Hi Hadrian > So, from what I read in the thread above, I see you all being mostly in agreement, but are referring to different (and important) aspects.
Yes, we are. We could discuss this more on Thur. online meeting. Sheng Wu 吴晟 Twitter, wusheng1108 Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbar...@gmail.com> 于2020年2月26日周三 上午12:27写道： > Most of the disagreements on the ASF lists can be traced back to a > communication issue. I think I understand what Willem proposed and I agree > on the low bar aspect, but I think the way the term bar is used may create > unnecessary misunderstandings. > > This being an ASF local community, it must be guided by ASF standards > (let's not call them rules). This is in the interest of advancing the ASF > values we believe in and proved successful for over 2 decades. From this > point of view the people who are organizing the community must know what > they're are doing, Sheng Wu you are correct. There should be a way in which > the organizers (or members or whatever word we choose to describe that PMC > member like role) communicate with each other, build consensus and execute. > If necessary, they are smart and experienced enough to ask for advice from > an ASF officer or the board, whatever the case may be. > > On the other side, thinking about the intent behind the ACL Beijing, it is > not intended (I assume) as a private club, but a way to promote open source > and the ASF. From this point of view the community should be inclusive, > there should be a low bar to entry, there should be good and active > mentoring of new individuals (whatever we call them if not members) and > they should be encouraged, helped, guided, mentored to be successful with > open source, ASF projects and the ASF way in particular. Interested and > talented individuals will get the karma in ASF projects and will go as far > as they want, and will get a better understanding of what the ASF is about. > The 'status' in the ACL Beijing will come from their contributions to open > source projects, not the fact that they 'joined the club'. And to be clear, > contributions don't mean just code contributions. > > IMHO, it matters less if those who join are called members of the ALC, > what matters is what they do and how they are helped to become successful > and how they help others to become successful. Actually the term member is > a bit overloaded at the ASF as well. I remember many cases when newly voted > PMC members thought they are members of the foundation, and it took a bit > for them to understand the difference. > > So, from what I read in the thread above, I see you all being mostly in > agreement, but are referring to different (and important) aspects. > > Best of luck, > Hadrian > > > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:04 AM Sheng Wu <wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Willem >> >> I am pretty sure this should not be having a bar like a project official >> committer. But no bar? I don't think this is a reasonable idea. >> As ALC we will use the Apache branding and Apache ALC branding, I prefer >> there should be some guides, otherwise, how should we protect it? >> >> And more, how should we make sure, the member could talk about the >> culture of Apache basically correct(I wouldn 't say accurate, but at least, >> not misguide)? -- This question is suitable for JianSheng too. >> How about the next one asking joining the ALC, what should we do? If he >> is also not an Apache committer/PMC/member again >> >> Sheng Wu 吴晟 >> Twitter, wusheng1108 >> >> >> Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> 于2020年2月25日周二 下午5:18写道： >> >>> I don't think we need to setup a bar on the people who want to join the >>> ALC. >>> As we are short of hand to advocate the Apache way in China. I think >>> JianSheng can provide a great help for us. >>> ALC is not a Apache project, current we don't have the PMC or >>> Committers, but I think community PMC can give us some guide and >>> advices for it. >>> Current the member of ALC Beijing are the active committers of Apache >>> or other people who interesting about it. We may need to discuss a >>> way how to introduce new blood in a meritocracy way. >>> The main purpose of ALC is building a local community around ASF >>> projects, helping Apache projects cooperate with each other, and let >>> Chinese community to know better about Apache Software Foundation. >>> For the content we provide for the local audience should follow the >>> Apache Way and for the logo and branding related issues we also need >>> the approve from Apache Branding officer. >>> >>> Willem Jiang >>> >>> Twitter: willemjiang >>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:45 PM Sheng Wu <wu.sheng.841...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi Willem >>> > >>> > Is there any invitation rule(guide) about adding a new member? >>> > What is different between a member and not a member? >>> > >>> > To be clear, I am not objecting, I just don't get the context. >>> > In all other TLP project, member sometimes means a committer of ASF or >>> that project. Which is the bar(s) of an ALC member? Or even is there a bar >>> for this? >>> > The deep reason I asked about this, is from my understanding the ALC >>> member needs to follow the Apache way, keep the branding used in the right >>> way, and so on. >>> > >>> > To Jian Sheng >>> > Please don't feel I am not welcoming you to join or unfriendly. >>> Really, I am not stopping you. I know the contributions you made for the >>> Apache/Apache Way/Open source. >>> > I just want this community organized in the right and recommended way. >>> > >>> > Sheng Wu 吴晟 >>> > Twitter, wusheng1108 >>> > >>> > >>> > Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> 于2020年2月25日周二 下午4:38写道： >>> >> >>> >> FYI, I just updated the wiki page[1] and added JianSheng into the >>> member list. >>> >> Please let me know if you have any questions about it. >>> >> >>> >> BTW, please add your picture into the page if you have time :) >>> >> >>> >> [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ALC+Beijing >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Willem Jiang >>> >> >>> >> Twitter: willemjiang >>> >> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:20 PM Xiangdong Huang <saint...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > +1. >>> >> > Jianshen is very active for popularizing open source. >>> >> > >>> >> > jincheng sun <sunjincheng...@gmail.com>于2020年2月25日 周二下午12:30写道： >>> >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for your proposal Willem. I think we really need people who with >>> >> >> experience in Chinese communities to join us！ >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Best, >>> >> >> Jincheng >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 适兕 <lijiangshe...@gmail.com> 于2020年2月23日周日 上午11:42写道： >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Thanks Willem, >>> >> >> > It's honor , be happy to do something for ALC Beijing. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 11:23 AM Willem Jiang < >>> willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>> >> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> Hi, >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> I'd like to introduce Jianshen Li, he is the founder of a >>> Chinese blog >>> >> >> >> which introduce Open Source Way for nearly 3 years. >>> >> >> >> Even he is not a Apache Committer, he translate bunch of ASF >>> related >>> >> >> >> articles [1][2][3][4]into Chinese, I think it helps lot for >>> promote >>> >> >> >> ASF in Chinese community. >>> >> >> >> Now I'm working closely with JIanshen to write more articles >>> for the >>> >> >> >> newbie who want to join the Open Source in China. >>> >> >> >> I'd like to invite him as a member of ALC Beijing. >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Any throught？ >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> [1] >>> >> >> >> >>> http://opensourceway.community/posts/foundation_introduce/asf-founders-look-back-on-20-years/ >>> >> >> >> [2] >>> >> >> >> >>> http://opensourceway.community/posts/foundation_introduce/the_apache_way_to_sustainable_os/ >>> >> >> >> [3] >>> >> >> >> >>> http://opensourceway.community/posts/foundation_introduce/five-year-strategic-plan-for-the-asf-2018/ >>> >> >> >> [4] >>> >> >> >> >>> http://opensourceway.community/posts/foundation_introduce/how_apache_works/ >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Willem Jiang >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Twitter: willemjiang >>> >> >> >> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:57 AM 适兕 <lijiangshe...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > Hi, Swapnil and Willem , >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > I am very interested helping for ALC BeiJing, >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > + 1 from me. >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > As open source advocate , I am the founder of >>> opensourceway.community >>> >> >> >> , Dedicated to the exploration of ideas, knowledge and values >>> related to >>> >> >> >> open source. >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > Thanks. >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 8:04 PM Swapnil M Mane < >>> swapnilmm...@apache.org> >>> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Done Xiangdong, please check. >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >>> >> >> >> >> Swapnil M Mane, >>> >> >> >> >> www.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 5:14 PM Xiangdong Huang < >>> saint...@gmail.com> >>> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > Hi Swapnil, >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > I'd like to apply for the edit rights for the confluence. >>> >> >> >> >> > My Confluence id is hxd. >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > Many thanks. >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > Best, >>> >> >> >> >> > ----------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> >> > Xiangdong Huang >>> >> >> >> >> > School of Software, Tsinghua University >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > 黄向东 >>> >> >> >> >> > 清华大学 软件学院 >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > Swapnil M Mane <swapnilmm...@apache.org> 于2020年2月18日周二 >>> 下午6:59写道： >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > > Hello ALC Beijing team, >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > Hope you are doing well, it gives immense pleasure to us >>> to update >>> >> >> >> you >>> >> >> >> >> > > that the vote is passed by ComDev PMC to establish ALC >>> Beijing >>> >> >> >> Chapter >>> >> >> >> >> > > and Willem Jiang as ALC Beijing Chapter lead. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > Here are the placeholder pages created in ComDev space >>> >> >> >> >> > > https://s.apache.org/alc-beijing >>> >> >> >> >> > > https://s.apache.org/alc-beijing-events >>> >> >> >> >> > > https://s.apache.org/alc-beijing-reports >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > I have given edit rights on Confluence for ComDev wiki >>> to following >>> >> >> >> >> > > members (since I found their confluence IDs) >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- Willem Jiang >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- Jeff Zhang >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- Liang Zhang >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- Jincheng Sun >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- Sheng Wu >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- Juan Pan >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > Rest members, please feel free to mail on the dev list >>> to request >>> >> >> >> the >>> >> >> >> >> > > edit rights with your confluence ID. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > We would also like to connect you with Aditya Sharma. >>> >> >> >> >> > > Aditya is a very active member of ALC Indore Chapter and >>> will be >>> >> >> >> with >>> >> >> >> >> > > you for an initial few months to support and assist you >>> so that you >>> >> >> >> >> > > will be familiar with the processes followed by ALC >>> Chapter for its >>> >> >> >> >> > > execution ( https://s.apache.org/d4anc ). >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > Dear Willem and team, >>> >> >> >> >> > > We have the following roles and responsibilities as ALC >>> Chapter and >>> >> >> >> >> > > ALC Chapter lead: >>> >> >> >> >> > > [Online version of this is available at >>> >> >> >> >> > > https://s.apache.org/ALC-Chapter-Lead-RR ] >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > 1. Making sure the 'ALC Code of Conduct ( >>> >> >> >> >> > > https://s.apache.org/alc-code-of-conduct )' is followed >>> by the ALC >>> >> >> >> >> > > Chapter. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > 2. All the events organized by the ALC Chapter are >>> following the >>> >> >> >> >> > > Guidelines to organize ALC Event ( >>> s.apache.org/alc-guidelines ). >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > 3. Chapter lead will submit the status report ( >>> >> >> >> >> > > https://s.apache.org/alc-reports ) to ComDev ( >>> >> >> >> >> > > dev@community.apache.org ) in every *three months* >>> based on their >>> >> >> >> >> > > reporting cycle. >>> >> >> >> >> > > For ALC Beijing the reporting cycle is May, August, >>> November, >>> >> >> >> February. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > 4. Chapter Lead will be the point of contact for the >>> respective >>> >> >> >> ALC >>> >> >> >> >> > > Chapter. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > If you have any queries or questions, please feel free >>> to post on >>> >> >> >> dev list. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > All the very best team, and thank you for showing your >>> kind >>> >> >> >> interest >>> >> >> >> >> > > in this initiative. >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > Best regards, >>> >> >> >> >> > > Swapnil M Mane, >>> >> >> >> >> > > www.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:20 AM Swapnil M Mane < >>> >> >> >> swapnilmm...@apache.org> >>> >> >> >> >> > > wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > Hello Skylar and Juan, thank you for your interest. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > Skylar, please refer to my response inline. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 10:02 AM Skylar Deranick < >>> >> >> >> skysfr...@gmail.com> >>> >> >> >> >> > > wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > Sure I'll do it >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > Just for your information, as mentioned in one of my >>> recent mail >>> >> >> >> [1], >>> >> >> >> >> > > > Currently, the voting is underway in ComDev PMC to >>> establish ALC >>> >> >> >> Beijing. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > And it is the mandate of ComDev PMC to establish the >>> new ALCs, >>> >> >> >> >> > > > so we have to wait until we get the response from the >>> PMC. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > [1] https://s.apache.org/z8yo7 >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 8:30 PM Juan Pan < >>> panj...@apache.org> >>> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > +1 from me. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I am tracking this thread. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Hope see ACL Beijing setting up, i believe there >>> are much >>> >> >> >> more active >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > PMCs, committers and contributors in Beijing >>> waiting for >>> >> >> >> this good >>> >> >> >> >> > > news. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Best wishes >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Juan Pan (Trista) >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Senior DBA & PPMC of Apache >>> ShardingSphere(Incubating) >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > E-mail: panj...@apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > On 02/7/2020 13:50，Sheng Wu<wush...@apache.org> >>> wrote： >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Hi Willem >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I am interested in helping ALC Beijing. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Sorry I didn't respond earlier. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > +1 from me. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I am Apache SkyWalking VP, Incubator PMC, >>> >> >> >> ShardingSphere(incubating) >>> >> >> >> >> > > PPMC >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > and mentor of DolphinScheduler(incubating) & >>> >> >> >> ECharts(incubating). >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ALC Beijing is good news for SkyWalking, >>> ShardingSphere, and >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > DolphinScheduler, which has many initial PMC and >>> active >>> >> >> >> contributors >>> >> >> >> >> > > here. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Sheng Wu >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > On 2019/12/03 02:50:52, Willem Jiang < >>> ningji...@apache.org> >>> >> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Hi, >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I'm Apache member and there are bunch of Apache >>> project >>> >> >> >> developers in >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Beijing I know. ALC just give us a very good >>> excuse to hand >>> >> >> >> out and >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > hold meetup together. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Regards， >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > Willem >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>> dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: >>> >> >> >> dev-h...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>> dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: >>> >> >> >> dev-h...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >>> >> >> >> >> > > >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: >>> dev-h...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > -- >>> >> >> >> > 独立之思想，自由之精神。 >>> >> >> >> > --陈寅恪 >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > -- >>> >> >> > 独立之思想，自由之精神。 >>> >> >> > --陈寅恪 >>> >> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > ----------------------------------- >>> >> > Xiangdong Huang >>> >> > School of Software, Tsinghua University >>> >> > >>> >> > 黄向东 >>> >> > 清华大学 软件学院 >>> >>
