On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:52 AM, janI <j...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > >>> On 11 June 2013 16:01, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > We used to have the old Distribution project that for the most > part has > >>> > > been revised to a very minimal presence... > >>> > > http://www.openoffice.org/distribution/ > >>> > > > >>> > > Recently, there seems to be a renewed interest in posting > information > >>> > > about new and former Apache OpenOffice distribution outlets -- > notably > >>> > > CD/DVD sets. And old page containing CD/DVD vendors still exists > but > >>> is > >>> > > not linked in any place. Since /distribution/cdrom/sellers.html is > >>> > > redirected because of changes to this area, you can see and > download > >>> the > >>> > > old page from svn: > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/distribution/cdrom/sellers.html?view=log > >>> > > > >>> > > Are we interested in reviving this listing, or something similar > to it? > >>> > > Pros...Cons, etc. > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > Looking at queries on the mailing list, forums, etc., we don't get a > >>> > lot of people asking for CDs. Maybe 15 or 20 in the last year, yes? > >>> > Compare that to over 50 million downloads. So I don't think this is > >>> > critical, but no objections to having such a list. > >>> > > >>> > On the other hand, unless the page is very prominently linked, like > >>> > from our home page, I doubt the casual user will find it. And if > >>> > someone wants to buy a CD it is easy to just type "buy openoffice cd" > >>> > into a search engine and see places where you can buy a CD, including > >>> > Amazon, etc. In some sense Google and Bing are better at helping > >>> > users find information than we are, even when that information is on > >>> > our own website! > >>> > > >>> > >>> +1 to make a prominent third party site in different languages, linked > >>> directly from our top pages, that way google spider will catch the > third > >>> party product hotter than otherwise. > >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > > A new listing would not have to be by region as this old one is. > Given > >>> > > update issues in the past, if we provided a new listing page, we > would > >>> > > likely need disclaimers regarding: accuracy, support, relation to > >>> Apache > >>> > > OpenOffice(this project), etc. > >>> > > > >>> > > As with all our web pages, we could accept additions though the CMS > >>> from > >>> > > non-commtters. > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > Levels in which we might do things: > >>> > > >>> > Level 1 -- Do nothing but watch for abuses. If someone wants to sell > >>> > a CD, then they are free to do it, per the license. They can > >>> > advertise on eBay, their website, etc., but they have no permission > to > >>> > use the trademarks. Nothing special on our website. > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > Level 2 -- We allow a listing on our website (or wiki) of those who > >>> > offer CDs. But we make no attempt to verify anything. It is all > >>> > "caveat emptor". We put in disclaimers on the page so users know > that > >>> > we have not vetted anything. > >>> > > >>> > Level 3 -- We review requests for listing and approve them only if > >>> > they meet our qualifications, which might include proper use of > >>> > trademarks, a link back to our website, etc. This is similar to what > >>> > we did with consultants. > >>> > > >>> > Level 4 -- Like Level 3, but for those distributors who meet our > >>> > qualifications we offer a special logo they can use, something like a > >>> > "Community Distributor". > >>> > > >>> > Personally, I think Level 1 is fine. But Level 2 doesn't really help > >>> > our users. We'd be offering placement on our website to vendors > >>> > without really getting anything in return. So I think we want > >>> > something like Level 3 or Level 4, where we promote the public good > by > >>> > reviewing and approving the listings that meeting reasonable > criteria. > >>> > > >>> I think we should aim at 3), and while we are getting a new logo > consider > >>> 4), which I think is the best. > >>> > >>> rgds > >>> jan I. > >>> > >> > >> I know we don't get MANY requests for CDs but we seem to get enough from > >> frustrated users to warrant attention to this in my opinion. And, it > would > >> encourage entities that might want to engage in this form of assistance. > >> > >> Level 2 is certainly an easy implementation but I don't know how well > this > >> would play out. > >> > >> I think we should make Level 3 a goal, as we did with the consultants. I > >> would be happy to start on this path if we have enough agreement here. > >> Right now, I don't think we would have many entries, but having this > would > >> help. It would probably not be feasible to review all contents but > >> certainly trademark issues. > >> > > > > In particular it is not really feasible for us to review the actual > > CD, which is probably the most important thing. > > > > However, instead of a review we could simply ask distributors to agree > > to self-certify to some best practices, and get them to publicly agree > > to these guidelines. That way we can put a disclaimer like: > > > > "Apache OpenOffice is always available for download free from our > > website (link), but as a service to users who may require a physical > > CD we provide this of independent vendors who offer Apache OpenOffice > > on CD. These vendors are not endorsed by or affiliated with the > > Apache OpenOffice project, but each vendor has agreed to follow our > > Best Practices for OpenOffice CD Vendors (link)." > > > > Just thinking ahead a little. If there is consensus that we want > something like "Level 3", then next steps might be: > > 1) Draft a "Best Practices for OpenOffice CD Vendors" on the wiki > > 2) Draft an example of a few listings to show how they would look > > 3) Blog post, a "Call for Comments" on this program. It would be > good to get feedback from CD distributors as well as users, to confirm > the approach. > > 4) Go live. > > This should not take too long I can help with some of this. The goal > should be (I'll suggest) to have this ready for AOO 4.0 release, so CD > vendors can start distributing shortly after release. In other words, > we don't want a backlog of vendors asking for listing at the time we > release. > > -Rob > > These actions would be very helpful for the project and any vendor wishing to receive a listing, and reassuring for people who would be interested in having the CDs. Yes, having this new area ready a bit before the 4.0 would be a good move as well. Any help appreciated of course. Well maybe give this discussion until the end of Friday, and we can move on from here. > > Regards, > > > > -Rob > > > > > >> I definitely like the idea of translations for the other language areas > -- > >> I would assume we would take entries from one area -- English -- but the > >> contents of the results page would be translated? Something to work on > down > >> the road. > >> > >> Level 4 is a great idea as well. > >> > >> > >> > >>> > > >>> > Criteria might include (and this has been discussed in some older > >>> threads): > >>> > > >>> > 1) Proper acknowledgements of trademarks > >>> > > >>> > 2) Link back to www.openoffice.org > >>> > > >>> > 3) Distributes the most-recent version of AOO (within some time > period > >>> > after a new release) > >>> > > >>> > 4) Makes it clear that any charge is for the media and convenience, > >>> > not for the underlying AOO software > >>> > > >>> > Stuff like that. This could be in the form of an agreement that the > >>> > distributor signs off on. > >>> > > >>> > Regards, > >>> > > >>> > -Rob > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > >>> > > -- > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > > MzK > >>> > > > >>> > > "You can't believe one thing and do another. > >>> > > What you believe and what you do are the same thing." > >>> > > -- Leonard Peltier > >>> > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> MzK > >> > >> "You can't believe one thing and do another. > >> What you believe and what you do are the same thing." > >> -- Leonard Peltier > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MzK "You can't believe one thing and do another. What you believe and what you do are the same thing." -- Leonard Peltier
