the work). > > > > On 5/13/2019 11:53 AM, Ross Gardler wrote: > > -0 on separate lists until we need them rather than think we will. > > > > -1 on diveristy-action as a name, as we are seeing people worry that D&I > means creating rules and regulations by which others must conform. This > creates tension and defensive behavior. The word "action" will reinforce > this assumption. > > > > Ross > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> > > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 11:45 AM > > To: diversity@apache.org > > Subject: Re: FAQ and education mailing list > > > > I am going to start the FAQ discussion, using [FAQ] as tag, without > > waiting for a new list, but will move it if and when there is a more > > appropriate mailing list. > > > > Meanwhile, I have a radical alternative suggestion on mailing list > > names. No matter what we do, I am afraid you will get the frequent > > questions on diversity@. As an alternative split, create a list > > diversity-action@ for those who have already decided action is > > appropriate, and want to get on with doing it. Anything related to > > diversity would be on-topic on diversity@. Only threads about > > diversity-related actions would be on-topic on diversity-action@. > > > > > > On 5/13/2019 11:31 AM, Naomi Slater wrote: > >> I don't think that a [FAQ] tag solves the problem we're trying to > address > >> here. which, as far as I understand it, is that this list is likely to > see > >> a lot of threads that may ultimately hamper the work we're trying > >> to accomplish > >> > >> in a sense, we *want* to bifurcate the community. i.e., we want to be > able > >> to say "this isn't an appropriate thread for this list, please take it > to > >> diversity-meta@" and be quite firm about shunting that stuff off > >> > >> we need to prioritize maintaining an (emotionally) safe and stress-free > >> environment on this list (diversity@). and I can't over-emphasize how > much > >> we put that at risk if we allow meta discussion to take place here > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 19:50, Ross Gardler > >> <ross.gard...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote: > >> > >>> +1 to not another list, use subject tag "[FAQ]" > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacre...@apache.org> > >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 10:30 AM > >>> To: diversity@apache.org > >>> Subject: Re: FAQ and education mailing list > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 5:19 PM Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> > wrote: > >>>> ...I don't want my FAQ-collection effort to get in the way of getting > >>>> things done on diversity@. For that reason, I suggest creation of a > >>>> mailing list diversity_education@a.o... > >>> > >>> I disagree with Yet Another List as it tends to fragment a community, > >>> and this one is not too large. > >>> > >>> We can use [FAQ] in email subject lines to differentiate while keeping > >>> others aware of what's going on. > >>> > >>> There are more words about this in Stefano Mazzocchi's "we love busy > >>> lists" message that I relayed at > >>> > >>> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgrep.codeconsult.ch%2F2011%2F12%2F06%2Fstefanos-mazzocchis-busy-list-pattern%2F&data=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C041cc0d04b454c62dd3308d6d7d32df4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1&sdata=WpF07eePGlezaw3ytwkx03e%2FoLZ%2FRT%2BFl4Hp4gmKoWI%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > >>> -Bertrand > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > >
