On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 02:18:08PM +0100, Michael Biebl wrote: > > For the record: If the recovery system does run systemd, you go > > journalctl -D /path/to/your/journal/copy. > > Small correction here: The recovery system needs to have systemd > *installed*, not running. All you need is the journalctl tool. > journalctl itself doesn't require systemd to be PID1 or a running > journald daemon.
Thanks. Unlike tools like xz, just installing systemd does have side-effects on the system. These are usually considered bugs and quickly ironed out, but I believe some are still present in the wheezy package and I am thus reluctant to install wheezy's systemd on a production system. This problem will solve itself over time. > With my rsyslog (and systemd maintainer) hat on, let me add a few > remarks here: > > We still do install rsyslog by default and will continue to do so for > the forseeable future (for reasons like the one you mentioned). > > So your text-based logs won't be gone with the switch to systemd. > Let me repeat that: Jessie will have text-based logs, nothing in that > regard changes. > Actually it does: systemd can feed additional information into syslog > (e.g. from daemons stdout/stderr), so you'll get a syslog with more > complete information when running under systemd. > > As for journald, we currently don't enable persistent logging in > journald (persistent logging can be done by creating a folder > /var/log/journal with the appropriate permissions). This argument is completely backwards. It sounds as if you were responding to a problem with .service files with "oh yeah, we still have this LSB support, you can just write an init script". Thing is, the number one reason for switching to systemd is *not* wanting to write init scripts. This argument is not as strong for the journal, because its presence improves regular syslog by containing more messages. By making this argument, you essentially negate all the other benefits of the journal (structure, sealing, indexing, ...). Rather than addressing the aspect I brought up, you evaded the discussion of the underlying problem. The other argument I saw in the discussion was "journalctl is just a tool like xz, go and install it". It's not. There is xz-utils on kfreebsd-amd64, but there is no systemd there (sorry for reiterating this one). And while xz is part of busybox, journalctl isn't! So my initramfs doesn't have journalctl, but it does have xz. This is a distinct disadvantage when using the journal. Possible solutions: * Add an initramfs hook to the systemd package, that installs journalctl into the initramfs. * Switch from initramfs-tools to a systemd-based initramfs such as dracut (already packaged, works). * Reimplement part of journalctl for busybox. Essentially I argue that the default initramfs should contain some form of journalctl in time for jessie or at least before fixing #717388. Would you mind a bug report for this? Helmut -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140218090310.gc5...@alf.mars
